History Main / GrayingMorality

3rd Nov '17 9:56:00 AM Tharkun140
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* In the ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' you are mostly either fighting unquestionably evil villains or being needlessly evil yourself and the Jedi are portrayed without much moral ambiguity to them. TheReveal blurs the line between good and evil a little bit, but aside from [[spoiler:your character having done a lot of bad things in the past and the Jedi Council pulling out a BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood on them]] things are still pretty clear. Then [[VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublicIITheSithLords the sequel]] comes and changes things ''[[DeconstructorFleet completely]]''
25th Oct '17 12:27:32 PM SAMAS
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* The enemies in the ''VideoGame/MetalSlug'' series have mostly been an array of faceless {{Mooks}} and Bosses to be shot at. However, ''[[VideoGame/MetalSlugDefense Metal Slug Attack]]'' has been steadily adding actual characters to the various enemy factions, and even several stories from their point of view.
9th Sep '17 12:54:19 AM Byzantine
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* ''Series/{{Highlander}}'' went through this direction over the course of the series. Duncan [=MacLeod=] starts the series with a pacifistic attitude and mostly avoids playing the Game (the constant battles and killing of fellow Immortals). The original villain of the series, Slan Quince, is a Head Hunter (a type of Immortal who devotes most of his life to hunting and killing), a ruthless killer, and has no redeeming qualities. Most of the villains in Season 1 are much darker than the protagonists, including DirtyCop Howard Crowley, mind control expert Kiem Sun, BitchInSheepsClothing Felicia Martins, [[AttemptedRape Would-be-rapist]] Caleb Cole, etc. Subsequent seasons started presenting villains with more sympathetic motivations, [[FreudianExcuse Freudian Excuses]], [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well Intentioned Extemists]], and Immortals with genuine mental problems who can not control themselves.

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* ''Series/{{Highlander}}'' went through this direction over the course of the series. Duncan [=MacLeod=] starts the series with a pacifistic attitude and mostly avoids avoided playing the Game (the constant battles and killing of fellow Immortals). The original villain of the series, Slan Quince, is a Head Hunter (a type of Immortal who devotes most of his life to hunting and killing), a ruthless killer, and has no redeeming qualities. Most of the villains in Season 1 are much darker than the protagonists, including DirtyCop Howard Crowley, mind control expert Kiem Sun, BitchInSheepsClothing Felicia Martins, [[AttemptedRape Would-be-rapist]] Caleb Cole, etc. Subsequent seasons started presenting villains with more sympathetic motivations, [[FreudianExcuse Freudian Excuses]], [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well Intentioned Extemists]], and Immortals with genuine mental problems who can not control themselves.
9th Sep '17 12:44:50 AM Byzantine
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*''Series/{{Highlander}}'' went through this direction over the course of the series. Duncan [=MacLeod=] starts the series with a pacifistic attitude and mostly avoids playing the Game (the constant battles and killing of fellow Immortals). The original villain of the series, Slan Quince, is a Head Hunter (a type of Immortal who devotes most of his life to hunting and killing), a ruthless killer, and has no redeeming qualities. Most of the villains in Season 1 are much darker than the protagonists, including DirtyCop Howard Crowley, mind control expert Kiem Sun, BitchInSheepsClothing Felicia Martins, [[AttemptedRape Would-be-rapist]] Caleb Cole, etc. Subsequent seasons started presenting villains with more sympathetic motivations, [[FreudianExcuse Freudian Excuses]], [[WellIntentionedExtremist Well Intentioned Extemists]], and Immortals with genuine mental problems who can not control themselves.
**Meanwhile the "heroes" went quite a bit darker. Duncan looses his hesitation to kill, holds centuries-long grudges, and at times plays JudgeJuryAndExecutioner. Flashbacks to his past reveal that he has committed his share of senseless murders, at times sentenced fellow Immortals to [[FateWorseThanDeath Fates Worse than Death]] (one was trapped on a desert island with no access to food or water, another was chained to the bottom of a river for decades, and a third spend most of the 20th century locked in an asylum), and has a criminal past. Duncan's student/[[LikeASonToMe Surrogate Son]] Richie Ryan went through his own Head Hunter phase, presented as a killing spree of random Immortals. Then he had to face the (immortal and mortal) loved ones of the people he killed. Duncan's new best friend Methos was early on established to have [[WouldHitAGirl no problem hurting or killing women]]. (He demonstrates by killing a female Immortal whose life was spared by Duncan and Richie). He explains that he was born long before the time of chivalry. He is eventually revealed to have spend centuries as a raider, pillager, slaver, and rapist. He claims he has outgrown this phase, but he seems like a KarmaHoudini. LovableRogue Amanda is early on established to have spend most of her life as a thief and entertainer, though she does not like hurting people. In later seasons, she is revealed to have once been part of an OutlawCouple which went on a multi-state crime spree in the 1920s United States. Also Amanda is depicted as more than a bit reckless and her actions tend to have unintended consequences. When she is not the one who gets hurt, it is the people she cares for who suffer. Even minor supporting characters got darker. Cassandra was introduced as an Immortal witch who protected Duncan's life when he was a boy in Scotland. She was reintroduced as a former slave and rape victim whose life is mostly driven by seeking revenge.
28th Aug '17 4:24:48 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''Series/GameOfThrones'' manages an [[InvertedTrope inversion]]. Like the books it is based on it generally started out as a GreyAndGreyMorality deconstruction of fantasy, showing that no character is really good or evil and war is a murky affair at best. With few exceptions there's not really any fighting for the greater good or justice, only dynastic interests. Over time it has become closer to BlackAndWhiteMorality with many characters experiencing changes to their personalities to make them more [[AdaptationalHeroism clearly heroic]] or [[AdaptationalVillainy villainous]], and the appearance of an AlwaysChaoticEvil faction that has been foreshadowed since the start of the show.
23rd Apr '17 2:56:46 PM nombretomado
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* Almost every game in the Franchise/TalesSeries does this, with the story starting out like a typical BlackAndWhiteMorality ClicheStorm before eventually revealing the villains have understandable motives and occasionally the heroes may not be entirely good.

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* Almost every game in the Franchise/TalesSeries ''VideoGame/TalesSeries'' does this, with the story starting out like a typical BlackAndWhiteMorality ClicheStorm before eventually revealing the villains have understandable motives and occasionally the heroes may not be entirely good.
28th Mar '17 5:21:37 AM Hylarn
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* ''Series/Supernatural'' had much more black and white moral system in the first, with the heroes hunting and killing monsters in order to preserve life. Then, the main characters started to fight demons, which required them to murder innocent human hosts, the supernatural creatures stopped always being evil due to their race, and they started to make deals with demons in order to survive. After a few series, the brothers wouldn't even bat an eye when forced to kill a room full of demons with human hosts, made moral decisions which trod the line between dangerously irresponsible and wilfully evil, and constantly traded away the safety amd wellbeing of huge numbers of people. At this point, it's hard to say whether or not the Winchesters still count as good or even chaotic neutral.

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* ''Series/Supernatural'' ''Series/{{Supernatural}}'' had much more black and white moral system in the first, with the heroes hunting and killing monsters in order to preserve life. Then, the main characters started to fight demons, which required them to murder innocent human hosts, the supernatural creatures stopped always being evil due to their race, and they started to make deals with demons in order to survive. After a few series, the brothers wouldn't even bat an eye when forced to kill a room full of demons with human hosts, made moral decisions which trod the line between dangerously irresponsible and wilfully evil, and constantly traded away the safety amd wellbeing of huge numbers of people. At this point, it's hard to say whether or not the Winchesters still count as good or even chaotic neutral.



* ''VideoGame/{{Touhou}}'' was never blatant good vs evil - everyone, main characters included, have always been huge jerks at best, and "villains" were more prone to PokeThePoodle - but at least starts with clear protagonist and antagonist lines, with {{youkai}} causing trouble for selfish reasons and the humans going out to beat them up until they stop. Then ContinuityCreep and GoingCosmic happen, delving deeply into the nature of the relationship between youkai and humans. This is most apparent in the ExpandedUniverse; ''[[Manga/TouhouIbarakasenWildAndHornedHermit Wild and Horned Hermit]]'' is mostly told from the perspective of youkai and greatly humanizes them (for lack of a better word), portraying them as well-meaning and friendly, but still with a nasty streak that could come out at any time. ''[[Manga/TouhouSuzunaanForbiddenScrollery Forbidden Scrollery]]'' meanwhile is mostly told from human perspectives and portrays youkai as corruptive and malign influences that need to be kept separate from humans at all times (for the benefit of ''both'' groups), but all the most brutal and callous acts in the manga are performed by humans. And ''[[UniverseCompendium Symposium of Post-mysticism]]'' is a debate between the various powers jockeying to control Gensokyo, about the future of the region and the nature of human/youkai relationships, [[BothSidesHaveAPoint all having excellent points]] even if they're all ultimately acting from self-interest.

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* ''VideoGame/{{Touhou}}'' was never blatant good vs evil - everyone, main characters included, have always been huge jerks at best, -- the protagonists weren't especially pleasant and "villains" were more prone the antagonists never seriously intended to PokeThePoodle - cause harm -- but at least starts with clear protagonist and antagonist lines, one side was clearly the good guys, with {{youkai}} causing trouble for selfish reasons and the humans going out to beat them up until they stop. Then ContinuityCreep and GoingCosmic happen, delving deeply into the nature of the relationship between youkai and humans. This is humans, and it becomes increasingly clear that morality isn't a particularly large factor in what's going on (or, rather, that what's moral depends on who you ask, and few people will give answers that seem normal to most apparent in the ExpandedUniverse; ''[[Manga/TouhouIbarakasenWildAndHornedHermit Wild and Horned Hermit]]'' is mostly told from the perspective of youkai and greatly humanizes them (for lack of a better word), portraying them as well-meaning and friendly, but still with a nasty streak that could come out at any time. ''[[Manga/TouhouSuzunaanForbiddenScrollery Forbidden Scrollery]]'' meanwhile is mostly told from human perspectives and portrays youkai as corruptive and malign influences that need to be kept separate from humans at all times (for the benefit of ''both'' groups), but all the most brutal and callous acts in the manga are performed by humans. And ''[[UniverseCompendium Symposium of Post-mysticism]]'' is a debate between the various powers jockeying to control Gensokyo, about the future of the region and the nature of human/youkai relationships, [[BothSidesHaveAPoint all having excellent points]] even if they're all ultimately acting from self-interest.audience).
27th Mar '17 12:07:34 AM MeepieV
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* ''Series/Supernatural'' had much more black and white moral system in the first, with the heroes hunting and killing monsters in order to preserve life. Then, the main characters started to fight demons, which required them to murder innocent human hosts, the supernatural creatures stopped always being evil due to their race, and they started to make deals with demons in order to survive. After a few series, the brothers wouldn't even bat an eye when forced to kill a room full of demons with human hosts, made moral decisions which trod the line between dangerously irresponsible and wilfully evil, and constantly traded away the safety amd wellbeing of huge numbers of people. At this point, it's hard to say whether or not the Winchesters still count as good or even chaotic neutral.
20th Feb '17 5:37:57 AM Mareon
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->''"Last night, the man who killed my brother showed more character than the woman in charge of protecting the world. Good and bad's not so clear to me."''
-->-- '''Diggle''', ''Series/{{Arrow}}''

17th Feb '17 10:03:27 AM KingZeal
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*** The Wardens' actions in ''Inquisition'' actually result in a BrokenPedestal moment for Blackwall, who idolized the Wardens and never knew how shady they could be. Indeed, one of the [[spoiler: clues that Blackwall is not really a Grey Warden is his obvious hero-worship of them, lauding their bravery and goodness]]. If the Player played ''Origins'', they know the Wardens are less [[IdealHero Ideal Heroes]] and more [[PragmaticHero Pragmatic]] or [[UnscrupulousHero Unscrupulous Heroes]].

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*** The Wardens' actions in ''Inquisition'' actually result in a BrokenPedestal moment for Blackwall, who idolized the Wardens and never knew how shady they could be. Indeed, one of the [[spoiler: clues that Blackwall is not really a Grey Warden is his obvious hero-worship of them, lauding their bravery and goodness]]. If the Player played ''Origins'', they know the Wardens are less [[IdealHero Ideal Heroes]] and more [[PragmaticHero Pragmatic]] or [[UnscrupulousHero Unscrupulous Heroes]]. It's also a RebuiltPedestal moment, as Blackwall feels the Wardens are still heroic and inspirational, but for different reasons than he believed.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.GrayingMorality