History Main / GoodRepublicEvilEmpire

14th Mar '17 1:24:30 AM Trying2CIt
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This trope originates in the wake of the success of anti-monarchical revolutions, UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution and UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution. The American Revolution is commonly invoked as an example of brave Americans fighting for democracy and freedom from the tyrannical British monarchy. [[note]]Although, ironically, the war was a {{subversion}} of this trope, seeing as both sides were democratic: Britain was a ''constitutional'' monarchy, remember. The Americans were also backed by the absolute monarch of France UsefulNotes/LouisXVI who would invite his own revolution in turn; ''which was inspired by the very revolution he'd supported''[[/note]] The French Revolution is also portrayed like this though with greater focus on fears of mob rule, with the revolutionaries more likely to be shown as {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s or HeWhoFightsMonsters. In either case, neither revolutions are shown in the context of its time and place, with attention to its complexity and multiple causes. So it directly feeds into this trope's binary opposition between a Republic that is Good and an Empire or Kingdom that is Bad. What both revolutions did achieve was that it was the first time it proved that a republic can govern and rule over a large area of land, taking apart what was formerly believed to be the main argument in favor of Kingdoms, that republics were good for city states but not for large areas.

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This trope originates in the wake of the success of anti-monarchical revolutions, UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution and UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution. The American Revolution is commonly invoked as an example of brave Americans fighting for democracy and freedom from the tyrannical British monarchy. [[note]]Although, ironically, the war was a {{subversion}} of this trope, seeing as both sides were democratic: Britain was a ''constitutional'' monarchy, remember. The Americans were also backed by the absolute monarch of France UsefulNotes/LouisXVI who would invite his own revolution in turn; ''which was inspired by the very revolution he'd supported''[[/note]] The French Revolution is also portrayed like this though with greater focus on fears of mob rule, with the revolutionaries more likely to be shown as {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s or HeWhoFightsMonsters. In either case, neither revolutions are revolution is shown in the context of its time and place, with attention to its complexity and multiple causes. So it directly feeds into this trope's binary opposition between a Republic that is Good and an Empire or Kingdom that is Bad. What both revolutions did achieve was that it was the first time it proved that a republic can govern and rule over a large area of land, taking apart what was formerly believed to be the main argument in favor of Kingdoms, that republics were good for city states but not for large areas.



** A republic with a king isn't such a strange idea, depending on how powerful the king is; a state with a figurehead monarch will tend to function as a republic in practice, but since the term "republic" tends to connote the absence of any kind of monarch it will rarely if ever be called that in RealLife.

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** A republic with a king isn't such a strange idea, depending on how powerful the king is; a state with a figurehead monarch will tend to function as a republic in practice, but since the term "republic" tends to connote the absence of any kind of monarch it will rarely rarely, if ever ever, be called that in RealLife.
27th Jan '17 7:37:36 AM LordInsane
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** While TheFederation is ostensibly a democracy, its member worlds have been shown to be somewhat mixed as to their form of government. An episode of [[StarTrekTheOriginalSeries the Original Series]] had a member world where the elites lived in a cloud city while the workers, who were little more than slaves due to the conditions of the mines, lived on the surface in caves.

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** While TheFederation is ostensibly a democracy, its member worlds have been shown to be somewhat mixed as to their form of government. An episode of [[StarTrekTheOriginalSeries [[Series/StarTrekTheOriginalSeries the Original Series]] had a member world where the elites lived in a cloud city while the workers, who were little more than slaves due to the conditions of the mines, lived on the surface in caves.caves (this ''was'' supposedly contrary to Federation membership requirements, however, but they still managed to keep it hidden for a long time).
** ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' reveals that one of the founding governments of the Federation was an Empire in name -- and the Andorians were not presented as any worse than the Vulcans, and definitely better than the lurking Romulan Star Empire or the looming Klingon Empire.
28th Dec '16 10:43:31 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''ShiningForceIII'' features the Republic of Aspinia (which has a ''king'') and the Empire of Destonia. Guess which one's evil!

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* ''ShiningForceIII'' ''VideoGame/ShiningForceIII'' features the Republic of Aspinia (which has a ''king'') and the Empire of Destonia. Guess which one's evil!



** It's actually averted in ''ShiningForceIII''. On disc I ([[BadExportForYou the only disc that came to the U.S.]]), you play as the Republic against the Empire and the Cultists. On disc II, you play as the Empire against the Republic and the Cultists. Disc III is when everyone realizes that the Cultists are the only real bad guys and go against them.
* Played straight as an arrow in ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'', with Darth Malak as the absolute authority over the evil Sith Empire and the Dark Jedi themselves battling the Senate-controlled Republic and the Council-ruled Jedi.

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** It's actually averted in ''ShiningForceIII''.''VideoGame/ShiningForceIII''. On disc I ([[BadExportForYou the only disc that came to the U.S.]]), you play as the Republic against the Empire and the Cultists. On disc II, you play as the Empire against the Republic and the Cultists. Disc III is when everyone realizes that the Cultists are the only real bad guys and go against them.
* Played straight as an arrow in ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'', ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'', with Darth Malak as the absolute authority over the evil Sith Empire and the Dark Jedi themselves battling the Senate-controlled Republic and the Council-ruled Jedi.
24th Dec '16 3:02:21 AM 20thcenturyvole
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* Played with in ''Series/BabylonFive'' with the Centauri Republic. It's called a ''republic'', and its main representative is Londo, [[BeneathTheMask a harmless, funny old drunk dreaming of distant glories]] - plus, they gave the humans hyperdrive technology! What a nice bunch. However, as the series progresses, it becomes apparent that the Centauri "Republic" is actually a technologically advanced absolute monarchy at the whim of a DeadlyDecadentCourt, which given half the chance begins rapidly expanding again and soon embroils the galaxy in a bloody conflict.
8th Dec '16 7:49:55 AM Morgenthaler
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* When Captain Marvel overthrows an evil monarch in that era he always had a democracy set up.

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* When Captain Marvel ComicBook/CaptainMarvel overthrows an evil monarch in that era he always had a democracy set up.
16th Nov '16 2:09:25 PM LordInsane
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* ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' has what may well be an in-universe invocation of this (even if it plays it straight): the Romulan Star Empire (after the Hobus incident) have developed into a combined military dictatorship/police state with Sela having enshrined herself as a ruling Empress and having the Senate under her thumb, while working in alliance with the Tal Shiar to maintain control over other colony worlds. The Romulan ''Republic'' starts the game as a rebel movement consisting of a coalition of Reunificationists[[note]]Romulans who want to reconnect with Vulcan and Surak's followers[[/note]], other Romulan and Reman dissidents and Romulans who got driven to dissidence over having serious reservations about Sela's and the Tal Shiar's methods, and early on colonises a world to serve as a capital for setting up a rival government (an alliance with the Federation and the Klingon Empire acts as a shield to keep Sela from just launching a full-scale invasion) explicitly meant to be a more open, freer society than the old Star Empire, and to all appearances living up to that.
26th Oct '16 12:11:46 PM cdrood
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** While TheFederation is ostensibly a democracy, its member worlds have been shown to be somewhat mixed as to their form of government. An episode of [[StarTrekTOS the Original Series]] had a member world where the elites lived in a cloud city while the workers, who were little more than slaves due to the conditions of the mines, lived on the surface in caves.

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** While TheFederation is ostensibly a democracy, its member worlds have been shown to be somewhat mixed as to their form of government. An episode of [[StarTrekTOS [[StarTrekTheOriginalSeries the Original Series]] had a member world where the elites lived in a cloud city while the workers, who were little more than slaves due to the conditions of the mines, lived on the surface in caves.
26th Oct '16 12:11:05 PM cdrood
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Added DiffLines:

** While TheFederation is ostensibly a democracy, its member worlds have been shown to be somewhat mixed as to their form of government. An episode of [[StarTrekTOS the Original Series]] had a member world where the elites lived in a cloud city while the workers, who were little more than slaves due to the conditions of the mines, lived on the surface in caves.
11th Oct '16 8:10:39 AM Paireon
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** The biggest irony is that despite being less populated and smaller than the Empire, the Alliance has fought it to a standstill for 150 years, and even with its corrupt elite, its GDP by capita was nearly twice as big as the Empire. Reinhart himself admits that [[spoiler:if the Alliance's idealists had not been blocked by a glass ceiling, he would not have been able to beat them]]. It's actually the whole reason of Yang's loyalty toward the Alliance: he claims repeatedly that the worst democraty is still better that the best dictatorship.

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** The biggest irony is that despite being less populated and smaller than the Empire, the Alliance has fought it to a standstill for 150 years, and even with its corrupt elite, its GDP by capita was nearly twice as big as the Empire. Reinhart himself admits that [[spoiler:if the Alliance's idealists had not been blocked by a glass ceiling, he would not have been able to beat them]]. It's actually the whole reason of Yang's loyalty toward the Alliance: he claims repeatedly that the worst democraty democracy is still better that the best dictatorship.
11th Oct '16 8:08:31 AM Paireon
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** Though this is a case of an {{unreliable narrator speaking}} to a group of soldiers before battle. Belittling the enemy as a bunch of wishy-washy pansies, praising your violent and decisive king, and mocking politicians is a good way to rile them up. Why would the narrator speak of anything positive regarding the Persians?

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** Though this is a case of an {{unreliable narrator speaking}} narrator}} speaking to a group of soldiers before battle. Belittling the enemy as a bunch of wishy-washy pansies, praising your violent and decisive king, and mocking politicians is a good way to rile them up. Why would the narrator speak of anything positive regarding the Persians?
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