History Main / GodsNeedPrayerBadly

12th Mar '17 1:30:58 PM BattleMaster
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* In ''{{ComicBook/Crimson}}'', humans are most favored by the Creator because his existence is sustained by their collective belief and worship, in contrast to supernatural monsters such as vampires, werewolves, dragons and etc. One of the reasons why the Devil managed to turn a very powerful race that predated mankind known as the Grigori, was because they were shunned by God due to their inability to "sustain" him. This turns into a plot-point when [[spoiler:the BigBad's plan to destroy reality starts with [[KillAllHumans wiping out humanity]], which would weaken God enough for her to [[KillTheGod destroy him herself]]]].

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* In ''{{ComicBook/Crimson}}'', ''ComicBook/{{Crimson}}'', humans are most favored by the Creator because his existence is sustained by their collective belief and worship, in contrast to supernatural monsters such as vampires, werewolves, dragons and etc. One of the reasons why the Devil managed to turn a very powerful race that predated mankind known as the Grigori, was because they were shunned by God due to their inability to "sustain" him. This turns into a plot-point when [[spoiler:the BigBad's plan to destroy reality starts with [[KillAllHumans wiping out humanity]], which would weaken God enough for her to [[KillTheGod destroy him herself]]]].herself]]]].
* In ''ComicBook/GodzillaRageAcrossTime'', Aphrodite vainly tries to warn Zeus and the other gods of this trope, as she feels that they've become too uncaring for the fates of mortals. Her warnings [[CassandraTruth turn out to be true]] when Godzilla appears and attacks Mt Olympus: Zeus finds that the lack of faith has weakened him and the gods are slain by the King of Monsters.
12th Mar '17 11:14:53 AM nombretomado
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* In ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'', the Heroic Spirits (not outright gods but at least a few levels of spiritualism above humans) mostly exist due to - and are partially sustained and empowered by - the belief they've inspired in humanity. Their strength appears based partly on their actual power and partly on pure PopularityPower. As Rin explains in the game prologue, even fictional characters count, what matters is the image created by the minds of the people. The game features two major explorations of this - [[spoiler:Assassin is a nameless samurai called forth to play the role of Sasaki Kojiro, an opponent of MiyamotoMusashi]], who is entirely fictional in the Franchise/{{Nasuverse}}. In other words, the pure belief that humanity has in the existence of said hero is so strong that it allows him to exist, [[spoiler:albeit through summoning a nameless spirit to take on his name and fill his role]]. On the flip side, [[spoiler:Archer is a hero from the future]]; nobody knows of his existence and he therefore owes neither his existence nor any of his powers from belief, persisting as a Heroic Spirit only through the connection all Heroic Spirits have with the earth itself. [[TheBerserker Heracles]], naturally, gets top billing either way you look at it. [[Literature/TheEpicOfGilgamesh Gilgamesh]] (the very first Heroic Spirit) and Myth/KingArthur also rank highly, as does [[UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat Iskander]] in ''LightNovel/FateZero''. To clarify a bit, if a person gains enough acknowledgement in the minds of humanity at large - be it as a Hero, Villian, or Anti-Hero - , real or imagined, they go to the afterlife known as the Throne of Heroes, rather than what happens to normal souls. Once there, they become pseudo-deific spirits of enormous power known as Heroic Spirits. As the Throne exists outside of time, all Heroic Spirits, past, present, and future, dwell there, even after being completely forgotten. That said, a Heroic Spirit's power(as well as their specific Noble Phantasms. Such as, King Arthur's Excalibur is the most famous part of his legend. So naturally it is more powerful than another, such as Rhongomyniad, another weapon of his, yet a far more obscure one) increases the most people know about it. So while being forgotten won't kill or destroy them, being remembered makes them stronger. It even happens on a local level. Hercules is a famous Heroic Spirit worldwide, so when he is summoned as Berserker in Japan, he retains a far greater portion of his powers than Cú Chulainn - Lancer - who would normally be capable of going head-to-head with him, but is so obscure in Japan that he holds only a fraction of his normal strength. This has lead to him being dubbed by fans as "the Most Useless Servant in the War". For a bit of context, when Vlad the Impaler is summoned in Fate/Apocrypha, he is at about 60% power outside of Transylvania, and he's famous worldwide for inspiring the Legend of Dracula. Cú Chulainn, on the other hand, is so obscenely obscure outside of Northern Europe that its unlikely that people from anywhere else had even heard of him before watching this.

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* In ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'', the Heroic Spirits (not outright gods but at least a few levels of spiritualism above humans) mostly exist due to - and are partially sustained and empowered by - the belief they've inspired in humanity. Their strength appears based partly on their actual power and partly on pure PopularityPower. As Rin explains in the game prologue, even fictional characters count, what matters is the image created by the minds of the people. The game features two major explorations of this - [[spoiler:Assassin is a nameless samurai called forth to play the role of Sasaki Kojiro, an opponent of MiyamotoMusashi]], UsefulNotes/MiyamotoMusashi]], who is entirely fictional in the Franchise/{{Nasuverse}}. In other words, the pure belief that humanity has in the existence of said hero is so strong that it allows him to exist, [[spoiler:albeit through summoning a nameless spirit to take on his name and fill his role]]. On the flip side, [[spoiler:Archer is a hero from the future]]; nobody knows of his existence and he therefore owes neither his existence nor any of his powers from belief, persisting as a Heroic Spirit only through the connection all Heroic Spirits have with the earth itself. [[TheBerserker Heracles]], naturally, gets top billing either way you look at it. [[Literature/TheEpicOfGilgamesh Gilgamesh]] (the very first Heroic Spirit) and Myth/KingArthur also rank highly, as does [[UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat Iskander]] in ''LightNovel/FateZero''. To clarify a bit, if a person gains enough acknowledgement in the minds of humanity at large - be it as a Hero, Villian, or Anti-Hero - , real or imagined, they go to the afterlife known as the Throne of Heroes, rather than what happens to normal souls. Once there, they become pseudo-deific spirits of enormous power known as Heroic Spirits. As the Throne exists outside of time, all Heroic Spirits, past, present, and future, dwell there, even after being completely forgotten. That said, a Heroic Spirit's power(as well as their specific Noble Phantasms. Such as, King Arthur's Excalibur is the most famous part of his legend. So naturally it is more powerful than another, such as Rhongomyniad, another weapon of his, yet a far more obscure one) increases the most people know about it. So while being forgotten won't kill or destroy them, being remembered makes them stronger. It even happens on a local level. Hercules is a famous Heroic Spirit worldwide, so when he is summoned as Berserker in Japan, he retains a far greater portion of his powers than Cú Chulainn - Lancer - who would normally be capable of going head-to-head with him, but is so obscure in Japan that he holds only a fraction of his normal strength. This has lead to him being dubbed by fans as "the Most Useless Servant in the War". For a bit of context, when Vlad the Impaler is summoned in Fate/Apocrypha, he is at about 60% power outside of Transylvania, and he's famous worldwide for inspiring the Legend of Dracula. Cú Chulainn, on the other hand, is so obscenely obscure outside of Northern Europe that its unlikely that people from anywhere else had even heard of him before watching this.
5th Mar '17 11:46:44 AM MajinAkuma
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** At least thrice in the [[VideoGame/HyperdimensionNeptuniaVictory third game]], but for separate reasons. The first time it happens, Eden, a new nation born from the Seven Sages ([[QuirkyMinibossSquad or what's left of them]]), ends up sapping the shares as the new console on the market, the UsefulNotes/TurboGrafx16. The new console (Yellow Heart) holds well, but [[spoiler:its price threshold and the eventual reveal about who she really is]] marks the end of its short life. The second time, [[spoiler:although it takes place in the past but is explained near the end, the previous nation's CPU, Rei Ryghts, was the leader of [[Creator/{{Atari}} Tari]]. She controlled the populace through fear and greed, but she didn't know her power was fueled by the people, so when ''[[UsefulNotes/TheGreatVideoGameCrashOf1983 that]]'' happened, the people revolted and she became extremely weak. In retaliation, she decided to destroy the entire nation outright]]. The third is when [[spoiler:Future Rei manipulates the populace to only believe in her and weaken every other nation, effectively destroying the balance of the dimension's shares and threatening to destory an ''entire dimension'' with her newfound power]].

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** At least thrice in the [[VideoGame/HyperdimensionNeptuniaVictory third game]], but for separate reasons. The first time it happens, Eden, a new nation born from the Seven Sages ([[QuirkyMinibossSquad or what's left of them]]), ends up sapping the shares as the new console on the market, the UsefulNotes/TurboGrafx16. The new console (Yellow Heart) holds well, but [[spoiler:its price threshold and the eventual reveal about who she really is]] marks the end of its short life. The second time, [[spoiler:although it takes place in the past but is explained near the end, the previous nation's CPU, Rei Ryghts, was the leader of [[Creator/{{Atari}} Tari]]. She controlled the populace through fear and greed, but she didn't know her power was fueled by the people, so when ''[[UsefulNotes/TheGreatVideoGameCrashOf1983 that]]'' happened, the people revolted and she became extremely weak. In retaliation, she decided to destroy the entire nation outright]]. The third is when [[spoiler:Future [[spoiler:Hyper Dimension Rei manipulates the populace to only believe in her and weaken every other nation, effectively destroying the balance of the dimension's shares and threatening to destory an ''entire dimension'' with her newfound power]].
10th Feb '17 11:06:22 PM DarkHunter
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* In ''Webcomic/GunnerkriggCourt'', Coyote says that's how he came into existence. [[TricksterGod Whether or not this is TRUE is another matter entirely]].
** That said, with what happened to the Native Americans it's clear lack of worshippers doesn't diminish the power of something that has gained it (assuming Coyote's theory is true).

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* In ''Webcomic/GunnerkriggCourt'', Coyote says that's believes that this is how he came into existence. [[TricksterGod Whether or not this is TRUE is another matter entirely]].
**
entirely]]. That said, with what happened to the Native Americans it's clear lack of worshippers doesn't diminish the power of something that has gained it (assuming Coyote's theory is true).
7th Feb '17 4:46:12 PM lu127
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Added DiffLines:

* ''VideoGame/TalesOfInnocence'': A direct, symbiotic case. The Devaloka needs the prayer and faith of people from the Naraka to sustain itself. The church's role was to deliver the prayers of the faithful to the gods. In turn, the gods would bestow miracles upon Naraka with the power of the Heavenly Artes. When the people's faith started to wane, they had to resort to taking human souls to fortify it, and the church lost its influence.
7th Jan '17 8:57:31 PM merotoker
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** In general this applies more to DC than Marvel. In Marvel the abstracts are not usually called gods and transcend them. More traditional gods like Thor and Ares have not been worshiped on a wide scale for centuries. They don't complain about loss of power or seek out new worshipers. They show no loss of power over time. Some writers have shown a connection between mortals and gods, but generally this is more a cultural connection that allows gods to interact on Earth instead of a dependency on faith.

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** In general this applies more to DC than Marvel. In Marvel the abstracts are not usually called gods and transcend them. More traditional gods like Thor [[ComicBook/TheMightyThor Thor]] and Ares ComicBook/{{Ares}} have not been worshiped on a wide scale for centuries. They don't complain about loss of power or seek out new worshipers. They show no loss of power over time. Some writers have shown a connection between mortals and gods, but generally this is more a cultural connection that allows gods to interact on Earth instead of a dependency on faith.



** DC has this apply to Uncle Sam, whose power is directly proportional to the American People's belief in freedom and liberty. Whether American protectorates like Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands' people's belief in freedom and liberty counts towards this is never specified.
** Thor once discussed this with Captain America. Even he's not certain whether his existence depends on mortal belief, and wonders if he will just vanish when people no longer need him.
** Loki on the other hand quite confident on claiming that gods ''don't'' need belief... but they do need something from people and that's [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality stories]]. On one hand believing Loki is not a smart idea on the other they ''did'' demonstrate the ability to affect change by mucking with myths. (To date Loki successfully rewrote Cul, wrote Hela into existence, and retold Loki.)
** Prior to the New 52 reboot, DC villain Eclipso tried to kill {{God}} by destroying the focal point of the worship that sustains Him: [[spoiler:Earth.]]

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** DC has this apply to [[ComicBook/FreedomFighters Uncle Sam, Sam]], whose power is directly proportional to the American People's belief in freedom and liberty. Whether American protectorates like Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands' people's belief in freedom and liberty counts towards this is never specified.
** Thor once discussed this with Captain America.ComicBook/CaptainAmerica. Even he's not certain whether his existence depends on mortal belief, and wonders if he will just vanish when people no longer need him.
** Loki ComicBook/{{Loki}} on the other hand quite confident on claiming that gods ''don't'' need belief... but they do need something from people and that's [[TheoryOfNarrativeCausality stories]]. On one hand believing Loki is not a smart idea on the other they ''did'' demonstrate the ability to affect change by mucking with myths. (To date Loki successfully rewrote Cul, wrote Hela into existence, and retold Loki.)
** Prior to the New 52 ComicBook/{{New 52}} reboot, DC villain Eclipso tried to kill {{God}} by destroying the focal point of the worship that sustains Him: [[spoiler:Earth.]][[spoiler:Earth]].



* In ComicBook/{{Lanfeust}}, the Darshanide Gods need believers to exist. The first time the heroes visit the divine court, they witness the goddess [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_Renaud Lynrenö]] fading into nothingness as her last believer dies.
* In {{ComicBook/Crimson}}, humans are most favored by the Creator because his existence is sustained by their collective belief and worship, in contrast to supernatural monsters such as vampires, werewolves, dragons and etc. One of the reasons why the Devil managed to turn a very powerful race that predated mankind known as the Grigori, was because they were shunned by God due to their inability to "sustain" him. This turns into a plot-point when [[spoiler:the BigBad's plan to destroy reality starts with [[KillAllHumans wiping out humanity]], which would weaken God enough for her to [[KillTheGod destroy him herself]]]].

to:

* In ComicBook/{{Lanfeust}}, ''ComicBook/{{Lanfeust}}'', the Darshanide Gods need believers to exist. The first time the heroes visit the divine court, they witness the goddess [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_Renaud Lynrenö]] fading into nothingness as her last believer dies.
* In {{ComicBook/Crimson}}, ''{{ComicBook/Crimson}}'', humans are most favored by the Creator because his existence is sustained by their collective belief and worship, in contrast to supernatural monsters such as vampires, werewolves, dragons and etc. One of the reasons why the Devil managed to turn a very powerful race that predated mankind known as the Grigori, was because they were shunned by God due to their inability to "sustain" him. This turns into a plot-point when [[spoiler:the BigBad's plan to destroy reality starts with [[KillAllHumans wiping out humanity]], which would weaken God enough for her to [[KillTheGod destroy him herself]]]].



* In ''WesternAnimation/RiseOfTheGuardians'', the Guardians (and other beings), [[spoiler:cannot be seen or touched by those who don't believe in them, and are weakened by lack of it. This becomes a problem when Pitch Black, AKA the Boogeyman, attempts to destroy children's belief in them, as he is tired of children not fearing him, at one point weakening Bunny to the size and shape of a regular rabbit.]]

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* In ''WesternAnimation/RiseOfTheGuardians'', the Guardians (and other beings), [[spoiler:cannot be seen or touched by those who don't believe in them, and are weakened by lack of it. This becomes a problem when Pitch Black, AKA the Boogeyman, attempts to destroy children's belief in them, as he is tired of children not fearing him, at one point weakening Bunny to the size and shape of a regular rabbit.]]rabbit]].



* ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'' use this with a few unique ripples. Spiritual entities need some level of recognition to operate on Earth. Thus the various old gods (with a little 'g') have very little ability to act on their power. This is laid out in info concerning [[spoiler: the Venatori, who fight the Oblivion War, trying to get all memory of magical entities removed from the human psyche, and therefore cut their connection to the material world. Need-to-know basis doesn't even begin to describe it. But now ''you'' know, so now they have to kill you. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Smooth.]]]]

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* ''Literature/TheDresdenFiles'' use this with a few unique ripples. Spiritual entities need some level of recognition to operate on Earth. Thus the various old gods (with a little 'g') have very little ability to act on their power. This is laid out in info concerning [[spoiler: the Venatori, who fight the Oblivion War, trying to get all memory of magical entities removed from the human psyche, and therefore cut their connection to the material world. Need-to-know basis doesn't even begin to describe it. But now ''you'' know, so now they have to kill you. [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Smooth.]]]]Smooth]]]].



** ''Discworld/TheLastHero'' introduces Nuggan, a minor deity hailing from Borogravia. An unpleasant god with an unpleasant mustache, he's a bossy little deity whose holy books are three-ring binders so he can constantly add to the list of Abominations that make life so miserable for his followers - when the Silver Horde brings a Borogravian bard to Dunmanifestan, they have to physically restrain the man from attacking his god. By ''Discworld/MonstrousRegiment'', the Abominations have helped cripple a war-torn Borogravia's economy (no more crop rotation) and have become so deranged (Abominating babies and the color blue) that citizens have taken to praying to the land's Duchess for succor. [[spoiler:In the end, Nuggan is revealed to have faded away, with the Abominations as a sort of echo, while Borogravia's faith in its Duchess has given the now dead woman a quasi-deity status, much to her consternation]].

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** ''Discworld/TheLastHero'' introduces Nuggan, a minor deity hailing from Borogravia. An unpleasant god with an unpleasant mustache, he's a bossy little deity whose holy books are three-ring binders so he can constantly add to the list of Abominations that make life so miserable for his followers - when the Silver Horde brings a Borogravian bard to Dunmanifestan, they have to physically restrain the man from attacking his god. By ''Discworld/MonstrousRegiment'', the Abominations have helped cripple a war-torn Borogravia's economy (no more crop rotation) and have become so deranged (Abominating babies and the color blue) that citizens have taken to praying to the land's Duchess for succor. [[spoiler:In the end, Nuggan is revealed to have faded away, with the Abominations as a sort of echo, while Borogravia's faith in its Duchess has given the now dead woman a quasi-deity status, much to her consternation]].consternation.]]



* This is the prominent plot point for Creator/MargaretWeis and TracyHickman in the ''Literature/RoseOfTheProphet'' series.

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* This is the prominent plot point for Creator/MargaretWeis and TracyHickman Creator/TracyHickman in the ''Literature/RoseOfTheProphet'' series.



* [[GodIsEvil Yahweh]], in ''Literature/TheSalvationWar''. A {{lampshade|Hanging}} is hung on it by an intelligence officer, who describes him as "Like [[Series/StargateSG1 the Ori]]." Satan, on the other hand, is collecting suffering in Hell. They are both collecting because [[spoiler:they both have the unsubstantiated belief that they need more energy to AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence since both of their universes are shrinking and will collapse eventually (in a few billion years).]]

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* [[GodIsEvil Yahweh]], in ''Literature/TheSalvationWar''. A {{lampshade|Hanging}} is hung on it by an intelligence officer, who describes him as "Like [[Series/StargateSG1 the Ori]]." Satan, on the other hand, is collecting suffering in Hell. They are both collecting because [[spoiler:they both have the unsubstantiated belief that they need more energy to AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence since both of their universes are shrinking and will collapse eventually (in a few billion years).]]years)]].



* In Creator/SimonRGreen's ''The {{Nightside}} Series'', gods function rather like this. They even have harkers out on the Street of Gods trying to increase their base of worship to gain more power. Who often dissolve into shouting matches over whose dogma's right. It's a God eat God world out there...

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* In Creator/SimonRGreen's ''The {{Nightside}} Literature/{{Nightside}} Series'', gods function rather like this. They even have harkers out on the Street of Gods trying to increase their base of worship to gain more power. Who often dissolve into shouting matches over whose dogma's right. It's a God eat God world out there...



* The Greek gods in Marie Phillips's ''Gods Behaving Badly'' have been holed up in a house in North London for a century or two, reduced to shadows of their former selves because the faith that made them powerful is now going to "[[{{Jesus}} the upstart carpenter]]" and his father.
* C.S. Friedman's ''ColdfireTrilogy'' is set on a world where an occult force makes human imagination become real. Unsurprisingly, a number of god-beings start to appear who answer prayers in return for feeding on their worshippers' life-energy.

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* The Greek gods in Marie Phillips's ''Gods Behaving Badly'' have been holed up in a house in North London for a century or two, reduced to shadows of their former selves because the faith that made them powerful is now going to "[[{{Jesus}} "[[UsefulNotes/{{Jesus}} the upstart carpenter]]" and his father.
* C.S. Friedman's ''ColdfireTrilogy'' ''Literature/ColdfireTrilogy'' is set on a world where an occult force makes human imagination become real. Unsurprisingly, a number of god-beings start to appear who answer prayers in return for feeding on their worshippers' life-energy.



* In the ''IronDruidChronicles'' the gods have their own sources of magic and don't really need to be constantly worshiped to remain powerful, but active worship is required for them to be able to physically manifest on Earth, and the way people believe in them shapes their appearance when they do. However, they only need to manifest after their original bodies die. Otherwise they're fine.

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* In the ''IronDruidChronicles'' ''Literature/IronDruidChronicles'' the gods have their own sources of magic and don't really need to be constantly worshiped to remain powerful, but active worship is required for them to be able to physically manifest on Earth, and the way people believe in them shapes their appearance when they do. However, they only need to manifest after their original bodies die. Otherwise they're fine.



* This is the rule that underlies the metaphysics of John Scalzi's novella ''The God Engines.'' The more worshipers a god has, and the stronger their faith is, the more powerful the god gets. It also puts a couple of twists on the idea - first, gods get more power from worshipers who converted from another faith than from people who "inherited" the religion, and more still from worshipers who convert from atheism. [[spoiler:The main character's god even keeps planets sequestered from all religion as a sort of "atheist farm," just so they can be converted with a quick miracle to provide a power boost when needed]]. And second, gods can [[spoiler:''[[YourSoulIsMine eat souls]]'' to get even more energy from each person, although even other gods consider that a MoralEventHorizon.]]

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* This is the rule that underlies the metaphysics of John Scalzi's novella ''The God Engines.'' The more worshipers a god has, and the stronger their faith is, the more powerful the god gets. It also puts a couple of twists on the idea - first, gods get more power from worshipers who converted from another faith than from people who "inherited" the religion, and more still from worshipers who convert from atheism. [[spoiler:The main character's god even keeps planets sequestered from all religion as a sort of "atheist farm," just so they can be converted with a quick miracle to provide a power boost when needed]]. And second, gods can [[spoiler:''[[YourSoulIsMine eat souls]]'' to get even more energy from each person, although even other gods consider that a MoralEventHorizon.]]MoralEventHorizon]].



* in ''Little Man On The Subway''(Creator/IsaacAsimov) Mr Crumley mentions that he can only make minor miracles, because he does not have enough followers.

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* in In ''Little Man On The Subway''(Creator/IsaacAsimov) Subway'' (Creator/IsaacAsimov) Mr Crumley mentions that he can only make minor miracles, because he does not have enough followers.



* The initially conventional Christian-themed horror series ''Series/{{Brimstone}}'', in which a damned policeman is given a second chance at life by {{Satan}} in return for tracking down 113 souls who had escaped from Hell, undergoes a dizzying GenreShift when [[spoiler:the LAPD policewoman who had been his inside track with Earthly authorities is revealed to be the ringleader of the souls, a dead Canaanite priestess who had engineered the escape from Hell by seducing Satan. (The policeman had, unwittingly, been helping her to eliminate members of her "gang" that had gone rogue.) Her plan is to systematically eradicate belief in the God of Abraham from human culture, thereby causing God, Heaven, and Hell, to all blink out of existence. The protagonist realizes that Satan had been desperate to retrieve the escaped spirits, not out of some altruistic desire to restore the CosmicBalance, but because if the priestess were to succeed in her agenda, Satan, being part of the Abrahamic mythos himself, would blink out of existence as well.]] Naturally, just as the series threatened to actually become interesting, the network [[ScrewedByTheNetwork pulled the plug]].

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* The initially conventional Christian-themed horror series ''Series/{{Brimstone}}'', in which a damned policeman is given a second chance at life by {{Satan}} in return for tracking down 113 souls who had escaped from Hell, undergoes a dizzying GenreShift when [[spoiler:the LAPD policewoman who had been his inside track with Earthly authorities is revealed to be the ringleader of the souls, a dead Canaanite priestess who had engineered the escape from Hell by seducing Satan. (The policeman had, unwittingly, been helping her to eliminate members of her "gang" that had gone rogue.) Her plan is to systematically eradicate belief in the God of Abraham from human culture, thereby causing God, Heaven, and Hell, to all blink out of existence. The protagonist realizes that Satan had been desperate to retrieve the escaped spirits, not out of some altruistic desire to restore the CosmicBalance, but because if the priestess were to succeed in her agenda, Satan, being part of the Abrahamic mythos himself, would blink out of existence as well.]] well]]. Naturally, just as the series threatened to actually become interesting, the network [[ScrewedByTheNetwork pulled the plug]].



* ''Series/{{Heroes}}'' season 4 BigBad Samuel Sullivan is a super whose [[DishingOutDirt geokinetic powers]] become stronger if he is surrounded by other supers who believe in him. In theory he could ''break the world'' if he had a large enough crowd of supers nearby. His brother Joseph hid the true nature of Samuel's power from him and deliberately limited the size of their super carnival to prevent Samuel from becoming too dangerous [[spoiler:and Samuel killed him when he found out the truth]]. Samuel is eventually defeated when [[spoiler:his fratricide is brought to light, causing his fellow super carnies to lose faith in him, and Hiro teleports them away.]] Samuel is left all alone in an empty carnival as a powerless, broken, shell of a man.

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* ''Series/{{Heroes}}'' season 4 BigBad Samuel Sullivan is a super whose [[DishingOutDirt geokinetic powers]] become stronger if he is surrounded by other supers who believe in him. In theory he could ''break the world'' if he had a large enough crowd of supers nearby. His brother Joseph hid the true nature of Samuel's power from him and deliberately limited the size of their super carnival to prevent Samuel from becoming too dangerous [[spoiler:and Samuel killed him when he found out the truth]]. Samuel is eventually defeated when [[spoiler:his fratricide is brought to light, causing his fellow super carnies to lose faith in him, and Hiro teleports them away.]] away]]. Samuel is left all alone in an empty carnival as a powerless, broken, shell of a man.



* Dystheists (those who believe in God, [[NayTheist but believe that GodIsEvil]]) often believe that God will die if nobody worships him. Which is what they hope will eventually happen, because they believe humanity cannot truly be free until God dies.

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* Dystheists (those who believe in God, [[NayTheist but believe that GodIsEvil]]) that]] GodIsEvil) often believe that God will die if nobody worships him. Which is what they hope will eventually happen, because they believe humanity cannot truly be free until God dies.



** Similarly, the von Carsteins of {{Warhammer}} wants to convert the entire world to zombies under their command in order to deny Chaos their bodies and minds. Sadly, the other factions failed to see the logic in this and fight the vampires as much as they do Chaos and each other.

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** Similarly, the von Carsteins of {{Warhammer}} TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}} wants to convert the entire world to zombies under their command in order to deny Chaos their bodies and minds. Sadly, the other factions failed to see the logic in this and fight the vampires as much as they do Chaos and each other.



* Before coming up with ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'' and acquiring TSR, WizardsOfTheCoast released a supplement called ''The Primal Order'' to provide formal system-independent rules for deities and ways they interacted with mortals and each other. As described, all gods had a certain amount of power at all times (unless deprived of that by suitable attacks, at which point they could expect to shortly cease to exist barring possession of a loyal home plane to regenerate from over the course of a century), but gathering worshippers both living and dead as well as acquiring planar real estate and spheres of influence all provided significant boosts that only the strangest gods would want to do without.

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* Before coming up with ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'' and acquiring TSR, WizardsOfTheCoast Creator/WizardsOfTheCoast released a supplement called ''The Primal Order'' to provide formal system-independent rules for deities and ways they interacted with mortals and each other. As described, all gods had a certain amount of power at all times (unless deprived of that by suitable attacks, at which point they could expect to shortly cease to exist barring possession of a loyal home plane to regenerate from over the course of a century), but gathering worshippers both living and dead as well as acquiring planar real estate and spheres of influence all provided significant boosts that only the strangest gods would want to do without.



** After months of speculation, [[http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ur/303 it was finally revealed to be the canon situation]], with the Theros gods being born from humanity's beliefs infused in Nyx (Theros' [[TheSacredDarkness magical nightsky]], associated with dreams and the subconscious). As per Kruphix (the god of horizons and mysteries), many gods have come and gone, including previous [[ThePowerOfTheSun sun gods]] (Theros' current sun god, [[BiggerBad Heliod]], [[{{Irony}} is an arrogant douchebag who proclaims himself "the greatest of these"]]). Following [[spoiler:Elspeth's death]], Ajani Goldmane has openly declared war on the gods by convincing people not to worship them.

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** After months of speculation, [[http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ur/303 it was finally revealed to be the canon situation]], with the Theros gods being born from humanity's beliefs infused in Nyx (Theros' [[TheSacredDarkness magical nightsky]], associated with dreams and the subconscious). As per Kruphix (the god of horizons and mysteries), many gods have come and gone, including previous [[ThePowerOfTheSun sun gods]] (Theros' current sun god, [[BiggerBad [[GreaterScopeVillain Heliod]], [[{{Irony}} is an arrogant douchebag who proclaims himself "the greatest of these"]]). Following [[spoiler:Elspeth's death]], Ajani Goldmane has openly declared war on the gods by convincing people not to worship them.



** In the [[VideoGame/HyperdimensionNeptunia first game]], [[spoiler:Arfoire, the villain, spends most of the game spreading rumors of a fake overlord with monster attacks and heretics, using the fear and belief of the people to gain power. It's how she kept reviving and getting stronger each time.]]

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** In the [[VideoGame/HyperdimensionNeptunia first game]], [[spoiler:Arfoire, the villain, spends most of the game spreading rumors of a fake overlord with monster attacks and heretics, using the fear and belief of the people to gain power. It's how she kept reviving and getting stronger each time.]]time]].



** At least thrice in the [[VideoGame/HyperdimensionNeptuniaVictory third game]], but for separate reasons. The first time it happens, Eden, a new nation born from the Seven Sages ([[QuirkyMinibossSquad or what's left of them]]), ends up sapping the shares as the new console on the market, the TurboGrafx16. The new console (Yellow Heart) holds well, but [[spoiler:its price threshold and the eventual reveal about who she really is]] marks the end of its short life. The second time, [[spoiler:although it takes place in the past but is explained near the end, the previous nation's CPU, Rei Ryghts, was the leader of [[{{Atari}} Tari]]. She controlled the populace through fear and greed, but she didn't know her power was fueled by the people, so when ''[[UsefulNotes/TheGreatVideoGameCrashOf1983 that]]'' happened, the people revolted and she became extremely weak. In retaliation, she decided to destroy the entire nation outright.]] The third is when [[spoiler:Future Rei manipulates the populace to only believe in her and weaken every other nation, effectively destroying the balance of the dimension's shares and threatening to destory an ''entire dimension'' with her newfound power.]]

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** At least thrice in the [[VideoGame/HyperdimensionNeptuniaVictory third game]], but for separate reasons. The first time it happens, Eden, a new nation born from the Seven Sages ([[QuirkyMinibossSquad or what's left of them]]), ends up sapping the shares as the new console on the market, the TurboGrafx16.UsefulNotes/TurboGrafx16. The new console (Yellow Heart) holds well, but [[spoiler:its price threshold and the eventual reveal about who she really is]] marks the end of its short life. The second time, [[spoiler:although it takes place in the past but is explained near the end, the previous nation's CPU, Rei Ryghts, was the leader of [[{{Atari}} [[Creator/{{Atari}} Tari]]. She controlled the populace through fear and greed, but she didn't know her power was fueled by the people, so when ''[[UsefulNotes/TheGreatVideoGameCrashOf1983 that]]'' happened, the people revolted and she became extremely weak. In retaliation, she decided to destroy the entire nation outright.]] outright]]. The third is when [[spoiler:Future Rei manipulates the populace to only believe in her and weaken every other nation, effectively destroying the balance of the dimension's shares and threatening to destory an ''entire dimension'' with her newfound power.]]power]].



** According to WordOfGod, this is a [[http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride motive factor]] in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'', where the Thalmor, a faction of elven supremacists, have forced the empire to ban the worship of Talos, leading to the Stormcloak rebellion. The stated reason for this is that the Thalmor refuse to accept that a human could achieve godhood, although it is suggested that [[spoiler:destroying Talos by depriving him of worship is one stage in the Thalmor's grand plan to destroy Mundus and AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence. It should be noted that Talos isn't a God in quite the same way as the others, and in some sense has surpassed the Divines and Princes themselves. It is impossible to be sure if he even needs prayer, now, particularly since even as an "ordinary" human he managed to create a Dragon-break strong enough to (have) conquer(ed) an entire continent.]]
** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'', if the Champion of Cyrodiil choses to do the Daedric quest for Sheogorath ''after'' [[spoiler: becoming the ''[[LegacyCharacter new]]'' Sheogorath at the end of ''Shivering Isles'', their servant questions why they just prayed to ''themself''... only to then reconsider that as the MadGod, that sort of lunacy is rather appropriate.]]

to:

** According to WordOfGod, this is a [[http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride motive factor]] in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'', where the Thalmor, a faction of elven supremacists, have forced the empire to ban the worship of Talos, leading to the Stormcloak rebellion. The stated reason for this is that the Thalmor refuse to accept that a human could achieve godhood, although it is suggested that [[spoiler:destroying Talos by depriving him of worship is one stage in the Thalmor's grand plan to destroy Mundus and AscendToAHigherPlaneOfExistence. It should be noted that Talos isn't a God in quite the same way as the others, and in some sense has surpassed the Divines and Princes themselves. It is impossible to be sure if he even needs prayer, now, particularly since even as an "ordinary" human he managed to create a Dragon-break strong enough to (have) conquer(ed) an entire continent.]]
continent]].
** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'', if the Champion of Cyrodiil choses to do the Daedric quest for Sheogorath ''after'' [[spoiler: becoming the ''[[LegacyCharacter new]]'' Sheogorath at the end of ''Shivering Isles'', their servant questions why they just prayed to ''themself''... only to then reconsider that as the MadGod, that sort of lunacy is rather appropriate.]]appropriate]].



* Used for evil by [[spoiler:the Church of St. Eva in]] ''VideoGame/BreathOfFireII'', [[spoiler:where half the priests are demons in disguise trying to power-up the BigBad, who is in fact ''[[BeamMeUpScotty not]]'' a god but an evil dragon with an OmnicidalManiac agenda.]]

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* Used for evil by [[spoiler:the Church of St. Eva in]] ''VideoGame/BreathOfFireII'', [[spoiler:where half the priests are demons in disguise trying to power-up the BigBad, who is in fact ''[[BeamMeUpScotty not]]'' a god but an evil dragon with an OmnicidalManiac agenda.]]agenda]].



* During one {{sidequest}} in ''VideoGame/BaldursGate 2'' (set in the ''TabletopGame/ForgottenRealms''), you meet an avatar of a god with so little belief that he is fading away. [[spoiler:Amaunator]] and a small village of followers were bound to immortally guard "the device" forever, over the years their faith has transformed to hatred and the avatar can barely even show himself, much less do anything.

to:

* During one {{sidequest}} in ''VideoGame/BaldursGate 2'' ''VideoGame/BaldursGateII'' (set in the ''TabletopGame/ForgottenRealms''), you meet an avatar of a god with so little belief that he is fading away. [[spoiler:Amaunator]] and a small village of followers were bound to immortally guard "the device" forever, over the years their faith has transformed to hatred and the avatar can barely even show himself, much less do anything.



* In ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'', the Heroic Spirits (not outright gods but at least a few levels of spiritualism above humans) mostly exist due to - and are partially sustained and empowered by - the belief they've inspired in humanity. Their strength appears based partly on their actual power and partly on pure PopularityPower. As Rin explains in the game prologue, even fictional characters count, what matters is the image created by the minds of the people. The game features two major explorations of this - [[spoiler:Assassin is a nameless samurai called forth to play the role of Sasaki Kojiro, an opponent of MiyamotoMusashi]], who is entirely fictional in the {{Nasuverse}}. In other words, the pure belief that humanity has in the existence of said hero is so strong that it allows him to exist, [[spoiler:albeit through summoning a nameless spirit to take on his name and fill his role]]. On the flip side, [[spoiler:Archer is a hero from the future]]; nobody knows of his existence and he therefore owes neither his existence nor any of his powers from belief, persisting as a Heroic Spirit only through the connection all Heroic Spirits have with the earth itself. [[TheBerserker Heracles]], naturally, gets top billing either way you look at it. [[Literature/TheEpicOfGilgamesh Gilgamesh]] (the very first Heroic Spirit) and KingArthur also rank highly, as does [[UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat Iskander]] in ''LightNovel/FateZero''. To clarify a bit, if a person gains enough acknowledgement in the minds of humanity at large - be it as a Hero, Villian, or Anti-Hero - , real or imagined, they go to the afterlife known as the Throne of Heroes, rather than what happens to normal souls. Once there, they become pseudo-deific spirits of enormous power known as Heroic Spirits. As the Throne exists outside of time, all Heroic Spirits, past, present, and future, dwell there, even after being completely forgotten. That said, a Heroic Spirit's power(as well as their specific Noble Phantasms. Such as, King Arthur's Excalibur is the most famous part of his legend. So naturally it is more powerful than another, such as Rhongomyniad, another weapon of his, yet a far more obscure one) increases the most people know about it. So while being forgotten won't kill or destroy them, being remembered makes them stronger. It even happens on a local level. Hercules is a famous Heroic Spirit worldwide, so when he is summoned as Berserker in Japan, he retains a far greater portion of his powers than Cú Chulainn - Lancer - who would normally be capable of going head-to-head with him, but is so obscure in Japan that he holds only a fraction of his normal strength. This has lead to him being dubbed by fans as "the Most Useless Servant in the War". For a bit of context, when Vlad the Impaler is summoned in Fate/Apocrypha, he is at about 60% power outside of Transylvania, and he's famous worldwide for inspiring the Legend of Dracula. Cú Chulainn, on the other hand, is so obscenely obscure outside of Northern Europe that its unlikely that people from anywhere else had even heard of him before watching this.
** The gods of the {{Nasuverse}} also experienced this. While some existed before there were beings who could believe in them, many Divine Spirits were created by the belief of humanity. As time passed and worship waned, they faded and became weaker Elementals, or ceased to exist. Gilgamesh was created by the gods of ancient Mesopotamia in a vain attempt to stop this from happening to them. He [[JerkassGods saw that the gods were oppressing humanity]], and [[TurnedAgainstTheirMasters instead hastened their end]].

to:

* In ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'', the Heroic Spirits (not outright gods but at least a few levels of spiritualism above humans) mostly exist due to - and are partially sustained and empowered by - the belief they've inspired in humanity. Their strength appears based partly on their actual power and partly on pure PopularityPower. As Rin explains in the game prologue, even fictional characters count, what matters is the image created by the minds of the people. The game features two major explorations of this - [[spoiler:Assassin is a nameless samurai called forth to play the role of Sasaki Kojiro, an opponent of MiyamotoMusashi]], who is entirely fictional in the {{Nasuverse}}.Franchise/{{Nasuverse}}. In other words, the pure belief that humanity has in the existence of said hero is so strong that it allows him to exist, [[spoiler:albeit through summoning a nameless spirit to take on his name and fill his role]]. On the flip side, [[spoiler:Archer is a hero from the future]]; nobody knows of his existence and he therefore owes neither his existence nor any of his powers from belief, persisting as a Heroic Spirit only through the connection all Heroic Spirits have with the earth itself. [[TheBerserker Heracles]], naturally, gets top billing either way you look at it. [[Literature/TheEpicOfGilgamesh Gilgamesh]] (the very first Heroic Spirit) and KingArthur Myth/KingArthur also rank highly, as does [[UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat Iskander]] in ''LightNovel/FateZero''. To clarify a bit, if a person gains enough acknowledgement in the minds of humanity at large - be it as a Hero, Villian, or Anti-Hero - , real or imagined, they go to the afterlife known as the Throne of Heroes, rather than what happens to normal souls. Once there, they become pseudo-deific spirits of enormous power known as Heroic Spirits. As the Throne exists outside of time, all Heroic Spirits, past, present, and future, dwell there, even after being completely forgotten. That said, a Heroic Spirit's power(as well as their specific Noble Phantasms. Such as, King Arthur's Excalibur is the most famous part of his legend. So naturally it is more powerful than another, such as Rhongomyniad, another weapon of his, yet a far more obscure one) increases the most people know about it. So while being forgotten won't kill or destroy them, being remembered makes them stronger. It even happens on a local level. Hercules is a famous Heroic Spirit worldwide, so when he is summoned as Berserker in Japan, he retains a far greater portion of his powers than Cú Chulainn - Lancer - who would normally be capable of going head-to-head with him, but is so obscure in Japan that he holds only a fraction of his normal strength. This has lead to him being dubbed by fans as "the Most Useless Servant in the War". For a bit of context, when Vlad the Impaler is summoned in Fate/Apocrypha, he is at about 60% power outside of Transylvania, and he's famous worldwide for inspiring the Legend of Dracula. Cú Chulainn, on the other hand, is so obscenely obscure outside of Northern Europe that its unlikely that people from anywhere else had even heard of him before watching this.
** The gods of the {{Nasuverse}} Franchise/{{Nasuverse}} also experienced this. While some existed before there were beings who could believe in them, many Divine Spirits were created by the belief of humanity. As time passed and worship waned, they faded and became weaker Elementals, or ceased to exist. Gilgamesh was created by the gods of ancient Mesopotamia in a vain attempt to stop this from happening to them. He [[JerkassGods saw that the gods were oppressing humanity]], and [[TurnedAgainstTheirMasters instead hastened their end]].



* PlayedWith to an epic extent in the (now completed) ''[[http://indepos.comicgenesis.com/ Indefensible Positions.]]'' Demons are sentient memes and it's implied that gods are simply demons with a lot of believers.

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* PlayedWith [[PlayingWithATrope Played with]] to an epic extent in the (now completed) ''[[http://indepos.comicgenesis.com/ Indefensible Positions.]]'' Demons are sentient memes and it's implied that gods are simply demons with a lot of believers.
13th Nov '16 10:07:40 AM Idek618
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* The ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights2'' {{expansion|Pack}} ''Mask of the Betrayer'' is also set in the ''Forgotten Realms''. It shows just how far gods dependent on worship will go. They built the Wall of the Faithless, which punishes not sinners but non-believers. Being a atheist or a paying lip service to religion is the biggest of all sins against all the gods, and thus the good, evil, lawful, and chaotic gods all agreed that atheists shall be punished by ultimate torture and eventually the very destruction of their souls by having your soul slowly digested over thousands of years.

to:

* The ''VideoGame/NeverwinterNights2'' {{expansion|Pack}} ''Mask of the Betrayer'' is also set in the ''Forgotten Realms''. It shows just how far gods dependent on worship will go. They built the Wall of the Faithless, which punishes not sinners but non-believers. Being a an atheist or a paying lip service to religion is the biggest of all sins against all the gods, and thus the good, evil, lawful, and chaotic gods all agreed that atheists shall be punished by ultimate torture and eventually the very destruction of their souls by having your soul slowly digested over thousands of years.
9th Nov '16 4:29:19 AM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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** For as long as a single person believes in YHVH as his or her god, He will return, again and again. Unfortunately, it seems the [=MegaTen=] universe works on the same principle as ''[[Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' - Humanity's own inner darkness and desire for a God [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters that accurately represents them]] has horrifically twisted Him into a bitter, unsympathetic tyrant with nothing but contempt for humans.

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** For as long as a single person believes in YHVH as his or her god, He will return, again and again. Unfortunately, it seems the [=MegaTen=] universe works on the same principle as ''[[Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' ''Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' - Humanity's own inner darkness and desire for a God [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters that accurately represents them]] has horrifically twisted Him into a bitter, unsympathetic tyrant with nothing but contempt for humans.
9th Nov '16 4:28:51 AM UmbrellasWereAwesome
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** For as long as a single person believes in YHVH as his or her god, He will return, again and again. Unfortunately, it seems the Mega Ten universe works on the same principle as the ''Malazan'' example above-Humanity's own inner darkness and desire for a God [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters that accurately represents them]] has horrifically twisted Him into a bitter, unsympathetic tyrant with nothing but contempt for humans.
** This trope is also true for the Persona universe, where [[VideoGame/{{Persona 2}} Philemon, Nyarlathotep]], [[VideoGame/{{Persona 3}} Erebus]], and [[VideoGame/{{Persona 4}} Izanami]] are all personifications of various aspects of human mind within the Collective Unconscious.

to:

** For as long as a single person believes in YHVH as his or her god, He will return, again and again. Unfortunately, it seems the Mega Ten [=MegaTen=] universe works on the same principle as the ''Malazan'' example above-Humanity's ''[[Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' - Humanity's own inner darkness and desire for a God [[HumansAreTheRealMonsters that accurately represents them]] has horrifically twisted Him into a bitter, unsympathetic tyrant with nothing but contempt for humans.
** This trope is also true for the Persona ''[[Franchise/ShinMegamiTenseiPersona Persona]]'' universe, where [[VideoGame/{{Persona 2}} Philemon, Nyarlathotep]], [[VideoGame/{{Persona 3}} Erebus]], and [[VideoGame/{{Persona 4}} Izanami]] Izanami]], and [[spoiler:[[VideoGame/Persona5 Yaldabaoth]]]] are all personifications of various aspects of human mind within the Collective Unconscious.
7th Nov '16 5:42:24 PM skadooshbag
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** Ēostre is shown to be one of the most powerful old gods thanks to Easter. Even though most people, even self-proclaimed "pagans", don't know about her connection to the holiday.

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** Ēostre is shown to be one of the most powerful old gods thanks to Easter. Even though most people, even self-proclaimed "pagans", don't know about her connection to the holiday.[[note]]wut[[/note]]
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