History Main / GambitRoulette

8th Jan '18 5:48:24 AM Cryoclaste
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Parodied in ''The WesternAnimation/AquaTeenHungerForce Colon Movie Film for Theatres''; antagonist Walter Mellon reveals that he created the Aqua Teens, Dr. Weird, and the Insanoflex, and kidnapped [[{{Rush}} Neil Peart]] in the meanwhile, so that Frylock and Dr. Weird would ultimately become enemies and fight to their deaths, whereupon he would inherit their houses and use the land to build a gym. Frylock then informs Mellon that they all ''rent'', and he couldn't have built gyms in residential areas anyway. Then the movie ended.

to:

* Parodied in ''The WesternAnimation/AquaTeenHungerForce Colon Movie Film for Theatres''; antagonist Walter Mellon reveals that he created the Aqua Teens, Dr. Weird, and the Insanoflex, and kidnapped [[{{Rush}} [[Music/{{Rush}} Neil Peart]] in the meanwhile, so that Frylock and Dr. Weird would ultimately become enemies and fight to their deaths, whereupon he would inherit their houses and use the land to build a gym. Frylock then informs Mellon that they all ''rent'', and he couldn't have built gyms in residential areas anyway. Then the movie ended.
31st Dec '17 1:27:49 PM Gosicrystal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[spoiler:[[Characters/SuperRobotWarsAlpha Euzeth Gozzo]]]] in the ''2nd Original Generation'' applies as well. [[spoiler:Sure, he had plenty of backups to his plan, but even he admits that a huge part of why his plan pulled off as well as it did was by a large amount of chance]].

to:

** * [[spoiler:[[Characters/SuperRobotWarsAlpha Euzeth Gozzo]]]] in the ''2nd Original Generation'' applies as well.Generation''. [[spoiler:Sure, he had plenty of backups to his plan, but even he admits that a huge part of why his plan pulled off as well as it did was by a large amount of chance]].



** And in the sequel, ''Radiant Dawn'', it is revealed that Ashnard was but a pawn in an even ''larger'' roulette, orchestrated by none other than Lehran himself, who turned out to be Sephiran, the Prime Minister of Bengion, and a major ally in Path of Radiance. He wanted the "Dark God," Yune (who's actually rather nice, if a tad rude) to be released, only because this would also wake up her sister, Ashera, the Goddess of order, who would then cleanse the world of all life.

to:

** And in the sequel, ''Radiant Dawn'', * In ''VideoGame/FireEmblemRadiantDawn'', it is revealed that Ashnard was but a pawn in an even ''larger'' roulette, roulette than in ''Path of Radiance'', orchestrated by none other than Lehran himself, Lehran, who turned out to be Sephiran, the Prime Minister of Bengion, and a major ally in Path of Radiance. He wanted the "Dark God," Yune (who's actually rather nice, if a tad rude) to be released, only because this would also wake up her sister, Ashera, the Goddess of order, who would then cleanse the world of all life.



* Onaga's manipulation of Shujinko to revive him in ''VideoGame/MortalKombatDeception'' can certainly qualify.
** As well as Argus's plan to prevent TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt in ''VideoGame/MortalKombatArmageddon''.

to:

* %%* Onaga's manipulation of Shujinko to revive him in ''VideoGame/MortalKombatDeception'' can certainly qualify.
** As well as
''VideoGame/MortalKombatDeception''.
%%*
Argus's plan to prevent TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt in ''VideoGame/MortalKombatArmageddon''.



* Master Albert from the ''VideoGame/MegaManZX'' series may have broken a record for the longest-running single Gambit Roulette (in video games, at least), in order to reset the world and ''[[AGodAmI become its god.]]'' He even threw a couple of gambits into the mix. And it all conspired over a couple of centuries. It didn't quite work out, considering [[spoiler:he was fighting his great-great-great granddaughter/spare body, with the biometal with the same powers as he]], but even then, he doesn't seem to care anyway.
** Oh, and he said "Just as I planned." Talk about a MagnificentBastard.

to:

* Master Albert from the ''VideoGame/MegaManZX'' series may have broken a record for the longest-running single Gambit Roulette (in video games, at least), in order to reset the world and ''[[AGodAmI become its god.]]'' He even threw a couple of gambits into the mix. And it all conspired over a couple of centuries. It didn't quite work out, considering [[spoiler:he was fighting his great-great-great granddaughter/spare body, with the biometal with the same powers as he]], but even then, he doesn't seem to care anyway.
**
anyway. Oh, and he said "Just as I planned." Talk about a MagnificentBastard."



* ''[[VideoGame/NintendoWars Battalion Wars 2]]'' provides a fine example of this.In an attempt to recover a lost superweapon, Kaiser Vlad manipulates the news to cause the Anglo Isles to attack the Solar Empire. When the Anglo Isles retreats, the Solar Empire launches a counter-attack, and asks the Tundran Territories to help them. While everyone is busy with that, Vlad launches a full scale invasion of Tundra, fights his way to the far north, locates and mines the super weapon, and tries to run away. [[YouCantThwartStageOne Everything goes as planned,]] until that last step. The allied nations crush his armies, attack his mining spider, and in the end, Vlad and Kommandt Ubel end up trapped in a mine shaft.

to:

* ''[[VideoGame/NintendoWars Battalion Wars 2]]'' provides a fine example of this. In an attempt to recover a lost superweapon, Kaiser Vlad manipulates the news to cause the Anglo Isles to attack the Solar Empire. When the Anglo Isles retreats, the Solar Empire launches a counter-attack, and asks the Tundran Territories to help them. While everyone is busy with that, Vlad launches a full scale invasion of Tundra, fights his way to the far north, locates and mines the super weapon, and tries to run away. [[YouCantThwartStageOne Everything goes as planned,]] until that last step. The allied nations crush his armies, attack his mining spider, and in the end, Vlad and Kommandt Ubel end up trapped in a mine shaft.



*** Now Xenosaga makes a lot more sense.



* There's a [[http://youtu.be/ye7b3bOQ6lY famous video]] of a ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' player using a convoluted method to turn [[JokeCharacter Magikarp]] into an [[LethalJokeCharacter overpowered sweeper]] capable of laughing off [[TierInducedScrappy uber-tier Pokémon]]. This method relies ''extremely'' heavily on the actions of his opponent (opening with Kyogre and not switching, to give Magikarp rain for its Swift Swim speed boost), and some utterly random factors (the duration of the sleep status effect). The video creator mentions this.

to:

* ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'':
**
There's a [[http://youtu.be/ye7b3bOQ6lY famous video]] of a ''Franchise/{{Pokemon}}'' player using a convoluted method to turn [[JokeCharacter Magikarp]] into an [[LethalJokeCharacter overpowered sweeper]] capable of laughing off [[TierInducedScrappy uber-tier Pokémon]]. This method relies ''extremely'' heavily on the actions of his opponent (opening with Kyogre and not switching, to give Magikarp rain for its Swift Swim speed boost), and some utterly random factors (the duration of the sleep status effect). The video creator mentions this.



** Although its mentioned in side materials that if an Epitaph PC is deleted by the user (ie, they quit the) the Avatar will simply find a new host. Furthermore, some of the plan requires no plotting at all. Haseo ended up fighting Endrance and Kuhn of their own volition, with no manipulation required.

to:

** Although its it's mentioned in side materials that if an Epitaph PC is deleted by the user (ie, they quit the) the Avatar will simply find a new host. Furthermore, some of the plan requires no plotting at all. Haseo ended up fighting Endrance and Kuhn of their own volition, with no manipulation required.



* Pretty common in {{Stealth Based Game}}s that often involve a lot of [[SaveScumming saving and reloading.]] Wonder how [[VideoGame/SplinterCell Sam Fisher]], [[VideoGame/{{Hitman}} Agent 47]] and [[VideoGame/{{Thief}} Garrett]] are always able to pull off such neat, stainless jobs? It's because they had to go through the same scenario about ten times before finally getting the outcome they wanted.
31st Dec '17 1:15:32 PM Gosicrystal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''VisualNovel/NineHoursNinePersonsNineDoors'' [[BigBad Zero's]] plan included: Seven coming up with code names for everyone [[{{Irony}} so Zero wouldn't know their identities]], Lotus randomly talking about some crazy theory she just came up with and she herself didn't take seriously so she'd mention prosopagnosia to Junpei, or Ace entering the room when Junpei and Clover were having a conversation about [[spoiler:the first Nonary Game]] ''just'' as Clover was about to say [[spoiler:the name of girl who died back then]]. Any of these events not happening would've put Zero's plan in a tight spot. [[spoiler:Justified as Zero had a glimpse in the future nine years before the game's events so she ''could'' have known this would happen.]]

to:

* In ''VisualNovel/NineHoursNinePersonsNineDoors'' [[BigBad Zero's]] plan included: Seven coming up with code names for everyone [[{{Irony}} so Zero wouldn't know their identities]], Lotus randomly talking about some crazy theory she just came up with and she herself didn't take seriously so she'd mention prosopagnosia to Junpei, or Ace entering the room when Junpei and Clover were having a conversation about [[spoiler:the first Nonary Game]] ''just'' as Clover was about to say [[spoiler:the name of the girl who died back then]]. Any of these events not happening would've put Zero's plan in a tight spot. [[spoiler:Justified as Zero had a glimpse in the future nine years before the game's events so she ''could'' have known this would happen.]]
31st Dec '17 1:14:48 PM Gosicrystal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''VisualNovel/NineHoursNinePersonsNineDoors'' [[BigBad Zero's]] plan included: Seven coming up with code names for everyone [[{{Irony}} so Zero wouldn't know their identities]], Lotus randomly talking about some crazy theory she just came up with and she herself didn't take seriously, so she'd mention prosopagnosia to Junpei or Ace entering the room when Junpei and Clover had conversation about[[spoiler:the first Nonary Game]] ''just'' as Clover was about to say[[spoiler:the name of girl who died back then.]] Any of these events not happening would've put Zero's plan in tight spot.[[spoiler:Justified as Zero had glimpse in the future nine years before game events so she ''could'' have known this would happen.]]

to:

* In ''VisualNovel/NineHoursNinePersonsNineDoors'' [[BigBad Zero's]] plan included: Seven coming up with code names for everyone [[{{Irony}} so Zero wouldn't know their identities]], Lotus randomly talking about some crazy theory she just came up with and she herself didn't take seriously, seriously so she'd mention prosopagnosia to Junpei Junpei, or Ace entering the room when Junpei and Clover had were having a conversation about[[spoiler:the about [[spoiler:the first Nonary Game]] ''just'' as Clover was about to say[[spoiler:the say [[spoiler:the name of girl who died back then.]] then]]. Any of these events not happening would've put Zero's plan in a tight spot.spot. [[spoiler:Justified as Zero had a glimpse in the future nine years before game the game's events so she ''could'' have known this would happen.]]
26th Dec '17 1:22:47 PM xcountryguy
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The plot of the Golden Age Arc relies on a certain series of events that would be otherwise meaningless without each other. [[spoiler: Griffth's fall from grace, for instance, requires four things to happen in sequence or it's for nothing.]] Justified by events being orchestrated by [[spoiler: an EldritchAbomination]].

to:

** The plot of the Golden Age Arc relies on a certain series of events that would be otherwise meaningless without each other. [[spoiler: Griffth's [[spoiler:Griffth's fall from grace, for instance, requires four things to happen in sequence or it's for nothing.]] Justified by events being orchestrated by [[spoiler: an [[spoiler:an EldritchAbomination]].



** It's finally expanded on ''years'' later, both in real life and [[TimeSkip in-universe]]. Aizen ''was'' telling the truth when he claimed to be responsible for Ichigo's birth. However, it wasn't actually planned and mostly amounts to a lucky fluke; one of his modified-Hollow experiments was derailed by the unexpected presence of both Captain Isshin Shiba and [[spoiler:a Quincy, Masaki Kurosaki]]. But Aizen finds it fascinating when one of his experiments ''doesn't'' go as planned, and being a big fan of XanatosSpeedChess he immediately incorporates this event and its inevitable consequence (the birth of Ichigo as a [[spoiler:Shinigami/Quincy/Hollow hybrid]]) into his plan. [[spoiler:Urahara was around to witness this as well, explaining how he was able to guess that Aizen's plans would involve manipulating Ichigo.]] Despite this, it's still unclear--and debated by the fandom--whether he really [[spoiler: planned for all of Ichigo's fights--which lead to him getting killed, twice,--or if he was just screwing with Ichigo's head.]]
** Yhwach, leader of the Quincies, isn't any better. Taking out Yamamoto who he isn't strong enough to take head on? He planned for that. A possible betryal from [[spoiler: Uryu, who just joined the Quincies]]? He planned for that. Kisuke [[spoiler: restoring all of the shinigami's stolen bankais and preventing them from being taken again]]? He planned for that. Ichigo [[spoiler: leaving a path open to the Soul Palace after going there to train]]? He planned for that. While Aizen at least had to improvise once in awhile, Yhwach seems to be able to predict literally everything his opponents are going to do. [[spoiler:His [[TheDragon second in command]] later reveals Yhwach is ''literally'' omniscient once his powers fully awaken, though somehow Yhwach was successfully predicting all of his enemies' moves even before that happened.]]

to:

** It's finally expanded on ''years'' later, both in real life and [[TimeSkip in-universe]]. Aizen ''was'' telling the truth when he claimed to be responsible for Ichigo's birth. However, it wasn't actually planned and mostly amounts to a lucky fluke; one of his modified-Hollow experiments was derailed by the unexpected presence of both Captain Isshin Shiba and [[spoiler:a Quincy, Masaki Kurosaki]]. But Aizen finds it fascinating when one of his experiments ''doesn't'' go as planned, and being a big fan of XanatosSpeedChess he immediately incorporates this event and its inevitable consequence (the birth of Ichigo as a [[spoiler:Shinigami/Quincy/Hollow hybrid]]) into his plan. [[spoiler:Urahara was around to witness this as well, explaining how he was able to guess that Aizen's plans would involve manipulating Ichigo.]] Despite this, it's still unclear--and debated by the fandom--whether he really [[spoiler: planned [[spoiler:planned for all of Ichigo's fights--which lead to him getting killed, twice,--or if he was just screwing with Ichigo's head.]]
** Yhwach, leader of the Quincies, isn't any better. Taking out Yamamoto who he isn't strong enough to take head on? He planned for that. A possible betryal from [[spoiler: Uryu, [[spoiler:Uryu, who just joined the Quincies]]? He planned for that. Kisuke [[spoiler: restoring [[spoiler:restoring all of the shinigami's stolen bankais and preventing them from being taken again]]? He planned for that. Ichigo [[spoiler: leaving [[spoiler:leaving a path open to the Soul Palace after going there to train]]? He planned for that. While Aizen at least had to improvise once in awhile, Yhwach seems to be able to predict literally everything his opponents are going to do. [[spoiler:His [[TheDragon second in command]] later reveals Yhwach is ''literally'' omniscient once his powers fully awaken, though somehow Yhwach was successfully predicting all of his enemies' moves even before that happened.]]



* ''Manga/DeathNote'' is filled with these.[[note]]At one time, this trope was called the Light Yagami Gambit.[[/note]] The most impressive is the plan that [[WhamEpisode changes the course of the entire series]] -- Light arranging [[spoiler: L's death]] while coming off completely above suspicion. This involves an extended MemoryGambit, at the end of which every element needed to be exactly in the place they were in order to work. Such utterly unpredictable elements include: a cop Light didn't know prior to the MemoryGambit missing when he shot at the temporary owner of the Death Note and Light killing Higuchi while holding the Death Note, so that he could reclaim ownership of it and make the memory restoration permanent. Note that he was ''handcuffed to L'' at that point. Had the bullet been just an inch to the left, Higuchi would've died too soon and whoever picked up the Death Note first (most likely the cop who shot him) would become its official owner and Light would have had to kill ''him'' to ensure that he didn't lose his memories for good.

to:

* ''Manga/DeathNote'' is filled with these.[[note]]At one time, this trope was called the Light Yagami Gambit.[[/note]] The most impressive is the plan that [[WhamEpisode changes the course of the entire series]] -- Light arranging [[spoiler: L's [[spoiler:L's death]] while coming off completely above suspicion. This involves an extended MemoryGambit, at the end of which every element needed to be exactly in the place they were in order to work. Such utterly unpredictable elements include: a cop Light didn't know prior to the MemoryGambit missing when he shot at the temporary owner of the Death Note and Light killing Higuchi while holding the Death Note, so that he could reclaim ownership of it and make the memory restoration permanent. Note that he was ''handcuffed to L'' at that point. Had the bullet been just an inch to the left, Higuchi would've died too soon and whoever picked up the Death Note first (most likely the cop who shot him) would become its official owner and Light would have had to kill ''him'' to ensure that he didn't lose his memories for good.



* ''Manga/DetectiveConan'' once figured out a case just in time by subverting this trope. He had several suspects as to who was unknowingly given a bomb, narrowing them down by whether they had something that could hide a bomb and an electronic device that could set it off. He eventually deduced the only person it could be was [[spoiler: the woman with the cell phone]], as all other people's devices were unpredictable and accidentally pressing a button could set the bomb off too early.

to:

* ''Manga/DetectiveConan'' once figured out a case just in time by subverting this trope. He had several suspects as to who was unknowingly given a bomb, narrowing them down by whether they had something that could hide a bomb and an electronic device that could set it off. He eventually deduced the only person it could be was [[spoiler: the [[spoiler:the woman with the cell phone]], as all other people's devices were unpredictable and accidentally pressing a button could set the bomb off too early.



* The events of the first season of ''Anime/{{K}}'' were a plan of this sort from the Green King. Really, being the King of Chaos, he might not have cared ''what'' happened - his main goal was [[spoiler: drawing the Silver King out from hiding]] - but he seems to have put enough faith in the Silver King to know that he would come out on top after all of this - and considering that the Silver King has been ''alone in an airship with no contact with anyone for seventy years'', and that he does [[NighInvulnerable nearly]] get himself killed in solving it, that is a lot of faith to put in him.

to:

* The events of the first season of ''Anime/{{K}}'' were a plan of this sort from the Green King. Really, being the King of Chaos, he might not have cared ''what'' happened - his main goal was [[spoiler: drawing [[spoiler:drawing the Silver King out from hiding]] - but he seems to have put enough faith in the Silver King to know that he would come out on top after all of this - and considering that the Silver King has been ''alone in an airship with no contact with anyone for seventy years'', and that he does [[NighInvulnerable nearly]] get himself killed in solving it, that is a lot of faith to put in him.



* In ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' Madara Uchiha reveals the truth behind [[spoiler: Obito Uchiha becoming the BigBad. Obito's FaceHeelTurn was originally after his childhood crush Rin Nohara died when she was abducted by the Hidden Mist. All of the abductors were being mind-controlled by Madara and Rin herself had seal on her heart in order to she couldn't kill herself so Obito had to watch her be murdered not knowing she likely chose it. The entire thing was planned to destroy Obito's idealism and turn him evil. The fact that Rin committed suicide via Kakashi was a happy coincidence.]]

to:

* In ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' Madara Uchiha reveals the truth behind [[spoiler: Obito [[spoiler:Obito Uchiha becoming the BigBad. Obito's FaceHeelTurn was originally after his childhood crush Rin Nohara died when she was abducted by the Hidden Mist. All of the abductors were being mind-controlled by Madara and Rin herself had seal on her heart in order to she couldn't kill herself so Obito had to watch her be murdered not knowing she likely chose it. The entire thing was planned to destroy Obito's idealism and turn him evil. The fact that Rin committed suicide via Kakashi was a happy coincidence.]]



** While the two major [[TheChessmaster players]] of the game, SEELE and Gendo had private, secret agendas which ultimately failed, everything occurred just as planned by a very hidden player, [[spoiler: Yui Ikari.]] [[MindScrew Maybe.]]

to:

** While the two major [[TheChessmaster players]] of the game, SEELE and Gendo had private, secret agendas which ultimately failed, everything occurred just as planned by a very hidden player, [[spoiler: Yui [[spoiler:Yui Ikari.]] [[MindScrew Maybe.]]



* The overarching plan Blackbeard concocts in ''Manga/OnePiece'' borders between this and XanatosSpeedChess. While there are a number of elements to his plan that rely largely on chance, they're mitigated by how either Blackbeard put himself in the best position to succeed, or the chance occurrence simply made things easier rather than being absolutely critical. For example, the start of his plot hinges on Blackbeard finding a [[GravityMaster very specific]] [[PowerupFood Devil Fruit]], when finding ''any'' Devil Fruit at all is an exceedingly rare occurrence; to deal with this, Blackbeard joins [[WorldsStrongestMan Whitebeard's]] pirate crew, realizing that he stood the best chance of finding the single fruit he wanted there. Later on, [[spoiler: Blackbeard plans on breaking out several of the most dangerous criminals of [[TheAlcatraz Impel Down]]. To even aproach the prison he has to gain favour with the government, which he plans to do by beating a high bounty-head, and delivering said person to the government. He decides on Luffy, as he was at the time worth 100.000.000, beat a Shichibukai and was relatively close. Luffy barely escapes, and Ace later catches up with Blackbeard (BB killed a crewmate to get the fruit, Ace got pissed) and after a fight Ace takes Luffy's place as a prisoner. At the prison he happens to arrive just as [[TheHero Luffy]], who had broken into the same prison earlier in order [[RescueArc to rescue his brother]], has begun his efforts to break back out alongside several allies he had made along the way, which makes things much easier for Blackbeard.]] This is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] by how Blackbeard and his crew often talk about the role of fate in their plans, as if recognizing that the [[YouCantThwartStageOne plot will allow their plans to succeed eventually.]] Blackbeard himself admits to Sengoku that his plan hit a snag here and there, but overall it worked out as planned.

to:

* The overarching plan Blackbeard concocts in ''Manga/OnePiece'' borders between this and XanatosSpeedChess. While there are a number of elements to his plan that rely largely on chance, they're mitigated by how either Blackbeard put himself in the best position to succeed, or the chance occurrence simply made things easier rather than being absolutely critical. For example, the start of his plot hinges on Blackbeard finding a [[GravityMaster very specific]] [[PowerupFood Devil Fruit]], when finding ''any'' Devil Fruit at all is an exceedingly rare occurrence; to deal with this, Blackbeard joins [[WorldsStrongestMan Whitebeard's]] pirate crew, realizing that he stood the best chance of finding the single fruit he wanted there. Later on, [[spoiler: Blackbeard [[spoiler:Blackbeard plans on breaking out several of the most dangerous criminals of [[TheAlcatraz Impel Down]]. To even aproach the prison he has to gain favour with the government, which he plans to do by beating a high bounty-head, and delivering said person to the government. He decides on Luffy, as he was at the time worth 100.000.000, beat a Shichibukai and was relatively close. Luffy barely escapes, and Ace later catches up with Blackbeard (BB killed a crewmate to get the fruit, Ace got pissed) and after a fight Ace takes Luffy's place as a prisoner. At the prison he happens to arrive just as [[TheHero Luffy]], who had broken into the same prison earlier in order [[RescueArc to rescue his brother]], has begun his efforts to break back out alongside several allies he had made along the way, which makes things much easier for Blackbeard.]] This is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] by how Blackbeard and his crew often talk about the role of fate in their plans, as if recognizing that the [[YouCantThwartStageOne plot will allow their plans to succeed eventually.]] Blackbeard himself admits to Sengoku that his plan hit a snag here and there, but overall it worked out as planned.



* ''Fanfic/DeathNoteEquestria'' has one, of which Twilight's MemoryGambit is just one component. And she pulls it off masterfully, getting everything she wanted -- [[spoiler: L and Mer dead, her own name cleared as Kira, and putting herself in prime position to [[RunningBothSides take control of the investigation]].]]

to:

* ''Fanfic/DeathNoteEquestria'' has one, of which Twilight's MemoryGambit is just one component. And she pulls it off masterfully, getting everything she wanted -- [[spoiler: L [[spoiler:L and Mer dead, her own name cleared as Kira, and putting herself in prime position to [[RunningBothSides take control of the investigation]].]]



* In ''Fanfic/DiariesOfAMadman'', Discord is bored. Very, very bored. He's been alive for millions of years because, as a spirit of chaos, he can't actually ''die'' while there are still sophonts on the planet, and he can't kill them directly because that would be in service to order. So he brings into existence [[spoiler: a copy of]] the one person who can potentially kill him for good, and ultimately [[spoiler: [[NiceJobFixingItVillain breaks his own plan]] by sending Nav into the past. The StableTimeLoop he creates causes him to weep for the first time in aeons.]] This is an InvertedTrope: the villain set things up so that all roads he could predict led to victory, but he just happened to land the ball on the 00. Everything ''else'' he does, however, is pretty much a GambitRoulette.

to:

* In ''Fanfic/DiariesOfAMadman'', Discord is bored. Very, very bored. He's been alive for millions of years because, as a spirit of chaos, he can't actually ''die'' while there are still sophonts on the planet, and he can't kill them directly because that would be in service to order. So he brings into existence [[spoiler: a [[spoiler:a copy of]] the one person who can potentially kill him for good, and ultimately [[spoiler: [[NiceJobFixingItVillain [[spoiler:[[NiceJobFixingItVillain breaks his own plan]] by sending Nav into the past. The StableTimeLoop he creates causes him to weep for the first time in aeons.]] This is an InvertedTrope: the villain set things up so that all roads he could predict led to victory, but he just happened to land the ball on the 00. Everything ''else'' he does, however, is pretty much a GambitRoulette.



* In ''Film/SherlockHolmes2009'', Lord Blackwood's plan to kill Ambassador Standish would have failed if it hadn't been raining that day (since it required that Standish be [[spoiler: doused in oil without realizing it]]), or if Standish had chosen not to kill Blackwood that day, or not to do so with the booby-trapped gun.

to:

* In ''Film/SherlockHolmes2009'', Lord Blackwood's plan to kill Ambassador Standish would have failed if it hadn't been raining that day (since it required that Standish be [[spoiler: doused [[spoiler:doused in oil without realizing it]]), or if Standish had chosen not to kill Blackwood that day, or not to do so with the booby-trapped gun.



** His goal is very simple: [[spoiler: obtain proof the Winter Soldier killed Tony Stark's parents by any means possible, show Tony, cause internal strife and watch the Avengers fall apart as Steve and Tony fight. This simplicity allows him to both compensate when the plan doesn't turn out perfectly (like when the HYDRA agent refuses to give him information prompting him to go alternate route via Bucky) and take advantage of existing circumstances (he had nothing to do with the Sokovia Accords and just used it for distraction).]]
** Despite this, actual implementation of the plan comes dangerously close to GambitRoulette. [[spoiler: Fortunately for Zemo, Sokovia Accords, an event that divided Avengers in two camps and greatly boosted tensions between Tony and Steve just had to happen at the time when he was going to cause that tension himself. Also, it happened right at the moment when Tony developed depression caused by combination of guilt over his actions in ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron,'' breakup with Pepper and reliving last memory of his parents as part of a science project. If either of these factors were not present, consequences of revealing the information to Tony would be ''far'' less severe and if neither happened, Tony and Steve could just talk it through. Instead, pretty much all unrelated events in the movie make Zemo's task far easier to accomplish.]]

to:

** His goal is very simple: [[spoiler: obtain [[spoiler:obtain proof the Winter Soldier killed Tony Stark's parents by any means possible, show Tony, cause internal strife and watch the Avengers fall apart as Steve and Tony fight. This simplicity allows him to both compensate when the plan doesn't turn out perfectly (like when the HYDRA agent refuses to give him information prompting him to go alternate route via Bucky) and take advantage of existing circumstances (he had nothing to do with the Sokovia Accords and just used it for distraction).]]
** Despite this, actual implementation of the plan comes dangerously close to GambitRoulette. [[spoiler: Fortunately [[spoiler:Fortunately for Zemo, Sokovia Accords, an event that divided Avengers in two camps and greatly boosted tensions between Tony and Steve just had to happen at the time when he was going to cause that tension himself. Also, it happened right at the moment when Tony developed depression caused by combination of guilt over his actions in ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron,'' breakup with Pepper and reliving last memory of his parents as part of a science project. If either of these factors were not present, consequences of revealing the information to Tony would be ''far'' less severe and if neither happened, Tony and Steve could just talk it through. Instead, pretty much all unrelated events in the movie make Zemo's task far easier to accomplish.]]



* The Demon King in Kylie Chan's ''Literature/DarkHeavens'' trilogy has one of these running from well before the beginning of the series, encompassing most of the characters in the series. The full extent of his game is revealed around the eighth book, by which point parts of it have started to go off the rails. By contrast, the Jade Emperor does this all the time for even the littlest things, just so that he can be both apparently LawfulStupid and still an effective leader. [[spoiler: The latter doesn't ''appear'' to be involved in defeating the former.]]

to:

* The Demon King in Kylie Chan's ''Literature/DarkHeavens'' trilogy has one of these running from well before the beginning of the series, encompassing most of the characters in the series. The full extent of his game is revealed around the eighth book, by which point parts of it have started to go off the rails. By contrast, the Jade Emperor does this all the time for even the littlest things, just so that he can be both apparently LawfulStupid and still an effective leader. [[spoiler: The [[spoiler:The latter doesn't ''appear'' to be involved in defeating the former.]]



** Also in ''Deathly Hallows'', Dumbledore's method of getting Harry to find the Hallows relies on random encounters - for example, Hermione only recognised the symbol in her book because she happened to meet Luna's dad at Fleur and Bill's wedding. The same goes for Harry finding out [[spoiler: he is a Horcrux]]; if he hadn't been there when [[spoiler: Snape died]] he would never have [[spoiler: made his HeroicSacrifice and Voldemort would've stayed immortal]]. To be fair, [[spoiler:Snape]] was supposed to tell Harry - that's why he asks that Voldemort send him into Hogwarts during the Battle - but didn't do so in time. That is why he is scared when [[spoiler:Voldemort tells him that he is going to kill him]] - he thinks he has failed. No excuse for the symbol, though Dumbeldore [[HandWave handwaves]] it by mentioning that Hermione wouldn't rest until she knew what it meant, so he assumed she would work it out ''somehow'', just not necessarily from Xeno Lovegood.

to:

** Also in ''Deathly Hallows'', Dumbledore's method of getting Harry to find the Hallows relies on random encounters - for example, Hermione only recognised the symbol in her book because she happened to meet Luna's dad at Fleur and Bill's wedding. The same goes for Harry finding out [[spoiler: he [[spoiler:he is a Horcrux]]; if he hadn't been there when [[spoiler: Snape [[spoiler:Snape died]] he would never have [[spoiler: made [[spoiler:made his HeroicSacrifice and Voldemort would've stayed immortal]]. To be fair, [[spoiler:Snape]] was supposed to tell Harry - that's why he asks that Voldemort send him into Hogwarts during the Battle - but didn't do so in time. That is why he is scared when [[spoiler:Voldemort tells him that he is going to kill him]] - he thinks he has failed. No excuse for the symbol, though Dumbeldore [[HandWave handwaves]] it by mentioning that Hermione wouldn't rest until she knew what it meant, so he assumed she would work it out ''somehow'', just not necessarily from Xeno Lovegood.



** One of her ''simplest'' manipulations involves watering the lawn in front of the Acrobats' tent; when one of them left the tent, he slips on the wet grass, and angrily blames [[MonsterClown the pranksters in the Clown Division]]. He then steals a crate of fireworks to take revenge on the clowns, only to leave it by the Circus Funhouse, where one of the local dwarfs uses it as a target in a cigar-flicking game: the resulting explosion takes out half the funhouse, and forces the management to start relying on Shalice for help again. [[spoiler: Or at least, it ''should'' have.]]

to:

** One of her ''simplest'' manipulations involves watering the lawn in front of the Acrobats' tent; when one of them left the tent, he slips on the wet grass, and angrily blames [[MonsterClown the pranksters in the Clown Division]]. He then steals a crate of fireworks to take revenge on the clowns, only to leave it by the Circus Funhouse, where one of the local dwarfs uses it as a target in a cigar-flicking game: the resulting explosion takes out half the funhouse, and forces the management to start relying on Shalice for help again. [[spoiler: Or [[spoiler:Or at least, it ''should'' have.]]



** A similar plot was hatched in ''Literature/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic''. More accurately, its sequel, which proposed that Revan's "fall" to the Dark Side and his subsequent conquering of the Republic (carefully leaving intact key positions and structures) was just to prepare for the coming of the "true Sith" lurking outside the galaxy, making Revan a WellIntentionedExtremist. This was all from the perspective of Revan's teacher, so take it with a grain of salt. Though even if you think Revan was just flat-out evil, this theory has some merit: you can't exactly conquer the galaxy if a bunch of crazy "true Sith" destroy it. This was canonized by the MMO, with the added twist that the Sith Emperor thought Revan was working for him. He later joined up with the Exile from the second game to launch a first strike against the Emperor, which bought the Republic a few centuries. [[spoiler: ''Shadow of Revan'' reveals that this rapid changing of sides literally broke his soul.]]
** ''ComicBook/XWingSeries'' has a subversion: When [[spoiler: Corran Horn]] shows up with information that can exonerate [[spoiler: Tycho Celchu]] the prosecutor tries to argue that he is an Imperial plant. This is however summarily thrown out by the judge, who points out for that to be true, the Imperials would have had to have information they could not have had in the relevant timeframe, and would be a sign of near perfect precognition.

to:

** A similar plot was hatched in ''Literature/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic''. More accurately, its sequel, which proposed that Revan's "fall" to the Dark Side and his subsequent conquering of the Republic (carefully leaving intact key positions and structures) was just to prepare for the coming of the "true Sith" lurking outside the galaxy, making Revan a WellIntentionedExtremist. This was all from the perspective of Revan's teacher, so take it with a grain of salt. Though even if you think Revan was just flat-out evil, this theory has some merit: you can't exactly conquer the galaxy if a bunch of crazy "true Sith" destroy it. This was canonized by the MMO, with the added twist that the Sith Emperor thought Revan was working for him. He later joined up with the Exile from the second game to launch a first strike against the Emperor, which bought the Republic a few centuries. [[spoiler: ''Shadow [[spoiler:''Shadow of Revan'' reveals that this rapid changing of sides literally broke his soul.]]
** ''ComicBook/XWingSeries'' has a subversion: When [[spoiler: Corran [[spoiler:Corran Horn]] shows up with information that can exonerate [[spoiler: Tycho [[spoiler:Tycho Celchu]] the prosecutor tries to argue that he is an Imperial plant. This is however summarily thrown out by the judge, who points out for that to be true, the Imperials would have had to have information they could not have had in the relevant timeframe, and would be a sign of near perfect precognition.



** This trope is taken to absurd levels in ''"The Final Problem"'' as we learn about the master plan of [[spoiler: Eurus]].
*** [[spoiler: Her plan to destroy Sherlock is critically dependent on help from Moriarty. In order to meet Jim, Eurus needs to convince Mycroft to arrange a meeting for the two [[EvilGenius evil geniuses]]. This part of the plan requires Mycroft, who is phenomenally smart and is deeply caring about Sherlock, to [[PlotInducedStupidity act very dumb]] for no good reason and to allow an unsupervised meeting between two extremely dangerously psychotic and intelligent criminals, ''[[CardCarryingVillain who are not hiding their intentions to harm his brother]]''. If Mycroft refused, she would've lost her only chance to do anything outside her prison cell for the rest of her life. This highly improbable scenario works in the actual episode because plot needs to move.]]
*** [[spoiler: Ironically, one of the largest gambles and risks for her plan was highly unpredictable and unreliable [[PsychopathicManchild Moriarty]] himself. In ''"The Reichenbach Fall"'' Moriarty went full force against Sherlock and was willing to see his nemesis die, which, for obvious reasons, could cancel out plan of Eurus entirely. She also needed ''Moriarty'' to [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness die]] himself and get out of the picture with absolutely no guarantees that any of these events would happen as predicted. In fact, Moriarty seemed content with continuing his games with "ordinary" people. Her whole plan hinged on highly specific outcomes, typical of any GambitRoulette plans, while for Moriarty postmortem game was just an entertaining ''alternative'' option in his grandiose XanatosGambit.]]
*** [[spoiler: Eurus had to be able to somehow discretely and completely [[CompellingVoice brainwash]] all the prison staff without Mycroft or any other top government agent noticing; ''hope'' that Sherlock survives dismantling Moriarty’s network; ''hope'' that he survives a terror attack plot; ''hope'' that his confrontation with extremely dangerous [[TheChessmaster Magnussen]] would not end with Sherlock being destroyed; [[HollywoodHacking hack]] the telecommunication system of Great Britain to distribute Moriarty’s message ''[[ClockKing at the perfectly calculated time]]'' without anyone noticing; leave prison; reconstruct Musgrave estate without Mycroft noticing; seduce John “the Family Man” Watson and ''hope again'' that Sherlock would not see through her disguise as Culverton Smith’s daughter. In each instance chance of failure was as high as it gets with her plan critically requiring British authorities, as well as her supergenius brothers, to be extremely incompetent for no reason whatsoever.]]
*** [[spoiler: In ''"The Final Problem"'' itself her plan required Sherlock, John and Mycroft to [[NoOneShouldSurviveThat survive a grenade explosion at close range]] and infiltrate the [[TheAlcatraz highest security island prison]] with a ''very'' high chance of someone being killed or arrested in the process. In the prison, her whole plan hinges entirely on Sherlock, master of SherlockScan, not noticing the ''lack of glass''. Later trials absolutely required her brothers to suddenly get [[TheWorfEffect dumbed down]] and play by her rules without any [[IndyPloy improvisations]] or [[TakeAThirdOption creative solutions]] or even recognizing Eurus as little girl impersonator. Of course her initial plan does fall apart the moment Sherlock just ignores her rules.]]

to:

** This trope is taken to absurd levels in ''"The Final Problem"'' as we learn about the master plan of [[spoiler: Eurus]].[[spoiler:Eurus]].
*** [[spoiler: Her [[spoiler:Her plan to destroy Sherlock is critically dependent on help from Moriarty. In order to meet Jim, Eurus needs to convince Mycroft to arrange a meeting for the two [[EvilGenius evil geniuses]]. This part of the plan requires Mycroft, who is phenomenally smart and is deeply caring about Sherlock, to [[PlotInducedStupidity act very dumb]] for no good reason and to allow an unsupervised meeting between two extremely dangerously psychotic and intelligent criminals, ''[[CardCarryingVillain who are not hiding their intentions to harm his brother]]''. If Mycroft refused, she would've lost her only chance to do anything outside her prison cell for the rest of her life. This highly improbable scenario works in the actual episode because plot needs to move.]]
*** [[spoiler: Ironically, [[spoiler:Ironically, one of the largest gambles and risks for her plan was highly unpredictable and unreliable [[PsychopathicManchild Moriarty]] himself. In ''"The Reichenbach Fall"'' Moriarty went full force against Sherlock and was willing to see his nemesis die, which, for obvious reasons, could cancel out plan of Eurus entirely. She also needed ''Moriarty'' to [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness die]] himself and get out of the picture with absolutely no guarantees that any of these events would happen as predicted. In fact, Moriarty seemed content with continuing his games with "ordinary" people. Her whole plan hinged on highly specific outcomes, typical of any GambitRoulette plans, while for Moriarty postmortem game was just an entertaining ''alternative'' option in his grandiose XanatosGambit.]]
*** [[spoiler: Eurus [[spoiler:Eurus had to be able to somehow discretely and completely [[CompellingVoice brainwash]] all the prison staff without Mycroft or any other top government agent noticing; ''hope'' that Sherlock survives dismantling Moriarty’s network; ''hope'' that he survives a terror attack plot; ''hope'' that his confrontation with extremely dangerous [[TheChessmaster Magnussen]] would not end with Sherlock being destroyed; [[HollywoodHacking hack]] the telecommunication system of Great Britain to distribute Moriarty’s message ''[[ClockKing at the perfectly calculated time]]'' without anyone noticing; leave prison; reconstruct Musgrave estate without Mycroft noticing; seduce John “the Family Man” Watson and ''hope again'' that Sherlock would not see through her disguise as Culverton Smith’s daughter. In each instance chance of failure was as high as it gets with her plan critically requiring British authorities, as well as her supergenius brothers, to be extremely incompetent for no reason whatsoever.]]
*** [[spoiler: In [[spoiler:In ''"The Final Problem"'' itself her plan required Sherlock, John and Mycroft to [[NoOneShouldSurviveThat survive a grenade explosion at close range]] and infiltrate the [[TheAlcatraz highest security island prison]] with a ''very'' high chance of someone being killed or arrested in the process. In the prison, her whole plan hinges entirely on Sherlock, master of SherlockScan, not noticing the ''lack of glass''. Later trials absolutely required her brothers to suddenly get [[TheWorfEffect dumbed down]] and play by her rules without any [[IndyPloy improvisations]] or [[TakeAThirdOption creative solutions]] or even recognizing Eurus as little girl impersonator. Of course her initial plan does fall apart the moment Sherlock just ignores her rules.]]



** [[spoiler: [[Characters/SuperRobotWarsAlpha Euzeth Gozzo]]]] in the ''2nd Original Generation'' applies as well. [[spoiler:Sure, he had plenty of backups to his plan, but even he admits that a huge part of why his plan pulled off as well as it did was by a large amount of chance]].

to:

** [[spoiler: [[Characters/SuperRobotWarsAlpha [[spoiler:[[Characters/SuperRobotWarsAlpha Euzeth Gozzo]]]] in the ''2nd Original Generation'' applies as well. [[spoiler:Sure, he had plenty of backups to his plan, but even he admits that a huge part of why his plan pulled off as well as it did was by a large amount of chance]].



* In ''VisualNovel/NineHoursNinePersonsNineDoors'' [[BigBad Zero's]] plan included: Seven coming up with code names for everyone [[{{Irony}} so Zero wouldn't know their identities]], Lotus randomly talking about some crazy theory she just came up with and she herself didn't take seriously, so she'd mention prosopagnosia to Junpei or Ace entering the room when Junpei and Clover had conversation about[[spoiler: the first Nonary Game]] ''just'' as Clover was about to say[[spoiler: the name of girl who died back then.]] Any of these events not happening would've put Zero's plan in tight spot.[[spoiler: Justified as Zero had glimpse in the future nine years before game events so she ''could'' have known this would happen.]]

to:

* In ''VisualNovel/NineHoursNinePersonsNineDoors'' [[BigBad Zero's]] plan included: Seven coming up with code names for everyone [[{{Irony}} so Zero wouldn't know their identities]], Lotus randomly talking about some crazy theory she just came up with and she herself didn't take seriously, so she'd mention prosopagnosia to Junpei or Ace entering the room when Junpei and Clover had conversation about[[spoiler: the about[[spoiler:the first Nonary Game]] ''just'' as Clover was about to say[[spoiler: the say[[spoiler:the name of girl who died back then.]] Any of these events not happening would've put Zero's plan in tight spot.[[spoiler: Justified [[spoiler:Justified as Zero had glimpse in the future nine years before game events so she ''could'' have known this would happen.]]



* ''VisualNovel/SuperDanganRonpa2'' has Nagito Komaeda come to the conclusion that there is a spy in the midst of the trapped party, and, in order to out the spy to the others [[spoiler: orchestrates an elaborate ThanatosGambit involving him committing suicide in such a way that the spy would inadvertently finish him off, and thus get tried for killing him. How does he guarantee that the spy would be the one to do it? He doesn't, instead relying on his [[BornLucky Ultimate Good Luck]] that of all the people who stumbled on his body, the spy would be the one to finish him off without even realizing it. ''It works''.]]

to:

* ''VisualNovel/SuperDanganRonpa2'' has Nagito Komaeda come to the conclusion that there is a spy in the midst of the trapped party, and, in order to out the spy to the others [[spoiler: orchestrates [[spoiler:orchestrates an elaborate ThanatosGambit involving him committing suicide in such a way that the spy would inadvertently finish him off, and thus get tried for killing him. How does he guarantee that the spy would be the one to do it? He doesn't, instead relying on his [[BornLucky Ultimate Good Luck]] that of all the people who stumbled on his body, the spy would be the one to finish him off without even realizing it. ''It works''.]]



* ''Webcomic/{{Homestuck}}'': [[spoiler: Doc Scratch and Lord English]]'s master plan takes this to truly absurd extremes. Being omniscient time travellers in a multiverse where YouCantFightFate probably helps, though. Their plan actually has no possible way of being up to chance. The two of them have tied themselves and their/the universe's existence into their plan through a mind-bending series of stable time loops. If any deviation from the timeline that they have created occurs, then somewhere along the line, an event that should/shouldn't occur doesn't/does happen, an action is or isn't taken, a mistake is or isn't made, and the timeline is doomed by the paradox. The story just follows the Alpha timeline where everything goes to plan because it would be boring to sit through all of the possible ways they could screw up. They show what happens when a deviation is made, anyway.

to:

* ''Webcomic/{{Homestuck}}'': [[spoiler: Doc [[spoiler:Doc Scratch and Lord English]]'s master plan takes this to truly absurd extremes. Being omniscient time travellers in a multiverse where YouCantFightFate probably helps, though. Their plan actually has no possible way of being up to chance. The two of them have tied themselves and their/the universe's existence into their plan through a mind-bending series of stable time loops. If any deviation from the timeline that they have created occurs, then somewhere along the line, an event that should/shouldn't occur doesn't/does happen, an action is or isn't taken, a mistake is or isn't made, and the timeline is doomed by the paradox. The story just follows the Alpha timeline where everything goes to plan because it would be boring to sit through all of the possible ways they could screw up. They show what happens when a deviation is made, anyway.



* In the fifth season of ''WesternAnimation/TeenageMutantNinjaTurtles2003'', it was revealed that every event in the series until then -- the Shredder's rise to power, Hamato Yoshi's death, the creation of the turtles, etc. -- had all been allowed to occur as part of a plan to [[spoiler: kill the demon Shredder]].

to:

* In the fifth season of ''WesternAnimation/TeenageMutantNinjaTurtles2003'', it was revealed that every event in the series until then -- the Shredder's rise to power, Hamato Yoshi's death, the creation of the turtles, etc. -- had all been allowed to occur as part of a plan to [[spoiler: kill [[spoiler:kill the demon Shredder]].



* Canaletto in ''WesternAnimation/ObanStarRacers'' [[spoiler: Arranged for the death of the mother of the right girl]] i.e. Eva, so that she would be emotionally scarred and chase after her father off-world. [[spoiler: Then he injured the main pilot to make her the only remaining pilot who would then would have to win a VERY competitive race, and relied on her prior emotional scarring so that she would reject the grand prize at the end and he could claim it for himself.]] Ironically, the only point at which he hits a bump is not when any one of these chance events fails but when [[spoiler: Sul]] changed the flow of destiny. The only thing that helps this go down easier is that he's implied to be able to see the future and manipulate certain events.

to:

* Canaletto in ''WesternAnimation/ObanStarRacers'' [[spoiler: Arranged [[spoiler:Arranged for the death of the mother of the right girl]] i.e. Eva, so that she would be emotionally scarred and chase after her father off-world. [[spoiler: Then [[spoiler:Then he injured the main pilot to make her the only remaining pilot who would then would have to win a VERY competitive race, and relied on her prior emotional scarring so that she would reject the grand prize at the end and he could claim it for himself.]] Ironically, the only point at which he hits a bump is not when any one of these chance events fails but when [[spoiler: Sul]] [[spoiler:Sul]] changed the flow of destiny. The only thing that helps this go down easier is that he's implied to be able to see the future and manipulate certain events.
13th Dec '17 11:30:25 AM MasterFuzzy
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Kronos in ''Literature/PercyJacksonAndTheOlympians'' earned his nickname, the Crooked One, for excelling at this. ''Whenever'' his plans are thwarted, he or one of his minions says something along the lines of "we planned it that way". While he's still rotting away in Tartarus, he assembles an army, brings a dead girl back to life, kidnaps a goddess, and plans an invasion. After finding a way to possess Luke's body, he becomes almost unstoppable and is barely defeated in the end. Apparently the one thing he didn't plan for was Luke regaining control of his body just in time, resulting in RedemptionEqualsDeath for Luke AndIMustScream for Kronos.

to:

* Kronos in ''Literature/PercyJacksonAndTheOlympians'' earned his nickname, the Crooked One, for excelling at this. ''Whenever'' his plans are thwarted, he or one of his minions says something along the lines of "we planned it that way". While he's still rotting away in Tartarus, he assembles an army, brings a dead girl back to life, kidnaps a goddess, and plans an invasion. After finding a way to possess Luke's body, he becomes almost unstoppable and is barely defeated in the end. Apparently the one thing he didn't plan for was Luke regaining control of his body just in time, resulting in RedemptionEqualsDeath for Luke AndIMustScream for Kronos. In fairness, however, a lot of what he does are either {{Batman Gambit}}s or {{Xanatos Gambit}}s: He plays on the good guys' ChronicHeroSyndrome, and some of his plans, like the quest for the Golden Fleece, would have worked out for him in any case.



** A similar plot was hatched in ''Literature/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic''. More accurately, its sequel, which proposed that Revan's "fall" to the Dark Side and his subsequent conquering of the Republic (carefully leaving intact key positions and structures) was just to prepare for the coming of the "true Sith" lurking outside the galaxy, making Revan a WellIntentionedExtremist. This was all from the perspective of Revan's teacher, so take it with a grain of salt. Though even if you think Revan was just flat-out evil, this theory has some merit: you can't exactly conquer the galaxy if a bunch of crazy "true sith" destroy it. This was canonized by the MMO, with the added twist that the Sith Emperor thought Revan was working for him. He later joined up with the Exile from the second game to launch a first strike against the Emperor, which bought the Republic a few centuries. [[spoiler: ''Shadow of Revan'' reveals that this rapid changing of sides literally broke his soul.]]

to:

** A similar plot was hatched in ''Literature/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic''. More accurately, its sequel, which proposed that Revan's "fall" to the Dark Side and his subsequent conquering of the Republic (carefully leaving intact key positions and structures) was just to prepare for the coming of the "true Sith" lurking outside the galaxy, making Revan a WellIntentionedExtremist. This was all from the perspective of Revan's teacher, so take it with a grain of salt. Though even if you think Revan was just flat-out evil, this theory has some merit: you can't exactly conquer the galaxy if a bunch of crazy "true sith" Sith" destroy it. This was canonized by the MMO, with the added twist that the Sith Emperor thought Revan was working for him. He later joined up with the Exile from the second game to launch a first strike against the Emperor, which bought the Republic a few centuries. [[spoiler: ''Shadow of Revan'' reveals that this rapid changing of sides literally broke his soul.]]



** Parodied neatly in the UsefulNotes/ComicRelief spoof, "[[Recap/DoctorWhoTheCurseOfFatalDeath The Curse of Fatal Death]]". The joke here is that the unexpected roulettes become so expected that it is funny when they stop happening. The basic idea is that each is using his time machine to bribe an architect to set a trap, or UNSET a trap. It is up on Website/YouTube, but unfortunately a direct link would result in them taking it down.

to:

** Parodied neatly in the UsefulNotes/ComicRelief spoof, "[[Recap/DoctorWhoTheCurseOfFatalDeath The Curse of Fatal Death]]". The joke here is that the unexpected roulettes become so expected that it is funny when they stop happening. The basic idea is that each is both the Doctor and the Master are using his their own time machine to bribe an architect to set a trap, or UNSET a trap. It is up on Website/YouTube, but unfortunately a direct link would result in them taking it down.
12th Dec '17 2:23:10 PM Epicazeroth
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** In ''Literature/TheIliad'', Zeus launches an incredibly complicated plan that involves manipulating gods and mortals alike to set off a war between Troy and the cities of Greece that kills thousands upon thousands of mortals. One of his two ultimate goals is to whittle down the surplus population of Earth so the earth goddess Gaia wouldn't send another monster after him, as she had done previously with Typhon and the Giants, and more particularly to destroy the many demigods he had fathered with various mortal women on all those occasions he had cuckolded Hera, to keep them from threatening his power.

to:

** In ''Literature/TheIliad'', Zeus launches an incredibly complicated plan that involves manipulating gods and mortals alike to set off a war between Troy and the cities of Greece that kills thousands upon thousands of mortals. One of his two ultimate goals is to whittle down the surplus population of Earth so the earth goddess Gaia wouldn't send another monster after him, as she had done previously with Typhon and the Giants, and more particularly to destroy the many demigods he had fathered with various mortal women on all those occasions he had cuckolded cheated on Hera, to keep them from threatening his power.
29th Nov '17 2:44:55 AM Oransel
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Zemo's master plan in ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' verges on a thin line between XanatosSpeedChess and this.
** Zemo’s goal is very simple: [[spoiler: obtain proof the Winter Soldier killed Tony Stark's parents by any means possible, show Tony, cause internal strife and watch the Avengers fall apart as Steve and Tony fight. This simplicity allows him to both compensate when the plan doesn't turn out perfectly (like when the HYDRA agent refuses to give him information prompting him to go alternate route via Bucky) and take advantage of existing circumstances (he had nothing to do with the Sokovia Accords and just used it for distraction).]]
** Despite this, actual implementation of the plan comes dangerously close to GambitRoulette. [[spoiler: Fortunately for Zemo, Sokovia Accords, an event that divided Avengers in two camps and greatly boosted tensions between Tony and Steve just had to happen at the time when he was going to cause that tension himself. Also, it happened right at the moment when Tony developed depression caused by combination of ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron,'' breakup with Pepper and reliving last memory of his parents as part of a science project. If either of these factors were not present, consequences of revealing the information to Tony would be ''far'' less severe and if neither happened, Tony and Steve could just talk it through. Instead, pretty much all unrelated events in the movie make his task far easier to accomplish.]]

to:

* Helmut Zemo's master plan in ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' verges on a thin line between XanatosSpeedChess and this.
** Zemo’s His goal is very simple: [[spoiler: obtain proof the Winter Soldier killed Tony Stark's parents by any means possible, show Tony, cause internal strife and watch the Avengers fall apart as Steve and Tony fight. This simplicity allows him to both compensate when the plan doesn't turn out perfectly (like when the HYDRA agent refuses to give him information prompting him to go alternate route via Bucky) and take advantage of existing circumstances (he had nothing to do with the Sokovia Accords and just used it for distraction).]]
** Despite this, actual implementation of the plan comes dangerously close to GambitRoulette. [[spoiler: Fortunately for Zemo, Sokovia Accords, an event that divided Avengers in two camps and greatly boosted tensions between Tony and Steve just had to happen at the time when he was going to cause that tension himself. Also, it happened right at the moment when Tony developed depression caused by combination of guilt over his actions in ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron,'' breakup with Pepper and reliving last memory of his parents as part of a science project. If either of these factors were not present, consequences of revealing the information to Tony would be ''far'' less severe and if neither happened, Tony and Steve could just talk it through. Instead, pretty much all unrelated events in the movie make his Zemo's task far easier to accomplish.]]
29th Nov '17 2:21:08 AM Oransel
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The final part of Zemo's master plan in ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' relies on a lot of chance. The whole thing would have fallen apart if...
## ComicBook/CaptainAmerica and ComicBook/{{Bucky|Barnes}} had captured Zemo before Comicbook/IronMan arrived.
## Iron Man had not figured out where Cap and Bucky were headed in the first place.
## Iron Man had not come alone, meaning there might have been someone to restrain him or talk him down after he learned the truth.
## ComicBook/BlackPanther had actually succeeded in killing Bucky during one of their ''three'' fights during the course of the film.
## Captain America actually told Iron Man that his parents' death were orchestrated by HYDRA.
## Iron Man and Captain America weren't at odds already due to being on opposite sides of the law.
## The battle at the airport had had an entirely different outcome (by the fight going differently or Iron Man's side being smart enough to simply destroy every plane in the place instead of fighting, letting Captain America with no means to escape).
## Captain America hadn't gotten hold of Ant-Man, or had actually gotten someone like Thor at his side. In general, if any of the teams had the scales severely tipped in their favor.
## The government was actually secure enough to know who they let inside for interrogations or to have armed people in place next to the interrogator for Bucky.
## Iron Man hadn't acted completely irrationally at the climax.
## Captain America had gotten ahold of Bucky before the death of King T'Chaka so he never got captured.
*** What's worse is that Zemo spends the majority of the movie searching for information, the details of which are left deliberately vague to avoid spoiling the twist near the end. So, apparently all of the information for which he is searching just happens to fit exactly into the gambit that he's already started?

to:

** The final part of * Zemo's master plan in ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' relies verges on a lot of chance. The whole thing would have fallen thin line between XanatosSpeedChess and this.
** Zemo’s goal is very simple: [[spoiler: obtain proof the Winter Soldier killed Tony Stark's parents by any means possible, show Tony, cause internal strife and watch the Avengers fall
apart if...
## ComicBook/CaptainAmerica
as Steve and ComicBook/{{Bucky|Barnes}} Tony fight. This simplicity allows him to both compensate when the plan doesn't turn out perfectly (like when the HYDRA agent refuses to give him information prompting him to go alternate route via Bucky) and take advantage of existing circumstances (he had captured Zemo before Comicbook/IronMan arrived.
## Iron Man had not figured out where Cap
nothing to do with the Sokovia Accords and Bucky were headed in the first place.
## Iron Man had not come alone, meaning there might have been someone to restrain him or talk him down after he learned the truth.
## ComicBook/BlackPanther had actually succeeded in killing Bucky during one of their ''three'' fights during the course
just used it for distraction).]]
** Despite this, actual implementation
of the film.
## Captain America actually told Iron Man
plan comes dangerously close to GambitRoulette. [[spoiler: Fortunately for Zemo, Sokovia Accords, an event that his parents' death were orchestrated by HYDRA.
## Iron Man
divided Avengers in two camps and Captain America weren't at odds already due greatly boosted tensions between Tony and Steve just had to being on opposite sides of the law.
## The battle
happen at the airport had had an entirely different outcome (by the fight time when he was going differently or Iron Man's side being smart enough to simply destroy every plane in the place instead of fighting, letting Captain America with no means to escape).
## Captain America hadn't gotten hold of Ant-Man, or had actually gotten someone like Thor at his side. In general, if any of the teams had the scales severely tipped in their favor.
## The government was actually secure enough to know who they let inside for interrogations or to have armed people in place next to the interrogator for Bucky.
## Iron Man hadn't acted completely irrationally
cause that tension himself. Also, it happened right at the climax.
## Captain America had gotten ahold
moment when Tony developed depression caused by combination of Bucky before the death ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron,'' breakup with Pepper and reliving last memory of King T'Chaka so he never got captured.
*** What's worse is that Zemo spends the majority
his parents as part of the movie searching for information, the details a science project. If either of which are left deliberately vague to avoid spoiling the twist near the end. So, apparently all these factors were not present, consequences of revealing the information for which he is searching to Tony would be ''far'' less severe and if neither happened, Tony and Steve could just happens to fit exactly into talk it through. Instead, pretty much all unrelated events in the gambit that he's already started?movie make his task far easier to accomplish.]]
22nd Nov '17 3:56:59 AM Ramidel
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The Demon King in Kylie Chan's ''Literature/DarkHeavens'' trilogy has one of these running from when he first meets Emma, although since a) it's implied that he was planning One Two Two's downfall even before Emma unexpectedly showed up, and b) he didn't expect her to outsmart him the first time he tried to manipulate her, it could also be considered that he starts off playing GambitSpeedChess which develops into a Roulette.

to:

* The Demon King in Kylie Chan's ''Literature/DarkHeavens'' trilogy has one of these running from when he first meets Emma, although since a) it's implied well before the beginning of the series, encompassing most of the characters in the series. The full extent of his game is revealed around the eighth book, by which point parts of it have started to go off the rails. By contrast, the Jade Emperor does this all the time for even the littlest things, just so that he was planning One Two Two's downfall even before Emma unexpectedly showed up, can be both apparently LawfulStupid and b) he didn't expect her still an effective leader. [[spoiler: The latter doesn't ''appear'' to outsmart him be involved in defeating the first time he tried to manipulate her, it could also be considered that he starts off playing GambitSpeedChess which develops into a Roulette.former.]]



** The book ''Literature/SmallFavor'' features a subversion. Harry considers the enemy's plot to be so complex it simply should not be possible, until Murphy points out that Harry really IS that predictable, and that the villains stood to gain by doing what they are doing, whether or not Harry acted as planned.

to:

** The book ''Literature/SmallFavor'' features a subversion. Harry considers the enemy's plot to be so complex it simply should not be possible, until Murphy points out that Harry really IS that predictable, and that [[XanatosGambit the villains stood to gain by doing what they are doing, whether or not Harry acted as planned.planned]].
This list shows the last 10 events of 710. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.GambitRoulette