History Main / ForcedLevelGrinding

9th Jan '18 2:05:54 AM Cryoclaste
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* ''[[PhantasyStar Phantasy Star IV]]'' had ''Money Grinding''. You can survive the next area just fine without too much level grinding, provided you can afford the ungodly expensive equipment. Oh, and the next town that's five minutes away has a better set of ungodly expensive equipment that you need to buy to survive.

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* ''[[PhantasyStar Phantasy Star IV]]'' ''VideoGame/PhantasyStarIV'' had ''Money Grinding''. You can survive the next area just fine without too much level grinding, provided you can afford the ungodly expensive equipment. Oh, and the next town that's five minutes away has a better set of ungodly expensive equipment that you need to buy to survive.



** ''Phantasy Star II'' on the other hand had '''loads''' of forced level grinding. To survive the first dungeon you probably had to grind at least 10 levels, as well as buy new weapons and armour. Not to mention that whenever a new character joined up, they started at level 1, so you '''had''' to grind if you actually wanted to use them. It's worse after [[spoiler:you lose Nei]] because it's likely you'll have to train someone else up from scratch to fill the fourth party space, who will more than likely get killed over and over by robots while you're leveling him/her.

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** ''Phantasy Star II'' ''VideoGame/PhantasyStarII'' on the other hand had '''loads''' of forced level grinding. To survive the first dungeon you probably had to grind at least 10 levels, as well as buy new weapons and armour. Not to mention that whenever a new character joined up, they started at level 1, so you '''had''' to grind if you actually wanted to use them. It's worse after [[spoiler:you lose Nei]] because it's likely you'll have to train someone else up from scratch to fill the fourth party space, who will more than likely get killed over and over by robots while you're leveling him/her.
30th Dec '17 5:36:01 AM Edvardelis
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* ''VideoGame/PhantasyStarNova'': while the original game doesn't really require you to grind (levels come fairly quickly up to level 100) the post game content starts at level 110 and the only way to go from 100 to 110 is to ''grind''.
26th Dec '17 8:28:24 PM Willbyr
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* Most ''Franchise/DragonBallZ'' [=RPG=]s for the NES are like this, but none as bad as the first one. You start the game with Goku and Piccolo at around 400 BP (Power Level) and you're going to fight the first boss Raditz at 1500 BP. First of all, this game takes the power levels seriously, meaning that an army of characters at 800 BP wouldn't even be able to touch him. Second of all, unlike other instances of this battle there won't be any miracles, penetrating Special Beam Cannons or Gohans around to save your hide, so unless your BP is around 1500 you don't stand a chance. The fastest way to increase your BP is by splitting up in two and fighting yourself in a normal battle, each netting you around 10 BP. Meaning that in order to stand a chance against the first boss, you need to fight ''100'' battles, ''200'' if you want Piccolo to become strong as well. And when you've beaten Radtiz? You lose both characters, get 5 new ones that you have to train all over for the next, even stronger boss. And if you know the original, you know that it NEVER GETS ANY EASIER.

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* Most ''Franchise/DragonBallZ'' ''Anime/DragonBallZ'' [=RPG=]s for the NES are like this, but none as bad as the first one. You start the game with Goku and Piccolo at around 400 BP (Power Level) and you're going to fight the first boss Raditz at 1500 BP. First of all, this game takes the power levels seriously, meaning that an army of characters at 800 BP wouldn't even be able to touch him. Second of all, unlike other instances of this battle there won't be any miracles, penetrating Special Beam Cannons or Gohans around to save your hide, so unless your BP is around 1500 you don't stand a chance. The fastest way to increase your BP is by splitting up in two and fighting yourself in a normal battle, each netting you around 10 BP. Meaning that in order to stand a chance against the first boss, you need to fight ''100'' battles, ''200'' if you want Piccolo to become strong as well. And when you've beaten Radtiz? You lose both characters, get 5 new ones that you have to train all over for the next, even stronger boss. And if you know the original, you know that it NEVER GETS ANY EASIER.
26th Dec '17 7:31:05 PM nombretomado
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** And the sequel to that, ''FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears'', gives you a choice: You can grind at the end of each chapter/Tale, to take on the utterly murderous [[BonusDungeon Challenge Dungeons]] for items and equipment, and hopefully reach the level cap for that chapter (generally level 40-50ish). OR, if you are impatient to advance the plot, you can import data for the first PointOfNoReturn[[note]]After importing data and starting the Crystals chapter, if you want to go back and do grinding/Challenge Dungeons, you will have to restart the Crystals chapter for the benefits to carry over[[/note]], and play through the first part, collecting party members, etc... and then, you will reach ''another'' PointOfNoReturn. Where you will be stuck [[spoiler:on the moon]], where even the easiest monsters will eat a party under level 40 for breakfast. If you weren't grinding for bonuses and HundredPercentCompletion before, you get to grind for survival now.

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** And the sequel to that, ''FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears'', ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyIVTheAfterYears'', gives you a choice: You can grind at the end of each chapter/Tale, to take on the utterly murderous [[BonusDungeon Challenge Dungeons]] for items and equipment, and hopefully reach the level cap for that chapter (generally level 40-50ish). OR, if you are impatient to advance the plot, you can import data for the first PointOfNoReturn[[note]]After importing data and starting the Crystals chapter, if you want to go back and do grinding/Challenge Dungeons, you will have to restart the Crystals chapter for the benefits to carry over[[/note]], and play through the first part, collecting party members, etc... and then, you will reach ''another'' PointOfNoReturn. Where you will be stuck [[spoiler:on the moon]], where even the easiest monsters will eat a party under level 40 for breakfast. If you weren't grinding for bonuses and HundredPercentCompletion before, you get to grind for survival now.
7th Dec '17 5:45:23 PM nombretomado
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* ''DefenseOfTheAncients'', where the first seven levels generally have to be ground up by staying in lane or the jungle before any effective team fighting can occur. There is the occasional Hero that can gank from level one, but that requires both personal skill and good, cooperative teammates. For carry Heroes, especially the hard carry lategamers, farming becomes nearly all of the game, which has made them less popular in recent versions where the {{Metagame}} has shifted to disadvantage them.

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* ''DefenseOfTheAncients'', ''VideoGame/DefenseOfTheAncients'', where the first seven levels generally have to be ground up by staying in lane or the jungle before any effective team fighting can occur. There is the occasional Hero that can gank from level one, but that requires both personal skill and good, cooperative teammates. For carry Heroes, especially the hard carry lategamers, farming becomes nearly all of the game, which has made them less popular in recent versions where the {{Metagame}} has shifted to disadvantage them.



** More pronounced in {{VideoGame/TotalWarWarhammer}} where all your heroes and all your lords have separate skill trees, and if you don't level up your lords, you'll likely miss some very important unlocks for them that make a huge difference when the fighting gets serious.

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** More pronounced in {{VideoGame/TotalWarWarhammer}} ''VideoGame/TotalWarWarhammer'' where all your heroes and all your lords have separate skill trees, and if you don't level up your lords, you'll likely miss some very important unlocks for them that make a huge difference when the fighting gets serious.
3rd Dec '17 9:57:28 AM nombretomado
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* ''The7thSaga'' for the Super NES is an infamous example. How much grinding is necessary differs from character to character (you could choose several beginning [=PCs=]), but gaining a few levels from town to town is absolutely necessary. In some areas it's possible to find monsters that one-shot you, leading to grinding 5 to 10 levels just to stand a chance..

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* ''The7thSaga'' ''VideoGame/The7thSaga'' for the Super NES is an infamous example. How much grinding is necessary differs from character to character (you could choose several beginning [=PCs=]), but gaining a few levels from town to town is absolutely necessary. In some areas it's possible to find monsters that one-shot you, leading to grinding 5 to 10 levels just to stand a chance..
4th Nov '17 12:26:51 PM bubby3
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Compare LevelGrinding, AntiGrinding, BeefGate, CashGate, FakeLongevity, and FakeDifficulty. Contrast LowLevelRun.

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Compare LevelGrinding, AntiGrinding, BeefGate, CashGate, FakeLongevity, and FakeDifficulty. Contrast AntiGrinding, LowLevelRun.
1st Nov '17 8:52:49 PM megamcduck
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* Most early {{Eastern RPG}}s were like this, it seems, but ''The7thSaga'' for the Super NES was quite possibly the worst. How much horrible grinding was necessary differed from character to character (you could choose several beginning [=PCs=]), but gaining a few levels from town to town was absolutely necessary. In a quite a few areas, you have to grind 5 to 10 levels just so new monsters won't one-shot you.
** This is actually due to a bug in the game, causing your stats to grow at something like 1/4 of the rate they're supposed to.
*** This may have actually been the developers being bastards, as the stat growths work properly in the Japanese version. In addition, almost every monster in the game had their stats increased in the US version of the game.
** To complicate it even further, you're one of a large group of adventurers all working on the same quest. If you grind ''too much'' (Level 42 to be specific), Valsu the cleric learns a GameBreaker healing spell that renders any fight with him completely {{Unwinnable}}. If he's a required fight, get ready to start again. On the bright side, you can make this work in your favor. Find an apprentice willing to join you, decline the offer, grind ten or so levels, then go back and take him/her up on the offer. Since their stats grow at the Japanese rate, they'll be [[DiscOneNuke massively overpowered for a while]].
** And let's not forget a certain story event that throws you into a completely different area with stronger random encounters than you've ever seen before. Once you cross the PointOfNoReturn, these enemies are the weakest you'll be seeing from that point on. In other words, you have to [[GuideDangIt know this is coming and]] ''[[NintendoHard grind in advance]]''. Otherwise, you're stuck in a world where you're too underleveled to kill anything, but that means you can't gain levels to get strong enough to kill things. In a word: {{Unwinnable}}.

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* Most early {{Eastern RPG}}s were like this, it seems, but ''The7thSaga'' for the Super NES was quite possibly the worst. is an infamous example. How much horrible grinding was is necessary differed differs from character to character (you could choose several beginning [=PCs=]), but gaining a few levels from town to town was is absolutely necessary. In a quite a few areas, you have some areas it's possible to grind find monsters that one-shot you, leading to grinding 5 to 10 levels just so new monsters won't one-shot you.
to stand a chance..
** This is actually due to In a bug in case of DifficultyByRegion, the game, causing your stats to grow at something like 1/4 of the rate they're supposed to.
*** This may have actually been the developers being bastards, as the
English version has lower stat growths work properly in than Elnard, the Japanese version. In addition, almost Elnard provides a increase to base stat gains for every monster in tenth level; e.g. a character who gains +3 to a stat per level will gain +4 per level from 11-20, +5 from 21-30, and so on. The 7th Saga sticks to base stat gains forever; a level 20 character has all stats 10 less than they should be, level 30 is 30 points under par, level 40 is 60 points under par, and so on...
** The 7th Saga ALSO increases
the game had stats of random encounters compared to Elnard. The localizers were deliberate about their stats increased in DifficultyByRegion.
** The game's story has you and 6 other Apprentices all competing at a common goal. Depending on
the US version circumstances you may have to fight one of the game.
** To complicate it even further, you're one of a large group of adventurers all working on
others, and they employ LevelScaling. The problem here is that enemy Apprentices ''keep their Elnard stat growths''. The more you level grind, the harder they become. AntiGrinding and ForcedLevelGrinding in the same quest. If you grind ''too much'' (Level 42 to be specific), game!
*** It's often said that TheMedic
Valsu the cleric becomes [[{{Unwinnable}} impossible to defeat]] at too high a level, but [[UrbanLegendOfZelda fortunately this is a myth]]. His ally version learns a GameBreaker healing spell called Elixir that renders any fight full-heals both HP ''and'' MP, but his enemy version can never cast this. That said, lack of Elixir will not stop the BadassPreacher from murdering you with him completely {{Unwinnable}}. If he's a required fight, get ready to start again. On the bright side, you can make this work in your favor. Find an apprentice willing to join you, decline the offer, grind ten or so levels, then go back his ''other'' healing, buffs, and take him/her up on the offer. Since their stats grow at the Japanese rate, they'll be [[DiscOneNuke massively overpowered for a while]].
ice magic.
** And let's not forget Lastly, there's a certain story event that throws you into a completely different area with stronger random encounters than you've ever seen before. Once you cross the PointOfNoReturn, these enemies are the weakest you'll be seeing from that point on. In other words, you have to [[GuideDangIt know this is coming and]] ''[[NintendoHard grind in advance]]''. Otherwise, you're stuck in a world an area where you're too underleveled to kill anything, but that means you can't gain levels to get strong enough to kill things. In a word: {{Unwinnable}}.
28th Sep '17 1:34:11 PM Heartlesswithaheart
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** ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'' averts this for the most part, but plays it straight if you want to even think of standing a chance against Lucifer. Your team will be around level 50 by the time you can fight him - which is also immediately before the final boss - and will be utterly crushed if you do so without grinding, since he's ''level 99'' and has three phases. His attack range is large to make up for the fact that he doesn't move, and he has a skill called Megidoladyne that hits your entire party on the map every so often. It also gets stronger with each casting, so it will eventually wipe you if you take too long. His final form reflects physical, meaning that if you decide to bring a party member that fights with that instead of a party of spellcasters, your damage will decrease, too. "Fortunately", you only need to grind to the mid 70s to be able to win with the proper strategies and demons, so it's not as awful as other bonus bosses in the series.
19th Sep '17 7:57:38 PM MagiMecha
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* This hit ''VideoGame/StarTrekOnline'' twice and it infuriated the player base:
** When the game first hit, the Klingon Defense Force was an ''unlockable'' faction that started off at Level 20... but held nothing else of value except for the missions that both sides could play and they were late game. It was initially lessened with the appearance of a set of KDF-centered missions and the Duty Officer System, but it wouldn't be fully fixed until the first Expansion Pack, ''Legacy of Romulus''.
** When the second Expansion Pack, ''Delta Rising'', was being tested, players discovered that Cryptic pulled this stunt ''again'', but for ''everybody''! Cryptic's idea was to prevent what happened with ''Legacy of Romulus'', where players tore through all the missions and had nothing else to do, by upping the amount of XP needed to earn to level up incredibly, with Cryptic telling players to not rush through the missions - play other things while you level up! Sadly, playing missions over again gave pittance in terms of XP gains, Duty Officer System missions rewarded pathetically and the PVE missions were made so much harder that players refused to go into them! A stopgap was discovered by players when one of the Sector Blocks had an unintended XP Boost and players grinded there, only for it to be taken away when too many people took advantage of it. Ultimately, it would be a change of hands with the Executive Producer to get things fixed with the leveling.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ForcedLevelGrinding