History Main / FlyNning

15th May '17 1:18:43 AM TheSinful
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** Justified with Kira's fighting style as his zanpakuto's power doubles the weight of anything it hits. Thus he hits his opponent's weapon repeatedly until it's too heavy to lift.
13th May '17 2:24:53 PM eedwardgrey3
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* Swordfights in ''Literature/TheWheelOfTime'' tend to follow the format of "swordform X meets swordform Y".


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* [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn36Pb8z3yI This video]] averts flynning alltogether.
12th Apr '17 4:56:25 PM Discar
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* ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'': Discussed. Dalinar scoffs at the idea of swordfights as romanticized dances, calling them "wrestling with weapons." The fight scenes bear this out; everyone does everything they can to survive, which often involves tackling your opponent and then stabbing them while they're confused. However, fights with Shardblades ''can'' be like a dance, with circling and testing and parrying. Justified because Shardblades are indestrubtible and impossibly lightweight. But even with Shardblades, dances like that are rare. Notably, only two of the ten Shardblade fighting styles teach parrying, and even they don't use it often.

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* ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'': Discussed. Dalinar scoffs at the idea of swordfights as romanticized dances, calling them "wrestling with weapons." The fight scenes bear this out; everyone does everything they can to survive, which often involves tackling your opponent and then stabbing them while they're confused. However, fights with Shardblades ''can'' be like a dance, with circling and testing and parrying. Justified because Shardblades are indestrubtible indestructible and impossibly lightweight. But even with Shardblades, dances like that are rare. Notably, only two of the ten Shardblade fighting styles teach parrying, and even they don't use it often.
12th Apr '17 4:52:40 PM Discar
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* ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'': Discussed. Dalinar scoffs at the idea of swordfights as romanticized dances, calling them "wrestling with weapons." The fight scenes bear this out; everyone does everything they can to survive, which often involves tackling your opponent and then stabbing him while they're confused. However, fights with Shardblades ''can'' be like a dance, with circling and testing and parrying. Justified because Shardblades are indestrubtible and impossibly lightweight. But even with Shardblades, dances like that are rare. Notably, only two of the ten Shardblade fighting styles teach parrying, and even they don't use it often.

to:

* ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'': Discussed. Dalinar scoffs at the idea of swordfights as romanticized dances, calling them "wrestling with weapons." The fight scenes bear this out; everyone does everything they can to survive, which often involves tackling your opponent and then stabbing him them while they're confused. However, fights with Shardblades ''can'' be like a dance, with circling and testing and parrying. Justified because Shardblades are indestrubtible and impossibly lightweight. But even with Shardblades, dances like that are rare. Notably, only two of the ten Shardblade fighting styles teach parrying, and even they don't use it often.
12th Apr '17 4:50:24 PM Discar
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Added DiffLines:

* ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'': Discussed. Dalinar scoffs at the idea of swordfights as romanticized dances, calling them "wrestling with weapons." The fight scenes bear this out; everyone does everything they can to survive, which often involves tackling your opponent and then stabbing him while they're confused. However, fights with Shardblades ''can'' be like a dance, with circling and testing and parrying. Justified because Shardblades are indestrubtible and impossibly lightweight. But even with Shardblades, dances like that are rare. Notably, only two of the ten Shardblade fighting styles teach parrying, and even they don't use it often.
7th Apr '17 4:00:19 PM modgethanc
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** The lightsaber battles from the original trilogy, dubbed "budget kendo" in some circles. The original idea behind the lightsabers was that they were difficult to handle, which limited their choreography to mostly slashes and parries. There were technical limitations involved as well as skill limitations. Every duel in the Original Trilogy involves Darth Vader. The Vader mask left David Prowse with such a restricted field of view that he had trouble even ''seeing'' the person he was dueling with, never mind trying to fight. The props themselves were also fragile, preventing the use of more aggressive and intense strikes.
** For the prequels', Creator/GeorgeLucas specifically stated that the battles of the original trilogy were fought by "old men, feeble cyborgs and young kids" and he wanted the prequels to highlight a more sophisticated fighting style. They are more technically impressive and faster paced, but still [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw use common tricks]] associated with flynning such as time-wasting flourishes, obviously not aiming strikes at their opponents, and keeping at too far a distance to hit each other. It's a bit more [[DownPlayedTrope downplayed]] compared to most other times this trope comes into play, however, as not only does [[AWizardDidIt the Force]] make all the more acrobatic, inefficient moves more applicable, most of the time the opposing duelists ''are'' aiming at each other, rather than eachother's blade. However, as a single lightsaber strike means certain amputation and/or death in most instances, lightsaber combat is based as much around countering your opponents moves as it is around quickly killing/ disarming the opponent.

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** The lightsaber battles from the original trilogy, dubbed "budget kendo" in some circles. The original idea behind the lightsabers was that they were difficult to handle, which limited their choreography to mostly slashes and parries. There were technical limitations involved as well as skill limitations. Every duel in the Original Trilogy involves Darth Vader. The In ''Film/ANewHope'', the Vader mask left actor David Prowse with such a restricted field of view that he had trouble even ''seeing'' the person he was dueling with, never mind trying to fight. The props themselves were also fragile, preventing the use of more aggressive and intense strikes.
strikes. For ''Film/TheEmpireStrikesBack'' and ''Film/ReturnOfTheJedi'', the fighting was done by fencer and choreographer Bob Anderson, who was much better at it, and the props were sturdier, but he still had difficulty seeing.
** For the prequels', Creator/GeorgeLucas specifically stated that the battles of the original trilogy were fought by "old men, feeble cyborgs and young kids" and he wanted the prequels to highlight a more sophisticated fighting style. They are more technically impressive and faster paced, but still [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw use common tricks]] associated with flynning such as time-wasting flourishes, obviously not aiming strikes at their opponents, and keeping at too far a distance to hit each other. It's a bit more [[DownPlayedTrope downplayed]] compared to most other times this trope comes into play, however, as not only does [[AWizardDidIt the Force]] make all the more acrobatic, inefficient moves more applicable, most of the time the opposing duelists ''are'' aiming at each other, rather than eachother's each other's blade. However, as a single lightsaber strike means certain amputation and/or death in most instances, lightsaber combat is based as much around countering your opponents moves as it is around quickly killing/ disarming the opponent.
6th Apr '17 12:39:51 PM TheBigBopper
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Flynning exists, in live-action at least, so that non-expert actors can put on an entertaining show without causing RealLife injuries. The first problem is that most actors can't fence, and most fencers can't act. Neither skill is something you can teach someone properly in a short amount of time, and acting ability is obviously necessary for any character with a significant number of lines, so most choreographers have try their best to teach actors how to ''pretend'' they can fight. Generally they learn the sequence of moves in a fight by rote memorization without a good understanding of the underlying principles behind it. There is usually not much time to rehearse fights before filming, and with the number of behind-the-scenes moving parts that go into filming it's not uncommon for some last-minute problem to make them throw out the choreography and fall back on improvisation. This leads into the second problem: most stage and screen fights are done without face protection, and the risk of accidents is compounded when everyone is an amateur. Actors make their living with their bodies, and any injury that forces them to take time off to recover or blemishes their appearance can be ruinous for their career. The more famous a star, the more expensive they are to insure, and both the insurance companies and the actors' managers will throw a fit if you let them do something too dangerous. There are stunt doubles for productions that can afford it, but with the amount of dialogue and acting that goes into these scenes there's only so much an impostor can get away with. With all of these things in mind, it's all too understandible that the choreographer would sacrifice realism in order to minimize the risk of injury. Awkward prop weapons and costumes can be hard to work with too, and sometimes an important actor has some injury or disability that has to be covered up with flynning.

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Flynning exists, in live-action at least, so that non-expert actors can put on an entertaining show without causing RealLife injuries. The first problem is that most actors can't fence, and most fencers can't act. Neither skill is something you can teach someone properly in a short amount of time, and audiences are generally better at detecting wooden acting ability is obviously necessary for any character with a significant number of lines, than unconvincing swordplay, so in most cases choreographers have try their best to teach actors people who already know how to act how to ''pretend'' they can fight. Generally they know how to fence. Usually the actors learn the sequence of moves in a fight by rote memorization without a good understanding of the underlying principles behind it. There is usually not much time to rehearse fights before filming, and with the number of behind-the-scenes moving parts that go into filming it's not uncommon for some last-minute problem to make them throw out the choreography and fall back on improvisation. This leads into the second problem: most stage and screen fights are done without face protection, and the risk of accidents is compounded when everyone is an amateur. Actors make their living with their bodies, and any injury that forces them to take time off to recover or blemishes their appearance can be ruinous for their career. The more famous a star, the more expensive they are to insure, and both the insurance companies and the actors' managers will throw a fit if you let them do something too dangerous. There are stunt doubles for productions that can afford it, but with the amount of dialogue and acting that goes into these scenes there's only so much an impostor can get away with. With all of these things in mind, it's all too understandible that the choreographer would sacrifice realism in order to minimize the risk of injury. Awkward prop weapons and costumes can be hard to work with too, and sometimes an important actor has some injury or disability that has to be covered up with flynning.
30th Mar '17 12:11:10 PM TheBigBopper
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* ''WesternAnimation/FamilyGuy'': The episode "Sibling Rivalry" contains an AffeccionateParody in which Stewie and his half-brother Bertram engage in a fierce rapier duel using the playground equipment to perform stunts straight out of the classic swashbuckling movies.

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* ''WesternAnimation/FamilyGuy'': The In the episode "Sibling Rivalry" contains an AffeccionateParody in which Rivalry", Stewie and his half-brother Bertram engage in a fierce an elaborate rapier duel that serves as an AffectionateParody of the swashbuckling movie, using the playground equipment to perform stunts straight out of the classic swashbuckling movies.stunts.
30th Mar '17 12:07:36 PM TheBigBopper
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* Stewie and his half-brother Bertram fight this way on the playground in an episode of ''WesternAnimation/FamilyGuy''.

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* ''WesternAnimation/FamilyGuy'': The episode "Sibling Rivalry" contains an AffeccionateParody in which Stewie and his half-brother Bertram fight this way on engage in a fierce rapier duel using the playground in an episode equipment to perform stunts straight out of ''WesternAnimation/FamilyGuy''.the classic swashbuckling movies.
30th Mar '17 12:01:22 PM TheBigBopper
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Another hallmark of this style is poor application of distance or measure; They will probably spend most of the time intentionally fighting at a distance just close enough so that they can clash their swords together at the center or tip of their blades, but not close enough to hit any body part except the other swordsman's hand or forearm. Alternately they might get way too close to each other for the length of weapon they are using, perhaps resulting in a BladeLock where they push against each other while glowering between the blades, and persist in using their long weapons at the point where in a real fight both parties would switch to daggers and grappling. The BladeLock may be broken by one fighter using a push, kick, or headbutt to knock his opponent off balance, but of course instead of rushing in for the kill he will take his time so that the other guy can recover his guard and keep fighting.

The other primary variety of unrealistic fencing (more popular in the Far East and modern works) is a preposterously overactive offense, typically consisting of [[EverythingsBetterWithSpinning 360 degree spins and somersaults]] that would leave the back wide open, combined with absurdly overshot slashes and swipes that would invite a quick, lethal interruption. These are mortal sins in real sword fighting, where the move that covers the least time and distance to the target has the advantage, and where you are supposed to always keep your weapon in a position to defend yourself from incoming attack while presenting a credible threat to your opponent, so that they cannot simply bum rush you while your guard is down. ExoticWeaponSupremacy will be in effect and DualWielding is fetishized as the mark of a superior fighter, often appearing in contexts such as Viking Age Europe where dual wielding was almost never practiced. Exotic weapons and dual wielding did actually exist in certain historical contexts, but even if they are depicted in he right time and place, [[ImprobableUseOfAWeapon don't expect to see them used with correct technique]].

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Another hallmark of this style is poor application of distance or measure; They will probably spend most of the time intentionally fighting at a distance just close enough so that they can clash their swords together at the center or tip of their blades, but not close enough to hit any body part except the other swordsman's hand or forearm. Alternately they might get way too close to each other for the length of weapon they are using, perhaps resulting in a BladeLock where they push against each other while glowering between the blades, and persist in using their long weapons at the point where in a real fight both parties would switch to daggers and grappling. The BladeLock may be broken by one fighter using a push, kick, or headbutt to knock his opponent off balance, but of course instead of rushing in for the kill he will take his time so that the other guy can recover his guard and keep fighting.

fighting. To keep the excitement up, and perhaps distract from the poor blade work, the characters may chase each other through all sorts of locations and environemntal perils as they fight, such as up and down marble staircases, across the tops of tables in a tavern, or along the narrow catwalks of a construction site or factory with NoOSHACompliance. By the end of it one may have the other cornered in a dead end or on the edge of a presipice, which either leads to the killing blow or the cornered party performing a major stunt like the ChandelierSwing to escape.

The other primary variety of unrealistic fencing (more popular in the Far East and modern works) is a preposterously overactive reckless offense, typically consisting of [[EverythingsBetterWithSpinning 360 degree spins and somersaults]] that would leave the back wide open, combined with absurdly overshot slashes and swipes that would invite a quick, lethal interruption. These are mortal sins in real sword fighting, where the move that covers the least time and distance to the target has the advantage, is most likely to hit, and where you are supposed to always keep your weapon in a position to defend yourself from incoming attack while presenting a credible threat to your opponent, so that they cannot simply bum rush you while through the hole in your guard is down.guard. ExoticWeaponSupremacy will be in effect and DualWielding is fetishized as the mark of a superior fighter, often appearing in contexts such as Viking Age Europe where dual wielding was almost never practiced. Exotic weapons and dual wielding did actually exist in certain historical contexts, but even if they are depicted in he right time and place, [[ImprobableUseOfAWeapon don't expect to see them used with correct technique]].



In theatrics, the endlessly looping exchange where two fighters take turns attacking and parrying is called "Pirate Halves": "pirate" because you see it so much in pirate movies, and "halves" because you're basically making a half-circle with your sword with each parry, meeting at the top and bottom of each arc (a similar move, "Pirate Fulls", is when you're making a 360° arc with each swing to meet at the bottom of each swing). Often in pirate and swashbuckling movies they wouldn't have the time (or the budget) to give everyone in the film sword fighting lessons, so they'd give some lessons to the lead actors, and tell all the extras in the background, "just do this."

This trope is named for the swashbuckler film star Creator/ErrolFlynn, whose movies were full of this kind of fighting. It is worth noting that, as some of the examples below illustrate, quite a number of his colleagues in early 20th century Hollywood actually ''were'' expert fencers, but rather than go for realistic fights they used their knowledge to produce something that [[RuleOfCool just looked cool]] instead.

While, as copiously noted above, Flynning doesn't have much in common with real fencing except for using swords, [[TropesAreNotBad stage combat is an art form in and of itself that is a) tremendously fun and b) tremendously fun to watch]]. Certified specialists can get up to absurdly high levels of skill, with enough acrobatics to make a gymnastics team jealous.

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In theatrics, the endlessly looping exchange where two fighters take turns attacking and parrying is called "Pirate Halves": "pirate" because you see it so much in pirate movies, and "halves" because you're basically making a half-circle with your sword with each parry, meeting at the top and bottom of each arc (a similar move, "Pirate Fulls", is when you're making a 360° arc with each swing to meet at the bottom of each swing). Often in pirate and swashbuckling movies they wouldn't have the time (or the budget) to give everyone in the film sword fighting lessons, so they'd give some lessons to the lead actors, and tell all the extras in the background, "just do this."

" The "Halves" refers to how you're basically making a half-circle with your sword with each parry, meeting at the top and bottom of each arc; a similar move, "Pirate Fulls", is when you're making a 360° arc with each swing to meet at the bottom of each swing).

This trope is named for the swashbuckler film star Creator/ErrolFlynn, whose who relied on it as the star of swashbuckling movies were full of this kind of fighting.such as ''Film/TheAdventuresOfRobinHood'' and ''Film/CaptainBlood''. It is worth noting that, as some of the examples below illustrate, quite a number of his colleagues in early 20th century Hollywood actually ''were'' expert fencers, but rather than go for realistic fights they used their knowledge to produce something that [[RuleOfCool just looked cool]] instead.

While, as copiously noted above, While Flynning doesn't have much in common with real fencing except for using swords, [[TropesAreNotBad stage combat is an [[TropesAreNotBad art form in and of itself itself]] that is a) tremendously fun and b) tremendously fun to watch]].watch. Certified specialists can get up to absurdly high levels of skill, with enough acrobatics to make a gymnastics team jealous.
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