History Main / FakeBalance

17th Oct '16 5:58:53 PM NoSpoilerz
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** EmptyLevels are a problem in basically every edition (except 4th, which gives everyone the same advancement for everything). LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards was in effect even in 1st Edition, where Fighters gained nothing from leveling besides incremental bonuses. One common common designer fix in the 3.5 era was to give the character utility class features whenever it seemed like they wouldn't get anything from their core abilities. In theory, this meant that the character would always have something to look forward to. In practice, this left some classes laden with disparate and near-useless class features that were so minor and situational that they frequently forgot them. The Monk was the worst offender by far; sure, you get something every level, but when that something is a once-per-day fourth-level spell or a once-per-''week'' OneHitKill attack that [[UselessUsefulSpell usually misses,]] why bother? (Exemplified by one {{Narm}}-tastic [[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a article]] on the Wizards of the Coast website, which claimed that "[[BlatantLies players always have something to look forward to with the Monk]]." On the other end of the power scale, the Sorcerer and Cleric get nothing for leveling up but advancement of their spells and familiar (for Sorcerer) and domains and TurnUndead (for Cleric). Since TurnUndead was [[GuideDangIt needlessly complex]], familiars were liabilities, and many domains didn't advance by levels, players would simply jump into a PrestigeClass that advanced casting and lose basically jack in the process. Some even used alternate class features that swapped out their familiar or Turn Undead, giving them literally no reason to ''not'' take a PrestigeClass. ''TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}}'' did its level best to rectify this by nerfing spellcasting some, cutting down on full-casting prestige classes, buffing many formerly-useless abilities, and redesigning many classes so their abilities ''always'' advanced by level. Sadly, as the problem is built into the game, it didn't work, though it did boost the power of the weaker classes... though they were still useless compared to casters.

to:

** EmptyLevels are a problem in basically every edition (except 4th, which gives everyone the same advancement for everything). LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards was in effect even in 1st Edition, where Fighters gained nothing from leveling besides incremental bonuses. One very common common designer fix reaction to this in the 3.5 era was to give the character utility class features whenever it seemed like they wouldn't get anything from their core abilities. In theory, this meant that the character would always have something to look forward to. In practice, this left some classes laden with disparate and near-useless class features that were so minor and situational that they frequently forgot them. The Monk was the worst offender by far; sure, you get something every level, but when that something is a once-per-day fourth-level spell or a once-per-''week'' OneHitKill attack that [[UselessUsefulSpell usually misses,]] why bother? (Exemplified by one {{Narm}}-tastic [[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a article]] on the Wizards of the Coast website, which claimed that "[[BlatantLies players always have something to look forward to with the Monk]]." On the other end of the power scale, the Sorcerer and Cleric get nothing for leveling up but advancement of their spells and familiar (for Sorcerer) and domains and TurnUndead (for Cleric). Since TurnUndead was [[GuideDangIt needlessly complex]], familiars were liabilities, and many domains didn't advance by levels, players would simply jump into a PrestigeClass that advanced casting and lose basically jack in the process. Some even used alternate class features that swapped out their familiar or Turn Undead, giving them literally no reason to ''not'' take a PrestigeClass. ''TabletopGame/{{Pathfinder}}'' did its level best to rectify this by nerfing spellcasting some, cutting down on full-casting prestige classes, buffing many formerly-useless abilities, and redesigning many classes so their abilities ''always'' advanced by level. Sadly, as the problem is built into the game, it didn't work, though it did boost the power of the weaker classes... though they were still useless compared to casters.
28th Sep '16 10:36:04 AM ArJayKay
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** In Hasta la Vista, [[NoItemUseForYou no one has weapons]]. The runners are on bicycles, running from hunters driving semi trucks. The runners have a head start, but that doesn't matter, because the trucks are actually faster, and the advanced mobility of the bikes barely makes a difference in that the hunters can simply steer to compensate.
23rd Sep '16 8:09:21 AM case
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Multiplayer in Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog has always been rather tricky when it comes to balance issues, but by far the worst example of this is [[LethalJokeCharacter Amy Rose]] in ''VideoGame/SonicAdventure2 Battle''. Amy's balancing in that game was that [[WeakButSkilled her raw athletic abilities were weaker than the others, but she was able to obtain and cast power-ups with every ten rings instead of twenty.]] While this is good on paper, the object placement in stages were based around racers using twenty rings. What this meant was that if Amy was able to launch even one attack, [[GameBreaker then she'll probably be able to stunlock her opponent into oblivion]] by being able to spam [[HeartBeatDown Storming Heart]] and [[InterfaceScrew Amy Flash]] at an alarming rate while removing her weak speed by spamming [[NitroBoost Speed Up.]] This is especially bad because Amy Flash, rather than being a TimeStandsStill power like Chaos Control and Time Stop, instead locks the player out of their controls, usually resulting in the poor victim being sent hurtling into a pit or being picked off by a robot, [[CycleOfHurting sent back to the previous checkpoint to wait out the rest of the the Amy Flash, all the while being repeatedly killed by Storming Hearts and getting trapped by another Amy Flash before they can even take another step if they're unlucky.]] The only racer with any kind of defense against this is Metal Sonic with his special attack deflecting Black Shield, but even that is rendered moot because he can't maintain a Black Shield while Amy Flash is in effect. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking and to top it all off]] all of this is accompanied by [[MostAnnoyingSound her endlessly shouting "Yeah!" in her overly-perky voice.]]

to:

* Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog
**
Multiplayer in Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog Sonic has always been rather tricky when it comes to balance issues, but by far the worst example of this is [[LethalJokeCharacter Amy Rose]] in ''VideoGame/SonicAdventure2 Battle''. Amy's balancing in that game was that [[WeakButSkilled her raw athletic abilities were weaker than the others, but she was able to obtain and cast power-ups with every ten rings instead of twenty.]] While this is good on paper, the object placement in stages were based around racers using twenty rings. What this meant was that if Amy was able to launch even one attack, [[GameBreaker then she'll probably be able to stunlock her opponent into oblivion]] by being able to spam [[HeartBeatDown Storming Heart]] and [[InterfaceScrew Amy Flash]] at an alarming rate while removing her weak speed by spamming [[NitroBoost Speed Up.]] This is especially bad because Amy Flash, rather than being a TimeStandsStill power like Chaos Control and Time Stop, instead locks the player out of their controls, usually resulting in the poor victim being sent hurtling into a pit or being picked off by a robot, [[CycleOfHurting sent back to the previous checkpoint to wait out the rest of the the Amy Flash, all the while being repeatedly killed by Storming Hearts and getting trapped by another Amy Flash before they can even take another step if they're unlucky.]] The only racer with any kind of defense against this is Metal Sonic with his special attack deflecting Black Shield, but even that is rendered moot because he can't maintain a Black Shield while Amy Flash is in effect. [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking and to top it all off]] all of this is accompanied by [[MostAnnoyingSound her endlessly shouting "Yeah!" in her overly-perky voice.]]]]
** The mobile game ''Sonic Dash 2: Sonic Boom'' has fake balance between the characters whose specials involve collecting rings. Sonic's power is to magnetize rings towards him when boost is activated, which may pick up around ten to twenty rings you wouldn't normally reach. Amy's power is to get five rings for every obstacle she smashes when boost is activated, which will conservatively earn twice as much even if you miss some obstacles, and she can be unlocked very early. Moreover, Sonic's power can be completely negated if you happen to run into a Magnet power-up, which does the same thing, while there is no equivalent power-up to Amy's power.
27th Aug '16 2:56:53 PM NoSpoilerz
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' expansion "Wrath of the Lich King" did this accidentally. Due to combination of a number of issues healers found that they could quickly grow to the point where they would never run out of mana to cast spells. This allowed non stop casting (ie spamming) the strongest and quickest heals in the game, which were suppose to be balanced by their higher mana cost. With the infinite and powerful heals available the only way to challenge a raid of 10 or 25 men was by creating bosses that could kill your tank in seconds and raid encounters that made every single raid member take damage no mater what they did just to give the raid healers something to do. This in turn led to Paladins (with the ability to cast one strong fast heal non stop) being the only class capable of healing the primary tank and changed all the raid healers to using one or two type of heals that they cast on every raid member as quickly as possible. Meanwhile Player vs Player combat was all about burst damage, at the peak players could die in one to two GCD (minimum length of time between abilities). If that wasn't bad enough the easier AOE tanking combined with a faster progression of gear quality then originally intended led to all non-raid encounters being a tank running headlong into packs of 10 or 20 monsters at a time, keeping them all distracted and allowing the damage dealers to use their one best area effect spell to do damage on all foes. The Cataclysm expansion has changed all of this. There is now limited mana for healers, who have to use every one of their healing spells. Wars have been fought deciding whether the easy AOE fest or (currently) insanely difficult heroics are preferable.

to:

* The ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' expansion "Wrath of the Lich King" did this accidentally. Due to the combination of a number of issues issues, healers found that they could quickly grow to the point where they would never run out of mana to cast spells. This allowed non stop non-stop casting (ie (read: spamming) the strongest and quickest heals in the game, which were suppose supposed to be balanced by their higher mana cost. With the infinite and stream of powerful heals available available, the only way to challenge a raid of 10 or 25 men was by creating bosses that could kill your tank in seconds and raid encounters that made every single raid member take unavoidable damage no mater what they did just to give the raid healers something to do. This in turn led to Paladins (with the ability to cast one strong fast heal non stop) being the only class capable of healing the primary tank and changed all the raid healers to using one or two type of heals that they cast on every raid member as quickly as possible. Meanwhile Player vs Player combat was all about burst damage, at the peak players could die in one to two GCD (minimum length of time between abilities). If that wasn't bad enough the easier AOE tanking combined with a faster progression of gear quality then originally intended led to all non-raid encounters being a tank running headlong into packs of 10 or 20 monsters at a time, keeping them all distracted and allowing the damage dealers to use their one best area effect spell to do damage on all foes. The Cataclysm expansion has changed all of this. There is now limited mana for healers, who have to use every one of their healing spells. Wars have been fought deciding whether the easy AOE fest or (currently) insanely difficult heroics are preferable.
27th Aug '16 2:26:59 PM NoSpoilerz
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''VideoGame/{{Hearthstone}}'' isn't generally considered a "serious competitive" CCG, with the massive number of [[RandomNumberGod RNG]]-based effects making it clearly more of a "for fun" game, so people are generally more easy-going on its balance deficiencies. However, the developers have repeatedly shown that they have absolutely NO idea how to properly evaluate power when designing new cards. Probably the most infamous example came in the Grand Tournament expansion which featured two class 6-drop minions- the Paladin epic Mysterious Challenger and the Shaman legendary The Mistcaller. The former was something they thought might be kind of interesting (a 6/6 minion which, when played, searches your deck for a copy of every Secret in it and puts it into play automatically), while they assumed the latter (a 4/4 which, when played, gives a permanent +1/+1 bonus to ''every minion still in your hand and deck'') would be an extremely powerful and desirable card. Shortly after the expansion launched, the playerbase rapidly deduced that Mysterious Challenger was ''nauseatingly broken beyond measure'' (since in a Paladin deck using every Secret available to them -which are individually weak but, pivotally, ''extremely powerful when used in combination-'' it effectively let you draw up to five cards and play them all for ''free,'' giving it an effective value of nearly ''twenty mana'' when you added its 6/6 body) and it became the centerpiece of the most powerful deck in the game, while The Mistcaller was immediately derided as utterly worthless, so bad that merely playing it would effectively ''lose you the game immediately'' (since ''Hearthstone'' is incredibly tempo-based and playing a pathetic 4/4 which has NO immediate impact on the board on your 6th turn would put you so far behind that you were basically kneecapping yourself). The basic issue is that the developer seem incapable of grasping that THE most important aspects of a useful card are cost-effectiveness and tempo; ''everything'' else (especially the mythical "fun factor") is a secondary concern at ''best.'' Don't even ''ask'' about [[GameBreaker Dr. Boom]] aka. [[FanNickname "Dr. Balanced", "Dr. Broken", "Dr. 7-drop" etc etc]]...

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{Hearthstone}}'' isn't generally considered a "serious competitive" CCG, with the massive number of [[RandomNumberGod RNG]]-based effects making it clearly more of a "for fun" game, so people are generally more easy-going on its balance deficiencies. However, the developers have repeatedly shown that they have absolutely NO idea how to properly evaluate power when designing new cards. Probably the most infamous example came in the Grand Tournament expansion which featured two class 6-drop minions- the Paladin epic Mysterious Challenger and the Shaman legendary The Mistcaller. The former was something they thought might be kind of interesting (a 6/6 minion which, when played, searches your deck for a copy of every Secret in it and puts it into play automatically), while they assumed the latter (a 4/4 which, when played, gives a permanent +1/+1 bonus to ''every minion still in your hand and deck'') would be an extremely powerful and desirable card. Shortly after the expansion launched, the playerbase rapidly deduced that Mysterious Challenger was ''nauseatingly broken beyond measure'' (since in a Paladin deck using every Secret available to them -which are individually weak but, pivotally, ''extremely powerful when used in combination-'' it effectively let you draw up to five cards and play them all for ''free,'' giving it an effective value of nearly ''twenty mana'' when you added its 6/6 body) and it became the centerpiece of the most powerful deck in the game, while The Mistcaller was immediately derided as utterly worthless, so bad that merely playing it would effectively ''lose you the game immediately'' (since ''Hearthstone'' is incredibly tempo-based and playing a pathetic 4/4 which has NO immediate impact on the board on your 6th turn would put you so far behind that you were basically kneecapping yourself). The basic issue is that the developer seem incapable of grasping that THE most important aspects of a useful card are cost-effectiveness [[GiantMook cost-effectiveness]] and tempo; [[ZergRush tempo]]; ''everything'' else (especially the mythical "fun factor") is a secondary concern at ''best.'' Don't even ''ask'' about [[GameBreaker Dr. Boom]] aka. [[FanNickname "Dr. Balanced", "Dr. Broken", "Dr. 7-drop" etc etc]]...
27th Aug '16 2:19:41 PM NoSpoilerz
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''VideoGame/{{Hearthstone}}'' isn't generally considered a "serious competitive" CCG, with the massive number of [[RandomNumberGod RNG]]-based effects making it clearly more of a "for fun" game, so people are generally more easy-going on its balance deficiencies. However, the developers have repeatedly shown that they have absolutely NO idea how to properly evaluate power when designing new cards. Probably the most infamous example came in the Grand Tournament expansion which featured two class 6-drop minions- the Paladin epic Mysterious Challenger and the Shaman legendary The Mistcaller. The former was something they thought might kind of interesting (a 6/6 minion which, when played, searches your deck for a copy of every Secret in it and puts it into play automatically), while they assumed the latter (a 4/4 which, when played, gives a permanent +1/+1 bonus to ''every minion still in your hand and deck'') would be an extremely powerful and desirable card. Shortly after the expansion launched, the playerbase rapidly deduced that Mysterious Challenger was ''nauseatingly broken beyond measure'' (since in a Paladin deck using every Secret available to them -which are individually weak but, pivotally, ''extremely powerful when used in combination-'' it effectively let you draw up to five cards and play them all for ''free,'' giving it an effective value of nearly ''twenty mana'' when you added its 6/6 body) and it became the centerpiece of the most powerful deck in the game, while The Mistcaller was immediately derided as utterly worthless, so bad that merely playing it would effectively ''lose you the game immediately'' (since ''Hearthstone'' is incredibly tempo-based and playing a pathetic 4/4 which has NO immediate impact on the board on your 6th turn would put you so far behind that you were basically kneecapping yourself). The basic issue is that the developer seem incapable of grasping that THE most important aspects of a useful card are cost-effectiveness and tempo; ''everything'' else (especially the mythical "fun factor") is a secondary concern at ''best.'' Don't even ''ask'' about [[GameBreaker Dr. Boom]] aka. [[FanNickname "Dr. Balanced", "Dr. Broken", "Dr. 7-drop" etc etc]]...

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{Hearthstone}}'' isn't generally considered a "serious competitive" CCG, with the massive number of [[RandomNumberGod RNG]]-based effects making it clearly more of a "for fun" game, so people are generally more easy-going on its balance deficiencies. However, the developers have repeatedly shown that they have absolutely NO idea how to properly evaluate power when designing new cards. Probably the most infamous example came in the Grand Tournament expansion which featured two class 6-drop minions- the Paladin epic Mysterious Challenger and the Shaman legendary The Mistcaller. The former was something they thought might be kind of interesting (a 6/6 minion which, when played, searches your deck for a copy of every Secret in it and puts it into play automatically), while they assumed the latter (a 4/4 which, when played, gives a permanent +1/+1 bonus to ''every minion still in your hand and deck'') would be an extremely powerful and desirable card. Shortly after the expansion launched, the playerbase rapidly deduced that Mysterious Challenger was ''nauseatingly broken beyond measure'' (since in a Paladin deck using every Secret available to them -which are individually weak but, pivotally, ''extremely powerful when used in combination-'' it effectively let you draw up to five cards and play them all for ''free,'' giving it an effective value of nearly ''twenty mana'' when you added its 6/6 body) and it became the centerpiece of the most powerful deck in the game, while The Mistcaller was immediately derided as utterly worthless, so bad that merely playing it would effectively ''lose you the game immediately'' (since ''Hearthstone'' is incredibly tempo-based and playing a pathetic 4/4 which has NO immediate impact on the board on your 6th turn would put you so far behind that you were basically kneecapping yourself). The basic issue is that the developer seem incapable of grasping that THE most important aspects of a useful card are cost-effectiveness and tempo; ''everything'' else (especially the mythical "fun factor") is a secondary concern at ''best.'' Don't even ''ask'' about [[GameBreaker Dr. Boom]] aka. [[FanNickname "Dr. Balanced", "Dr. Broken", "Dr. 7-drop" etc etc]]...
22nd Aug '16 11:21:51 PM Kadorhal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** The Double Tap perk. The Stopping Power perk increased the damage of bullet by 40%, generally making bullets take one bullet less to kill. Double Tap made weapons fire faster. On slow-firing weapons, Double Tap allows you to fire again much quicker. On semi-automatic weapons that are only limited by a fire-rate cap that's usually ''already'' higher than the automatic rates of full-auto weapons, Double Tap pretty much does nothing. For automatic weapons that do 30 damage on average, they are equal in killing speed. On automatic weapons that do more, Stopping Power kills a bit faster. However, increasing the fire rate allows increases recoil and the chance of wasting shots on automatic weapons. Needless to say, with the popularity of fast-firing automatics, Double Tap was rarely used.
** Also, the killstreak/scorestreak system often times gives the winning team a much bigger advantage. Once one team starts getting more kills, they get more killstreaks, which help them get more kills, which help them get more killstreaks, and it just snowballs from there. There are games were entire teams are simply shut down because they're overwhelmed by the opposing team's killstreak support. And let's not get started with the Nuclear Strike killstreak in ''Modern Warfare 2''. Most games since ''[=MW2=]'' switched the system so kills made with killstreak rewards either didn't count towards the next killstreak, or did but only gave a fourth of the points and did not have a game-breaking super-streak like the Nuke, to help make things more fair.

to:

*** The Double Tap perk. The Stopping Power perk increased the damage of bullet by 40%, generally making bullets take one bullet less to kill. Double Tap made weapons fire faster. On slow-firing weapons, Double Tap allows you to fire again much quicker. On semi-automatic weapons that are only limited by a fire-rate cap that's usually ''already'' higher than the automatic rates of full-auto weapons, Double Tap pretty much does nothing. For automatic weapons that do 30 damage on average, they are equal in killing speed. On automatic weapons that do more, Stopping Power kills a bit faster. However, increasing the fire rate allows increases recoil and the chance of wasting shots on automatic weapons. Needless to say, with the popularity of fast-firing automatics, Double Tap was rarely used.
used. Like the issue with explosives above, this was fixed in later games, in part by removing Stopping Power entirely, and in part by replacing the Double Tap perk with an attachment that had the same effect.
** Also, the killstreak/scorestreak system often times gives the winning team a much bigger advantage. Once one team starts getting more kills, they get more killstreaks, which help them get more kills, which help them get more killstreaks, and it just snowballs from there. There are games were where entire teams are simply shut down because they're overwhelmed by the opposing team's killstreak support. And let's not get started with the Nuclear Strike killstreak in ''Modern Warfare 2''. Most games since ''[=MW2=]'' switched the system so kills made with killstreak rewards either didn't count towards the next killstreak, or did but only gave a fourth of the points and did not have a game-breaking super-streak like the Nuke, to help make things more fair.



*** The MP-40 of ''World at War'' was widely considered a deadly weapon, which a developer from Treyarch admitted and apologized for [[http://www.callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=237415&p=2753427&sid=45183683136faca8daa3631da2e5a017#p2753427 here]]. The imbalance was on account of the weapon being balanced mathematically so that its direct time to kill a player, if all the bullets hit, was made equal to the killing speed of the other sub-machine guns within their respective effective ranges. Problem was, seemingly, the gun itself was not properly playtested and is why the MP-40 was able to slip into the released game so overpowering.
* ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' had the Sandman, a good example of an unbalanced skillset. The Sandman's baseball attack could knock out a player temporarily, but the actual melee attack was weaker to make up for it. But nobody used the Sandman for its melee attack, since the Scattergun was stronger at melee range anyway; the Sandman amounted to a certain kill, provided you could hit with the ball (which wasn't as hard as some players liked to claim). Even worse, the Sandman could stun players under the effect of an Ubercharge (temporary invincibility), which meant either a few wasted seconds (if you hit the charge target) or, worse, a wasted Uber (if you hit the Medic). All of this made it ''the'' single most hated unlockable, with [[StopHavingFunGuys CEVO]] actually banning it from competitive play.

to:

*** The MP-40 of ''World at War'' was widely considered a deadly weapon, the deadliest weapon in the game, which a developer from Treyarch admitted and apologized for [[http://www.callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=237415&p=2753427&sid=45183683136faca8daa3631da2e5a017#p2753427 here]]. The imbalance was on account of the weapon being balanced mathematically so that its direct time to kill a player, if all the bullets hit, was made equal to the killing speed of the other sub-machine submachine guns within their respective effective ranges. Problem was, seemingly, the gun itself was not properly playtested and is why the MP-40 was able to slip into the released game so overpowering.
completely overpowered.
* ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' had the Sandman, a good example of an unbalanced skillset. The Sandman's baseball attack could knock out a player temporarily, but the actual melee attack was weaker to make up for it. But nobody used the Sandman for its melee attack, since the Scattergun was stronger at melee range anyway; the Sandman amounted to a certain kill, provided you could hit with the ball (which wasn't as hard as some players liked to claim). Even worse, the Sandman could stun players under the effect of an Ubercharge (temporary invincibility), which meant either a few wasted seconds of the Uber (if you hit the charge target) or, worse, a an ''entirely'' wasted Uber (if you hit the Medic). All of this made it ''the'' single most hated unlockable, with [[StopHavingFunGuys CEVO]] actually banning it from competitive play.



** A less noticeable example would be some of the unlockable melee weapons compared to their default counterparts, specifically for the Pyro's Fire Axe, Heavy's Fist, and Soldier's Shovel. The unlockable weapons generally are better in specific circumstances and worse in others (Axtinguisher does huge damage against burning enemies and less against others, [[DesperationAttack the Equalizer does less damage at high health and more at low health]]), or grant special abilities at the cost of making them less effective as weapons (the G.R.U. lets the Heavy run faster while increases damage he takes, but do less damage). The catch is that default weapons for those classes are almost ''entirely useless'' in the first place even as {{Emergency Weapon}}s (the Rocket Launcher reloads as fast as a melee weapon is used while the Minigun and Flamethrower only need to reload when entirely out of ammo, which rarely happens), so there's nowhere to go but up most of the time.
*** The Medic's Bonesaw and Pyro's Fire Axe are in the uniquely awful position of being obsoleted by direct upgrades (the Solemn Vow and Third Degree, which respectively let you see enemy health and damage whoever your target is healing or being healed by). However, the Solemn Vow has since been nerfed (given a slightly slower swing-speed with the Gun Mettle update) and the Third Degree is only a minor upgrade to the Fire Axe.
* ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquerRenegade'' was balanced in that GDI and Nod each had an approximately equal chance of winning a given match. Other than that, you had infantry which were only worth a damn fighting other infantry, matches that devolved into neverending reverse tug-of-war tank battles due to the repair mechanics, {{hitscan}} snipers who could kill with 1-3 bodyshots, and so on. To avoid taking up the entire page with how this game failed to achieve balance, I'll leave it at that.
** It's nice to see how faithfully they translated the RTS into an FPS so well, as ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquer'' has always been about tank rushes.

to:

** A less noticeable example would be some of the unlockable melee weapons compared to their default counterparts, specifically for the Pyro's Fire Axe, Heavy's Fist, and Soldier's Shovel. The unlockable weapons generally are better in specific circumstances and worse in others (Axtinguisher does huge damage against burning enemies and less against others, [[DesperationAttack the Equalizer does less damage at high health and more at low health]]), or grant special abilities at the cost of making them less effective as weapons (the G.R.U. lets the Heavy run faster while increases damage he takes, but do less damage). The catch is that default weapons for those classes are almost ''entirely useless'' in the first place even as {{Emergency Weapon}}s (the Rocket Launcher reloads as fast as a melee weapon is used can be swung, while the Minigun and Flamethrower only need to reload when entirely out of ammo, which rarely happens), so there's nowhere to go but up most of the time.
*** The Medic's Bonesaw and Pyro's Fire Axe are were/are in the uniquely awful position of being obsoleted by direct upgrades (the Solemn Vow and Third Degree, which respectively let you see enemy health and damage whoever your target is healing or being healed by). However, the Solemn Vow has since been nerfed (given a slightly slower swing-speed with the Gun Mettle update) and the Third Degree is only a minor upgrade to the Fire Axe.
* ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquerRenegade'' was balanced in that GDI and Nod each had an approximately equal chance of winning a given match. Other than that, you had infantry which were only worth a damn fighting other infantry, matches that devolved into neverending reverse tug-of-war tank battles due to the repair mechanics, {{hitscan}} snipers who could kill with 1-3 bodyshots, and so on. To avoid taking up This balance failure ironically makes it possibly the entire page with how this most faithful FPS conversions of an RTS game failed to achieve balance, I'll leave it at that.
** It's nice to see how faithfully they translated the RTS into an FPS so well,
ever, as ''VideoGame/CommandAndConquer'' has always been about tank rushes.



** This is a problem in ''RedFaction: Guerilla'' and ''VideoGame/{{Prototype}}'', too, but it's not as bad in the former and [[GodzillaThreshold makes sense]] in the later.

to:

** This is a problem in ''RedFaction: ''VideoGame/RedFaction: Guerilla'' and ''VideoGame/{{Prototype}}'', too, but it's not as bad in the former and [[GodzillaThreshold makes sense]] in the later.



*** And then when the meta developed and the air game became much more important, followed by players realizing how awful Mac's recovery was, he immediately became somewhat of a joke character, as players in FG would regularly just throw him off and use a single follow-up attack to take his first stock. Similarly, picking Little Mac in any sort of 4 stock competitive setting resulats in a quick loss amidst a stream of tears. Especially now that [[VideoGame/StreetFighter Ryu]] is out, who is widely considered 'better Mac with air game'.

to:

*** And then when the meta developed and the air game became much more important, followed by players realizing how awful Mac's recovery was, he immediately became somewhat of a joke character, as players in FG would regularly just throw him off and use a single follow-up attack to take his first stock. Similarly, picking Little Mac in any sort of 4 stock competitive setting resulats results in a quick loss amidst a stream of tears. Especially now that [[VideoGame/StreetFighter Ryu]] is out, who is widely considered 'better Mac with air game'.
28th Jul '16 4:32:14 PM Kadorhal
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''VideoGame/ResidentEvil1'' you can pick between Chris and Jill. Jill can pick locks, carry 8 items, can get the Grenade Launcher right at the beginning of the game (Which is a DiskOneNuke), and has Barry at her back who on several occasions gives her extra ammo and even gives her earlier access to the shotgun. Chris gets the useless [[VideoGameFlameThrowersSuck flamethrower]] ''late'' in the game, carries only 6 items, must find keys to open doors, and has to babysit the rookie Rebecca, but takes about twice as many hits to kill to balance it out. However, since Jill can pick locks and carry more items, it means far less traveling around and far less encountering enemies, and her handy dandy grenade launcher can take out the tough ones. Chris sucks.
** Justified in the Japanese version of the original, where the character select screen was also the difficulty selection screen (Chris's story being "Hard mode").

to:

* In ''VideoGame/ResidentEvil1'' you can pick between Chris and Jill. Jill can pick locks, carry 8 items, can get the Grenade Launcher right at the beginning of the game (Which is a DiskOneNuke), and has Barry at her back who on several occasions gives her extra ammo and even gives her earlier access to the shotgun. Chris gets the useless [[VideoGameFlameThrowersSuck flamethrower]] ''late'' in the game, carries only 6 items, must find keys to open doors, and has to babysit the rookie Rebecca, but takes about twice as many hits to kill to balance it out. However, since Jill can pick locks and carry more items, it means far less traveling around and far less encountering enemies, and her handy dandy grenade launcher can take out the tough ones. Chris sucks.
** Justified
This was justified in the Japanese version of the original, where the character select screen was also the difficulty selection screen (Chris's screen, with Chris's story being "Hard mode").mode".



* ''VideoGame/ResidentEvil2'' flipped the genders, with Claire being near ''useless'' compared to Leon. Leon gets a ''vastly'' superior load-out: his starting handgun is better than Claire's, and he also gets access to a magnum and a shotgun (and all three can be upgraded), and takes far less damage. Claire can pick locks, but there are only three locks in the entire game that can be opened this way (two in the police station and one in the sewers on the B scenario), and although she gets the superior grenade launcher and the LethalJokeWeapon Spark Shot, she is still outclassed in pretty much every aspect. At least it's justified, with Leon being a prodigy cop and Claire simply being a university student, but despite this most players pick Claire for the first playthrough anyway simply because [[WrongGenreSavvy they remember the last game]]. In fact, so many fans insist on playing Claire's story first that [[AscendedFanon the official canon events of the game are Claire A Leon B]].

to:

* ''VideoGame/ResidentEvil2'' flipped the genders, with Claire being near ''useless'' compared to Leon. Leon gets a ''vastly'' superior load-out: his starting handgun is better than Claire's, and he also gets access to a magnum and a shotgun (and shotgun, all three of those weapons can be upgraded), upgraded, and he takes far less damage. Claire can pick locks, but there are only three locks in the entire game that can be opened this way (two in the police station and one in the sewers on the B scenario), and although she gets the superior grenade launcher and the LethalJokeWeapon Spark Shot, she is still outclassed in pretty much every aspect. At least it's justified, with Leon being a prodigy cop and Claire simply being a university student, but despite this most players pick Claire for the first playthrough anyway simply because [[WrongGenreSavvy they remember the last game]]. In fact, so many fans insist on playing Claire's story first that [[AscendedFanon the official canon events of the game are Claire A Leon B]].



* AlienVsPredator:Extinction only has single player campaign, but that doesn't mean it's not susceptible to balance problems. Difficulty in order goes from Aliens (Pathetically easy), Marines (Somewhat easy), and Predators (NintendoHard), and for several reasons.

to:

* AlienVsPredator:Extinction ''VideoGame/AliensVsPredatorExtinction'' only has single player campaign, but that doesn't mean it's not susceptible to balance problems. Difficulty in order goes from Aliens (Pathetically easy), Marines (Somewhat easy), and Predators (NintendoHard), and for several reasons.



** The Aliens weaknesses are two things. One, they lack ranged units. However, most of their units can easily close the gaps between units, and their only ranged unit is one of the most useful aliens in the game, the worker alien, solely because anyone they hit after upgraded will create more powerful aliens. Their second weakness is that if they don't win battles early on, they'll be pretty weak. This doesn't necessarily mean battles against the other factions. If they have easy access to scientists or, worse, respawnable critters, they will have no problems with creating a stupidly large army.
* In the ''FireEmblem'' series, archers are hit hard by this. Archers are units who use bows, which allow them to attack from 2 spaces away (with some bows allowing them to attack from even further away). However, in most games they can't fight in melee combat, meaning they usually only get to act once a turn, which greatly limits how much experience they earn in combat. Typically, they're pretty weak statwise, usually having all-around poor stats in everything except Skill and ''occasionally'' Speed, which further limits their combat ability. Worse still, they don't have exclusive access to ranged attacks; magic using units are able to attack from range ''and'' melee (in addition to the powerful "siege" tomes that let mages attack from up to ''ten'' spaces away), and there are ranged versions of spears and axes that ''also'' have melee and ranged abilities. They aren't even the only bow users, as nomads and hunters also use bows while ''also'' having better balanced stats and better movement. The one niche they could be said to have, which is bonus damage against flying units, isn't even always unique to them, as there's been more than one game where mages have flyer-slaying weapons as well. All this adds up to create a mongrel of a class that can't do much of anything that other units can't do better, with only a handful of archers in the entire series having anything noteworthy about them to make them worth using.

to:

** The Aliens Aliens' weaknesses are two things. One, they lack ranged units. However, most of their units can easily close the gaps between units, and their only ranged unit is one of the most useful aliens in the game, the worker alien, solely because anyone they hit after upgraded will create more powerful aliens. Their second weakness is that if they don't win battles early on, they'll be pretty weak. This doesn't necessarily mean battles against the other factions. If they have easy access to scientists or, worse, respawnable critters, they will have no problems with creating a stupidly large army.
* In the ''FireEmblem'' ''VideoGame/FireEmblem'' series, archers are hit hard by this. Archers are units who use bows, which allow them to attack from 2 spaces away (with some bows allowing them to attack from even further away). However, in most games they can't fight in melee combat, meaning they usually only get to act once a turn, which greatly limits how much experience they earn in combat. Typically, they're pretty weak statwise, usually having all-around poor stats in everything except Skill and ''occasionally'' Speed, which further limits their combat ability. Worse still, they don't have exclusive access to ranged attacks; magic using units are able to attack from range ''and'' melee (in addition to the powerful "siege" tomes that let mages attack from up to ''ten'' spaces away), and there are ranged versions of spears and axes that ''also'' have melee and ranged abilities. They aren't even the only bow users, as nomads and hunters also use bows while ''also'' having better balanced stats and better movement. The one niche they could be said to have, which is bonus damage against flying units, isn't even always unique to them, as there's been more than one game where mages have flyer-slaying weapons as well. All this adds up to create a mongrel of a class that can't do much of anything that other units can't do better, with only a handful of archers in the entire series having anything noteworthy about them to make them worth using.
16th Jul '16 1:03:51 PM DoctorTItanX
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* '''Counterplay-based balance''': An item or character is ridiculously overpowered, but falls apart if you use a certain item, character or strategy, but this can be undone with another item/character/strategy, and so on and on until you end up with a multiplicity of layers of counterplay. The rationale here is that overpowered characters can be negated by skilled people capable of exploiting their weaknesses. This also has the side effect of creating {{Skill Gate Character}}s that are very strong against unskilled players, but weak against skilled players.

to:

* '''Counterplay-based balance''': An item or character is ridiculously overpowered, overpowering, but falls apart if you use a certain item, character or strategy, but this can be undone with another item/character/strategy, and so on and on until you end up with a multiplicity of layers of counterplay. The rationale here is that overpowered these powerful characters can be negated by skilled people capable of exploiting their weaknesses. This also has the side effect of creating {{Skill Gate Character}}s that are very strong against unskilled players, but weak against skilled players.



* An example of a failed attempt of balance by rarity can be found in ''MagicTheGathering''. When the game was first released, it was known that cards such as Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, Timetwister and the Moxes were game-breakingly powerful if present in sufficient quantities. However, they believed that since most players would only buy a starter deck and a couple of boosters, their power would never become an issue. This is especially evident when you look at the initial deck construction rules: 40-card minimum for decks, and no maximum for any individual cards. The deck of nothing but Black Lotus/Channel/Fireball was 100% legal, and that's not even the most broken deck you could build. Constructed tournament later evolved to have a 60 card minimum limit and a maximum of 4 individual non-land cards, thus effectively removing the fake balance.

to:

* An example of a failed attempt of balance by rarity can be found in ''MagicTheGathering''. When the game was first released, it was known that cards such as Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, Timetwister and the Moxes were game-breakingly powerful if present in sufficient quantities. However, they believed that since most players would only buy a starter deck and a couple of boosters, their power would never become an issue. This is especially evident when you look at the initial deck construction rules: 40-card minimum for decks, and no maximum for any individual cards. The deck of nothing but Black Lotus/Channel/Fireball was 100% legal, and that's not even the most broken powerful deck you could build. Constructed tournament later evolved to have a 60 card minimum limit and a maximum of 4 individual non-land cards, thus effectively removing the fake balance.



*** In ''Magic'' limited formats, there is the ''BREAD'' principle, which describe what card to draft - Bombs, Removal, Evasion, Advantage and Dregs. While Removal, Evasion, Advantage and Dregs cards are available in every rarity, Bombs are usually in the rare slot. A deck with a good amount of bomb and removal cards usually has a considerable upper hand. Whether a player obtained those cards by luck or by skills is something that is often discussed in [=MTG=] boards. Large amounts of removal can make up for a lack of bombs by ensuring you can always get rid of whatever overpowered creature is thrown out by your opponent. The bombiest of bombs tend to be cards which are immune to removal, either non-creatures which thus naturally evade anti-creature removal spells, creatures which are somehow immune to removal due to protection, shroud, regeneration, or similar effects, or bombs which act as removal themselves.

to:

*** In ''Magic'' limited formats, there is the ''BREAD'' principle, which describe what card to draft - Bombs, Removal, Evasion, Advantage and Dregs. While Removal, Evasion, Advantage and Dregs cards are available in every rarity, Bombs are usually in the rare slot. A deck with a good amount of bomb and removal cards usually has a considerable upper hand. Whether a player obtained those cards by luck or by skills is something that is often discussed in [=MTG=] boards. Large amounts of removal can make up for a lack of bombs by ensuring you can always get rid of whatever overpowered overpowering creature is thrown out by your opponent. The bombiest greatest of bombs tend to be cards which are immune to removal, either non-creatures which thus naturally evade anti-creature removal spells, creatures which are somehow immune to removal due to protection, shroud, regeneration, or similar effects, or bombs which act as removal themselves.



* ''VideoGame/{{Hearthstone}}'' isn't generally considered a "serious competitive" CCG, with the massive number of [[RandomNumberGod RNG]]-based effects making it clearly more of a "for fun" game, so people are generally more easy-going on its balance deficiencies. However, the developers have repeatedly shown that they have absolutely NO idea how to properly evaluate power when designing new cards. Probably the most infamous example came in the Grand Tournament expansion which featured two class 6-drop minions- the Paladin epic Mysterious Challenger and the Shaman legendary The Mistcaller. The former was something they thought might kind of interesting (a 6/6 minion which, when played, searches your deck for a copy of every Secret in it and puts it into play automatically), while they assumed the latter (a 4/4 which, when played, gives a permanent +1/+1 bonus to ''every minion still in your hand and deck'') would be an extremely powerful and desirable card. Shortly after the expansion launched, the playerbase rapidly deduced that Mysterious Challenger was ''nauseatingly broken beyond measure'' (since in a Paladin deck using every Secret available to them -which are individually weak but, pivotally, ''extremely powerful when used in combination-'' it effectively let you draw up to five cards and play them all for ''free,'' giving it an effective value of nearly ''twenty mana'' when you added its 6/6 body) and it became the centerpiece of the most overpowered deck in the game, while The Mistcaller was immediately derided as utterly worthless, so bad that merely playing it would effectively ''lose you the game immediately'' (since ''Hearthstone'' is incredibly tempo-based and playing a pathetic 4/4 which has NO immediate impact on the board on your 6th turn would put you so far behind that you were basically kneecapping yourself). The basic issue is that the developer seem incapable of grasping that THE most important aspects of a useful card are cost-effectiveness and tempo; ''everything'' else (especially the mythical "fun factor") is a secondary concern at ''best.'' Don't even ''ask'' about [[GameBreaker Dr. Boom]] aka. [[FanNickname "Dr. Balanced", "Dr. Broken", "Dr. 7-drop" etc etc]]...

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{Hearthstone}}'' isn't generally considered a "serious competitive" CCG, with the massive number of [[RandomNumberGod RNG]]-based effects making it clearly more of a "for fun" game, so people are generally more easy-going on its balance deficiencies. However, the developers have repeatedly shown that they have absolutely NO idea how to properly evaluate power when designing new cards. Probably the most infamous example came in the Grand Tournament expansion which featured two class 6-drop minions- the Paladin epic Mysterious Challenger and the Shaman legendary The Mistcaller. The former was something they thought might kind of interesting (a 6/6 minion which, when played, searches your deck for a copy of every Secret in it and puts it into play automatically), while they assumed the latter (a 4/4 which, when played, gives a permanent +1/+1 bonus to ''every minion still in your hand and deck'') would be an extremely powerful and desirable card. Shortly after the expansion launched, the playerbase rapidly deduced that Mysterious Challenger was ''nauseatingly broken beyond measure'' (since in a Paladin deck using every Secret available to them -which are individually weak but, pivotally, ''extremely powerful when used in combination-'' it effectively let you draw up to five cards and play them all for ''free,'' giving it an effective value of nearly ''twenty mana'' when you added its 6/6 body) and it became the centerpiece of the most overpowered powerful deck in the game, while The Mistcaller was immediately derided as utterly worthless, so bad that merely playing it would effectively ''lose you the game immediately'' (since ''Hearthstone'' is incredibly tempo-based and playing a pathetic 4/4 which has NO immediate impact on the board on your 6th turn would put you so far behind that you were basically kneecapping yourself). The basic issue is that the developer seem incapable of grasping that THE most important aspects of a useful card are cost-effectiveness and tempo; ''everything'' else (especially the mythical "fun factor") is a secondary concern at ''best.'' Don't even ''ask'' about [[GameBreaker Dr. Boom]] aka. [[FanNickname "Dr. Balanced", "Dr. Broken", "Dr. 7-drop" etc etc]]...



* ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' had LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards from the get go, resulting in exactly what would be expected - wizards being really tough to get up to a decent level, but if they survived (and in a party, they would survive, especially in later iterations like 3rd edition) they were just broken. This was not specific to wizards; all full casters tended to be broken because they had abilities which simply didn't care about how many hit points enemies had, and which enemies had no defenses against - indeed, some even worked against enemies immune to magic because they did not directly affect them, and such difficulties could often be circumvented anyway by simply focusing on buffing yourself to godlike capabilities. This was fixed in 4th edition by greatly restricting what magic users were capable of as well as expanding what other characters could do, resulting in complaints by players who completely missed the point - that if a character can do everything there's no need for an adventuring party, or other classes.
** 3.5 had this problem when they introduced a MagicKnight class, the hexblade, and overestimated the usefulness of being able to cast spells in armor (there were already low-level spells which acted as superior substitutes to armor). As a result, the hexblade couldn't cast ''or'' fight [[MasterOfNone very well]]. The designers basically admitted that they'd messed up, and their next attempt at the archetype (the duskblade) was much more balanced ([[CharacterTiers A low tier 3]] with tier 1 and 2 belonging to classes considered to have GameBreaker stats). The opposite problem was the full caster classes, all of which completely shattered the game - most could turn themselves into better melee combatants than the actual melee combatant classes, and even worse, oftentimes that was pointless anyway because they could do even STRONGER things. High level full casters make the game utterly unplayable because they simply cannot be threatened effectively by anything which does not use similar tactics. This criticism of the game was termed as [[RocketTagGameplay "rocket tag", as in, whoever hit with their rocket first won]].

to:

* ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' had LinearWarriorsQuadraticWizards from the get go, resulting in exactly what would be expected - wizards being really tough to get up to a decent level, but if they survived (and in a party, they would survive, especially in later iterations like 3rd edition) they were just broken. This was not specific to wizards; all full casters tended to be broken because they had abilities which simply didn't care about how many hit points enemies had, and which enemies had no defenses against - indeed, some even worked against enemies immune to magic because they did not directly affect them, and such difficulties could often be circumvented anyway by simply focusing on buffing yourself to godlike capabilities. This was fixed in 4th edition by greatly restricting what magic users were capable of as well as expanding what other characters could do, resulting in complaints by players who completely missed the point - that if a character can do everything there's no need for an adventuring party, or other classes.
** 3.5 had this problem when they introduced a MagicKnight class, the hexblade, Hexblade, and overestimated the usefulness of being able to cast spells in armor (there were already low-level spells which acted as superior substitutes to armor). As a result, the hexblade couldn't cast ''or'' fight [[MasterOfNone very well]]. The designers basically admitted that they'd messed up, and their next attempt at the archetype (the duskblade) was much more balanced ([[CharacterTiers A low tier 3]] with tier 1 and 2 belonging to classes considered to have GameBreaker stats). The opposite problem was the full caster classes, all of which completely shattered the game - most could turn themselves into better melee combatants than the actual melee combatant classes, and even worse, oftentimes that was pointless anyway because they could do even STRONGER things. High level full casters make the game utterly unplayable because they simply cannot be threatened effectively by anything which does not use similar tactics. This criticism of the game was termed as [[RocketTagGameplay "rocket tag", as in, whoever hit with their rocket first won]].



* Despite being designed with an eye for better balance, 4th Edition D&D hasn't entirely avoided this. Initially, many players did not understand how to play controller characters properly, and there were a large number of what amounted to fake choices in the original power set for the wizard, the first controller class. Controllers do exactly that, control the battlefield and debuff enemies, but many players picked area damage spells instead, which were terrible because the Wizard is not a damage-dealing class (and never really was, though many players played them as such - and the fact that they seemed powerful even then says something about how broken the casters really were). [[strike:Bad]] Players used to the previous editions, where wizards were often played as ''damage-dealers'' rather than controllers, constantly [[strike:whined]] complained about wizards [[strike:being underpowered]] not being able to do what they ''used'' to be able to do in previous editions, while, ironically, they were actually one of the strongest classes, and acquired some game breaking abilities at higher levels which required errata. They later released the Sorcerer, who was a more conventional blaster-wizard designed to deal damage similar to the "throwing fireballs and lightning bolts" evoker that many players played previously.

to:

* Despite being designed with an eye for better balance, 4th Edition D&D hasn't entirely avoided this. Initially, many players did not understand how to play controller characters properly, and there were a large number of what amounted to fake choices in the original power set for the wizard, the first controller class. Controllers do exactly that, control the battlefield and debuff enemies, but many players picked area damage spells instead, which were terrible because the Wizard is not a damage-dealing class (and never really was, though many players played them as such - and the fact that they seemed powerful even then says something about how broken useful the casters really truly were). [[strike:Bad]] Players used to the previous editions, where wizards were often played as ''damage-dealers'' rather than controllers, constantly [[strike:whined]] complained about wizards [[strike:being underpowered]] not being able to do what they ''used'' to be able to do in previous editions, while, ironically, they were actually one of the strongest classes, and acquired some game breaking abilities at higher levels which required errata. They later released the Sorcerer, who was a more conventional blaster-wizard designed to deal damage similar to the "throwing fireballs and lightning bolts" evoker that many players played previously.



** Other balance items that look good on paper but really don't work: Weapons with a higher accuracy are much, much better than weapons that lose accuracy for special properties, due to the way the game math works at higher levels. Because most powers only have an effect if they connect, hitting is much important than some incidental rider ability on the strike, and yet weapons got balanced between those that had extra accuracy and those that didn't but had other effects. This is less of an issue for fighters, who have powers which make some of the less accurate weapons much stronger (hammers are amongst the best fighter weapons, despite their slightly lower accuracy, for this very reason), but for every other class...

to:

** Other balance items that look good on paper but really don't work: Weapons with a higher accuracy are much, much better than weapons that lose accuracy for special properties, due to the way the game math works at higher levels. Because most powers only have an effect if they connect, hitting is much more important than some incidental rider ability on the strike, and yet weapons got balanced between those that had extra accuracy and those that didn't but had other effects. This is less of an issue for fighters, who have powers which make some of the less accurate weapons much stronger (hammers are amongst the best fighter weapons, despite their slightly lower accuracy, for this very reason), but for every other class...



** For those non-players: Orbizards (or Orb Wizards) are Wizards that get a special ability as long as they wield an orb as an implement - as opposed to those who wield a staff, a wand and so on. These also get special abilities, but they weren't nearly as powerful. Orbizards could once per encounter debuff a monster's saving throw against an effect the wizard cast. To succeed on a saving throw, you have to get a 10 or higher on a d20 roll. Solo monsters get a +5 to saving throws, which means they can succeed on a 5 or higher. But the orbizard could - if he took the right items, skills and feats - debuff a monster's save by -17! So you cast "Sleep" or any spell that makes the monster unconscious and needs a save to be ended onto the enemy, couple that with your -17 to saves, and even the highest level monster in the game would need to roll a 22 to succeed. [[ImpossibleTask On a d20.]] This could trivialize entire encounters, and was WAY overpowered. They errataed it out, along with most other saving throw penalties which lasted longer than a round.

to:

** For those non-players: Orbizards (or Orb Wizards) are Wizards that get a special ability as long as they wield an orb as an implement - as opposed to those who wield a staff, a wand and so on. These also get special abilities, but they weren't nearly as powerful. Orbizards could once per encounter debuff a monster's saving throw against an effect the wizard cast. To succeed on a saving throw, you have to get a 10 or higher on a d20 roll. Solo monsters get a +5 to saving throws, which means they can succeed on a 5 or higher. But the orbizard could - if he took the right items, skills and feats - debuff a monster's save by -17! So you cast "Sleep" or any spell that makes the monster unconscious and needs a save to be ended onto the enemy, couple that with your -17 to saves, and even the highest level monster in the game would need to roll a 22 to succeed. [[ImpossibleTask On a d20.]] This could trivialize entire encounters, and was WAY overpowered.too powerful. They errataed it out, along with most other saving throw penalties which lasted longer than a round.



** Skill Underestimated: 5th edition Outflanking. Essentially, this allows you to deploy a unit by walking on from a board edge, usually allowing a brutal assault onto anything near that edge. Since you have a 2/3 shot of deploying along the side you want (1/3 of getting the flank you want, 1/3 of getting the flank you don't want, 1/3 of being able to choose which flank you want to deploy on), it's not exactly unreliable. What's more: any unit with the incredibly-common Scouts or Infiltrate special rules can use Outflank deployment. Cue the demise of any army with a CripplingOverspecialization in shooting. (So long as said army doesn't deploy vehicles en masse, which are far less vulnerable to close combat so long as they move at least 6" every turn.) Lash of Submission also deserves honorable mention, as [[WordOfGod Games Workshop themselves]] reportedly remarked how they didn't think anybody would use it in broken ways when they wrote and tested it.

to:

** Skill Underestimated: 5th edition Outflanking. Essentially, this allows you to deploy a unit by walking on from a board edge, usually allowing a brutal assault onto anything near that edge. Since you have a 2/3 shot of deploying along the side you want (1/3 of getting the flank you want, 1/3 of getting the flank you don't want, 1/3 of being able to choose which flank you want to deploy on), it's not exactly unreliable. What's more: any unit with the incredibly-common Scouts or Infiltrate special rules can use Outflank deployment. Cue the demise of any army with a CripplingOverspecialization in shooting. (So long as said army doesn't deploy vehicles en masse, which are far less vulnerable to close combat so long as they move at least 6" every turn.) Lash of Submission also deserves honorable mention, as [[WordOfGod Games Workshop themselves]] reportedly remarked how they didn't think anybody would use it in broken great ways when they wrote and tested it.



*** The MP-40 of ''World at War'' was widely considered an overpowered weapon, which a developer from Treyarch admitted and apologized for [[http://www.callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=237415&p=2753427&sid=45183683136faca8daa3631da2e5a017#p2753427 here]]. The imbalance was on account of the weapon being balanced mathematically so that its direct time to kill a player, if all the bullets hit, was made equal to the killing speed of the other sub-machine guns within their respective effective ranges. Problem was, seemingly, the gun itself was not properly playtested and is why the MP-40 was able to slip into the released game so overpowered.

to:

*** The MP-40 of ''World at War'' was widely considered an overpowered a deadly weapon, which a developer from Treyarch admitted and apologized for [[http://www.callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=237415&p=2753427&sid=45183683136faca8daa3631da2e5a017#p2753427 here]]. The imbalance was on account of the weapon being balanced mathematically so that its direct time to kill a player, if all the bullets hit, was made equal to the killing speed of the other sub-machine guns within their respective effective ranges. Problem was, seemingly, the gun itself was not properly playtested and is why the MP-40 was able to slip into the released game so overpowered.overpowering.



** In reality, the net effect of this is that the map that is being played on heavily influences the balance of the game; on maps with excellent sniping opportunities, such as Aztec, the AWP and the automatic sniper rifles are hilariously overpowered and it is not uncommon to see literally everyone on a winning team wielding them, particularly when they're playing on the defensive. On maps which are close in, where the limited field of view is more of a problem, constant movement is necessary, or flanking is really easy, the AWP and other sniper rifles are strong but balanced weapons which leave you vulnerable in many cases and cost two rounds' worth of money to buy. This is also a somewhat annoying case of where getting better at the game makes the problem worse - most poor to mid-level players do not use smoke grenades and flashbangs very well, and consequently as their opponents with [=AWPs=] get better at aiming, [=AWPs=] become increasingly more "broken". Extremely high-skilled players may be very likely to hit with the AWP, but high-skilled players are also more likely to use flashbangs and smoke grenades properly, which makes [=AWPing=] less useful as your field of view is much more likely to get ruined.

to:

** In reality, the net effect of this is that the map that is being played on heavily influences the balance of the game; on maps with excellent sniping opportunities, such as Aztec, the AWP and the automatic sniper rifles are hilariously overpowered effective and it is not uncommon to see literally everyone on a winning team wielding them, particularly when they're playing on the defensive. On maps which are close in, where the limited field of view is more of a problem, constant movement is necessary, or flanking is really easy, the AWP and other sniper rifles are strong but balanced weapons which leave you vulnerable in many cases and cost two rounds' worth of money to buy. This is also a somewhat annoying case of where getting better at the game makes the problem worse - most poor to mid-level players do not use smoke grenades and flashbangs very well, and consequently as their opponents with [=AWPs=] get better at aiming, [=AWPs=] become increasingly more "broken". Extremely high-skilled players may be very likely to hit with the AWP, but high-skilled players are also more likely to use flashbangs and smoke grenades properly, which makes [=AWPing=] less useful as your field of view is much more likely to get ruined.



** The whole type chart in the first ''Pokémon'' trilogy suffered from fake balance. The designers greatly underrated the Psychic type; not only were both its counters broken (Bug had no strong moves, the only offensive Ghost-type move worth using was horribly weak) and a programming error made Psychics ''immune'' to Ghost instead of the opposite, but it was strong against Poison, a type the designers had spread around the Pokéworld like it was going out of style (especially among Grass, Bugs and Ghosts, where only the former type gets any noticeable amount of mons that ''aren't'' dual-typed as Poison). The apparent balance between "physical" and "special" types was an illusion; physical Attack and Defense were separate stats, but the Special stat governed both offense and defense, making strong Specialists automatically tanks. Needless to say, Psychic is one of the special types. Meanwhile, the Dragon type basically failed to ''exist'' offensively -- its only move was Dragon Rage, which always does 40 damage. The second generation addressed these flaws, and each succeeding generation has fine-tuned the system further.
** Note that there is a slight balance in Special and Physical in the first generation. Special still did not give you protection against Physical. And the Physical side happens to have the Normal type. In the first generation, it was typing that had 1 resistor (Rock) and 1 immunity (Ghost), but nothing weak to it. Defensively, it is immune to the underdeveloped Ghost Type, and weak to Fighting Type. The catch is, in Gen I, the resistor in question is weak (or, in the case of Omastar and Kabutops, at least neutrally-affected) to the ever-common Water, and those that are immune are extremely fragile and weak to the ever-common Ground, and Fighting types are taken down without question by Psychic-types and the fact that good Fighting-type moves are are ridiculously rare. In return, Normal has the crit-fest Slash, the extremely powerful Hyper Beam (with no recharge if it defeats the other mon), and Body Slam, which has the power, wide distribution, and chance to paralyze to make it an extremely game changing move. There is a reason why many Gen I competitive analysis for Normal type on Website/{{Smogon}} go around "This thing is good but is not [[ALoadOfBull Tauros]]" or "This thing is really good, but has no Water moves". Like Psychic type above, Normal types were severely nerfed in second gen onwards.

to:

** The whole type chart in the first ''Pokémon'' trilogy suffered from fake balance. The designers greatly underrated the Psychic type; not only were both its counters broken inconvenient (Bug had no strong moves, the only offensive Ghost-type move worth using was horribly weak) and a programming error made Psychics ''immune'' ''completely immune'' to Ghost instead of the opposite, but it was strong against Poison, a type the designers had spread around the Pokéworld like it was going out of style (especially among Grass, Bugs and Ghosts, where only the former type gets any noticeable amount of mons that ''aren't'' dual-typed as Poison). The apparent balance between "physical" and "special" types was an illusion; physical Attack and Defense were separate stats, but the Special stat governed both offense and defense, making strong Specialists automatically tanks. Needless to say, Psychic is one of the special types. Meanwhile, the Dragon type basically failed to ''exist'' offensively -- its only move was Dragon Rage, which always does 40 damage. The second generation addressed these flaws, and each succeeding generation has fine-tuned the system further.
** Note that there is a slight balance in Special and Physical in the first generation. Special still did not give you protection against Physical. And the Physical side happens to have the Normal type. In the first generation, it was typing that had 1 resistor (Rock) and 1 immunity (Ghost), but nothing weak to it. Defensively, it is immune to the underdeveloped Ghost Type, and weak to Fighting Type. The catch is, in Gen I, the resistor in question is weak (or, in the case of Omastar and Kabutops, at least neutrally-affected) to the ever-common Water, and those that are immune are extremely fragile and weak to the ever-common Ground, and Fighting types are taken down without question by Psychic-types and the fact that good Fighting-type moves are are ridiculously rare. In return, Normal has the crit-fest Slash, the extremely powerful Hyper Beam (with no recharge if it defeats the other mon), Pokemon), and Body Slam, which has the power, wide distribution, and chance to paralyze to make it an extremely game changing move. There is a reason why many Gen I competitive analysis for Normal type on Website/{{Smogon}} go around "This thing is good but is not [[ALoadOfBull Tauros]]" or "This thing is really good, but has no Water moves". Like Psychic type above, Normal types were severely nerfed in second gen onwards.



** Regigigas falls under "Skill Overestimated". It has extremely high stats in nearly every category, but is hindered by its "Slow Start" ability, which halves its attack and speed until it stays in battle for five straight turns. Unfortunately, five turns is more than enough time for your opponent to take advantage of, and switching out resets the timer, so once Regigigas is sent out in battle you have to keep it there, which takes away a big part of battle strategy. To make matters worse, to try and make it even more "balanced", it is the only Pokémon who can learn [=TMs=] that is unable to learn Protect or Rest, two moves that could normally help it try and stall for time. In the end, the game designers went way too far in trying to balance Regigigas's power, and it ended up becoming useless instead.
** Gen VI brought certain Mega Evolutions and abilities which indirectly gave a power boost to moves with priority, which falls under "Skill Underestimated". Mega Lucario can use powerful Bullet Punches. Talonflame has priority Brave Birds (an attack 3 times stronger than the typical priority move). Azumarill has now one of the best typings in the game and can use Aqua Jet with a hefty Attack Power. Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Mawile can OHKO the vast majority of attackers with Sucker Punch. Mega Pinsir can use it's ability to boost quick attacks to insanely high powe levels. Pokemon who would be viable sweepers now suffer if they don't carry any type of priority attack.

to:

** Regigigas falls under "Skill Overestimated". It has extremely high stats in nearly every category, but is hindered by its "Slow Start" ability, which halves its attack and speed until it stays in battle for five straight turns. Unfortunately, Unfortunately for the trainer, five turns is more than enough time for your opponent to take advantage of, and switching out resets the timer, so once Regigigas is sent out in battle you have to keep it there, which takes away a big part of battle strategy. To make matters worse, to try and make it even more "balanced", it is the only Pokémon who can learn [=TMs=] that is unable to learn Protect or Rest, two moves that could normally help it try and stall for time. In the end, the game designers went way too far in trying to balance Regigigas's power, and it ended up becoming useless instead.
** Gen VI brought certain Mega Evolutions and abilities which indirectly gave a power boost to moves with priority, which falls under "Skill Underestimated". Mega Lucario can use particularly powerful Bullet Punches. Talonflame has priority Brave Birds (an attack 3 times stronger than the typical priority move). Azumarill has now one of the best typings in the game and can use Aqua Jet with a hefty Attack Power. Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Mawile can OHKO the vast majority of attackers with Sucker Punch. Mega Pinsir can use it's its ability to boost quick attacks Quick Attacks to insanely high powe power levels. Pokemon who would be viable sweepers now suffer if they don't carry any type of priority attack.



** Aliens are ridiculously overpowered. They only have to spend points to create units once (assuming the Queen never needs to fight), and their unit cap is incredibly large (As expected from a race of zerg rushers). The fact that every unit only costs one supply only allows then to get even more numbers.

to:

** Aliens are ridiculously overpowered.powerful. They only have to spend points to create units once (assuming the Queen never needs to fight), and their unit cap is incredibly large (As expected from a race of zerg rushers). The fact that every unit only costs one supply only allows then to get even more numbers.



** The Spathi Eluder manages to achieve this in ''both directions''. Against the A.I., the Spathi is massively overpowered; the A.I. stupidly chases a fleeing player around, and the Spathi shoots homing missiles from behind, so many A.I. controlled ships can be easily decimated by the Spathi. Against humans who know better than to blindly chase around the other ship, however, the Spathi's rear-facing missile is pretty much useless because of its slow speed.

to:

** The Spathi Eluder manages to achieve this in ''both directions''. Against the A.I., the Spathi is massively overpowered; overpowering; the A.I. stupidly chases a fleeing player around, and the Spathi shoots homing missiles from behind, so many A.I. controlled ships can be easily decimated by the Spathi. Against humans who know better than to blindly chase around the other ship, however, the Spathi's rear-facing missile is pretty much useless because of its slow speed.
16th Jul '16 1:03:51 PM DoctorTItanX
Is there an issue? Send a Message
This list shows the last 10 events of 375. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.FakeBalance