History Main / FakeBalance

11th Sep '17 6:45:50 PM GoblinCipher
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* Inverted in ''VideoGame/SpaceJam'' where all the Mon Stars have much worse stats compared to the Toons (who have Michael Jordon, a MasterOfAll, and Bugs Bunny who comes pretty close). However the Mon Stars are all ''huge'', meaning they make up for it purely for having much larger hitboxes and thus a much easier time getting their hands on the ball. Anyone going in with a team of Michael, Bugs, and Lola will find they're actually pretty evenly matched against any combination of Mon Stars since while the Toons are much better at shooting the ball, they won't get as many shots as the Mon Stars.

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* Inverted in ''VideoGame/SpaceJam'' where all the Mon Stars have much worse stats compared to the Toons (who have Michael Jordon, Jordan, a MasterOfAll, and Bugs Bunny who comes pretty close). However the Mon Stars are all ''huge'', meaning they make up for it purely for having much larger hitboxes and thus a much easier time getting their hands on the ball. Anyone going in with a team of Michael, Bugs, and Lola will find they're actually pretty evenly matched against any combination of Mon Stars since while the Toons are much better at shooting the ball, they won't get as many shots as the Mon Stars.
1st Sep '17 11:30:24 AM HasturHasturHastur
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* '''Balance through MinMaxing''': Badly-designed or poorly-aged characters and items are often extremely difficult to properly balance without significant overhauls or complete redos because they simply do not fit in the context of the game. A cheap and easy fix (and one that is a dead giveaway for devs who don't know what the hell to do with the character or item) is to bloat or gut its numbers. This seldom works because the issues are generally structural, not numerical, and it usually results in a TierInducedScrappy because the character or item is overtuned (if good) or completely useless (if bad).
25th Aug '17 6:25:38 PM MBG
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** And Counterplay-Based Balance is swiftly becoming a worry, as more and more cards come out with some sort of protection effect. For instance, initially monsters had few protection effects and were easily destroyed by targeting destruction. Then monsters immune to destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found targeting removal cards. [[LensmanArmsRace Then monsters immune to targeting and destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found non-targeting removal cards.]] The current status is with monsters that are flat-out immune to all card effects, resulting in the Kaiju archetype, which tributes monsters from the opponent's field as part of their summoning condition [[LoopholeAbuse (which is not an effect)]]. And now, some players run the [[BreakOutTheMuseumPiece sixteen-year-old card]] Mask of Restrict that stops Tributes...

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** And Counterplay-Based Balance is swiftly becoming a worry, as more and more cards come out with some sort of protection effect. For instance, initially monsters had few protection effects and were easily destroyed by targeting destruction. Then monsters immune to destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found targeting removal cards. [[LensmanArmsRace Then monsters immune to targeting and destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found non-targeting removal cards.]] The current status is with monsters that are flat-out immune to all card effects, resulting in the Kaiju archetype, which tributes monsters from the opponent's field as part of their summoning condition [[LoopholeAbuse (which is not an effect)]]. And now, some players run the [[BreakOutTheMuseumPiece sixteen-year-old card]] Mask of Restrict to stop Tributes...
** For most of the ''Arc-V'' era, there was an attempt to give roughly equal support to Xyz, Fusions, and Synchros, with Pendulums being intended as support for the group as a whole. The problem is, Xyz's requirements (two monsters of the same level) happen to be far more flexible than Fusion (two specific monsters and a card to fuse them) or Synchro (one specific monster and another one or two with the right levels), meaning they can be used in almost any Deck while Fusion and Synchro require specific support. Even Fusion or Synchro-focused decks, such as [=ABCs=], frequently leaned heavily on an Xyz engine, because they were just
that stops Tributes...much easier to bring out. In addition, Pendulums happen to be much more helpful to Xyz playstyle, since most Xyz are based around having a small number of mid-level monsters on the field, which is what Pendulum is designed to do (most Fusion decks get nothing out of having their materials on the field, and most Synchro decks rely on bringing out monsters too low-level to be easily Pendulumed). Xyz also have the native advantage of being immune to Level-based effects, and their supposed "downside" of only being able to activate their effects a few times was mostly used to justify giving them better effects than their counterparts, in a game where they would usually only use their effects once anyway. To cap it off, Xyz have access to a much more extensive toolbox, since any two Level 4s can turn into any Rank 4, while other archetypes usually have only one or two cards they can easily call out in a given situation. The result was that the ''Arc-V'' era was mostly dominated by Xyz-focused decks or Pendulum-focused decks that mostly used Xyz, with Fusions and Synchros only achieving intermittent fame in the form of specific archetypes or slumming as [[SkillGateCharacter rogue decks]] before being swiftly banned. It's probably why the ''VRAINS'' era seems to have ditched any idea of balancing the group, and just made Link monsters strictly better than their counterparts.
23rd Aug '17 12:28:31 PM MBG
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** And by a similar token, some players attempt to argue that the problem can be circumvented by the use of antimagic fields, which shut down all spells and magic items in their area. The problem is, antimagic fields are designed to be incredibly rare in most settings, [[KryptoniteIsEverywhere stretching the belief that they could be a common problem]] (only a handful of monsters can use them, and though it's a spell, few wizards would cast it because it would shut them down), pretty much every class relies on magic abilities or magic items to some degree (paladin divine abilities, [[MagicMusic bardsong]], fighter [[InfinityPlusOneSword magic swords]]), casters can [[BroughtDownToBadass still]] often fight in antimagic fields (the druid's [[TheBeastmaster animal companion]] is totally unaffected, as are [[SummonMagic summoned or bound demons]] or crafted {{golem}}s, not to mention animated undead from {{necromancer}}s), and even if it did shut down a wizard entirely, only affected the wizard, and was common enough to prevent abuse, it wouldn't make the game fun, because now the wizard can't do anything.
28th Jul '17 9:30:08 PM NumberFortyFour
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* ''VideoGame/SonicR'': Theoretically, Sonic is the [[FragileSpeedster fastest]], Knuckles is the [[JackOfAllStats most balanced racer]], Tails is the third fastest but has the advantage of flight, and Amy is the slowest but happens to drive a car that can drive on water. Eggman is unlockable and is similar to Amy but with the ability to fire homing missiles. However,actually playing the game you'll see that the CPUs fall into pretty much the same pattern every time: Knuckles in first, Sonic in second, Tails in third, Eggman in fourth, and Amy in dead last. To start, Amy's ability of drive on water really only matters at all in one out of the five courses in the game, is not even that much of a speed boost over Knuckles ability to glide over the water, and is later rendered moot by the unlockable robo versions of the characters who can also travel across water. Speaking of Knuckles, his glide is faster and has a much longer range than tails's flight, making Tails all but pointless. As for the robo versions of the characters, the Tails Doll character is by far the best traveling across water, making the one course where this allows a major shortcut a cheap win if you play as it. Finally, don't even try to race against someone playing as [[SuperMode Supersonic]] in multiplayer, as this will inevitably be pointless.
28th Jul '17 9:12:01 PM NumberFortyFour
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** [[ObviousBeta Given it's reputation for lacking polish,]] it's not that surprising that the multiplayer mode of Sonic 06 had balance issues. Sonic is almost twice as Shadow in this game, which is artificially "balanced" by the fact that the hypersensitive controls make it almost impossible for an inexperienced player to even control Sonic in the first place. Silver is so much slower than both that he'd be easily lapped if racing traditionally, but actually manages to be the cheapest character due to his ability to [[MindOverMatter freeze the other player at the beginning of the level indefinitely,]] as long as you avoid enemies so that you never have to let go to grab a new target. In summary, it's a wonder that anyone even thought that a racing mode for these characters would be a good idea, though a traditional battle mode for multiplayer had the potential to be even worse.
16th Jul '17 11:59:53 PM MBG
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** The Francise/{{Pokemon}} Trainer's team in ''Brawl'' is designed to duplicate his home franchise's ElementalRockPaperScissors, with Charizard taking more knockback from water-based moves, Squirtle from grass-based moves, and Ivysaur from fire-based moves (while taking less from grass, fire, and water, respectively). The problem is that outside of those three (and [[PowerCopying Kirby]]), only one character (Mario) uses a single water-based move, and absolutely no characters use grass-based moves, while fire-based moves are pretty common, and plenty of them are already powerful enough to be a KO move. The sum of this is that outside of mirror matches, the mechanic only serves to make Ivysaur [[TierInducedScrappy even worse]].
2nd Jul '17 12:31:21 AM MBG
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* A textbook example of fake balance was present in the old ''VideoGame/{{Asteroids}}''-like Mac game ''Asterax''. The player can choose one of three ships: [[JackOfAllStats the Manta]], which had mediocre everything; [[MightyGlacier the Crab]], which had good guns and shields but tiny engines; and [[FragileSpeedster the Mantis]], which had good engines but tiny guns and shields. The problem with this arrangement came in the form of the game's item shop selling guns, engines and shields, which meant that a Crab pilot could upgrade away their ship's sole deficiency with a single purchase, while Manta and Mantis pilots would need to buy two or three upgrades to reach the same level of effectiveness. Not to mention, as you might expect in an Asteroids game, "better" (i.e. faster) engines can make the game [[NonIndicativeDifficulty harder instead of easier]] anyway.

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* A textbook example of fake balance was present in the old ''VideoGame/{{Asteroids}}''-like Mac game ''Asterax''. The player can choose one of three ships: [[JackOfAllStats the Manta]], Moth]], which had mediocre everything; [[MightyGlacier the Crab]], which had good guns and shields but tiny engines; and [[FragileSpeedster the Mantis]], which had good engines but tiny guns and shields. The problem with this arrangement came in the form of the game's item shop selling guns, engines and shields, which meant that a Crab pilot could upgrade away their ship's sole deficiency with a single purchase, while Manta Moth and Mantis pilots would need to buy two or three upgrades to reach the same level of effectiveness. Not to mention, as you might expect in an Asteroids game, "better" (i.e. faster) engines can make the game [[NonIndicativeDifficulty harder instead of easier]] anyway.



** Luck-Based Balance is kind of to be expected, considering it's a card game and therefore reliant on drawing shuffled cards, but certain cards press this even further. Sixth Sense (pick two numbers, roll a die, if the die hits one of those numbers you draw that many cards) was a notorious one, as it basically meant a one in three chance to draw five or six cards, more than enough for any deck to win the game afterward. Pot of Desires (banish ten cards from your deck, draw two cards) is the biggest current offender, since the cards it banishes are random - entire games have been decided on whether someone banished a vital card they were planning to search or not.

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** Luck-Based Balance is kind of to be expected, considering it's a card game and therefore reliant on drawing shuffled cards, but certain cards press this even further. Most gamble-based cards are silly, fun, and underpowered, but Sixth Sense (pick two numbers, roll a die, if the die hits one of those numbers you draw that many cards) was a notorious one, as it basically meant a one in three chance to draw five or six cards, more than enough for any deck to win the game afterward. Pot of Desires (banish ten cards from your deck, draw two cards) is the biggest current offender, since the cards it banishes are random - entire games have been decided on whether someone banished a vital card they were planning to search or not.



** Skill-Based Advantage is shown heavily in Synchro or Link-heavy decks, where you need to be able to commit to memory dozens of different plays and carefully manage the levels and arrangements of your monsters to do anything particularly impressive. Pull it off, though, and you usually wind up with an unbreakable field and five or six negation cards on board.

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** Skill-Based Advantage is shown heavily quite frequently in Synchro or Link-heavy decks, where you need to be able to commit to memory dozens of different plays and carefully manage the levels and arrangements of your monsters to do anything particularly impressive. Pull it off, though, and you usually wind up with an unbreakable field and five or six negation cards on board.
1st Jul '17 8:54:06 PM MBG
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** And Counterplay-Based Balance is swiftly becoming a worry, as more and more cards come out with some sort of protection effect. For instance, initially monsters had few protection effects and were easily destroyed by targeting destruction. Then monsters immune to destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found targeting removal cards. [[LensmanArmsRace Then monsters immune to targeting and destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found non-targeting removal cards.]] The current status is with monsters that are flat-out immune to all card effects, resulting in the Kaiju archetype, which tributes monsters from the opponent's field as part of their summoning condition [[LoopholeAbuse (which is not an effect)]] And now, some players run the [[BreakOutTheMuseumPiece sixteen-year-old card]] Mask of Restrict that stops Tributes...

to:

** And Counterplay-Based Balance is swiftly becoming a worry, as more and more cards come out with some sort of protection effect. For instance, initially monsters had few protection effects and were easily destroyed by targeting destruction. Then monsters immune to destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found targeting removal cards. [[LensmanArmsRace Then monsters immune to targeting and destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found non-targeting removal cards.]] The current status is with monsters that are flat-out immune to all card effects, resulting in the Kaiju archetype, which tributes monsters from the opponent's field as part of their summoning condition [[LoopholeAbuse (which is not an effect)]] effect)]]. And now, some players run the [[BreakOutTheMuseumPiece sixteen-year-old card]] Mask of Restrict that stops Tributes...
1st Jul '17 8:53:29 PM MBG
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** The Evilswarm/Verz deck demonstrated both Unbalanced Moveset and Situational Advantage. Evilswarms had about four or five worthwhile Main Deck cards, but nothing was forcing you to use anything besides those four or five cards - cue lots of decks that were "[[ComplacentGamingSyndrome 3 Heliotrope, 3 Kerykion, 3 Castor, 3 Mandragora, 3 Thunderbird]]". It also featured Evilswarm Ophion, a very easy-to-summon card that locked out the opponent from Special Summoning anything above Level 5 - completely meaningless to Rank 4 or lower XYZ-based decks, but debilitating to Synchros, Fusions, most non-Extra Deck users, and higher-Ranked decks. This meant that Evilswarms would either almost always win or usually lose, depending solely on your choice of summoning type.
** GX was full of Overestimated Ability, with the Neo-Spacians being probably the worst case of it. Fusing with monsters on the field without a specific Fusion card was an interesting idea... but make the required monsters either weak or weak and hard to summon, give the archetype no real way of resolving this, make the Fusion unimpressive in its own right and not much better than its components, and make the Fusion dependent on a Field Spell to not [[HourOfPower vanish at the end of your turn]], and you have an archetype that [[CCGImportanceDissonance really stacked up poorly to its hype.]] Many AwesomeButImpractical boss monsters also became this.
** Luck-Based Balance is kind of to be expected, considering it's a card game and therefore reliant on drawing shuffled cards, but certain cards press this even further. Sixth Sense (pick two numbers, roll a die, if the die hits one of those numbers you draw that many cards) was a notorious one, as it basically meant a one in three chance to draw five or six cards, more than enough for any deck to win the game afterward. Pot of Desires (banish ten cards from your deck, draw two cards) is the biggest current offender, since the cards it banishes are random - entire games have been decided on whether someone banished a vital card they were planning to search or not.
** OTK/FTK decks combine the above with Fragile Advantage. They're generally reliant on being able to pull off a specific combo that wins in a single turn. If they can't pull off that combo, they crumble in no time flat because of CripplingOverspecialization. Consequently, most of whether they win or not is reliant on whether they can draw the right cards to set it up.
** Skill-Based Advantage is shown heavily in Synchro or Link-heavy decks, where you need to be able to commit to memory dozens of different plays and carefully manage the levels and arrangements of your monsters to do anything particularly impressive. Pull it off, though, and you usually wind up with an unbreakable field and five or six negation cards on board.
** And Counterplay-Based Balance is swiftly becoming a worry, as more and more cards come out with some sort of protection effect. For instance, initially monsters had few protection effects and were easily destroyed by targeting destruction. Then monsters immune to destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found targeting removal cards. [[LensmanArmsRace Then monsters immune to targeting and destruction came out, and were unstoppable, then players found non-targeting removal cards.]] The current status is with monsters that are flat-out immune to all card effects, resulting in the Kaiju archetype, which tributes monsters from the opponent's field as part of their summoning condition [[LoopholeAbuse (which is not an effect)]] And now, some players run the [[BreakOutTheMuseumPiece sixteen-year-old card]] Mask of Restrict that stops Tributes...
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