History Main / ExaltedTorturer

27th Oct '17 5:43:05 AM IdumeanPatriot
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* ''Literature/{{Victoria}}'' has a somewhat downplayed example with protagonist John Rumford, who doesn't torture anyone himself, but approves and even attends the torture of the Delta Force operators who murdered Governor Adams. This is treated very much as DirtyBusiness, but still portrayed as [[IDidWhatIHadToDo right]].
15th Sep '17 9:59:00 PM Doug86
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* ''XenaWarriorPrincess'' used to torture random low-level enemies by paralyzing them and threatening their life (by metaphorically slitting their veins and withholding help until they talk.) this was never presented as ethically problematic in any way.

to:

* ''XenaWarriorPrincess'' ''Series/XenaWarriorPrincess'' used to torture random low-level enemies by paralyzing them and threatening their life (by metaphorically slitting their veins and withholding help until they talk.) this was never presented as ethically problematic in any way.
7th Aug '17 3:42:53 PM Cifer
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-> '''Tess:''' "Guess what, we're shitty people, Joel."

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-> --> '''Tess:''' "Guess what, we're shitty people, Joel."
7th Aug '17 3:42:34 PM Cifer
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* Joel from ''VideoGame/TheLastOfUs'' won't hesitate to brutally torture {{Mooks}} for information after [[spoiler:Ellie gets imprisoned by David's gang]]. It's heavily implied he's quite experienced in the JackBauerInterrogationTechnique.

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* Joel from ''VideoGame/TheLastOfUs'' won't hesitate to brutally torture {{Mooks}} for information after [[spoiler:Ellie gets imprisoned by David's gang]]. It's heavily implied he's quite experienced in the JackBauerInterrogationTechnique. To quote his longtime partner:
-> '''Tess:''' "Guess what, we're shitty people, Joel."
5th Aug '17 10:28:28 AM ACW
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* The titular heroine in ''Wynonna Earp'' has zero scruples torturing revenants (read: undead criminals who are slowly turning into demons; some of them are [[CompleteMonster truly awful]], but others are people who just got in whith the wrong crowd and don't want to go back to Hell were Wyatt Earp's curse sent them to) - in fact, she's downright cheerful about it. And yet, we're not supposed to see her as a HeroicSociopath. [[SubvertedTrope In a subversion]], it's her friend/superior with the actual military / law enforcement training who makes it clear to her that torture does not result in "actionable intelligence". However, when Wynonna tries to beat information out of someone, she [[ZigZaggedTrope generally succeeds.]]
* The heroes in ''Ripper Street'' often engage in PoliceBrutality against suspects, due to historical ValuesDissonance. For the most part, this is not supposed to be seen as okay by the audience, and at least Drake develops scruples about this over the course of the first couple of seasons. After that, they mostly rely on threats of violence, or torture CompleteMonster victims. (For example, Reid - who is normally presented as very civil and unusually "modern" for his time - half-drowns a young teenage boy who'd been pimping and raping underage girls, including Reid's daughter.) But still, even near the end of the show, Reid cruelly withholds morphine from a long-term [[AssholeVictim adversary]] of his who's suffering from terminal brain cancer and is in extreme pain. It's not so much sadism as vengefulness and rage issues that make up kind of a persistant character flaw for this normally very mild-mannered and empathetic police officer.

to:

* The titular heroine in ''Wynonna Earp'' has zero scruples torturing revenants (read: undead criminals who are slowly turning into demons; some of them are [[CompleteMonster truly awful]], awful, but others are people who just got in whith the wrong crowd and don't want to go back to Hell were Wyatt Earp's curse sent them to) - in fact, she's downright cheerful about it. And yet, we're not supposed to see her as a HeroicSociopath. [[SubvertedTrope In a subversion]], it's her friend/superior with the actual military / law enforcement training who makes it clear to her that torture does not result in "actionable intelligence". However, when Wynonna tries to beat information out of someone, she [[ZigZaggedTrope generally succeeds.]]
* The heroes in ''Ripper Street'' often engage in PoliceBrutality against suspects, due to historical ValuesDissonance. For the most part, this is not supposed to be seen as okay by the audience, and at least Drake develops scruples about this over the course of the first couple of seasons. After that, they mostly rely on threats of violence, or torture CompleteMonster victims.{{Asshole Victim}}s. (For example, Reid - who is normally presented as very civil and unusually "modern" for his time - half-drowns a young teenage boy who'd been pimping and raping underage girls, including Reid's daughter.) But still, even near the end of the show, Reid cruelly withholds morphine from a long-term [[AssholeVictim adversary]] of his who's suffering from terminal brain cancer and is in extreme pain. It's not so much sadism as vengefulness and rage issues that make up kind of a persistant character flaw for this normally very mild-mannered and empathetic police officer.
31st Jul '17 1:16:01 AM VioletVisions
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* ''XenaTheWarriorPrincess'' routinely used to torture random low-level enemies by paralyzing them and threatening their life (by metaphorically slitting their veins and withholding help until they talk.) this was never presented as ethically problematic.

to:

* ''XenaTheWarriorPrincess'' routinely ''XenaWarriorPrincess'' used to torture random low-level enemies by paralyzing them and threatening their life (by metaphorically slitting their veins and withholding help until they talk.) this was never presented as ethically problematic.problematic in any way.



* ''((Killjoys))'' started out relatively 'normal', with Dutch (the main heroine) tying up and starving/dehydrating a most likely innocent random guy for days, and roughing him up as well, just to find out why her mentor had sent her to assassinate him. This was probably meant to show that her mentor almost succeded in making her a sociopath by training her to kill from an early age, and she does hate that part of herself in general, even if she doesn't angst about this incident in particular. And in an episode where it turns out that an interplanetary military force, which Dav'in once proudly served, routinely (and horrifically) tortures prisoners, the team of heroes seems appalled by this, though not surprised. And Dutch seems to disapprove when she finds out that the local police force has beaten one of her friends (who the police thinks is a terrorist) to get information on his resistance organisation. But then the "good guys" bring in some villain mooks (who've been turned psychopathic and inhuman, but most likely ''not'' voluntarily) to one of their allies to be tortured for information as well. Said ally is presented as a bit of a jerk, but honest and morally more decent than most people in their CrapsackWorld. And Pree (gay man; best friend of the heroes) stabs a bully through his hand in order to intimidate him enough that he'll stop trying to take over Pree's bar. This is presented as perfectly okay and not DisproportionateRetribution (one of the heroes had also broken the guy's leg earlier), and the bully becomes a much more well-adjusted human being as a result, as well as falling in love with Pree. And then there was the scene in which Dav'in and said ex-bully torture a fellow killjoy (who was doing a perfectly legitimate job - which involved arresting Dav'in's brother Johnny - and who is later characterized as a pretty decent guy) by repeatedly dropping him on his head, in order to find out where the killjoy was supposed to deliver Johnny. This last is presented like it's ''funny''...
* The titular heroine in ''Wynonna Earp'' has zero scruples torturing revenants (read: undead criminals who are slowly turning into demons; some of them are CompleteMonsters, but others are people who just got in whith the wrong crowd and don't want to go back to the Hell were Wyatt Earp's curse sent them to) - in fact, she's downright cheerful about it. And yet, we're not supposed to see her as a HeroicSociopath. [[SubvertedTrope In a subversion]], it's her friend/superior with the actual military / law enforcement training who makes it clear to her that torture does not result in "actionable information". However, when Wynonna tries to beat information out of someone, she [[ZigZaggedTrope generally succeeds.]]
* The heroes in ''Ripper Street'' often engage in police brutality, due to historical ValuesDissonance. For the most part, this is not supposed to be seen as okay by the audience, and at least Drake develops scruples about this over the course of the first couple of seasons. After that, they mostly rely on threats of violence, or torture CompleteMonster victims. (For example, Reid - who is normally presented as very civil and unusually "modern" for his time - half-drowns a young teenage boy who'd been pimping and raping underage girls, including Reid's daughter.) But still, even near the end of the show, Reid cruelly withholds morphine from a long-term [[AssholeVictim adversary]] of his who's suffering from terminal brain cancer and is in extreme pain. It's not so much sadism as vengefulness and rage issues that make up kind of a persistant character flaw for this normally very mild-mannered and empathetic police officer.

to:

* ''((Killjoys))'' ''{{Killjoys}}'' started out relatively 'normal', with Dutch (the main heroine) tying up and starving/dehydrating a most likely innocent random guy for days, and roughing him up as well, just to find out why her mentor had sent her to assassinate him. This was probably meant to show that her mentor almost succeded in making her a sociopath by training her to kill from an early age, and she does hate that part of herself in general, even if she doesn't angst about this incident in particular. And in an episode where it turns out that an interplanetary military force, which Dav'in once proudly served, routinely (and horrifically) tortures prisoners, the team of heroes seems appalled by this, though not surprised. And Dutch seems to disapprove when she finds out that the local police force has beaten one of her friends (who the police thinks is a terrorist) to get information on his resistance organisation. But then the "good guys" bring in some villain mooks (who've been turned psychopathic and inhuman, but most likely ''not'' voluntarily) to one of their allies to be tortured for information as well. Said ally is presented as a bit of a jerk, but honest and morally more decent than most people in their CrapsackWorld. And Pree (gay man; best friend of the heroes) stabs a bully through his hand in order to intimidate him enough that he'll stop trying to take over Pree's bar. This is presented as perfectly okay and not DisproportionateRetribution (one of the heroes had also broken the guy's leg earlier), and the bully becomes a much more well-adjusted human being as a result, as well as falling in love with Pree. And then there was the scene in which Dav'in and said ex-bully torture a fellow killjoy (who was doing a perfectly legitimate job - which involved arresting Dav'in's brother Johnny - and who is later characterized as a pretty decent guy) by repeatedly dropping him on his head, in order to find out where the killjoy was supposed to deliver Johnny. This last is presented like it's ''funny''...
* The titular heroine in ''Wynonna Earp'' has zero scruples torturing revenants (read: undead criminals who are slowly turning into demons; some of them are CompleteMonsters, [[CompleteMonster truly awful]], but others are people who just got in whith the wrong crowd and don't want to go back to the Hell were Wyatt Earp's curse sent them to) - in fact, she's downright cheerful about it. And yet, we're not supposed to see her as a HeroicSociopath. [[SubvertedTrope In a subversion]], it's her friend/superior with the actual military / law enforcement training who makes it clear to her that torture does not result in "actionable information".intelligence". However, when Wynonna tries to beat information out of someone, she [[ZigZaggedTrope generally succeeds.]]
* The heroes in ''Ripper Street'' often engage in police brutality, PoliceBrutality against suspects, due to historical ValuesDissonance. For the most part, this is not supposed to be seen as okay by the audience, and at least Drake develops scruples about this over the course of the first couple of seasons. After that, they mostly rely on threats of violence, or torture CompleteMonster victims. (For example, Reid - who is normally presented as very civil and unusually "modern" for his time - half-drowns a young teenage boy who'd been pimping and raping underage girls, including Reid's daughter.) But still, even near the end of the show, Reid cruelly withholds morphine from a long-term [[AssholeVictim adversary]] of his who's suffering from terminal brain cancer and is in extreme pain. It's not so much sadism as vengefulness and rage issues that make up kind of a persistant character flaw for this normally very mild-mannered and empathetic police officer.
31st Jul '17 1:07:37 AM VioletVisions
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* ''Series/Killjoys'' started out relatively 'normal', with Dutch (the main heroine) tying up and starving/dehydrating a most likely innocent random guy for days, and roughing him up as well, just to find out why her mentor had sent her to assassinate him. This was probably meant to show that her mentor almost succeded in making her a sociopath by training her to kill from an early age, and she does hate that part of herself in general, even if she doesn't angst about this incident in particular. And in an episode where it turns out that an interplanetary military force, which Dav'in once proudly served, routinely (and horrifically) tortures prisoners, the team of heroes seems appalled by this, though not surprised. And Dutch seems to disapprove when she finds out that the local police force has beaten one of her friends (who the police thinks is a terrorist) to get information on his resistance oranisation. But then the "good guys" bring in some villain mooks (who've been turned psychopathic and inhuman, but most likely ''not'' voluntarily) to one of their allies to be tortured for information as well. Said ally is presented as a bit of a jerk, but honest and morally more decent than most people in their CrapsackWorld. And Pree (gay man; best friend of the heroes) stabs a bully through his hand in order to intimidate him enough that he'll stop trying to take over Pree's bar. This is presented as perfectly okay and not DisproportionateRetribution (one of the heroes had also broken the guy's leg earlier), and the bully becomes a much more well-adjusted human being as a result, as well as falling in love with Pree. And then there was the scene in which Dav'in and said ex-bully torture a fellow killjoy (who was doing a perfectly legitimate job - which involved arresting Dav'in's brother Johnny - and who is later characterized as a pretty decent guy) by repeatedly dropping him on his head, in order to find out where the killjoy was supposed to deliver Johnny. This last is presented like it's ''funny''...

to:

* ''Series/Killjoys'' ''XenaTheWarriorPrincess'' routinely used to torture random low-level enemies by paralyzing them and threatening their life (by metaphorically slitting their veins and withholding help until they talk.) this was never presented as ethically problematic.
--> '''Xena''': I've just stopped the blood flow to your brain. You have 10 seconds to tell me...
* ''((Killjoys))''
started out relatively 'normal', with Dutch (the main heroine) tying up and starving/dehydrating a most likely innocent random guy for days, and roughing him up as well, just to find out why her mentor had sent her to assassinate him. This was probably meant to show that her mentor almost succeded in making her a sociopath by training her to kill from an early age, and she does hate that part of herself in general, even if she doesn't angst about this incident in particular. And in an episode where it turns out that an interplanetary military force, which Dav'in once proudly served, routinely (and horrifically) tortures prisoners, the team of heroes seems appalled by this, though not surprised. And Dutch seems to disapprove when she finds out that the local police force has beaten one of her friends (who the police thinks is a terrorist) to get information on his resistance oranisation.organisation. But then the "good guys" bring in some villain mooks (who've been turned psychopathic and inhuman, but most likely ''not'' voluntarily) to one of their allies to be tortured for information as well. Said ally is presented as a bit of a jerk, but honest and morally more decent than most people in their CrapsackWorld. And Pree (gay man; best friend of the heroes) stabs a bully through his hand in order to intimidate him enough that he'll stop trying to take over Pree's bar. This is presented as perfectly okay and not DisproportionateRetribution (one of the heroes had also broken the guy's leg earlier), and the bully becomes a much more well-adjusted human being as a result, as well as falling in love with Pree. And then there was the scene in which Dav'in and said ex-bully torture a fellow killjoy (who was doing a perfectly legitimate job - which involved arresting Dav'in's brother Johnny - and who is later characterized as a pretty decent guy) by repeatedly dropping him on his head, in order to find out where the killjoy was supposed to deliver Johnny. This last is presented like it's ''funny''...''funny''...
* The titular heroine in ''Wynonna Earp'' has zero scruples torturing revenants (read: undead criminals who are slowly turning into demons; some of them are CompleteMonsters, but others are people who just got in whith the wrong crowd and don't want to go back to the Hell were Wyatt Earp's curse sent them to) - in fact, she's downright cheerful about it. And yet, we're not supposed to see her as a HeroicSociopath. [[SubvertedTrope In a subversion]], it's her friend/superior with the actual military / law enforcement training who makes it clear to her that torture does not result in "actionable information". However, when Wynonna tries to beat information out of someone, she [[ZigZaggedTrope generally succeeds.]]
* The heroes in ''Ripper Street'' often engage in police brutality, due to historical ValuesDissonance. For the most part, this is not supposed to be seen as okay by the audience, and at least Drake develops scruples about this over the course of the first couple of seasons. After that, they mostly rely on threats of violence, or torture CompleteMonster victims. (For example, Reid - who is normally presented as very civil and unusually "modern" for his time - half-drowns a young teenage boy who'd been pimping and raping underage girls, including Reid's daughter.) But still, even near the end of the show, Reid cruelly withholds morphine from a long-term [[AssholeVictim adversary]] of his who's suffering from terminal brain cancer and is in extreme pain. It's not so much sadism as vengefulness and rage issues that make up kind of a persistant character flaw for this normally very mild-mannered and empathetic police officer.
31st Jul '17 12:25:39 AM VioletVisions
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Added DiffLines:

* ''Series/Killjoys'' started out relatively 'normal', with Dutch (the main heroine) tying up and starving/dehydrating a most likely innocent random guy for days, and roughing him up as well, just to find out why her mentor had sent her to assassinate him. This was probably meant to show that her mentor almost succeded in making her a sociopath by training her to kill from an early age, and she does hate that part of herself in general, even if she doesn't angst about this incident in particular. And in an episode where it turns out that an interplanetary military force, which Dav'in once proudly served, routinely (and horrifically) tortures prisoners, the team of heroes seems appalled by this, though not surprised. And Dutch seems to disapprove when she finds out that the local police force has beaten one of her friends (who the police thinks is a terrorist) to get information on his resistance oranisation. But then the "good guys" bring in some villain mooks (who've been turned psychopathic and inhuman, but most likely ''not'' voluntarily) to one of their allies to be tortured for information as well. Said ally is presented as a bit of a jerk, but honest and morally more decent than most people in their CrapsackWorld. And Pree (gay man; best friend of the heroes) stabs a bully through his hand in order to intimidate him enough that he'll stop trying to take over Pree's bar. This is presented as perfectly okay and not DisproportionateRetribution (one of the heroes had also broken the guy's leg earlier), and the bully becomes a much more well-adjusted human being as a result, as well as falling in love with Pree. And then there was the scene in which Dav'in and said ex-bully torture a fellow killjoy (who was doing a perfectly legitimate job - which involved arresting Dav'in's brother Johnny - and who is later characterized as a pretty decent guy) by repeatedly dropping him on his head, in order to find out where the killjoy was supposed to deliver Johnny. This last is presented like it's ''funny''...
12th Jun '17 11:00:26 PM intastiel
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* The Gray Guard PrestigeClass/Paragon Path from ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' was supposed to allow paladins the ability to go all Film/DirtyHarry on potential perpetrators without losing their alignment.

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* In ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'':
**
The Gray Guard PrestigeClass/Paragon Path from ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' was supposed to allow paladins the ability to go all Film/DirtyHarry on potential perpetrators without losing their alignment.alignment.
** The ''Book of Exalted Deeds'' has features that edge disturbingly close to this. Torturing an evildoer would be wrong, of course; but [[YourSoulIsMine tearing out their soul]], trapping it in a CrystalPrison, and magically twisting it until its CharacterAlignment matches yours in a bizarre inversion of BeingTorturedMakesYouEvil? Capital-G Good.
23rd Apr '17 8:44:38 PM Luigifan
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The Exalted Torturer is ''almost'' AlwaysMale possibly due to ValuesDissonance in how a woman would be handled--though several female examples can be found for both categories.

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The Exalted Torturer is ''almost'' AlwaysMale AlwaysMale, possibly due to ValuesDissonance in how a woman would be handled--though handled -- though several female examples can be found for both categories.



* ''ComicBook/SinCity'''s Marv not only does this to criminals but he loves it. There is an entire monologue in his first story about how much he enjoys what he's doing.
* The ComicBook/TheSpectre is known for torturing villains before killing them [[DeathByIrony in ironic ways]]. However, it's frequently brought up in-universe that [[WhatTheHellHero most other superheroes disagree with his methods]] and he's normally presented in a morally ambiguous light.

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* ''ComicBook/SinCity'''s Marv not only does this to criminals criminals, but he loves it. There is an entire monologue in his first story about how much he enjoys what he's doing.
* The ComicBook/TheSpectre is known for torturing villains before killing them [[DeathByIrony in ironic ways]]. However, it's frequently brought up in-universe that [[WhatTheHellHero most other superheroes disagree with his methods]] and he's normally presented in a morally ambiguous light.



* ''Film/TheDarkKnightSaga'' sets the following baseline for Batman: If you are a SmugSnake of a dirty cop, he won't hesitate to traumatize you and scare you half to death as a form of interrogation. If you're a crime lord holding out information on a madman going on a destructive rampage through his city, he will go even farther. If you ''are'' said madman and the clock is ticking on people's lives, he will start at bodily harm and beat you within an inch of your life if that's what it takes. The Joker sees all this and, with mixed awe and annoyance, declares him "incorruptible" (because he has only one rule, "no killing", and he won't break it).

to:

* ''Film/TheDarkKnightSaga'' sets the following baseline for Batman: If you are a SmugSnake of a dirty cop, he won't hesitate to traumatize you and scare you half to death as a form of interrogation. If you're a crime lord holding out information on a madman going on a destructive rampage through his city, he will go even farther. If you ''are'' said madman and the clock is ticking on people's lives, he will start '''start''' at bodily harm and beat you within an inch of your life if that's what it takes. The Joker sees all this and, with mixed awe and annoyance, declares him "incorruptible" (because he has only one rule, "no killing", and he won't break it).



* ''{{Film/Prisoners}}'' has a father resort to this, over the whole film, by torturing the main suspect to reveal where his missing daughter is being held.

to:

* ''{{Film/Prisoners}}'' has a father resort to this, over the whole film, by torturing the main suspect to reveal where his missing daughter is being held. [[spoiler:The BigBad is hoping he'll do this, as part of her sick, twisted scheme to take revenge on God.]]



* Elliot Stabler of ''Series/LawAndOrderSpecialVictimsUnit''. While he faces some in-show consequences, said consequences do nothing to stop him, his conduct crosses the line into PoliceBrutality, and a disturbingly large portion of fans of the show in RealLife assume that RealLife police are justified in engaging in such conduct with suspects [[SarcasmMode because when the accusation is vile enough there's no such thing as innocent until proven guilty]].
** While Stabler is the usual offender, when Rollins gets wounded and the son of Finn's former supervisor gets killed by an unknown assassin, it's treated as perfectly justified when Finn and Amaro go to a prison and torture the drug kingpin they suspect of ordering the hit, to the point of Finn being about [[EyeScream to gouge his eyes out]]...and the only thing that stops them is when the warden shows up to inform them the drug dealer's wife was just killed by the same assassin. They then move on like nothing had happened. In other words, [[SarcasmMode it's perfectly fine to torture somebody over a crime he didn't even commit, because he actually did commit a whole bunch of other crimes before that]].

to:

* Elliot Stabler of ''Series/LawAndOrderSpecialVictimsUnit''. While he faces some in-show consequences, said consequences do nothing to stop him, his conduct crosses the line into PoliceBrutality, and a disturbingly large portion of fans of the show in RealLife assume that RealLife police are justified in engaging in such conduct with suspects [[SarcasmMode because when the accusation is vile enough enough, there's no such thing as innocent until proven guilty]].
** While Stabler is the usual offender, when Rollins gets wounded and the son of Finn's former supervisor gets killed by an unknown assassin, it's treated as perfectly justified when Finn and Amaro go to a prison and torture the drug kingpin they suspect of ordering the hit, to the point of Finn being about [[EyeScream to gouge his eyes out]]...and the only thing that stops them is when the warden shows up to inform them that the drug dealer's wife was just killed by the same assassin. They then move on like nothing had happened. In other words, [[SarcasmMode it's perfectly fine to torture somebody over a crime he didn't even commit, because he actually did commit a whole bunch of other crimes before that]].



** Drogyn The Battlebrand, an immortal warrior on the side of good who acts as jailer to The Old Ones, casually admits he tortured a demon who attacked him late in season 5. This was to find out who sent it, and the demon was from a race of assassins so it's not considered an immoral act on Drogyn's part.[[spoiler:InvokedTrope as the employer was Angel, who was pretending to be evil, knew Drogyn would both defeat and torture the demon for the information, and wanted the information passed to his friends.]]
* Sayid from ''Series/{{Lost}}'', who used to be a professional torturer. He, like a number of other characters, spends time on both the Black and White sides of morality and pretty much everywhere inbetween, but he spends most of his time on the lighter side of grey.

to:

** Drogyn The Battlebrand, an immortal warrior on the side of good who acts as jailer to The Old Ones, casually admits he tortured a demon who attacked him late in season 5. This was to find out who sent it, and the demon was from a race of assassins assassins, so it's not considered an immoral act on Drogyn's part.[[spoiler:InvokedTrope as the employer was Angel, who was pretending to be evil, knew Drogyn would both defeat and torture the demon for the information, and wanted the information passed to his friends.]]
* Sayid from ''Series/{{Lost}}'', who used to be a professional torturer. He, like a number of other characters, spends time on both the Black and White sides of morality and pretty much everywhere inbetween, in between, but he spends most of his time on the lighter side of grey.



* In the ''Ksin'' saga, the royal torturer is that. He is a true master in causing pain and does his worst than he works -- but he also exemplifies HonorBeforeReason. Even though he knows that some things he does are unreasonable, he considers it a must in his position -- a torturer must be a paragon of honor or else he will be worse than a beast.

to:

* In the ''Ksin'' saga, the royal torturer is that. He is a true master in causing pain and does his worst than when he works -- but he also exemplifies HonorBeforeReason. Even though he knows that some things he does are unreasonable, he considers it a must in his position -- a torturer must be a paragon of honor or else he will be worse than a beast.
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