History Main / EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory

6th Feb '16 3:02:37 AM EOK
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typo
* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' has numerous prophesies, strange dreams, vivid imagery, and a fully-stocked ChekhovsArmoury. Naturally, parts of the fanbase have tried to derive meaning from nearly every word, from AnimalMotifs and [[MessianicArchetype Messianic Archetypes]] to off-hand comments and what the characters eat for dinner. They're actually quite creative with what they come up with, such as the infamous "[[http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96129-corn-code-revision-8-the-game-of-thrones-exposed Corn Code]]", when fans speculated that the repetition of certain words, especially the squawking of Joer Morment's pet raven, was actually a cryptogram that they could use to predict events in the series.
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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' has numerous prophesies, prophecies, strange dreams, vivid imagery, and a fully-stocked ChekhovsArmoury. Naturally, parts of the fanbase have tried to derive meaning from nearly every word, from AnimalMotifs and [[MessianicArchetype Messianic Archetypes]] to off-hand comments and what the characters eat for dinner. They're actually quite creative with what they come up with, such as the infamous "[[http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96129-corn-code-revision-8-the-game-of-thrones-exposed Corn Code]]", when fans speculated that the repetition of certain words, especially the squawking of Joer Morment's pet raven, was actually a cryptogram that they could use to predict events in the series.
23rd Jan '16 9:27:01 AM nombretomado
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* An in-universe example occurs in StephenKing's ''{{Literature/It}}'': when Bill Denbrough follows a writing course in college, he gets an instructor who keeps insisting that each story has deeper meanings and messages, be it political, religious etc. One day Bill has enough and finally stands up to his instructor, asking him point blank if it has ever occurred to him that sometimes a story can be just ''a story'', without socio-anything. His instructor disagrees.
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* An in-universe example occurs in StephenKing's Creator/StephenKing's ''{{Literature/It}}'': when Bill Denbrough follows a writing course in college, he gets an instructor who keeps insisting that each story has deeper meanings and messages, be it political, religious etc. One day Bill has enough and finally stands up to his instructor, asking him point blank if it has ever occurred to him that sometimes a story can be just ''a story'', without socio-anything. His instructor disagrees.
23rd Jan '16 7:28:01 AM IDunn0AnyM0r3
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Added South Park to the Examples
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* ''WesternAnimation/SouthPark'' When the boys write a book called "Scroty Mc Booger Balls" completely about making the most disgusting and disturbing story they can make, the general public believes there is a multitude of metaphors and symbolism built into it.
16th Jan '16 4:40:11 PM nombretomado
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* Somebody came up with the idea that the ComicBook/FantasticFour represent the four elements (Thing is Earth, Invisible Woman is Air, Human Torch is Fire (duh), and Mr. Fantastic is Water). This sounds like something that was developed retroactively. StanLee has no problem with being labeled a genius, so he hasn't discouraged this. It's lampshaded in the "Ultimate" version. The specific reasons why are in their entry in FourElementEnsemble
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* Somebody came up with the idea that the ComicBook/FantasticFour represent the four elements (Thing is Earth, Invisible Woman is Air, Human Torch is Fire (duh), and Mr. Fantastic is Water). This sounds like something that was developed retroactively. StanLee Creator/StanLee has no problem with being labeled a genius, so he hasn't discouraged this. It's lampshaded in the "Ultimate" version. The specific reasons why are in their entry in FourElementEnsemble
8th Jan '16 1:05:32 PM Willbyr
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** Creator/YoshitoshiABe was involved with ''Anime/SerialExperimentsLain'', ''Anime/HaibaneRenmei'', and ''{{Texhnolyze}}''. The person behind the story concepts was in fact the producer, Yasuyuki Ueda. The only one of the three where [=ABe=] contributed more than character designs was his pet project, ''Haibane Renmei''. Ueda and [=ABe=] later joked about this, saying that ''Anime/NieaUnder7'' and ''Haibane Renmei'' proved that [=ABe=] was the earnest and hardworking one.
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** Creator/YoshitoshiABe was involved with ''Anime/SerialExperimentsLain'', ''Anime/HaibaneRenmei'', and ''{{Texhnolyze}}''.''Anime/{{Texhnolyze}}''. The person behind the story concepts was in fact the producer, Yasuyuki Ueda. The only one of the three where [=ABe=] contributed more than character designs was his pet project, ''Haibane Renmei''. Ueda and [=ABe=] later joked about this, saying that ''Anime/NieaUnder7'' and ''Haibane Renmei'' proved that [=ABe=] was the earnest and hardworking one.

* ''OnePiece'' has spawned a good example of this trope:
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* ''OnePiece'' ''Manga/OnePiece'' has spawned a good example of this trope:

* ''TenchiMuyo'': Anybody who was part of the (in)famous TenchiFF mailing list at the proper time will remember one Mr. Grey, who argued that ''TenchiMuyo'' was all an allegory for an obscure form of Zen Taoism. According to Grey, Ryoko and Ayeka were each half a universe, Ryoko represented the Altruist, and Tenchi represented the [[NoodleImplements goat]].
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* ''TenchiMuyo'': ''Anime/TenchiMuyo'': Anybody who was part of the (in)famous TenchiFF mailing list at the proper time will remember one Mr. Grey, who argued that ''TenchiMuyo'' was all an allegory for an obscure form of Zen Taoism. According to Grey, Ryoko and Ayeka were each half a universe, Ryoko represented the Altruist, and Tenchi represented the [[NoodleImplements goat]].
4th Jan '16 5:18:55 PM Synch
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The concept of "the DeathOfTheAuthor" has helped this state of affairs as it encourages everyone to insist that their pet theories are entirely valid (with or without justification), regardless of how many times the [[WordOfGod author of the text clearly states his or her intentions in writing the work]], or, as in many cases, that the pet theory absolutely ''isn't'' the state of affairs at all. Death of the Author is effective because WordOfGod isn't always reliable; the author him/herself can decide the work means different ([[FlipFlopOfGod even contradictory]]) things and if there are ''multiple'' authors, it's perfectly possible for them to disagree on what the work means and so [[FrenchJerk whoever]] came up with the concept of "DeathOfTheAuthor" has a good point. This is what literary {{Postmodernism}} is about. [[SelfdemonstratingArticle Thus it is proven that the tyranny of God gives way to the freedom of man!]]
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The concept of "the DeathOfTheAuthor" has helped this state of affairs as it encourages everyone to insist that their pet theories are entirely valid (with or without justification), regardless of how many times the [[WordOfGod author of the text clearly states his or her intentions in writing the work]], or, as in many cases, that the pet theory absolutely ''isn't'' the state of affairs at all. Death of the Author is effective because WordOfGod isn't always reliable; the author him/herself can decide the work means different ([[FlipFlopOfGod even (even [[FlipFlopOfGod contradictory]]) things and if there are ''multiple'' authors, it's perfectly possible for them to disagree on what the work means and so [[FrenchJerk whoever]] came up with the concept of "DeathOfTheAuthor" has a good point. This is what literary {{Postmodernism}} is about. [[SelfdemonstratingArticle Thus it is proven that the tyranny of God gives way to the freedom of man!]]
4th Jan '16 5:18:16 PM Synch
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The concept of "the DeathOfTheAuthor" has helped this state of affairs as it encourages everyone to insist that their pet theories are entirely valid (with or without justification), regardless of how many times the [[WordOfGod author of the text clearly states his or her intentions in writing the work]], or, as in many cases, that the pet theory absolutely ''isn't'' the state of affairs at all. Death of the Author is effective because WordOfGod isn't always reliable; the author him/herself can decide the works means different (even contradictory) things and if there are ''multiple'' authors, it's perfectly possible for them to disagree on what the work means and so [[FrenchJerk whoever]] came up with the concept of "DeathOfTheAuthor" has a good point. This is what literary {{Postmodernism}} is about. [[SelfdemonstratingArticle Thus it is proven that the tyranny of God gives way to the freedom of man!]]
to:
The concept of "the DeathOfTheAuthor" has helped this state of affairs as it encourages everyone to insist that their pet theories are entirely valid (with or without justification), regardless of how many times the [[WordOfGod author of the text clearly states his or her intentions in writing the work]], or, as in many cases, that the pet theory absolutely ''isn't'' the state of affairs at all. Death of the Author is effective because WordOfGod isn't always reliable; the author him/herself can decide the works work means different (even contradictory) ([[FlipFlopOfGod even contradictory]]) things and if there are ''multiple'' authors, it's perfectly possible for them to disagree on what the work means and so [[FrenchJerk whoever]] came up with the concept of "DeathOfTheAuthor" has a good point. This is what literary {{Postmodernism}} is about. [[SelfdemonstratingArticle Thus it is proven that the tyranny of God gives way to the freedom of man!]]
26th Nov '15 8:01:07 AM jeez
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''I think I understand now. The Example Folders are there to symbolize the man's curious nature and endless desire for knowledge in pursuit of enlightenment.....''
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''I think I understand now. The Example Folders are there to symbolize the man's curious nature and endless desire for knowledge in pursuit of enlightenment.....enlightenment... and [[TvTropesWillRuinYourLife the embrace of their ugliest and most persistent obsessions]].''
7th Nov '15 9:39:47 AM MyFinalEdits
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There's just no reason to misindent this way
* Literature/TheBible itself is subject to this, even in a literal sense, as many Old Testament figures, such as Moses, show parallels with Jesus. Certain theologist believe that these were prophetic foreshadowings for the Messiah, while skeptics believe that the New Testament was intentionally written to match these older stories. Even the writers of the gospels have this happening, where some of them, through narrative use of AsTheGoodBookSays (although it's a different Good Book), claim that this event or that saying were to fulfil what had been said by the prophets beforehand. Some of them are significant stretches. Also, the New Testament writers' practice fits squarely into the tradition of Jewish midrash. For example, the Gospel of Mark begins with Jesus' baptism at which Jesus comes up from the water, the heavens are opened, a voice comes forth, and the spirit descends. This is clearly midrash on the creation story from Genesis 1 in which God's spirit hovers over water and God's voice summons the light. In so doing, Mark is making a theological point through narrative. In addition, common in the First Century CE was the use of typology as a way of understanding scripture (Isaac is seen as a type of Jesus, Elijah as a type of John the Baptist, etc.). In this way, the authors of the NT are not claiming literal prophecy/fulfillment as much as reminding the reader that what God has done before, God is doing again. * Another favorite in the theme of Christianity is to make everything that's too obviously not an allegory of a Christian theme into a post-facto allegory for a Christian heresy, and therefore a [[ItsAllAboutMe subversion of Christianity]]. Since most heresies stemmed from actual discussions of mythology and interpretation of the scripture as literature (despite the [[TheInquisition usual implications]], 'heresy' didn't necessarily imply some sort of feud, just the explanation the church decided not to go with) it's pretty trivial to tie anything to one movement or another. ** The gnostics get hit with this one especially hard, since their idea involved knowing god through what amounts to an emotional epiphany. Therefore, obviously, every work where a character experiences an emotion that shifts their point of view [[FourTermsFallacy is necessarily a Gnostic allegory]] for some analysts.
to:
* Literature/TheBible itself is subject to this, even in a literal sense, as many Old Testament figures, such as Moses, show parallels with Jesus. Certain theologist theologists believe that these were prophetic foreshadowings for the Messiah, while skeptics believe that the New Testament was intentionally written to match these older stories. Even the writers of the gospels have this happening, where some of them, through narrative use of AsTheGoodBookSays (although it's a different Good Book), claim that this event or that saying were to fulfil what had been said by the prophets beforehand. Some of them are significant stretches. Also, the New Testament writers' practice fits squarely into the tradition of Jewish midrash. For example, the Gospel of Mark begins with Jesus' baptism at which Jesus comes up from the water, the heavens are opened, a voice comes forth, and the spirit descends. This is clearly midrash on the creation story from Genesis 1 in which God's spirit hovers over water and God's voice summons the light. In so doing, Mark is making a theological point through narrative. In addition, common in the First Century CE was the use of typology as a way of understanding scripture (Isaac is seen as a type of Jesus, Elijah as a type of John the Baptist, etc.). In this way, the authors of the NT are not claiming literal prophecy/fulfillment as much as reminding the reader that what God has done before, God is doing again. * Another favorite in the theme of Christianity is to make everything that's too obviously not an allegory of a Christian theme into a post-facto allegory for a Christian heresy, and therefore a [[ItsAllAboutMe subversion of Christianity]]. Since most heresies stemmed from actual discussions of mythology and interpretation of the scripture as literature (despite the [[TheInquisition usual implications]], 'heresy' didn't necessarily imply some sort of feud, just the explanation the church decided not to go with) it's pretty trivial to tie anything to one movement or another. ** another. The gnostics get hit with this one especially hard, since their idea involved knowing god through what amounts to an emotional epiphany. Therefore, obviously, every work where a character experiences an emotion that shifts their point of view [[FourTermsFallacy is necessarily a Gnostic allegory]] for some analysts.
7th Nov '15 6:31:26 AM Deblin
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Added DiffLines:
* Another favorite in the theme of Christianity is to make everything that's too obviously not an allegory of a Christian theme into a post-facto allegory for a Christian heresy, and therefore a [[ItsAllAboutMe subversion of Christianity]]. Since most heresies stemmed from actual discussions of mythology and interpretation of the scripture as literature (despite the [[TheInquisition usual implications]], 'heresy' didn't necessarily imply some sort of feud, just the explanation the church decided not to go with) it's pretty trivial to tie anything to one movement or another. ** The gnostics get hit with this one especially hard, since their idea involved knowing god through what amounts to an emotional epiphany. Therefore, obviously, every work where a character experiences an emotion that shifts their point of view [[FourTermsFallacy is necessarily a Gnostic allegory]] for some analysts.
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