History Main / EvenEvilHasStandards

8th Sep '17 11:55:50 AM Njein
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[[caption-width-right:350:Even when [[ComicBook/TheJoker you're psychotic]], the American way must be protected.]]

to:

[[caption-width-right:350:Even when [[ComicBook/TheJoker you're psychotic]], a psychotic jester]], the American way must be protected.]]
19th Aug '17 9:00:41 AM Baeraad555
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Compare and contrast PragmaticVillainy, when the villain's refusal to partake in the abhorrent act is far more selfish (or in the case of a group of villains against a single one, group-beneficial); EvilerThanThou, where the villain is dismissive of another villain for not being evil ''enough''; EvenMooksHaveLovedOnes, where minions defect to protect a loved one from their boss; DoWrongRight for cases where it's not what is done but rather ''how'' it's done that the villain has standards for; and FamilyValuesVillain for where the standards are very . . . old fashioned. Often the deal with many LawfulEvil villains, but sometimes not. Can occasionally be the cause of a BreakTheBadass moment, when the badass in question is the bad guy. As said above it may be used by a character who also crossed the MoralEventHorizon and so he may be, in theory (if not wholly) just as evil as the target of this trope.

to:

Compare and contrast PragmaticVillainy, when the villain's refusal to partake in the abhorrent act is far more selfish (or in the case of a group of villains against a single one, group-beneficial); EvilerThanThou, where the villain is dismissive of another villain for not being evil ''enough''; EvenMooksHaveLovedOnes, where minions defect to protect a loved one from their boss; DoWrongRight for cases where it's not what is done but rather ''how'' it's done that the villain has standards for; and FamilyValuesVillain for where the standards are very . . . old fashioned. Often the deal with many LawfulEvil villains, but sometimes not. Can occasionally be the cause of a BreakTheBadass moment, when the badass in question is the bad guy. As said above it may be used by a character who also crossed the MoralEventHorizon and so he may be, in theory (if not wholly) just as evil as the target of this trope.
trope. The PoliticallyCorrectVillain always considers themself part of this trope, though whether the writer and audience agree tends to vary.
6th Aug '17 5:19:07 AM Shadowgazer
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It's often to show that a new villain is ''really'' [[SlidingScaleOfAntagonistVileness bad]] if even [[MorallyAmbiguousDoctorate Doctor]] [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast Annihilation]] shrinks from it. Another way that it's used is to keep a villain safely on the "still sympathetic" side of the MoralEventHorizon; give him something that he simply ''will not do''. It may be specifically invoked to prove that it's OK for our hero to [[EnemyMine work with]] villains who have standards when the need is great enough. This can be strange if handled badly objecting to someone's crossing even if they have crossed another one, leading to confusion and unintentionally edge into BlueAndOrangeMorality. Why, after all, should a criminal think shooting a [[NominalImportance particular single orphan]] be worse than killing every single orphan in the ThrowawayCountry, or a serial killer be upset by petty theft, or...? This might be deliberate however, in order to show the MoralMyopia of the villains and make the viewers question what is right what is wrong and if there is more wrong. Also to show how complex human beings can be, what is acceptable for them and what drives them to make different choices in different scenarios.

to:

It's often to show that a new villain is ''really'' [[SlidingScaleOfAntagonistVileness bad]] if even [[MorallyAmbiguousDoctorate Doctor]] [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast Annihilation]] shrinks from it. Another way that it's used is to keep a villain safely on the "still sympathetic" side of the MoralEventHorizon; give him something that he simply ''will not do''. It may be specifically invoked to prove that it's OK for our hero to [[EnemyMine work with]] villains who have standards when the need is great enough. This can be strange if handled badly objecting to someone's crossing even if they have crossed another one, leading to confusion and unintentionally edge into BlueAndOrangeMorality. Why, after all, should a criminal think shooting a [[NominalImportance particular single orphan]] be worse than killing every single orphan in the ThrowawayCountry, or a serial killer be upset by petty theft, or...? This might be deliberate however, in order to show the MoralMyopia of the villains and make the viewers question what is right what is wrong and if there is more wrong. Also to show how complex human beings can be, what is acceptable for them and what drives them to make different choices in different scenarios.
scenarios. It is particularly ironic when two characters display this and their different understanding of morality by objecting to each other's crossing.
22nd Jul '17 12:41:53 PM SinDustries
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The most common taboos of this type in contemporary Western works involve [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual violence]] or [[WouldntHurtAChild ill-treatment of children]]. [[PaedoHunt Or both]]. Common gangster-story examples are to have the NeighbourhoodFriendlyGangsters, by contrast with the RuthlessForeignGangsters, refuse to [[DrugsAreBad sell illegal drugs]], or be respectful and non-abusive in their treatment of the [[UnproblematicProstitution women who they pimp]]. If your story takes place in a MobWar where [[BlackAndGreyMorality one side is slightly better than the other]], it's most likely because the "[[NeighbourhoodFriendlyGangsters good]]" side has standards.In older works, or historical fiction with authentic moral attitudes, common examples are breaches of SacredHospitality, treachery against [[MyMasterRightOrWrong one's leader]], or general [[IGaveMyWord breaches of oaths]].

to:

The most common taboos of this type in contemporary Western works involve [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual violence]] or [[WouldntHurtAChild ill-treatment of children]]. [[PaedoHunt Or both]]. Common gangster-story examples are to have the NeighbourhoodFriendlyGangsters, by contrast with the RuthlessForeignGangsters, refuse to [[DrugsAreBad sell illegal drugs]], drugs]] or be respectful disrespectful and non-abusive abusive in their treatment of the [[UnproblematicProstitution women who they pimp]]. If your story takes place in a MobWar where [[BlackAndGreyMorality one side is slightly better than the other]], it's most likely because the "[[NeighbourhoodFriendlyGangsters good]]" side has standards. In older works, or historical fiction with authentic moral attitudes, common examples are breaches of SacredHospitality, treachery against [[MyMasterRightOrWrong one's leader]], or general [[IGaveMyWord breaches of oaths]].
22nd Jul '17 4:56:10 AM Shadowgazer
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In comedy, it's often used to frame a TakeThat against a real-life action (such as [[DigitalPiracyIsEvil digital piracy]]) or profession (such as [[EvilLawyerJoke lawyer]]) that the villain is "too good" to associate with (or alternatively making fun of those who treat it as a crime); it's sometimes also played for laughs with ArsonMurderAndJaywalking, where the one thing that the villain objects to is something comically minor compared to their usual crimes. Contrast MoralMyopia, where the 'standards' apply only to the villain's allies and ArsonMurderAndAdmiration where the eviler one is the better. This trope is one of the distinguishing differences between most villains and TheUnfettered.

to:

In comedy, it's often used to frame a TakeThat against a real-life action (such as [[DigitalPiracyIsEvil digital piracy]]) or profession (such as [[EvilLawyerJoke lawyer]]) that the villain is "too good" to associate with (or alternatively making fun of those who treat it as a crime); it's sometimes also played for laughs with ArsonMurderAndJaywalking, where the one thing that the villain objects to is something comically minor compared to their usual crimes. Contrast MoralMyopia, MoralMyopia and EvenEvilHasLovedOnes, where the 'standards' apply only to the villain's allies and ArsonMurderAndAdmiration where the eviler one is the better. This trope is one of the distinguishing differences between most villains and TheUnfettered.



See also HitmanWithAHeart, where this Trope may apply. (Not all characters who fit the ProfessionalKiller Trope are evil, but many are, and a lot do have scruples. They're particularly likely to have the Even Evil Has Standards variant SelectiveSlaughter.)

Can even involve ConscienceMakesYouGoBack, SuddenPrincipledStand. See also EvilVirtues and VillainousValour, for good traits and virtues that villains commonly practice. The inversions of this trope are WellIntentionedExtremist and UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans, when it turns out that ''goodness'' is willingly crossing the MoralEventHorizon. This trope is a common trait in AffablyEvil characters. On the other hand, while FauxAffablyEvil villains do not possess much sincerity, even they have their limits. A subtrope of EveryoneHasStandards.

to:

See also HitmanWithAHeart, where this Trope may apply. (Not all characters who fit the ProfessionalKiller Trope are evil, evil depending on their choice of targets, but many most are, and a lot do have ''some'' scruples. They're particularly likely to have the Even Evil Has Standards variant SelectiveSlaughter.)

Can even involve ConscienceMakesYouGoBack, SuddenPrincipledStand. See also EvilVirtues and VillainousValour, for good traits and virtues that villains commonly practice. The inversions of this trope are WellIntentionedExtremist and UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans, when it turns out that ''goodness'' is willingly crossing the MoralEventHorizon. This trope is a common trait in AffablyEvil characters. On the other hand, while FauxAffablyEvil villains do not possess much sincerity, even they could conceivably have their limits. A subtrope of EveryoneHasStandards.
22nd Jul '17 4:50:55 AM Shadowgazer
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It's often to show that a new villain is ''really'' [[SlidingScaleOfAntagonistVileness bad]] if even [[MorallyAmbiguousDoctorate Doctor]] [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast Annihilation]] shrinks from it. Another way that it's used is to keep a villain safely on the "still sympathetic" side of the MoralEventHorizon; give him something that he simply ''will not do''. It may be specifically invoked to prove that it's OK for our hero to [[EnemyMine work with]] villains who have standards when the need is great enough. This can be strange if handled badly, leading to confusion and unintentionally edge into BlueAndOrangeMorality. Why, after all, should a criminal think shooting a [[NominalImportance particular single orphan]] be worse than killing every single orphan in the ThrowawayCountry, or a serial killer be upset by petty theft, or...? This might be deliberate however, in order to show the MoralMyopia of the villains and make the viewers question what is right what is wrong and if there is more wrong.

The most common taboos of this type in contemporary Western works involve [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual violence]] or [[WouldntHurtAChild ill-treatment of children]]. [[PaedoHunt Or both]]. Common gangster-story examples are to have the NeighbourhoodFriendlyGangsters, by contrast with the RuthlessForeignGangsters, refuse to [[DrugsAreBad sell illegal drugs]], or be respectful and non-abusive in their treatment of the [[UnproblematicProstitution women who they pimp]]. In older works, or historical fiction with authentic moral attitudes, common examples are breaches of SacredHospitality, treachery against [[MyMasterRightOrWrong one's leader]], or general [[IGaveMyWord breaches of oaths]].

to:

It's often to show that a new villain is ''really'' [[SlidingScaleOfAntagonistVileness bad]] if even [[MorallyAmbiguousDoctorate Doctor]] [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast Annihilation]] shrinks from it. Another way that it's used is to keep a villain safely on the "still sympathetic" side of the MoralEventHorizon; give him something that he simply ''will not do''. It may be specifically invoked to prove that it's OK for our hero to [[EnemyMine work with]] villains who have standards when the need is great enough. This can be strange if handled badly, badly objecting to someone's crossing even if they have crossed another one, leading to confusion and unintentionally edge into BlueAndOrangeMorality. Why, after all, should a criminal think shooting a [[NominalImportance particular single orphan]] be worse than killing every single orphan in the ThrowawayCountry, or a serial killer be upset by petty theft, or...? This might be deliberate however, in order to show the MoralMyopia of the villains and make the viewers question what is right what is wrong and if there is more wrong. \n\n Also to show how complex human beings can be, what is acceptable for them and what drives them to make different choices in different scenarios.

The most common taboos of this type in contemporary Western works involve [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil sexual violence]] or [[WouldntHurtAChild ill-treatment of children]]. [[PaedoHunt Or both]]. Common gangster-story examples are to have the NeighbourhoodFriendlyGangsters, by contrast with the RuthlessForeignGangsters, refuse to [[DrugsAreBad sell illegal drugs]], or be respectful and non-abusive in their treatment of the [[UnproblematicProstitution women who they pimp]]. If your story takes place in a MobWar where [[BlackAndGreyMorality one side is slightly better than the other]], it's most likely because the "[[NeighbourhoodFriendlyGangsters good]]" side has standards.In older works, or historical fiction with authentic moral attitudes, common examples are breaches of SacredHospitality, treachery against [[MyMasterRightOrWrong one's leader]], or general [[IGaveMyWord breaches of oaths]].



Can lead to an EnemyMine if the evil is another villain. Can also lead to a PetTheDog moment. Can contribute to making an AntiHero or VillainProtagonist ALighterShadeOfGrey than their enemies. Can also make it so that a conflict [[EvilVersusEvil where both major factions are malicious]] [[ALighterShadeOfBlack has someone for the audience to root for]]. Generally will NeverHurtAnInnocent. In rare cases, a HeelFaceTurn can develop from the villain taking a RedemptionQuest as a direct result of the conflict (most likely from a HeelRealization).

In comedy, it's often used to frame a TakeThat against a real-life action (such as [[DigitalPiracyIsEvil digital piracy]]) or profession (such as [[EvilLawyerJoke lawyer]]) that the villain is "too good" to associate with; it's sometimes also played for laughs with ArsonMurderAndJaywalking, where the one thing that the villain objects to is something comically minor compared to their usual crimes. Contrast MoralMyopia, where the 'standards' apply only to the villain's allies and ArsonMurderAndAdmiration where the eviler one is the better. This trope is one of the distinguishing differences between most villains and TheUnfettered. If your story takes place in a MobWar where [[BlackAndGreyMorality one side is slightly better than the other]], it's most likely because the "[[NeighbourhoodFriendlyGangsters good]]" side has standards.

to:

Can lead to an EnemyMine if the evil is another villain. Can also lead to a PetTheDog moment. Can contribute to making an AntiHero or VillainProtagonist ALighterShadeOfGrey than their enemies. Can also make it so that a conflict [[EvilVersusEvil where both major factions are malicious]] [[ALighterShadeOfBlack has someone for the audience to root for]]. Generally will NeverHurtAnInnocent. In rare cases, a HeelFaceTurn can even develop from the villain taking a RedemptionQuest as a direct result of the conflict (most likely from a HeelRealization).

In comedy, it's often used to frame a TakeThat against a real-life action (such as [[DigitalPiracyIsEvil digital piracy]]) or profession (such as [[EvilLawyerJoke lawyer]]) that the villain is "too good" to associate with; with (or alternatively making fun of those who treat it as a crime); it's sometimes also played for laughs with ArsonMurderAndJaywalking, where the one thing that the villain objects to is something comically minor compared to their usual crimes. Contrast MoralMyopia, where the 'standards' apply only to the villain's allies and ArsonMurderAndAdmiration where the eviler one is the better. This trope is one of the distinguishing differences between most villains and TheUnfettered. If your story takes place in a MobWar where [[BlackAndGreyMorality one side is slightly better than the other]], it's most likely because the "[[NeighbourhoodFriendlyGangsters good]]" side has standards.\n
18th Jun '17 5:51:29 AM Odacon_Spy
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->''"I'll kill a man in a fair fight. Or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight. Or if he bothers me. Or if there's a woman. Or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly when I'm gettin' paid... but ''eating people alive''? Where's that get fun?"''

to:

->''"I'll kill a man in a fair fight. Or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight. Or if he bothers me. Or if there's a woman. Or if I'm gettin' paid. Mostly when I'm gettin' paid... but ''eating people alive''? Where's Where's'' that get ''get fun?"''
29th May '17 9:11:20 AM Kuruni
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Now, [[TVTropesWillRuinYourLife we've ruined the lives of thousands of people every year since we came into being]], [[SelfDemonstratingArticle but we know that in real life, "evil" is a matter of perspective]]; so [[NoRealLifeExamplesPlease no real life examples, please]].

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Now, [[TVTropesWillRuinYourLife we've ruined the lives of thousands of people every year since we came into being]], [[SelfDemonstratingArticle but we know that in real life, "evil" is a matter of perspective]]; so [[NoRealLifeExamplesPlease no No real life examples, please]].
29th May '17 3:04:10 AM Anicomicgeek
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[[caption-width-right:350:Even when [[SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker you're psychotic]], the American way must be protected.]]

to:

[[caption-width-right:350:Even when [[SelfDemonstrating/TheJoker [[ComicBook/TheJoker you're psychotic]], the American way must be protected.]]
30th Apr '17 3:48:50 PM E1craZ4life
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[[noreallife]]

to:

[[noreallife]]Now, [[TVTropesWillRuinYourLife we've ruined the lives of thousands of people every year since we came into being]], [[SelfDemonstratingArticle but we know that in real life, "evil" is a matter of perspective]]; so [[NoRealLifeExamplesPlease no real life examples, please]].
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