History Main / ElementalBaggage

4th Apr '16 9:22:22 AM supergod
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* In ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', FunctionalMagic often allows elemental powers to be conjured out of nothing or it may otherwise require a small spell component to cast (with more expensive components needed for more powerful spells). Sometimes the powers are explicitly drawn from elemental planes (particularly summoning spells), which double as exotic adventuring locales. If you're actually ''on'' those planes, spells involving the plane's element get a free power boost, while spells involving their opposed element -- fire/water or earth/air -- are much harder to cast. There ''are'' a few spells which may only function if there's at least some amount of the element present, and these are usually given names such as "control water".

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* In ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', FunctionalMagic often allows elemental powers to be conjured out of nothing or it may otherwise require a small spell component to cast (with more expensive components needed for more powerful spells). Sometimes the powers are explicitly drawn from elemental planes (particularly summoning spells), which double as exotic adventuring locales. If you're actually ''on'' those planes, spells involving the plane's element get a free power boost, while spells involving their opposed element -- fire/water or earth/air -- are much harder to cast. There ''are'' a few spells which may only function if there's at least some amount of the element present, and these are usually given names such as "control water".X".
4th Apr '16 9:17:16 AM supergod
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Related to ShapeshifterBaggage and the HyperspaceArsenal. Often implied for SnowMeansCold.

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Related to NoConservationOfEnergy, ShapeshifterBaggage and the HyperspaceArsenal. Often implied for SnowMeansCold.



* In ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', this is {{Hand Wave}}d through the Elemental Planes of Fire, Water, Earth, and Air, from which these elements can be summoned, and which double as exotic adventuring locales. If you're actually ''on'' those planes, spells involving the plane's element get a free power boost, while spells involving their opposed element -- fire/water or earth/air -- are much harder to cast.

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* In ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'', this is {{Hand Wave}}d through FunctionalMagic often allows elemental powers to be conjured out of nothing or it may otherwise require a small spell component to cast (with more expensive components needed for more powerful spells). Sometimes the Elemental Planes of Fire, Water, Earth, and Air, powers are explicitly drawn from which these elements can be summoned, and elemental planes (particularly summoning spells), which double as exotic adventuring locales. If you're actually ''on'' those planes, spells involving the plane's element get a free power boost, while spells involving their opposed element -- fire/water or earth/air -- are much harder to cast. There ''are'' a few spells which may only function if there's at least some amount of the element present, and these are usually given names such as "control water".
4th Apr '16 8:49:28 AM supergod
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In many {{fantasy}} settings, FunctionalMagic will often allow the elemental ability to be simply [[ThePowerOfCreation created out of nothing]], requiring no source to function. Otherwise only a small amount of the element may be needed to power the spell or some other PowerSource or component may be used. It may also allow the user to draw elements from distant sources or even other [[ElementalPlane planes of existence]].

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In many {{fantasy}} settings, FunctionalMagic will often allow the elemental ability to be simply [[ThePowerOfCreation created out of nothing]], requiring no source to function. Otherwise only a small amount of the element may be needed to power the spell spell, or some other PowerSource or component may be used. It may also allow the user to draw elements from distant sources or even other [[ElementalPlane planes of existence]].
4th Apr '16 8:47:35 AM supergod
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Added DiffLines:

In many {{fantasy}} settings, FunctionalMagic will often allow the elemental ability to be simply [[ThePowerOfCreation created out of nothing]], requiring no source to function. Otherwise only a small amount of the element may be needed to power the spell or some other PowerSource or component may be used. It may also allow the user to draw elements from distant sources or even other [[ElementalPlane planes of existence]].
4th Apr '16 8:04:36 AM supergod
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This violation of EquivalentExchange is less noticeable for users of more volatile elements such as air (which is present in large enough quantities in pretty much every setting), fire (although someone is bound to ask [[NoConservationOfEnergy where all those calories come from]], which is often HandWaved by having fire users be {{Big Eater}}s) or lightning (where one is usually more distracted by the character's PsychoElectro qualities). Earth users and especially water users using this trope are much clearer examples of ArtisticLicense and RuleOfCool being employed, depending on how much of the element is available.

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This violation of EquivalentExchange is less noticeable for users manipulators of more volatile elements such as air (which is present in large enough quantities in pretty much every setting), fire (although someone is bound to ask [[NoConservationOfEnergy where all those calories come from]], which is often HandWaved by having fire users be {{Big Eater}}s) or lightning (where one is usually more distracted by the character's PsychoElectro qualities). Earth users People with the ability to control earth and especially water users using this trope are tend to be much clearer examples of ArtisticLicense and RuleOfCool being employed, depending on how much of the element is available.
available. Or it may otherwise be explained away with factors such as high amounts of dust or humidity.



** [[AnIcePerson Iceman]], also of the ''ComicBook/XMen''. He canonically makes his ice by drawing the moisture out of the air, but the huge sculptures he creates would be difficult to pull off even in the aforementioned ten thousand percent humidity. The precise mechanism depends on the writer; one was that he draws the moisture from an extra-dimensional source, but he needs actual moisture in the air to "pattern" it from. Thus, he's weaker in extremely arid conditions. In one issue of ''The Defenders'', Bobby manages to kill an alien fungus by draining all the moisture from a sealed room, but it takes much, much longer than you'd expect from the volume of ice he's producing.

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** [[AnIcePerson Iceman]], also of the ''ComicBook/XMen''. He canonically makes his ice by drawing the moisture out of the air, but the huge sculptures he creates would be difficult to pull off even in the aforementioned ten thousand percent taking into account a high percentage of humidity. The precise mechanism depends on the writer; one was that he draws the moisture from an extra-dimensional source, but he needs actual moisture in the air to "pattern" it from. Thus, he's weaker in extremely arid conditions. In one issue of ''The Defenders'', Bobby manages to kill an alien fungus by draining all the moisture from a sealed room, but it takes much, much longer than you'd expect from the volume of ice he's producing.
4th Apr '16 4:52:11 AM supergod
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This violation of EquivalentExchange is less noticeable for users of more volatile elements such as air (which is present in large enough quantities in pretty much every setting), fire (although someone is bound to ask [[NoConservationOfEnergy where all those calories come from]], which is often HandWaved by having fire users be {{Big Eater}}s) or lightning (where one is usually more distracted by the character's PsychoElectro qualities). Earth users and especially water users may have more trouble depending on the setting.

Compare ThisLooksLikeAJobForAquaman if the power is harder to get into use.

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This violation of EquivalentExchange is less noticeable for users of more volatile elements such as air (which is present in large enough quantities in pretty much every setting), fire (although someone is bound to ask [[NoConservationOfEnergy where all those calories come from]], which is often HandWaved by having fire users be {{Big Eater}}s) or lightning (where one is usually more distracted by the character's PsychoElectro qualities). Earth users and especially water users may have more trouble using this trope are much clearer examples of ArtisticLicense and RuleOfCool being employed, depending on how much of the setting.

element is available.

If after using this, the writers then decide to include a scene where the elemental user is explicitly at a disadvantage because they can't find a large enough source of their element to control, we have a case of HoldingBackThePhlebotinum.

Compare ThisLooksLikeAJobForAquaman if the power is harder more difficult to get into use.
3rd Apr '16 9:03:58 PM supergod
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When this violation of EquivalentExchange occurs in a {{Fantasy}} setting, one can always claim that AWizardDidIt.[[note]] It should be noted though, metaphysically, a lot of the time elements in [[FunctionalMagic functional magic systems]] are used not as material substitutes or basic building blocks of matter as they are classically, but rather "forms" or "ideas" that is imposed on raw chaotic existence in order to cause an effect, either by changing things or creating things. This implies the world is not based, as ours appears to be, on real objective matter, but rather, a simple "existence" which elements directly affect. Or in other words, equivalent exchange simply doesn't apply sometimes because [[RealityIsOutToLunch reality was out to lunch]] in the first place.[[/note]] However, it gets more and more {{egregious}} the closer we come to a ScienceFiction setting. From the moment the powers start getting called [[{{Whatevermancy}} Greek-element-o-kinesis]] the authors have introduced a magnet for FanWank. The fans are going to demand explanations increasingly often and the writers are going to be in trouble.

Of course, FanWank or not, it will still look like a cancerous example of HoldingBackThePhlebotinum if the writers decide to do an episode where the elemental user is explicitly at a disadvantage because they can't find a large enough source of their element to control.

This phenomenon is less of an ailment for users of more volatile elements such as air (which is present in large enough quantities in pretty much every setting), fire (although someone is bound to ask [[NoConservationOfEnergy where all those calories come from]], which is often HandWaved by having fire users be {{Big Eater}}s) or lightning (where one is usually more distracted by the character's PsychoElectro qualities). Earth users and especially water users (as the examples above show) may have more trouble, but benevolent viewers will often allow for 10,000% humidity or really really dusty conditions. Not to be confused with SeasonalBaggage.

Compare ThisLooksLikeAJobForAquaman if the power is harder to get into use, or there's less RuleOfCool to make it acceptable.

to:

When this This violation of EquivalentExchange occurs in a {{Fantasy}} setting, one can always claim that AWizardDidIt.[[note]] It should be noted though, metaphysically, a lot of the time elements in [[FunctionalMagic functional magic systems]] are used not as material substitutes or basic building blocks of matter as they are classically, but rather "forms" or "ideas" that is imposed on raw chaotic existence in order to cause an effect, either by changing things or creating things. This implies the world is not based, as ours appears to be, on real objective matter, but rather, a simple "existence" which elements directly affect. Or in other words, equivalent exchange simply doesn't apply sometimes because [[RealityIsOutToLunch reality was out to lunch]] in the first place.[[/note]] However, it gets more and more {{egregious}} the closer we come to a ScienceFiction setting. From the moment the powers start getting called [[{{Whatevermancy}} Greek-element-o-kinesis]] the authors have introduced a magnet for FanWank. The fans are going to demand explanations increasingly often and the writers are going to be in trouble.

Of course, FanWank or not, it will still look like a cancerous example of HoldingBackThePhlebotinum if the writers decide to do an episode where the elemental user is explicitly at a disadvantage because they can't find a large enough source of their element to control.

This phenomenon
is less of an ailment noticeable for users of more volatile elements such as air (which is present in large enough quantities in pretty much every setting), fire (although someone is bound to ask [[NoConservationOfEnergy where all those calories come from]], which is often HandWaved by having fire users be {{Big Eater}}s) or lightning (where one is usually more distracted by the character's PsychoElectro qualities). Earth users and especially water users (as the examples above show) may have more trouble, but benevolent viewers will often allow for 10,000% humidity or really really dusty conditions. Not to be confused with SeasonalBaggage.

trouble depending on the setting.

Compare ThisLooksLikeAJobForAquaman if the power is harder to get into use, or there's less RuleOfCool to make it acceptable.
use.
3rd Apr '16 1:19:48 PM supergod
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** Which, unfortunately, doesn't explain where the energy comes from to power sonic attacks.
*** Most sonic attacks are used by ''[[AWizardDidIt wizards]]''--that, or they just have tiny, powerful subwoofers in their wands.
*** Also consider 'create food' spells, does that mean there is a 'plane of gruel'?
*** Theoretically, yes.
*** Which is often a source of spoofs in D&D parodies, as characters somehow or another wind up in a plane or demiplane of infinite food. See the [[Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick semi-elemental plane of ranch dressing]] [[http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html here]].
25th Feb '16 9:57:36 AM Willbyr
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* The Logia (and certain Paramecia) Devil Fruits of ''OnePiece'' run off the AWizardDidIt explanation: one of powers they grant is specifically noted to be the ability to produce as mass amounts of whatever element the Logia fruit in question represents.
* Initially averted in ''{{Naruto}}'', where for a long time pretty much all the water elemental powers were shown to use existing bodies of water. Later on, it fell headlong into this trope, with huge amounts of water appearing out of thin air. Of course, since the main character regularly [[ShapeshifterBaggage creates clones of himself out of nothing, and others have been known to increase their body mass hundreds of times or turn shadows into physical beings]], it seems like creating matter (elemental and otherwise) out of nothing is just something [[FunctionalMagic ninjutsu]] can do.

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* The Logia (and certain Paramecia) Devil Fruits of ''OnePiece'' ''Franchise/OnePiece'' run off the AWizardDidIt explanation: one of powers they grant is specifically noted to be the ability to produce as mass amounts of whatever element the Logia fruit in question represents.
* Initially averted in ''{{Naruto}}'', ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'', where for a long time pretty much all the water elemental powers were shown to use existing bodies of water. Later on, it fell headlong into this trope, with huge amounts of water appearing out of thin air. Of course, since the main character regularly [[ShapeshifterBaggage creates clones of himself out of nothing, and others have been known to increase their body mass hundreds of times or turn shadows into physical beings]], it seems like creating matter (elemental and otherwise) out of nothing is just something [[FunctionalMagic ninjutsu]] can do.
21st Jan '16 6:40:00 PM GrammarNavi
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* In ''SuperSmashBros'', among other obvious examples, Charizard can always grab a boulder from just under his feet and smack someone with it.

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* In ''SuperSmashBros'', ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBros'', among other obvious examples, Charizard can always grab a boulder from just under his feet and smack someone with it.
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