History Main / ElegantWeaponForAMoreCivilizedAge

21st Apr '17 10:04:45 PM nombretomado
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* Inverted by the Howling Voice Guild of the ''{{Suikoden}}'' series, who are the only people in the world to wield guns. As Cathari explains in ''VideoGame/SuikodenV'', they're louder than bows, so worse for stealth, less accurate, and less reliable (Though not in [[GameplayAndStorySegregation actual combat]], where one shot from Cathari can do more damage than most fighters can pull of in three, she also has a high hit rate). In a civilized age, they're the only ones using these uncivilized weapons. The only thing that makes them useful is as an intimidation tactic.

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* Inverted by the Howling Voice Guild of the ''{{Suikoden}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Suikoden}}'' series, who are the only people in the world to wield guns. As Cathari explains in ''VideoGame/SuikodenV'', they're louder than bows, so worse for stealth, less accurate, and less reliable (Though not in [[GameplayAndStorySegregation actual combat]], where one shot from Cathari can do more damage than most fighters can pull of in three, she also has a high hit rate). In a civilized age, they're the only ones using these uncivilized weapons. The only thing that makes them useful is as an intimidation tactic.
20th Apr '17 2:11:27 PM StFan
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[[folder: FanFiction]]
* In the ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'' FanFic ''FanFic/VariousVytalVentures'' this is the explanation for why Jaune's 'Crocea Mors' is not Also a Gun, like his many comrades. Doubles as an AncestralWeapon.

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[[folder: FanFiction]]
[[folder:Fan Works]]
* In the ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'' FanFic ''FanFic/VariousVytalVentures'' this is the explanation for why Jaune's 'Crocea Mors' "Crocea Mors" is not Also a Gun, like his many comrades. Doubles as an AncestralWeapon.



[[folder:Film]]

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[[folder:Film]][[folder:Films -- Live-Action]]



* Creator/RobertAHeinlein - [[AuthorAppeal who was a competitive fencer in his Naval Academy days]] - goes to some length to point out how a sword is great in several of his books. Never jams, never runs out of ammo, and so on and it was a nice thing to have in some [[TheCityNarrows rough parts of town]]. It is long, sharp, intimidating and precise enough to do exactly as much damage as the wielder wishes. For instance by using the flat or a slash cut to the ribcage with a downward inclination(because the bones overlap in that direction and prevent entering the vitals the way they would in an upward blow) someone can make an assailant uncomfortable without killing.
** One story involves Lazarus Long talk about learning how to best use a bayonet in the ''twenty-fifth'' century.

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* Creator/RobertAHeinlein - -- [[AuthorAppeal who was a competitive fencer in his Naval Academy days]] - -- goes to some length to point out how a sword is great in several of his books. Never jams, never runs out of ammo, and so on and it was a nice thing to have in some [[TheCityNarrows rough parts of town]]. It is long, sharp, intimidating and precise enough to do exactly as much damage as the wielder wishes. For instance by using the flat or a slash cut to the ribcage with a downward inclination(because inclination (because the bones overlap in that direction and prevent entering the vitals the way they would in an upward blow) someone can make an assailant uncomfortable without killing.
**
killing. One story involves Lazarus Long talk about learning how to best use a bayonet in the ''twenty-fifth'' century.






[[folder:Live Action TV]]

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[[folder:Live Action [[folder:Live-Action TV]]



** This is justified in the later series, since energy weapons seem incapable of killing anyone in Voyager or Enterprise.
* The High Guard force lance from Series/{{Andromeda}}.

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** This is justified in the later series, since energy weapons seem incapable of killing anyone in Voyager or Enterprise.
*
%%* The High Guard force lance from Series/{{Andromeda}}.''Series/{{Andromeda}}''.



[[folder: Tabletop Games]]

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[[folder: Tabletop [[folder:Tabletop Games]]



* ''TabletopGame/{{Traveller}}''

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* ''TabletopGame/{{Traveller}}''''TabletopGame/{{Traveller}}'':



* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}''
** Eldar Phoenix Lords wear armor and wield weapons forged probably more than 20,000 years ago, all of which are at least as good as their modern counterparts.
*** It should be noted that Eldar armour is psychically bonded to the wearer's spirit stone, and can presumably deform or expand (to an extent) to accommodate to new wearer.
** A lot of the Imperium works like this as well: Artificer Armor and Master Crafted Weapons tend to be centuries, if not millennia, old. The reason they're still in use isn't just because of sentimentality; it's because they ''still work better'' than a lot of newer things, and in fact repairs and modifications may make them ''worse''. This also plays into the fact that, prior to the formation of the Imperium, humanity lost vast swathes of technological knowledge during the Age of Strife, afterwards leaving the newly-formed Imperium to scramble to secure whatever was left over. It's rather a Big Thing whenever a new [[LostTechnology Standard Template Construct]] is discovered.
*** That, and the Imperium of Mankind (or at least, the Inquistion) frown rather heavily on innovation or invention - it's like 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' taken UpToEleven. As a result, Imperial technology has spent about 10-15 thousand years stagnating while races less afraid of designing better wargear (like the Tau or the Tyranids) are slowly overtaking.

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* In ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}''
''TabletopGame/Warhammer40000'':
** Eldar Phoenix Lords wear armor and wield weapons forged probably more than 20,000 years ago, all of which are at least as good as their modern counterparts.
***
counterparts. It should be noted that Eldar armour armor is psychically bonded to the wearer's spirit stone, and can presumably deform or expand (to an extent) to accommodate to new wearer.
** A lot of the Imperium works like this as well: Artificer Armor and Master Crafted Weapons tend to be centuries, if not millennia, old. The reason they're still in use isn't just because of sentimentality; it's because they ''still work better'' than a lot of newer things, and in fact repairs and modifications may make them ''worse''. This also plays into the fact that, prior to the formation of the Imperium, humanity lost vast swathes of technological knowledge during the Age of Strife, afterwards leaving the newly-formed Imperium to scramble to secure whatever was left over. It's rather a Big Thing whenever a new [[LostTechnology Standard Template Construct]] is discovered.
***
discovered. That, and the Imperium of Mankind (or at least, the Inquistion) frown rather heavily on innovation or invention - -- it's like 'if "if it ain't broke, don't fix it' it" taken UpToEleven. As a result, Imperial technology has spent about 10-15 thousand years stagnating while races less afraid of designing better wargear (like the Tau or the Tyranids) are slowly overtaking.



* ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts'': The Keyblade Wielders were once common enough to form a Knighthood. By the time the first game rolls around, there are only a few left.
** Inverted as the series goes on. The number of keyblade wielders (and potential keyblade wielders) grows to the point where the only relevant main characters (including villains) that cannot currently or ever have previously used a keyblade are Donald and Goofy, Maleficent and Pete.
* Inverted by the Howling Voice Guild of the ''{{Suikoden}}'' series, who are the only people in the world to wield guns. As Cathari explains in ''SuikodenV'', they're louder than bows, so worse for stealth, less accurate, and less reliable (Though not in [[GameplayAndStorySegregation actual combat]], where one shot from Cathari can do more damage than most fighters can pull of in three, she also has a high hit rate). In a civilized age, they're the only ones using these uncivilized weapons. The only thing that makes them useful is as an intimidation tactic.

to:

* ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts'': The Keyblade Wielders were once common enough to form a Knighthood. By the time the first game rolls around, there are only a few left.
**
left. Inverted as the series goes on. The number of keyblade wielders (and potential keyblade wielders) grows to the point where the only relevant main characters (including villains) that cannot currently or ever have previously used a keyblade are Donald and Goofy, Maleficent and Pete.
* Inverted by the Howling Voice Guild of the ''{{Suikoden}}'' series, who are the only people in the world to wield guns. As Cathari explains in ''SuikodenV'', ''VideoGame/SuikodenV'', they're louder than bows, so worse for stealth, less accurate, and less reliable (Though not in [[GameplayAndStorySegregation actual combat]], where one shot from Cathari can do more damage than most fighters can pull of in three, she also has a high hit rate). In a civilized age, they're the only ones using these uncivilized weapons. The only thing that makes them useful is as an intimidation tactic.



[[folder:Web Comic]]

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[[folder:Web Comic]]Comics]]



* [[SubvertedTrope Subverted]], complete with a ''Franchise/StarWars'' reference, in [[http://sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020702 this]] ''Webcomic/SluggyFreelance'' strip.
-->'''Gwynn:''' Torg, are you stupid or something (...) running into a gunfight with a sword?
-->'''Torg:''' A sword is an elegant weapon. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster. ''CHEEEARGE!''
-->''(Torg runs into battle. Cue hail of gunfire)''
-->'''Torg''' ''(running away)'': Clumsy and random's got my name all over it!
** Double Subverted when the sword ''does'' prove decisive, in that battle and in others down the road. It saved the characters more than once, in situations where other weapons would obviously fail (soul trading demons in the spirit world for example).
* ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'''s The Very Reverend Lieutenant Theo Fobius is an accomplished fencer since his seminary days. He even makes it [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-12-04 work]] [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-12-05 for him]]. (Well, [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-03-03 sometimes]].)

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* ''Webcomic/SluggyFreelance'':
**
[[SubvertedTrope Subverted]], complete with a ''Franchise/StarWars'' reference, in [[http://sluggy.com/daily.php?date=020702 this]] ''Webcomic/SluggyFreelance'' strip.
this strip]].
-->'''Gwynn:''' Torg, are you stupid or something (...) [...] running into a gunfight with a sword?
-->'''Torg:'''
sword?\\
'''Torg:'''
A sword is an elegant weapon. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster. ''CHEEEARGE!''
-->''(Torg
''CHEEEARGE!''\\
''[Torg
runs into battle. Cue battle; cue hail of gunfire)''
-->'''Torg''' ''(running away)'':
gunfire]''\\
'''Torg:''' ''[running away]''
Clumsy and random's got my name all over it!
** Double Subverted when the sword ''does'' prove decisive, in that battle and in others down the road. It saved saves the characters more than once, in situations where other weapons would obviously fail (soul trading (soul-trading demons in the spirit world world, for example).
* ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'''s ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'': The Very Reverend Lieutenant Theo Fobius is an accomplished fencer since his seminary days. He even makes it [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-12-04 work]] [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-12-05 for him]]. (Well, [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-03-03 sometimes]].)



* It takes years of training to become a good longbowman, but only a few weeks to learn to how use a gun effectively. Also, longbows could not pierce heavy armour. Therefore, as guns became more effective (and more able to pierce heavy armour) there were fewer and fewer reasons to use longbows in war. Nevertheless, the English [[TheStraightAndArrowPath held onto their traditional longbows and bills for nearly a century after the rest of Europe had switched to pike and shot]]. They were not necessarily wrong to do so. In 1513, the Scots (armed with pikes and muskets) invaded England and were utterly trounced at the battle of Flodden Field (at least partly due to the effectiveness of the longbow against lightly-armoured Scottish troops). The main reason longbows weren't replaced by crossbows in earlier times, which had the same advantage as firearms in that they took far less time to learn to use and didn't require massive physical strength to shoot a heavy projectile, was that [[MoreDakka longbows could still be fired much faster than crossbows]].

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* It takes years of training to become a good longbowman, but only a few weeks to learn to how use a gun effectively. Also, longbows could not pierce heavy armour. armor. Therefore, as guns became more effective (and more able to pierce heavy armour) armor) there were fewer and fewer reasons to use longbows in war. Nevertheless, the English [[TheStraightAndArrowPath held onto their traditional longbows and bills for nearly a century after the rest of Europe had switched to pike and shot]]. They were not necessarily wrong to do so. In 1513, the Scots (armed with pikes and muskets) invaded England and were utterly trounced at the battle of Flodden Field (at least partly due to the effectiveness of the longbow against lightly-armoured lightly-armored Scottish troops). The main reason longbows weren't replaced by crossbows in earlier times, which had the same advantage as firearms in that they took far less time to learn to use and didn't require massive physical strength to shoot a heavy projectile, was that [[MoreDakka longbows could still be fired much faster than crossbows]].
21st Mar '17 3:19:37 PM Gamermaster
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* Belkan-style Devices in the second season of ''MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha'' are optimized for close combat in a variety of forms and they are used by knights. They have honor codes and fealty oaths and other stuff. Their weapons get more common in the third season, but the majority of mages still wield staff-type ranged weapons.

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* Belkan-style Devices in the second season of ''MagicalGirlLyricalNanoha'' ''Franchise/LyricalNanoha'' are optimized for close combat in a variety of forms and they are used by knights. They have honor codes and fealty oaths and other stuff. Their weapons get more common in the third season, but the majority of mages still wield staff-type ranged weapons.
21st Mar '17 4:25:16 AM thok
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* ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'''s The Very Reverend Lieutenant Theo Fobius is an accomplished fencer since his seminary days. He even makes it [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-12-04/ work]] [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-12-05/ for him]]. (Well, [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-03-03/ sometimes]].)

to:

* ''Webcomic/SchlockMercenary'''s The Very Reverend Lieutenant Theo Fobius is an accomplished fencer since his seminary days. He even makes it [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-12-04/ com/2004-12-04 work]] [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2004-12-05/ com/2004-12-05 for him]]. (Well, [[http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-03-03/ com/2001-03-03 sometimes]].)
25th Feb '17 4:28:22 PM nombretomado
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* Inverted in ''TheFiveStarStories''. Personal combat has come back into fashion once more ''not'' because ideas of honor or elegant but because people realized what a waste it was to nuke things from orbit. The goal of most warfare in the series is to conquer territory while doing as little damage to said territory as possible (after all, who wants to rule over a radioactive crater?). The trope is also deconstructed here, as the dominance of showy, impractical weapons like {{Laser Blade}}s and [[BlingBlingBang ridiculously elaborate]], sword-fighting HumongousMecha are seen as a sign that war has become some kind of sick game to the rulers of the galaxy.

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* Inverted in ''TheFiveStarStories''.''Manga/TheFiveStarStories''. Personal combat has come back into fashion once more ''not'' because ideas of honor or elegant but because people realized what a waste it was to nuke things from orbit. The goal of most warfare in the series is to conquer territory while doing as little damage to said territory as possible (after all, who wants to rule over a radioactive crater?). The trope is also deconstructed here, as the dominance of showy, impractical weapons like {{Laser Blade}}s and [[BlingBlingBang ridiculously elaborate]], sword-fighting HumongousMecha are seen as a sign that war has become some kind of sick game to the rulers of the galaxy.
5th Jan '17 1:03:33 AM mugiwara
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-->--'''Obi-Wan Kenobi''', ''Franchise/StarWars:'' ''Film/ANewHope''

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-->--'''Obi-Wan -->-- '''Obi-Wan Kenobi''', ''Franchise/StarWars:'' ''Film/ANewHope''
28th Dec '16 8:45:01 AM Morgenthaler
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* A good way to show the Emperor's savage nature in the Original Trilogy was for him to not use lightsaber but hurting Luke directly with the Force. While the prequels and additional material gave more in depths explanation about Force lightning, the Sith Lord fighting dirty unlike [[FallenHero Vader]] cemented the difference between the two and why Vader could redeem himself.

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* ** A good way to show the Emperor's savage nature in the Original Trilogy was for him to not use lightsaber but hurting Luke directly with the Force. While the prequels and additional material gave more in depths explanation about Force lightning, the Sith Lord fighting dirty unlike [[FallenHero Vader]] cemented the difference between the two and why Vader could redeem himself.
17th Dec '16 8:00:54 PM trixus
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Added DiffLines:

* A good way to show the Emperor's savage nature in the Original Trilogy was for him to not use lightsaber but hurting Luke directly with the Force. While the prequels and additional material gave more in depths explanation about Force lightning, the Sith Lord fighting dirty unlike [[FallenHero Vader]] cemented the difference between the two and why Vader could redeem himself.
3rd Dec '16 4:23:23 AM Morgenthaler
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* Dane Whitman - Marvel's Black Knight who was an ex-Avenger, ex-Defender, ex-Ultraforce, ex-Excalibur and current MI13 member is a highly skilled scientist and engineer and has made high-tech weapons before. But because he's a descendant of a knight of the round table, he prefers using magical swords and armor as a link to his ancestry (not to mention his magical items are better than what he can manufacture with mundane tech).

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* Dane Whitman - Marvel's Black Knight who was an ex-Avenger, ex-Defender, ex-Ultraforce, ex-Excalibur and current MI13 [=MI13=] member is a highly skilled scientist and engineer and has made high-tech weapons before. But because he's a descendant of a knight of the round table, he prefers using magical swords and armor as a link to his ancestry (not to mention his magical items are better than what he can manufacture with mundane tech).
3rd Dec '16 4:22:53 AM Morgenthaler
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* The [[KingdomHearts Keyblade Wielders]] were once common enough to form a Knighthood. By the time the first game rolls around, there are only a few left.

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* ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts'': The [[KingdomHearts Keyblade Wielders]] Wielders were once common enough to form a Knighthood. By the time the first game rolls around, there are only a few left.
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