History Main / DumpStat

18th Nov '17 12:36:46 AM infernape612
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* Pitchers in baseball tend to have hitting as their dump stat as they spend virtually [[CripplingOverspecialization no time working to improve it]]. The Amarican League overcome this problem by use of the Designated Hitter, a man who bats instead of the pitcher but doesn't field (The National League isn't allowed to do this, and even the American League team can't if they're playing against a National League team).

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* Pitchers in baseball tend to have hitting as their dump stat as they spend virtually [[CripplingOverspecialization no time working to improve it]]. The Amarican League overcome overcomes this problem by use of the Designated Hitter, a man who bats instead of the pitcher but doesn't field (The (the National League isn't allowed to do this, and even the American League team can't if they're playing against a National League team).
18th Nov '17 12:35:08 AM infernape612
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* [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Fire Emblem Binding Blade]] also averts this trope for a different reason. In most other games in the series, Skill and Luck are considered as the dump stat. The former (and the latter to an extent) boost accuracy, which you already have enough of in most cases. The latter lowers critical activation rate, which the enemy generally has little of in the first place. Here, however:

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* [[VideoGame/FireEmblemElibe Fire Emblem Binding Blade]] ''VideoGame/FireEmblemTheBindingBlade'' also averts this trope for a different reason. In most other games in the series, Skill and Luck are considered as the dump stat. The former (and the latter to an extent) boost accuracy, which you already have enough of in most cases. The latter lowers critical activation rate, which the enemy generally has little of in the first place. Here, however:
18th Nov '17 12:30:42 AM infernape612
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* The stat is an ill-defined "flavor" stat that doesn't help your character survive the frozen wasteland or kill the evil troll king. After all, how much sense does it make to pump your Orc barbarian's hairdressing skill? [[spoiler:It depends on the amount of dreadlocks you need for your hair]]

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* The stat is an ill-defined "flavor" stat that doesn't help your character survive the frozen wasteland or kill the evil troll king. After all, how much sense does it make to pump your Orc barbarian's hairdressing skill? [[spoiler:It depends on the amount of dreadlocks you need for your hair]]hair.]]
15th Nov '17 3:05:45 PM Magpiesapocalypse
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** In ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga'', Luck is a complete waste. The rare times you'll be using ailments (the main skills that rely on luck), you'll be using them against weakness which means always-accurate. Hitting and dodging? You're better off with Agility. In fact, Luck being your dump stat is practically ''essential'' to beating the infamous BonusBoss, as you need to goad his flunkies into putting you to sleep if you want to survive his GameBreaker attacks.
12th Nov '17 6:58:07 AM Luigifan
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Another common cause of dump stats is tweaks to the game system during testing. Initially, maybe Diplomacy was wicked awesome; however, it let a savvy player win the game in ten minutes without lifting a finger. Unfortunately, when they scaled the skill back enough to prevent that contingency, they also scaled back the completely reasonable uses of the skill to the point where it's not worth using in any situation. This occurs frequently in game testing because some powers don't scale well; putting a few points into the skill works as intended, but putting ''all'' of your points into the skill breaks the game. Diminishing returns are really hard to balance and, honestly, how many bored players are going to choose to go through your high-octane first person shooter with maximized Basket Weaving anyway?

Not to be confused with "the stat you dump all your points into", that's OneStatToRuleThemAll (also often referred to as the God Stat).

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Another common cause of dump stats is tweaks to the game system during testing. Initially, maybe Diplomacy was wicked awesome; however, it let a savvy player win the game in ten minutes without lifting a finger. Unfortunately, when they scaled the skill back enough to prevent that contingency, they also scaled back the completely reasonable uses of the skill to the point where it's not worth using in any situation. This occurs frequently in game testing because some powers don't scale well; putting a few points into the skill works as intended, but putting ''all'' of your points into the skill breaks the game. [[DiminishingReturnsForBalance Diminishing returns are really hard to balance balance]] and, honestly, how many bored players are going to choose to go through your high-octane first person shooter with maximized Basket Weaving anyway?

Not to be confused with "the stat you dump all your points into", into": that's OneStatToRuleThemAll (also often referred to as the God Stat).



* Near the end of B-Daman Fireblast[=/=]season 2 of Anime/BDamanCrossfire, Kamon and Riki receive Ultimate upgrades of Drive Garuburn and Rising Dracyan. While Kamon's Garuburn's stats and abilities make them a MasterOfAll, Ultimate Rising Dracyan's specialty is attack, and only attack. This becomes a problem for Riki when he has to face Bakuga in the semi finals of the Phoenix Grand Prix.
* In Anime/BeybladeBurst, Xander's bey, Xeno Xcalius's design maximizes attack by specializing in One Hit Kills, but has critically low stamina.

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* Near the end of B-Daman Fireblast[=/=]season ''B-Daman Fireblast''[=/=]season 2 of Anime/BDamanCrossfire, ''Anime/BDamanCrossfire'', Kamon and Riki receive Ultimate upgrades of Drive Garuburn and Rising Dracyan. While Kamon's Garuburn's stats and abilities make them a MasterOfAll, Ultimate Rising Dracyan's specialty is attack, and only attack. This becomes a problem for Riki when he has to face Bakuga in the semi finals of the Phoenix Grand Prix.
* In Anime/BeybladeBurst, ''Anime/BeybladeBurst'', Xander's bey, Xeno Xcalius's design maximizes attack by specializing in One Hit Kills, but has critically low stamina.



* [[TabletopGame/SeventhSea 7th Sea]] specifically sought to avoid this by making sure every single stat had some sort of critical effect on combat: Brawn affected your damage rolls (both ability to withstand Flesh Wounds and how much you caused when you hit), Finesse affected your chance to hit in the first place, Wits determined how hard it was to hit you, Resolve how many Dramatic Wounds you could take before being taken out and Panache how many actions you got to make per turn. The game's 2nd edition is seen by many to have taken this even further, as the new, narrative system means there's now essentially no mechanical difference whatsoever between the stats - every stat can be used to perform any action or paired with every skill, so much as the system is concerned. The only caveat is that you get increasing penalties each time per scene you use the same one, so people can't just apply their strongest stat to everything.
** One should note, for many, rather than solving the problem of Dump Stats, the decision to make all stats equally important in the first edition rather hurt the game's atmosphere since it's supposed to be about larger-than-life swashbuckling heroes yet the rule incentivized creating characters with rather unimpressive, "solid all around" stat arrays rather than anything cool, because dumping even one would've been too disadvantageous.

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* [[TabletopGame/SeventhSea ''[[TabletopGame/SeventhSea 7th Sea]] Sea]]'' specifically sought to avoid this by making sure every single stat had some sort of critical effect on combat: Brawn affected your damage rolls (both ability to withstand Flesh Wounds and how much you caused when you hit), Finesse affected your chance to hit in the first place, Wits determined how hard it was to hit you, Resolve how many Dramatic Wounds you could take before being taken out out, and Panache how many actions you got to make per turn. The game's 2nd edition is seen by many to have taken this even further, as the new, narrative system means there's now essentially no mechanical difference whatsoever between the stats - -- every stat can be used to perform any action or paired with every skill, so much as the system is concerned. The only caveat is that you get increasing penalties each time per scene you use the same one, so people can't just apply their strongest stat to everything.
** One should note, for many, rather than solving the problem of Dump Stats, the decision to make all stats equally important in the first edition rather hurt the game's atmosphere atmosphere, since it's supposed to be about larger-than-life swashbuckling heroes heroes, yet the rule incentivized creating characters with rather unimpressive, "solid all around" stat arrays rather than anything cool, because dumping even one would've been too disadvantageous.



** In Sixth Edition TabletopGame/HeroSystem (which is based on ''Champions''), the Comeliness stat has been dropped -- if you want looks that have an in-game effect, you buy Striking Appearance. If you don't care if your looks have any in-game effect, you can define them however you want.

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** In Sixth Edition TabletopGame/HeroSystem ''TabletopGame/HeroSystem'' (which is based on ''Champions''), the Comeliness stat has been dropped -- if you want looks that have an in-game effect, you buy Striking Appearance. If you don't care if your looks have any in-game effect, you can define them however you want.



* Every build in ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' has at least one Dump Stat. One of the keys to good MinMaxing is to identify your dump stats - what don't you need/want to care about? The D&D 3.5 community developed the term [=MAD=] (Multiple ability Dependency) as a criticism of classes that ''couldn't'' effectively dump several stats, and had to spread their resources too thin to be effective at anything--a classic case of MasterOfNone. Some notable cases of and references to Dump Stats are listed below,
** Strength for most Arcane casters. At lower levels, anything not worth using a spell on isn't worth the damage bonuses that Strength provides to physical attacks, while at higher levels, using Polymorph to turn into a creature with high Strength is the best option if you can't use your offensive spells. The only disadvantage comes from the encumbrance rules, but spells, magic items, and pack animals provide easy ways around a low carrying capacity. Beyond that, in 3.5, if you have a good Dexterity score and a 'light weapon' you can take a feat to use your Dex modifier instead of your Strength modifier for attack rolls.
** The one golden rule for any successful build is to never ever dump Constitution. Ever. You don't need it sky high but you should never under any circumstances give it a value below 10, even if you are a purely ranged combatant. Better aim for a 12-13, a bit more for melees if you can spare the points. But dumping Constitution is the fastest way to ensure an early grave for your character, as Constitution determines how many HitPoints you have, which you need to stay alive.

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* Every build in ''TabletopGame/DungeonsAndDragons'' has at least one Dump Stat. One of the keys to good MinMaxing is to identify your dump stats - -- what don't you need/want to care about? The D&D 3.5 community developed the term [=MAD=] (Multiple ability Dependency) as a criticism of classes that ''couldn't'' effectively dump several stats, and had to spread their resources too thin to be effective at anything--a anything -- a classic case of MasterOfNone. Some notable cases of and references to Dump Stats are listed below,
** Strength for most Arcane casters. At lower levels, anything not worth using a spell on isn't worth the damage bonuses that Strength provides to physical attacks, while at higher levels, using Polymorph to turn into a creature with high Strength is the best option if you can't use your offensive spells. The only disadvantage comes from the encumbrance rules, but spells, magic items, and pack animals provide easy ways around a low carrying capacity. Beyond that, in 3.5, if you have a good Dexterity score and a 'light weapon' weapon', you can take a feat to use your Dex modifier instead of your Strength modifier for attack rolls.
** The one golden rule for any successful build is to never ever dump Constitution. Ever. You don't need it sky high high, but you should never under any circumstances give it a value below 10, even if you are a purely ranged combatant. Better aim for a 12-13, a bit more for melees if you can spare the points. But dumping Constitution is the fastest way to ensure an early grave for your character, as Constitution determines how many HitPoints you have, which you need to stay alive.



*** In 3rd Edition and 3.5, Charisma was the only ability score that did not improve a secondary statistic or saving throw (such as Strength improving your melee accuracy, or Intelligence giving you more skill points per level). This makes Charisma mechanically of less use unless you have a spellcasting or class ability whose effectiveness is tied to it. The only real universal use for Charisma is for social skills, but since the Diplomacy rules in 3.5 are so ill-defined and dependant on your DM's interpretation (what exactly is the difference between "Friendly" and "Helpful"? Is your campaign entirely dungeon-crawling or do social challenges play an important role?) it can swing between a complete DumpStat and the OneStatToRuleThemAll.
*** In earlier editions, Charisma was needed to hire and keep the henchmen that were helpful for survival at lower levels -- not much use after that except improving NPC relations. Usually the party needs only one charismatic negotiator. ''ForgottenRealms'' paid attention to non-hack and slash play, so there's [[http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Gayrlana_Bloodsword a classic character]] ([[http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=5042&editionid=5650 AD&D 1 campaign set]] and ''[[http://web.archive.org/web/20080506030618/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads Gold and Glory]]'') apparently existing just to give a decisive answer on two questions: "who needs topped out ''Charisma''?" and "{{What Kind Of Lame Power Is|HeartAnyway}} ''Mindlink'' Anyway?". Not many adventurers get ''one'' [[WhenTreesAttack treant]], [[ChestMonster mimic]] ''or'' [[EyeBeams beholder]] hireling...
** 4th Edition avoids having a universal Dump Stat. The three defenses (Fortitude, Reflex and Will) are each based on the ''higher'' of two stats; Str/Con, Dex/Int and Wis/Cha respectively, so every stat has some intrinsic value while still allowing for each build to have its own Dump Stats. That being said, some stats consistently show up as Dump Stats for builds not based around them:

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*** In 3rd Edition and 3.5, Charisma was the only ability score that did not improve a secondary statistic or saving throw (such as Strength improving your melee accuracy, or Intelligence giving you more skill points per level). This makes Charisma mechanically of less use unless you have a spellcasting or class ability whose effectiveness is tied to it. The only real universal use for Charisma is for social skills, but since the Diplomacy rules in 3.5 are so ill-defined and dependant on your DM's interpretation (what exactly is the difference between "Friendly" and "Helpful"? Is your campaign entirely dungeon-crawling or do social challenges play an important role?) role?), it can swing between a complete DumpStat and the OneStatToRuleThemAll.
*** In earlier editions, Charisma was needed to hire and keep the henchmen that were helpful for survival at lower levels -- not much use after that except improving NPC relations. Usually the party needs only one charismatic negotiator. ''ForgottenRealms'' paid attention to non-hack and slash play, so there's [[http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Gayrlana_Bloodsword a classic character]] ([[http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=5042&editionid=5650 AD&D 1 campaign set]] and ''[[http://web.archive.org/web/20080506030618/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads Gold and Glory]]'') apparently existing just to give a decisive answer on two questions: "who needs topped out ''Charisma''?" and "{{What Kind Of Lame Power Is|HeartAnyway}} ''Mindlink'' Anyway?". Not many adventurers get ''one'' [[WhenTreesAttack treant]], [[ChestMonster mimic]] mimic]], ''or'' [[EyeBeams beholder]] hireling...
** 4th Edition avoids having a universal Dump Stat. The three defenses (Fortitude, Reflex Reflex, and Will) are each based on the ''higher'' of two stats; Str/Con, Dex/Int Dex/Int, and Wis/Cha Wis/Cha, respectively, so every stat has some intrinsic value while still allowing for each build to have its own Dump Stats. That being said, some stats consistently show up as Dump Stats for builds not based around them:



*** Intelligence. Dexterity grants an initiative bonus and Dex-based skills are necessary for survival in a dungeon, while Arcana is the only major skill that gets bonuses from Intelligence, making Dex a much better choice for classes not based on Int. (Note that Int and Dex both apply to AC, whichever is higher, but if you're wearing heavy armor, ''neither'' apply. Sometimes you can dump both if you don't mind a low Reflex defense or are using a shield since shields also boost your reflex defense.)
*** Charisma and Wisdom. Aside from the bonus to Will defense and class-specific abilities, these stats are mainly useful for skills that ''someone'' in the party needs to have, but not ''everyone''. As such, builds that aren't based around Cha or Wis can afford to dump one of them. If the class you've chosen needs neither it's usually a better choice to dump Charisma as the important Perception skill keys off Wisdom.

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*** Intelligence. Dexterity grants an initiative bonus and Dex-based skills are necessary for survival in a dungeon, while Arcana is the only major skill that gets bonuses from Intelligence, making Dex a much better choice for classes not based on Int. (Note that Int and Dex both apply to AC, whichever is higher, but if you're wearing heavy armor, ''neither'' apply. Sometimes you can dump both if you don't mind a low Reflex defense or are using a shield shield, since shields also boost your reflex defense.)
*** Charisma and Wisdom. Aside from the bonus to Will defense and class-specific abilities, these stats are mainly useful for skills that ''someone'' in the party needs to have, but not ''everyone''. As such, builds that aren't based around Cha or Wis can afford to dump one of them. If the class you've chosen needs neither neither, it's usually a better choice to dump Charisma Charisma, as the important Perception skill keys off Wisdom.



*** Most 4th edition characters need two good stats to work properly. Their main stat, which covers attack and damage rolls, and a secondary one depending on their powers (like Rangers and Paladins needing at least a little bit of Wisdom, and the Fighter either Wis, Dex or Con depending on the weapon for secondary effects). Anything else can be dropped in case of extremely bad dice rolls.

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*** Most 4th edition characters need two good stats to work properly. Their main stat, which covers attack and damage rolls, and a secondary one depending on their powers (like Rangers and Paladins needing at least a little bit of Wisdom, and the Fighter either Wis, Dex Dex, or Con depending on the weapon for secondary effects). Anything else can be dropped in case of extremely bad dice rolls.



* R. Talsorian's ''TabletopGame/{{Mekton}}'' and ''TabletopGame/{{Cyberpunk}}'' games effectively made every stat except Reflexes (and possibly Body) a Dump Stat. The Reflexes stat was the OneStatToRuleThemAll: all-important to every aspect of combat and if your character ''did'' happen to get hit, Body determined how hurt he was. Several of the others - Empathy, Cool, and Technical Ability, were worthless. The most {{egregious}} of these was Attractiveness. No. Use. At. All. That said, house-rules can save other stats - something so simple as a "Luck Save" will convince PlayerCharacters not to skimp on anything. [[ButtMonkey Except Attractiveness]].

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* R. Talsorian's ''TabletopGame/{{Mekton}}'' and ''TabletopGame/{{Cyberpunk}}'' games effectively made every stat except Reflexes (and possibly Body) a Dump Stat. The Reflexes stat was the OneStatToRuleThemAll: all-important to every aspect of combat and if your character ''did'' happen to get hit, Body determined how hurt he was. Several of the others - -- Empathy, Cool, and Technical Ability, Ability -- were worthless. The most {{egregious}} of these was Attractiveness. No. Use. At. All. That said, house-rules can save other stats - -- something so simple as a "Luck Save" will convince PlayerCharacters not to skimp on anything. [[ButtMonkey Except Attractiveness]].
10th Nov '17 7:40:12 AM BeerBaron
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* ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' series has a few, though players focusing on roleplaying can find uses for many of the stats listed below.
** Personality in ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion'': there are ways to boost the stat for the infrequent few seconds you need it, and you typically only need it for a few seconds because time freezes when you start a conversation.
** Personality was also a Dump Stat in the first two Elder Scrolls games (plus the [[GaidenGame spin-off]] ''Battlespire''). In ''[[Videogame/TheElderScrollsArena Arena]]'', all it affected was prices, [[MoneyForNothing which wasn't really an issue past the very early stages of the game.]] In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIDaggerfall Daggerfall]]'' it also affected whether the randomly generated townspeople would give you information, but even with the lowest possible starting Personality, you could just ask someone else and would always find what you were looking for in a few tries. In ''Battlespire'' it's ''even more'' useless since just about anything you talk to is trying to kill you anyway!
** If the game didn't give you unlimited skill points, security (the skill governing your ability to pick locks) would be this in ''Oblivion'': successfully picking a lock is based more on player skill than anything else; high Security only slows down the tumblers to make them easier to set (which is already easy with practice) and affects what happens when you fail to set a tumbler (each Security "perk" reducing the number of tumblers that fall back into place by one). Additionally, the Open Lock spell makes lockpicking redundant, and the Skeleton Key gives effectively infinite lockpicking attempts. In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'', on the other hand, lockpicking is based on character skill instead of player skill, so Security is a worthwhile investment . . . at least so long as you didn't bother enchanting items with Unlock spells.
** Monster language skills in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIDaggerfall Daggerfall]]'': they only allow you to speak with a particular class of monster to have a chance to avoid combat. Even more useless as you also needed to sheathe your weapon, not a good idea in a monster-filled dungeon.
** In ''Morrowind'', there really wasn't any need to bother with the Destruction skill since all the damaging spell effects it incorporated were massively trumped by Mysticism's Absorb Health. ''Oblivion'' partially averted this by making Absorb Health a touch-only effect, but in a sense compensated for that by moving it to Restoration (thus giving all the more reason to invest in said skill). As such, Mysticism became even more of a dump-skill than Destruction. For that matter, with the removal of Levitation and Jump effects between ''Morrowind'' and ''Oblivion'' (combined with the ease of lockpicking in the latter), Alteration got likewise nerfed from one of the best schools to one of the worst.
** Willpower in ''Oblivion''. One of the only things it affects is your maximum fatigue, which is also affected by other stats. It also controls your rate of magicka regeneration, but it's more effective to increase your Intelligence so you have more magicka in the first place. In addition, mages often take Atronach birthsign which give you additional mana and chance of absorbing enemy spell but completely stop mana regeneration.
** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'', they've gotten rid of stats all together. Everything boils down to Health, Magicka, and Stamina. There are, however, ''dump-skills'' that would be inefficient to waste perk points on; Lockpicking and Speech work just fine without putting any perk points into them or artificially trying to raise them.
*** It is wise to invest a few points into speech, if only enough to get the Merchant perk, which allows you to sell ''any'' item to ''any'' merchant. If you make your home at the College of Winterhold, where it's guaranteed that there will be five to six merchants with about 500 gold each, you'll easily be able to make two or three thousand Septims off of the random junk you find while exploring.

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* ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' series has a few, though players focusing on roleplaying can find uses ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''
** Throughout the series, save
for many of the stats listed below.
**
''Skyrim'' which did away with Attributes, Personality in ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion'': there are ways to boost is a major Dump Stat. Both it and the stat for skills it governs (particularly Speechcraft) [[CharmPerson can be increased temporarily by numerous means]] (spells, potions, enchantments, racial powers, etc.) when needed. Since [[TalkingIsAFreeAction the infrequent few seconds you need it, and you typically only need it for a few seconds because game time freezes freezes]] when you start enter into a conversation.
**
conversation, you can easily create something to increase Personality was also a Dump Stat in considerably for 1 second. Use it, then immediately enter the first two Elder Scrolls games (plus conversation. The effect will persist until you leave the [[GaidenGame spin-off]] ''Battlespire''). In ''[[Videogame/TheElderScrollsArena Arena]]'', all it affected was prices, [[MoneyForNothing which wasn't really an issue past the very early stages of the game.]] In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIDaggerfall Daggerfall]]'' it also affected whether the randomly generated townspeople would give you information, but even with the lowest possible starting Personality, you could just ask someone else and would always find what you were looking for in a few tries. In ''Battlespire'' it's ''even more'' useless since just about anything you talk to is trying to kill you anyway!
** If the game didn't give you unlimited skill points, security (the skill governing your ability to pick locks) would be this in ''Oblivion'': successfully picking a lock is based more on player skill than anything else; high Security only slows down the tumblers to make them easier to set (which is already easy with practice) and affects what happens when you fail to set a tumbler (each Security "perk" reducing the number of tumblers that fall back into place by one). Additionally, the Open Lock spell makes lockpicking redundant, and the Skeleton Key gives effectively infinite lockpicking attempts. In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'', on the other hand, lockpicking is based on character skill instead of player skill, so Security is a worthwhile investment . . . at least so long as you didn't bother enchanting items with Unlock spells.
conversation.
** Monster language skills in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIDaggerfall Daggerfall]]'': they only allow you to speak with a particular class of monster to have a chance to avoid combat. Even more useless as you also needed to sheathe your weapon, which is not a good idea in a monster-filled dungeon.
** In ''Morrowind'', there really wasn't any need to bother with the Destruction skill since all the damaging spell effects it incorporated were massively trumped by Mysticism's Absorb Health. ''Oblivion'' partially averted and ''Skyrim'', the Security Skill is this. It governs your ability to pick locks, but in these two games, picking a lock is based more on player skill than anything else. A high Security Skill makes it somewhat easier (and saves you from breaking as many lockpicks), but a skilled player can easily pick even the highest leveled locks with a minimum Security Skill. Notably, this is not the case in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'', where the success of picking a lock is up to the RandomNumberGod. A higher Security Skill increases your odds of picking it, while having too low of a security skill will make it impossible to pick higher leveled locks. (The game does mitigate this by making Absorb Health offering an "Unlock" spell, which can be used instead. However, a touch-only effect, but in a sense compensated for that by moving it max level Unlock spell costs an immense amount Magicka to Restoration (thus giving all the more reason to invest in said skill). As such, Mysticism became even more of cast as a dump-skill than Destruction. For that matter, with the removal of Levitation spell and Jump effects between ''Morrowind'' and ''Oblivion'' (combined with the ease of lockpicking in the latter), Alteration got likewise nerfed from one of the best schools cost an exorbitant amount to one of the worst.
create as an enchantment.)
** The Willpower Attribute in ''Oblivion''.''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]''. One of the only things it affects is your maximum fatigue, which is also affected by other stats. It also controls your rate of magicka regeneration, but it's more effective to increase your Intelligence so you have more magicka in the first place. In addition, mages often take Atronach birthsign which give you additional mana and chance of absorbing enemy spell but completely stop mana regeneration.
** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'', they've gotten rid of stats Attributes all together. Everything boils down to Health, Magicka, and Stamina. There are, however, ''dump-skills'' that would be inefficient to waste perk points on; for example, Lockpicking and Speech work (as noted above) works just fine without putting any perk points into them or artificially trying to raise them.
*** It is wise to invest a few points into speech, if only enough to get the Merchant perk, which allows you to sell ''any'' item to ''any'' merchant. If you make your home at the College of Winterhold, where it's guaranteed that there will be five to six merchants with about 500 gold each, you'll easily be able to make two or three thousand Septims off of the random junk you find while exploring.
them.
9th Nov '17 4:38:03 PM AuraGuardian
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** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'', they've gotten rid of stats all together. Everything boils down to Health, Magic, and Fatigue. There are, however, ''dump-skills'' that would be inefficient to waste perk points on; Lockpicking and Speech work just fine without putting any perk points into them or artificially trying to raise them.

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** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'', they've gotten rid of stats all together. Everything boils down to Health, Magic, Magicka, and Fatigue.Stamina. There are, however, ''dump-skills'' that would be inefficient to waste perk points on; Lockpicking and Speech work just fine without putting any perk points into them or artificially trying to raise them.
7th Nov '17 8:28:50 AM RandomNumberReactor
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* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyX'', Luck is a dump stat, but not for the reason you'd expect. In terms of what it does for your characters, Luck is absolutely godly, combining the effects of two other stats (in a game that generally averts this trope) and increasing your critical hit rate to cap it all. The problem is that the developers realized this, and made the Luck stat ridiculously hard to actually put points in - while you'll have more of the spheres increasing every other stat than you know what to do with, you'll get a grand total of four spheres for Luck boosts over the course of the main game, and if you want more you'll have to kill one of the game's {{Bonus Boss}}es at the Monster Arena, for one each time. Most players just invest in the two other stats (Accuracy and Evade), since it's just so much easier to do.

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* In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyX'', Luck is a dump stat, but not for the reason you'd expect. In terms of what it does for your characters, Luck is absolutely godly, combining the effects of two other stats (in a game that generally averts this trope) and increasing your critical hit rate to cap it all. The problem is that the developers realized this, and made the Luck stat ridiculously hard to actually put points in - while you'll have more of the spheres increasing every other stat than you know what to do with, you'll get a grand total of four spheres for Luck boosts over the course of the main game, and if you want more you'll have to kill one of the game's {{Bonus Boss}}es at the Monster Arena, for one each time. Most players just invest in the two other stats (Accuracy and Evade), since it's just so much easier to do. However, those wanting to challenge [[BonusBoss Dark Aeons and Penance]] in International/PAL/HD releases or [[MinMaxing Min-Maxers]] will make it other way around, since being able to hit some of them requires high Luck and Accuracy won't help much with that, and because raising Luck takes less space in Sphere grid than raising both Accuracy and Evasion.
5th Nov '17 11:49:04 PM TheShatterer
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** For Hive Minds,which get an automatic +25% to pop growth speed, the -20% pop growth speed of ''Slow Breeders'' is an easy choice, as you'll still have 5% faster growth than normal empires. Especially considering Hive Minds are locked out of 2/3 ascension paths, only able to take the Biological Engineering, ensuring they can remove the trait later anyway.
29th Oct '17 2:11:29 PM armogohma
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*** That said, Intelligence has lost a lot of usefulness. With skill points replaced with a flat proficiency bonus, Intelligence no longer influences any skills by default except Investigation and knowledge skills. Only the Wizard and two specific subclasses get any use out of Intelligence beyond those 5 skills.
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