History Main / DumpStat

20th Jul '16 9:34:32 AM caesium_orange
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* High performance vehicles typically use driver comfort, ride quality, interior luxury and cargo space as their dump stats. Sometimes justified in the pursuit of higher performance and saving weight, but sometimes not where the modifications are a form of performance theatre to make the driver ''feel'' that they are going faster. The Bugatti Veyron goes the opposite way; It's an ''extremely'' luxurious vehicle, with all the creature comforts you'd expect from a less sporty vehicle, good insulation, ride stability, etc, while retaining a massively powerful engine. It sacrifices weight and handling instead : the car weights about 2 tons. Despite its ''ludicrous'' acceleration potential and record-setting top speed, it has failed to beat slower[[note]]that's a relative term[[/note]] vehicles at the Nurburgring trial due to its lack of cornering strength.

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* High performance vehicles typically use driver comfort, ride quality, interior luxury and cargo space as their dump stats. Sometimes justified in the pursuit of higher performance and saving weight, but sometimes not where the modifications are a form of performance theatre to make the driver ''feel'' that they are going faster. The [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron Bugatti Veyron Veyron]] goes the opposite way; It's it's an ''extremely'' luxurious vehicle, with all the creature comforts you'd expect from a less sporty vehicle, good insulation, ride stability, etc, while retaining a massively powerful engine. It sacrifices weight and handling instead : the car weights about 2 tons. Despite As a result, the Veyron was soundly beaten by lighter vehicles like the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_991#911_GT3 Porsche 911 GT3]] and [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_(C6)#ZR1 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1]] at the Nürburgring Nordschleife, despite its positively ''ludicrous'' acceleration potential and record-setting top speed, it has failed to beat slower[[note]]that's a relative term[[/note]] vehicles at the Nurburgring trial due to its lack of cornering strength.speed.
9th Jul '16 4:47:25 PM IamTheCaligula
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* Subverted with early ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTensei'' games. The PlayerCharacter is usually unable to use magic, but is still able to increase Intelligence (normally a universal DumpStat) and Magic. Despite this, they are still both important as Intelligence increases the success of demon negotiation regardless of the game it appears in, and without a decent Magic or Intelligence stat most end-game spells can rip a character to pieces. The second game goes a bit further by requiring the main character to have at least ten Magic points at one point in order to win a dance contest.



* Altough ''VideoGame/TorchlightII'' is a legitimately good game, Dexterity is by very far the worst stat in the whole game, even for the Outlander class that is supposed to improve this stat above all else : it gives a very weak increase in critical hit chance, that gets weaker with each point invested and doesn't give any noticeable increase in damage unless you have a lot (and really, a LOT) of Strength to get an increse in critical hit damage, an increase in dodge rate, also with diminishing returns but justified in this case, that hits a hard cap quickly and is helpless against area attacks that are everywhere at high level, and a decrease in damage penalties of "fumbled" attacks, that happen for 20% of basic attacks and never happen for special skills that all classes spam continuously rather than using basic attacks. The Outlander class was as a result very inefficient with its main weapons since dumping Dexterity meant only using the crappiest ranged weapons and increasing it meant lacking in other stats, and Outlander builds using anything else were more powerful.
* ''VideoGame/PAYDAY2'' has Health, Armor, Dodge, Stamina, Steadiness, and Speed for character stats. Each stat is determined by whatever skills you unlocked in each skill tree, what perk deck you have equipped, and the type of armor you are wearing. Heavy armor will give more armor at the cost of not being able to dodge bullets and moving slower and tiring out faster when sprinting while light armor or even wearing no armor makes you be able to dodge bullets via random chance and be able to run really fast for a while before tiring out at the risk of going down quickly due to your lack of armor. A lot of players gravitate towards dodge builds where they focus on having a high dodge stat and dump the armor stat since moving quickly means they can zip from cover to cover and move loot quickly whereas heavy armor users can't run across the street without getting mowed down by the police. While it is possible to play in a setup where you have a ton of armor and shoot from cover, it won't protect you if A) cops focus their fire on you and B) Cloakers can instantly incapacitate you, regardless of your health or armor.
* In the game ''VideoGame/PunchClub'', you have three skill trees to work with with one of them being the dump stat. [[GlassCannon Way of the Bear]] is all about hard hitting strikes while sacrificing agility, meaning you'll whiff a lot of attacks which suck up energy. [[FragileSpeedster Way of the Tiger]] is all about hitting people hard and often, though you sacrifice stamina in your fights. [[MightyGlacier Way of the Turtle]] is all about being a tank, making people wear themselves out trying to take you down, though you'll also have to sacrifice agility.
* Subverted with early ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTensei'' games. The PlayerCharacter is usually unable to use magic, but is still able to increase Intelligence (normally a universal DumpStat) and Magic. Despite this, they are still both important as Intelligence increases the success of demon negotiation regardless of the game it appears in, and without a decent Magic or Intelligence stat most end-game spells can rip a character to pieces. The second game goes a bit further by requiring the main character to have at least ten Magic points at one point in order to win a dance contest.



* Altough ''VideoGame/TorchlightII'' is a legitimately good game, Dexterity is by very far the worst stat in the whole game, even for the Outlander class that is supposed to improve this stat above all else : it gives a very weak increase in critical hit chance, that gets weaker with each point invested and doesn't give any noticeable increase in damage unless you have a lot (and really, a LOT) of Strength to get an increse in critical hit damage, an increase in dodge rate, also with diminishing returns but justified in this case, that hits a hard cap quickly and is helpless against area attacks that are everywhere at high level, and a decrease in damage penalties of "fumbled" attacks, that happen for 20% of basic attacks and never happen for special skills that all classes spam continuously rather than using basic attacks. The Outlander class was as a result very inefficient with its main weapons since dumping Dexterity meant only using the crappiest ranged weapons and increasing it meant lacking in other stats, and Outlander builds using anything else were more powerful.

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* Altough ''VideoGame/TorchlightII'' ''VideoGame/ThisWarOfMine'' has combat ability, backpack size, movement speed, and empathy as primary character stats. Needless to say, empathy is a legitimately good game, Dexterity is by very far often seen as the worst stat in the whole game, even for the Outlander class that is supposed to improve this stat above all else : DumpStat, since it gives a very weak increase in critical hit chance, that gets weaker with each point invested and doesn't take much to improve survivors' morale, or it's more prudent to steal with a lower empathy stat. While these individual stats cannot be modified, it does set a number of characters focused on the OneStatToRuleThemAll (such as Marko and Roman) to be at the top of the tier list while the only one survivor with a high empathy stat, Boris, being immensely useful (while Zlata is average and Cveta is a TierInducedScrappy).
* Did you LevelGrind in ''VideoGame/{{Undertale}}''? Why? Did you want to max out your stats and become strong? Is that why you walked down the KillEmAll path? Is that why you're carrying around the [[InfinityPlusOneSword Real Knife]] and [[ArmorOfInvincibility Locket]]? Well, it has certainly paid off, hasn't it? I mean, look at yourself: You're strong enough to OneHitKill anyone you encounter, you're nigh-invaunerable and have enough HP to shrug off any attack that can get past your defenses. And there's only one enemy left now, too. Want me to
give any noticeable increase in damage unless you have a lot (and really, spoiler? He's the weakest enemy in the entire game. He has a LOT) measly [[OneHitPointWonder 1 HP, 1 DEF]] and [[ScratchDamage 1 ATK]]. That's right, ''all'' of Strength to get an increse in critical hit damage, an increase in dodge rate, also with diminishing returns but justified in this case, his stats are dump stats... Man, it'd be ''a real shame'' if [[SNKBoss he]] [[DeathOfAThousandCuts showed you]] [[NonchalantDodge that hits a hard cap quickly and power]] [[MarathonBoss is helpless against area attacks that are everywhere at high level, and a decrease in damage penalties of "fumbled" attacks, that happen for 20% of basic attacks and never happen for special skills that all classes spam continuously rather than using basic attacks. The Outlander class was as a result very inefficient with its main weapons since dumping Dexterity meant only using the crappiest ranged weapons and increasing it meant lacking in other stats, and Outlander builds using anything else were more powerful.worthless]] [[VideoGameCrueltyPunishment when you're choking on your sins]], huh?



* HP in ''VideoGame/TheWorldEndsWithYou''. Not because it isn't useful, but because the only thing that has much effect on it is your effective level. Equipment can have a huge effect on your other stats, but will never do much, positive or negative, to HP, even if the item is dedicated to it. The gains from food are so minimal that it's only really worth bothering if the character has maxed everything else.



* HP in ''VideoGame/TheWorldEndsWithYou''. Not because it isn't useful, but because the only thing that has much effect on it is your effective level. Equipment can have a huge effect on your other stats, but will never do much, positive or negative, to HP, even if the item is dedicated to it. The gains from food are so minimal that it's only really worth bothering if the character has maxed everything else.



* In the game ''VideoGame/PunchClub'', you have three skill trees to work with with one of them being the dump stat. [[GlassCannon Way of the Bear]] is all about hard hitting strikes while sacrificing agility, meaning you'll whiff a lot of attacks which suck up energy. [[FragileSpeedster Way of the Tiger]] is all about hitting people hard and often, though you sacrifice stamina in your fights. [[MightyGlacier Way of the Turtle]] is all about being a tank, making people wear themselves out trying to take you down, though you'll also have to sacrifice agility.
* ''VideoGame/PAYDAY2'' has Health, Armor, Dodge, Stamina, Steadiness, and Speed for character stats. Each stat is determined by whatever skills you unlocked in each skill tree, what perk deck you have equipped, and the type of armor you are wearing. Heavy armor will give more armor at the cost of not being able to dodge bullets and moving slower and tiring out faster when sprinting while light armor or even wearing no armor makes you be able to dodge bullets via random chance and be able to run really fast for a while before tiring out at the risk of going down quickly due to your lack of armor. A lot of players gravitate towards dodge builds where they focus on having a high dodge stat and dump the armor stat since moving quickly means they can zip from cover to cover and move loot quickly whereas heavy armor users can't run across the street without getting mowed down by the police. While it is possible to play in a setup where you have a ton of armor and shoot from cover, it won't protect you if A) cops focus their fire on you and B) Cloakers can instantly incapacitate you, regardless of your health or armor.
* ''VideoGame/ThisWarOfMine'' has combat ability, backpack size, movement speed, and empathy as primary character stats. Needless to say, empathy is often seen as the DumpStat, since it doesn't take much to improve survivors' morale, or it's more prudent to steal with a lower empathy stat. While these individual stats cannot be modified, it does set a number of characters focused on the OneStatToRuleThemAll (such as Marko and Roman) to be at the top of the tier list while the only one survivor with a high empathy stat, Boris, being immensely useful (while Zlata is average and Cveta is a TierInducedScrappy).
29th Jun '16 5:59:32 PM nombretomado
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* After several years worth of alterations, ''WorldOfWarcraft [[ExpansionPack Cataclysm]]'' arrived at a strict and simple system:

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* After several years worth of alterations, ''WorldOfWarcraft ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft [[ExpansionPack Cataclysm]]'' arrived at a strict and simple system:
28th Jun '16 7:18:20 AM RainingMetal
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Added DiffLines:

* ''VideoGame/ThisWarOfMine'' has combat ability, backpack size, movement speed, and empathy as primary character stats. Needless to say, empathy is often seen as the DumpStat, since it doesn't take much to improve survivors' morale, or it's more prudent to steal with a lower empathy stat. While these individual stats cannot be modified, it does set a number of characters focused on the OneStatToRuleThemAll (such as Marko and Roman) to be at the top of the tier list while the only one survivor with a high empathy stat, Boris, being immensely useful (while Zlata is average and Cveta is a TierInducedScrappy).
25th Jun '16 8:49:41 PM nombretomado
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* The Charisma and Wisdom scores are typically dump stats in ''BaldursGate II''. Unless you're playing as a Cleric, Wisdom is only useful for the Wish spell, and even then you can just get a character with high wisdom to cast it. As for Charisma, you get a ring after completing one of the first quests in the city which boosts your Charisma score to 18 when wearing it.

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* The Charisma and Wisdom scores are typically dump stats in ''BaldursGate II''.''VideoGame/BaldursGateII''. Unless you're playing as a Cleric, Wisdom is only useful for the Wish spell, and even then you can just get a character with high wisdom to cast it. As for Charisma, you get a ring after completing one of the first quests in the city which boosts your Charisma score to 18 when wearing it.
7th Jun '16 12:32:39 PM thatother1dude
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** Despite ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsIII'' having numerous armors and items that increase Poise, raising the stat ''does nothing at all''[[labelnote:*]]Some attacks for certain weapons get [[ImmuneToFlinching (more) Hyper Armor]] when you have Poise, but that applies the same with ''any'' amount above 0, and nearly every armor set (including things like loincloths and cloth gloves) gives at least .1 Poise.[[/labelnote]].

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** Despite ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsIII'' having numerous armors and items that increase Poise, raising the stat ''does ''[[UselessItem does nothing at all''[[labelnote:*]]Some all]]''[[labelnote:*]]Some attacks for certain weapons get [[ImmuneToFlinching (more) Hyper Armor]] when you have Poise, but that applies the same with ''any'' amount above 0, and nearly every armor set (including things like loincloths and cloth gloves) gives at least .1 Poise.[[/labelnote]].
2nd Jun '16 6:03:01 AM supergod
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Another common reason is that a game engine has been copied over from a tabletop game to a digital game verbatim. In games where Charisma only affects conversations, it's really damn hard to make it translate well when your interaction with [=NPCs=] is suddenly governed by cold, unfeeling dialogue trees instead of a reactive and creative game master.

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Another common reason for this is that a game engine has been copied over from a tabletop game to a digital game verbatim. In games where Charisma only affects conversations, it's really damn hard to make it translate well when your interaction with [=NPCs=] is suddenly governed by cold, unfeeling dialogue trees instead of a reactive and creative game master.
2nd Jun '16 5:59:11 AM supergod
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Another common reason is that a game engine has been copied over from a tabletop game to a digital game verbatim; It's really damn hard to make a Charisma stat do anything reasonable when your interaction with [=NPCs=] is suddenly governed by cold, unfeeling dialogue trees instead of a reactive and creative game master.

to:

Another common reason is that a game engine has been copied over from a tabletop game to a digital game verbatim; It's verbatim. In games where Charisma only affects conversations, it's really damn hard to make a Charisma stat do anything reasonable it translate well when your interaction with [=NPCs=] is suddenly governed by cold, unfeeling dialogue trees instead of a reactive and creative game master.
2nd Jun '16 5:54:25 AM supergod
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The phenomenon has many causes. One of these is poor game design; ideally, all of your customization options should have some use beyond "flavor". Another common cause is that a game system is designed to handle multiple facets of gameplay, but the game itself only encompasses a few of those facets. If your party ever went into town to barter instead of trawling the depths of this dark dungeon, maybe your Barter stat would see some use. Another common reason is that a game engine has been copied over from a tabletop game to a digital game verbatim; it's really damn hard to make a Charisma stat do anything reasonable when your interaction with [=NPCs=] is suddenly governed by cold, unfeeling dialogue trees instead of a reactive and creative game master.

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The phenomenon Sometimes, this is deliberate; the game has many causes. One a class system or a limited number points to put into your character, forcing a degree of these specialization. In this case, the dump stat isn't necessarily a ''bad'' stat, but is overshadowed by more suitable ones for a particular build. A warrior wielding a greataxe may find little use in a Dexterity stat, but an archer will rely on it.

Sometimes this is due to
poor game design; ideally, design. Ideally, all of your customization options should have some use beyond "flavor". Another common cause is that a game system is designed to handle multiple facets of gameplay, but the game itself only encompasses a few of those facets. If your party ever went into town to barter instead of trawling the depths of this dark dungeon, maybe your Barter stat would see some use.

Another common reason is that a game engine has been copied over from a tabletop game to a digital game verbatim; it's It's really damn hard to make a Charisma stat do anything reasonable when your interaction with [=NPCs=] is suddenly governed by cold, unfeeling dialogue trees instead of a reactive and creative game master.
master.



Note that in multiplayer games, this trope is not necessarily a bad thing, at least in some forms -- as long as the stat isn't ''always'' a dump stat for everyone. Assuming everything else is balanced, encouraging players to make highly-focused characters [[PlotTailoredToTheParty allows each player's character an area to shine without competition and ensures that nobody feels overshadowed]]. In single-player games, it often doesn't make as much sense, but many such games use it anyway...
2nd Jun '16 5:19:37 AM supergod
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The phenomenon has many causes. The primary cause is poor game design; ideally, all of your customization options should have some use beyond "flavor". Another common cause is that a game system is designed to handle multiple facets of gameplay, but the game itself only encompasses a few of those facets. If your party ever went into town to barter instead of trawling the depths of this dark dungeon, maybe your Barter stat would see some use. Another common reason is that a game engine has been copied over from a tabletop game to a digital game verbatim; it's really damn hard to make a Charisma stat do anything reasonable when your interaction with [=NPCs=] is suddenly governed by cold, unfeeling dialogue trees instead of a reactive and creative game master.

to:

The phenomenon has many causes. The primary cause One of these is poor game design; ideally, all of your customization options should have some use beyond "flavor". Another common cause is that a game system is designed to handle multiple facets of gameplay, but the game itself only encompasses a few of those facets. If your party ever went into town to barter instead of trawling the depths of this dark dungeon, maybe your Barter stat would see some use. Another common reason is that a game engine has been copied over from a tabletop game to a digital game verbatim; it's really damn hard to make a Charisma stat do anything reasonable when your interaction with [=NPCs=] is suddenly governed by cold, unfeeling dialogue trees instead of a reactive and creative game master.
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