History Main / DoUntoOthersBeforeTheyDoUntoUs

19th Sep '17 10:29:54 AM StarTropes
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* PlayedForLaughs on ''Series/TheRedGreenShow'' when Mike Hamar (a career criminal) tries to pass this off as a biblical quote.
--> '''Red:''' I don't remember that in the King James Version. Maybe the ''Jesse'' James Version.
13th Sep '17 2:45:27 PM thatother1dude
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In the ''ComicBook/XMen'' comics, this is one of ComicBook/{{Magneto}}'s main rationales in his war on humanity, and one of the main sticking points in his philosophical differences with [[TheIdealist the more idealistic]] Professor Xavier.
* ''Comicbook/{{Hellblazer'': When John Constantine was hired by a corrupt adviser to the Royal Family to discreetly resolve some demon business, his anarchist friend tried to warn him that they'll betray him [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness as soon as his work is done.]] John is [[GenreSavvy not unaware]] of the possibility, and reassures his friend that he will follow his usual strategy: "Screw them before they screw me."

to:

* In the ''ComicBook/XMen'' comics, this is one of ComicBook/{{Magneto}}'s main rationales in his [[SuperSupremacist war on humanity, and humanity]] is an assumption that humans will inevitably enslave/exterminate/oppress mutants unless mutants do the same to them first (or at least separate themselves from humans). It's one of the main sticking points in his philosophical differences with [[TheIdealist the more idealistic]] Professor Xavier.
* ''Comicbook/{{Hellblazer'': ''Comicbook/{{Hellblazer}}'': When John Constantine was hired by a corrupt adviser to the Royal Family to discreetly resolve some demon business, his anarchist friend tried to warn him that they'll betray him [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness as soon as his work is done.]] John is [[GenreSavvy not unaware]] of the possibility, and reassures his friend that he will follow his usual strategy: "Screw them before they screw me."
12th Sep '17 6:34:22 AM kome360
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* StarshipTroopers: Both sides see the other as a hideous horde of insane vermin, who hate everything their very genes stand for (humans represent arrogance and infighting, bugs represent obedience and gluttony) and will do anything they can to wipe the other side out. Fancy that.



* StarshipTroopers: Both sides see the other as a hideous horde of insane vermin, who hate everything their very genes stand for and will do anything they can to wipe the other side out. Fancy that.
12th Sep '17 6:32:14 AM kome360
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* StarshipTroopers: Both sides see the other as a hideous horde of insane vermin, who hate everything their very genes stand for and will do anything they can to wipe the other side out. Fancy that.
28th Aug '17 6:35:15 AM ChaoticNovelist
Is there an issue? Send a Message


A subtrope of IDidWhatIHadToDo, this is a stock explanation for those operating on the extremely cynical end of the SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism. When such characters have to employ a morally dubious weapon but [[PretextForWar still care about justifying it]], this will almost always be the go-to rationalization. The argument goes that once a weapon has been invented it will inevitably proliferate and be used, and therefore the only sane response is to use it as early and often as possible. Expect to hear it as a paper-thin excuse from GeneralRipper, the WellIntentionedExtremist, or TheSocialDarwinist as they sprint gleefully towards the MoralEventHorizon with the rest of the world in tow. If your ''protagonists'' are using this justification, you probably live in a CrapsackWorld, a world of BlackAndGrayMorality at the least or ProtagonistCenteredMorality at the worst.

to:

A subtrope of IDidWhatIHadToDo, this is a stock explanation for those operating on the extremely cynical end of the SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism. When such characters have to employ a morally dubious weapon but [[PretextForWar still care about justifying it]], this will almost always be the go-to rationalization. The argument goes that once a weapon has been invented it will inevitably proliferate and be used, and therefore the only sane response is to use it as early and often as possible. Expect to hear it as a paper-thin excuse from GeneralRipper, the WellIntentionedExtremist, or TheSocialDarwinist as they sprint gleefully towards the MoralEventHorizon with the rest of the world in tow. If your ''protagonists'' ''heroes'' are using this justification, you probably live in a CrapsackWorld, a world of BlackAndGrayMorality at the least or ProtagonistCenteredMorality at the worst.



* The warring sides of ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED'' use this trope as justification for their deeds; both are led by extremists who aim for nothing less than the complete annihilation of the other side down to the last man, woman and child. Therefore, backing down and depending on MutuallyAssuredDestruction is equivalent to surrender. Things escalate when both sides aquire N-Jammer Canceller technology and a battle ensues where the Federation launches dozens of nukes at ZAFT's civilian population while ZAFT have a nuclear-powered WaveMotionGun pointed at Earth; had the protagonists failed to destroy these [=WMDs=], the result would've been a MutualKill. Fortunately, the extremists are killed during the battle, after which both sides have a HeelRealization and ''[[WarIsHell finally]]'' begin negotiations.
** One has to consider however the fact that both the Federation and ZAFT were being manipulated by [[spoiler:Rau Le Creuset]] who believed the war can only be stopped for good by [[OmnicidalManiac having the two mutually annihilate each other, thus rendering humanity extinct]] and unable to war among themselves just for the sake of being different from each other.

to:

* The warring sides of ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED'' use this trope as justification for their deeds; both are led by extremists who aim for nothing less than the complete annihilation of the other side down to the last man, woman and child. Therefore, backing down and depending on MutuallyAssuredDestruction is equivalent to surrender. Things escalate when both sides aquire N-Jammer Canceller technology and a battle ensues where the Federation launches dozens of nukes at ZAFT's civilian population while ZAFT have a nuclear-powered WaveMotionGun pointed at Earth; had the protagonists [[spoiler: The Three Ships Alliance]] failed to destroy these [=WMDs=], the result would've been a MutualKill. Fortunately, the extremists are killed during the battle, after which both sides have a HeelRealization and ''[[WarIsHell finally]]'' begin negotiations.
** One has to consider however the additional fact that both the Federation and ZAFT were being manipulated by [[spoiler:Rau Le Creuset]] who believed the war can only be stopped for good by [[OmnicidalManiac having the two mutually annihilate each other, thus rendering humanity extinct]] and unable to war among themselves just for the sake of being different from each other.other. In other words, the spoiler character was invoking this trope.



* In the ''ComicBook/XMen'' comics, this is one of ComicBook/{{Magneto}}'s main rationales in his war on humanity, and one of the main sticking points in his philosophical differences with the more idealistic Professor Xavier.
* When [[Comicbook/{{Hellblazer}} John Constantine]] was hired by a corrupt adviser to the Royal Family to discreetly resolve some demon business, his anarchist friend tried to warn him that they'll betray him [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness as soon as his work is done.]] John is [[GenreSavvy not unaware]] of the possibility, and reassures his friend that he will follow his usual strategy: "Screw them before they screw me."

to:

* In the ''ComicBook/XMen'' comics, this is one of ComicBook/{{Magneto}}'s main rationales in his war on humanity, and one of the main sticking points in his philosophical differences with [[TheIdealist the more idealistic idealistic]] Professor Xavier.
* *''Comicbook/{{Hellblazer'': When [[Comicbook/{{Hellblazer}} John Constantine]] Constantine was hired by a corrupt adviser to the Royal Family to discreetly resolve some demon business, his anarchist friend tried to warn him that they'll betray him [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness as soon as his work is done.]] John is [[GenreSavvy not unaware]] of the possibility, and reassures his friend that he will follow his usual strategy: "Screw them before they screw me."



** First two and only uses of Nuclear Bombs in warfare were deployed because of this trope. The United States knew that Japan would fight to the last man, woman, and child to defend the home islands and did not like the prospect of invasion that would have to be done to win the war. Casualties were expected to be some of the costliest in American History. (Fun Fact: About Half a million Purple Hearts, an award given to US military personnel for injuries sustained from enemy combat, were ordered in anticipation. As one historian put it, they were the best war surplus. The United States would not need to place another order for the decoration until 2000! Even then, the original WWII era medals are still given out... we're just getting close to running out of them.). Needless to say, Truman recognized that there would be a lot of American troops killing Japanese civilians and vice versa and he had an advantage that could kill more of them before they killed us.

to:

** First two and only uses of Nuclear Bombs in warfare were deployed because of this trope. The United States knew that Japan would fight to the last man, woman, and child to defend the home islands and did not like the prospect of invasion that would have to be done to win the war. Casualties were expected to be some of the costliest in American History. (Fun Fact: About Half a million Purple Hearts, an award given to US military personnel for injuries sustained from enemy combat, were ordered in anticipation. As one historian put it, they were the best war surplus. The United States would not need to place another order for the decoration until 2000! Even then, the original WWII era medals are still given out... we're the country is just getting close to running out of them.them half a century later.). Needless to say, Truman recognized that there would be a lot of American troops killing Japanese civilians and vice versa and he had an advantage that could kill more of them before they killed us.his own.



* Interestingly, although German propaganda was fairly clear on the point that Judeo-Bolshevik overlordship would be replaced by German rule, no mention was made of the German authorities' genocidal plans for the region's non-Jewish population. [[note]] This is because the basic idea seems to have been to exterminate a quarter of the region's population (c. 30 million) in the short-term and enslave the rest, who would be sterilized and exterminated as needed to make room for settlement by ethnic Germans in the medium-term - the long-term goal of course being to replace the entire population with Aryan-German settlers (though some Fit elements of the more Aryan native ethnicities might not have been sterilized or exterminated) [[/note]] This allowed German military personnel to feel not just that they were waging a defensive war of liberation, but [[{{Irony}} that they were fighting to stop genocide]]:

to:

* ** Interestingly, although German propaganda was fairly clear on the point that Judeo-Bolshevik overlordship would be replaced by German rule, no mention was made of the German authorities' genocidal plans for the region's non-Jewish population. [[note]] This is because the basic idea seems to have been to exterminate a quarter of the region's population (c. 30 million) in the short-term and enslave the rest, who would be sterilized and exterminated as needed to make room for settlement by ethnic Germans in the medium-term - the long-term goal of course being to replace the entire population with Aryan-German settlers (though some Fit elements of the more Aryan native ethnicities might not have been sterilized or exterminated) [[/note]] This allowed German military personnel to feel not just that they were waging a defensive war of liberation, but [[{{Irony}} that they were fighting to stop genocide]]:



* Another interesting point relating to the Conspiracy Theory that papa Stalin was about to invade Germany: when UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust became popular knowledge in the 1960s some of those groups switched to a "Stalin-Bolshevik" model. The last popular scholar to advance the view that the Soviet Union was about to attack Germany was the Soviet defector Victor Suvorov, who in the 1970s used circumstantial evidence hinting at Soviet plans to counter-attack the Germans on the borders of the Soviet Union and drive them back into Germany when the war began as 'proof' that the Soviet Union was going to declare war on Germany. Direct examination of the actual plans in the 1990s revealed the true nature of the planned operation, a defensive counter-offensive. [[note]] The plan was very much a product of its time. It called for fighting the enemy on the Soviet-German border and driving them back into Germany, attacking the Germans at every turn rather than mounting what we (and the Red Army of earlier and later years) would consider a proper defense. At the time of the plan's creation, planning for fighting within Soviet territory and defensive actions in general were politically risky because of their association with military academics purged for 'defeatism'. In the aftermath of the purges ''nobody'' wanted to be the first person to find out if going against the anti-defensive trend was going to get them imprisoned (it wouldn't have, but they didn't know that) [[/note]]

to:

* Another A*nother interesting point relating to the Conspiracy Theory that papa Stalin was about to invade Germany: when UsefulNotes/TheHolocaust became popular knowledge in the 1960s some of those groups switched to a "Stalin-Bolshevik" model. The last popular scholar to advance the view that the Soviet Union was about to attack Germany was the Soviet defector Victor Suvorov, who in the 1970s used circumstantial evidence hinting at Soviet plans to counter-attack the Germans on the borders of the Soviet Union and drive them back into Germany when the war began as 'proof' that the Soviet Union was going to declare war on Germany. Direct examination of the actual plans in the 1990s revealed the true nature of the planned operation, a defensive counter-offensive. [[note]] The plan was very much a product of its time. It called for fighting the enemy on the Soviet-German border and driving them back into Germany, attacking the Germans at every turn rather than mounting what we (and the Red Army of earlier and later years) would consider a proper defense. At the time of the plan's creation, planning for fighting within Soviet territory and defensive actions in general were politically risky because of their association with military academics purged for 'defeatism'. In the aftermath of the purges ''nobody'' wanted to be the first person to find out if going against the anti-defensive trend was going to get them imprisoned (it wouldn't have, but they didn't know that) [[/note]]
18th Jul '17 10:29:27 AM thatother1dude
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The Pluckans [[EarthShatteringKaboom trancklucating their unnamed sister planet]] in ''Film/KinDzaDza'' "so that they don't do that to us". [[ThoseTwoGuys Wef and Bi]], who are from that exact planet, seem to be fine with that, because their people ''did'' plan to do the same for the sole reason of "because fuck you", and they are being good sports to the winners:
-->'''Gedevan''': "Why did they do it?"
-->'''Wef''': "So that we don't do it to them first."
-->'''Gedevan''': "And why would you do that?"
-->'''Wef''': "So that they don't hang over our heads."

to:

* The Pluckans [[EarthShatteringKaboom trancklucating their unnamed sister planet]] in ''Film/KinDzaDza'' "so that they don't do that to us". [[ThoseTwoGuys Wef and Bi]], who are from that exact planet, seem to be fine with that, because their people ''did'' ''[[TheExtremistWasRight did]]'' plan to do the same for the sole reason of "because fuck you", and they are being good sports to the winners:
-->'''Gedevan''': "Why Why did they do it?"
-->'''Wef''': "So
it?\\
'''Wef''': So
that we don't do it to them first."
-->'''Gedevan''': "And
\\
'''Gedevan''': And
why would you do that?"
-->'''Wef''': "So
that?\\
'''Wef''': So
that they don't hang over our heads."
15th Jul '17 6:54:56 PM DukeofFinland
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* Second and Third UsefulNotes/PunicWars were largely the result of both Carthaginians and Romans fearing a future invasion from one another. The second one was started when it became clear to Carthage that Romans weren't going to tolerate their territorial expansions in Iberia for any longer. The third one on the other hand started when what little remained of Carthage after the devastation of the second war was getting back on its legs. Romans started to fear that they might become a threat once again and decided to [[FinalSolution annihilate the entire Carthaginian population]].
15th Jul '17 6:27:01 PM DukeofFinland
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* It was [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler Hitler's]] favourite excuse for invading countries. UrExample was the Soviet Union. Some anti-communists, Poles, ''Wehrmacht'' fanboys, and German nationalists ''still, to this day,'' follow the official line of Nazi Germany: that the Jewish puppetmasters controlling the Soviet Union were going to make it invade Germany and then exterminate all European people (because the superior intellect and morality inherent to European races made them the only ones capable of resisting Jewish manipulation). DoUntoOthersBeforeTheyDoUntoUs [[GuiltFreeExterminationWar was invoked to morally justify]] the war.

to:

* It was [[UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler Hitler's]] favourite excuse for invading countries. UrExample was the Soviet Union.Union also loved using this excuse. Some anti-communists, Poles, ''Wehrmacht'' fanboys, and German nationalists ''still, to this day,'' follow the official line of Nazi Germany: that the Jewish puppetmasters controlling the Soviet Union were going to make it invade Germany and then exterminate all European people (because the superior intellect and morality inherent to European races made them the only ones capable of resisting Jewish manipulation). DoUntoOthersBeforeTheyDoUntoUs [[GuiltFreeExterminationWar was invoked to morally justify]] the war.
8th May '17 6:45:34 AM case
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[folder:{{UsefulNotes/Television}}]]
* ''Series/{{Dollhouse}}'': Used when Rossum's founder makes a last ditch effort to convince his "family" that he needs to [[MassHypnosis mind control the world]]. Adelle [=DeWitt=], not above morally dubious actions herself, calls him "[[YoureInsane spectacularly insane]]".
* In ''Series/{{Firefly}}'', one of Jayne's lines includes the phrase "I'll kill a man in a fair fight...or if I think he's going to ''start'' a fair fight," though he then goes on to list a few other possible reasons.
* Max on ''Series/LivingSingle''.
--> "It's not revenge; it's prevenge. Getting to them before they get to you."
* This was Season 3 of ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' in a nutshell, until the humans found out both sides were being played by the [[LetsYouAndHimFight Sphere-Builders.]]
* An episode of ''{{Series/Bonanza}}'' had a family of squatters led by a matriarch who claimed no one would give them a fair deal, saying there were two laws, one to protect everyone else and their law which was essentially "An Eye For An Eye." Their conflict with the Cartwrights starts when one of the boys kills one of her sons in self defense after he tried to shoot him in the back, ''twice'', when the Cartwright tried to stop him from setting a clearing fire that would have burned an entire populated valley. Despite their stance of avenging slights the family acts in a way that actually causes confrontations, like squatting on other's land and breaking out rifles every time they meet someone. The matriarch's attitude has caused her sons to act violently when opposed and made it a SelfFulfillingProphecy, though most of her children don't agree with her position. In the end, [[spoiler: her surviving children refuse to go to war with the Cartwrights and she decides to make peace with the family, ending the feud on a positive note as she accepts Ben's offer to help her family settle in a new home]].
* In episode 7 of ''{{Series/Survivor}}'': Blood vs. Water, [[spoiler: Tina reveals to Monica that Kat wants Monica to be voted out, which would clearly break the Galang women's alliance. Monica has a grim realization:]]
--> [[spoiler: '''Monica''': I teach my kids "[[TheGoldenRule do unto others as you would want them to do unto you]]"... but you know what? In ''{{Series/Survivor}}'', I figured it out: it's "do unto others ''before'' they do unto you".]]
* In Series/HillStreetBlues, Sgt. Yablonsky would dismiss the police day watch with the above phrase almost exactly. "Let's do it to them before they do it to us." If it wasn't for Captain Furillo riding herd on Lt. Hunter and keeping him from starting World War III at every chance, the entire police force would have become what Joyce Davenport sardonically referred to the police as: a Nazi occupation force.
[[/folder]]


Added DiffLines:

[[folder:Live-Action TV]]
* ''Series/{{Dollhouse}}'': Used when Rossum's founder makes a last ditch effort to convince his "family" that he needs to [[MassHypnosis mind control the world]]. Adelle [=DeWitt=], not above morally dubious actions herself, calls him "[[YoureInsane spectacularly insane]]".
* In ''Series/{{Firefly}}'', one of Jayne's lines includes the phrase "I'll kill a man in a fair fight...or if I think he's going to ''start'' a fair fight," though he then goes on to list a few other possible reasons.
* Max on ''Series/LivingSingle''.
--> "It's not revenge; it's prevenge. Getting to them before they get to you."
* This was Season 3 of ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'' in a nutshell, until the humans found out both sides were being played by the [[LetsYouAndHimFight Sphere-Builders.]]
* An episode of ''{{Series/Bonanza}}'' had a family of squatters led by a matriarch who claimed no one would give them a fair deal, saying there were two laws, one to protect everyone else and their law which was essentially "An Eye For An Eye." Their conflict with the Cartwrights starts when one of the boys kills one of her sons in self defense after he tried to shoot him in the back, ''twice'', when the Cartwright tried to stop him from setting a clearing fire that would have burned an entire populated valley. Despite their stance of avenging slights the family acts in a way that actually causes confrontations, like squatting on other's land and breaking out rifles every time they meet someone. The matriarch's attitude has caused her sons to act violently when opposed and made it a SelfFulfillingProphecy, though most of her children don't agree with her position. In the end, [[spoiler: her surviving children refuse to go to war with the Cartwrights and she decides to make peace with the family, ending the feud on a positive note as she accepts Ben's offer to help her family settle in a new home]].
* In episode 7 of ''{{Series/Survivor}}'': Blood vs. Water, [[spoiler: Tina reveals to Monica that Kat wants Monica to be voted out, which would clearly break the Galang women's alliance. Monica has a grim realization:]]
--> [[spoiler: '''Monica''': I teach my kids "[[TheGoldenRule do unto others as you would want them to do unto you]]"... but you know what? In ''{{Series/Survivor}}'', I figured it out: it's "do unto others ''before'' they do unto you".]]
* In Series/HillStreetBlues, Sgt. Yablonsky would dismiss the police day watch with the above phrase almost exactly. "Let's do it to them before they do it to us." If it wasn't for Captain Furillo riding herd on Lt. Hunter and keeping him from starting World War III at every chance, the entire police force would have become what Joyce Davenport sardonically referred to the police as: a Nazi occupation force.
[[/folder]]
5th May '17 1:02:05 PM case
Is there an issue? Send a Message


[[AC:{{Anime}}]]

to:

[[AC:{{Anime}}]][[foldercontrol]]

[[folder:Anime]]




[[AC:ComicBooks]]

to:

\n[[AC:ComicBooks]][[/folder]]

[[folder:ComicBooks]]




[[AC:{{Fanfiction}}]]

to:

\n[[AC:{{Fanfiction}}]][[/folder]]

[[folder:{{Fanfiction}}]]




[[AC:{{Film}}]]

to:

\n[[AC:{{Film}}]][[/folder]]

[[folder:{{Film}}]]




[[AC:{{UsefulNotes/Television}}]]

to:

\n[[AC:{{UsefulNotes/Television}}]][[/folder]]

[[folder:{{UsefulNotes/Television}}]]




[[AC:{{Literature}}]]

to:

\n[[AC:{{Literature}}]][[/folder]]

[[folder:{{Literature}}]]




[[AC:VideoGames]]

to:

\n[[AC:VideoGames]][[/folder]]

[[folder:VideoGames]]




[[AC:VisualNovel]]

to:

\n[[AC:VisualNovel]][[/folder]]

[[folder:VisualNovel]]




[[AC:Western Animation]]

to:

\n[[AC:Western [[/folder]]

[[folder:Western
Animation]]




[[AC:{{Real Life}}]]

to:

\n[[AC:{{Real [[/folder]]

[[folder:{{Real
Life}}]]




to:

[[/folder]]
This list shows the last 10 events of 119. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.DoUntoOthersBeforeTheyDoUntoUs