15 Hours Left to Support a Troper-Created Project : Personal Space (discuss)

History Main / DiminishingReturnsForBalance

9th May '16 12:03:23 AM NeoChaos
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* In contrast to ''[=TF2=]'', ''VideoGame/{{Overwatch}}'' actually accounts for this at the hero selection screen - it will warn a player when their team is has too many of a class (especially snipers) and point out roles that may be lacking (such as a support character). Since it's a push-based game like Team Fortress 2, this can be valuable information for a player who wants to help turn the tide of battle for their team.
11th Mar '16 1:06:43 AM FurryKef
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The second problem is it doesn't always solve the problem of min-maxing. There are usually at a handful of stats that are the most useful in any game, it's just that one of them tends to be more useful then the others. Diminishing returns encourages players to dump points into the "best" stat or stats until the penalty is hit, then dump more into the second best. If the system is not well balanced regarding stats in the first place, the net effect is that instead of focusing excessively on one, players will focus excessively on a small handful.

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The second problem is it doesn't always solve the problem of min-maxing. There are usually at a handful of stats that are the most useful in any game, it's just that one of them tends to be more useful then than the others. Diminishing returns encourages players to dump points into the "best" stat or stats until the penalty is hit, then dump more into the second best. If the system is not well balanced regarding stats in the first place, the net effect is that instead of focusing excessively on one, players will focus excessively on a small handful.
21st Jan '16 6:17:55 PM GrammarNavi
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* In the SuperSmashBros series, each game has a mechanic known as [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Stale_move_negation "stale-move negation"]], that causes an attack to become weaker the more frequently it is successfully used (as in, it hits an opposing hitbox). In Melee, it wasn't much of a factor, as while it caused attacks to deal reduced damage, it didn't affect the knockback they dealt (thus your finishers will still KO at nearly the same percent they would fresh regardless of how often you used them). In Brawl, it's much more severe, with knockback now being affected; the knockback power of a move will decrease rapidly with each successive use (for example, a move that could KO around 100% fresh will not even KO at 300% if fully decayed). With the freshness bonus also being introduced (a mechanic that boosts the power of a fresh move by 5%), there's a large disparity between the knockback power of a fresh move and a move that has been frequently used, making the strategy of not using your primary KO move(s) until your opponent is at KO percent actually viable (rather than just being an ideal tactic). It's a double-edged sword though; while this rewards players who plan appropriate use of their KO moves and punishes those who used them haphazardly, it causes a few moves to be overly powerful at comboing into themselves, which then causes the characters with such moves to be very hard counters to those that are especially vulnerable to them (Pikachu's down throw is the most infamous example, being a chain throw that causes massive damage, if not directly leading to an outright [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Zero-to-death_combo zero-death]], on several characters because of this).

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* In the SuperSmashBros VideoGame/SuperSmashBros series, each game has a mechanic known as [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Stale_move_negation "stale-move negation"]], that causes an attack to become weaker the more frequently it is successfully used (as in, it hits an opposing hitbox). In Melee, it wasn't much of a factor, as while it caused attacks to deal reduced damage, it didn't affect the knockback they dealt (thus your finishers will still KO at nearly the same percent they would fresh regardless of how often you used them). In Brawl, it's much more severe, with knockback now being affected; the knockback power of a move will decrease rapidly with each successive use (for example, a move that could KO around 100% fresh will not even KO at 300% if fully decayed). With the freshness bonus also being introduced (a mechanic that boosts the power of a fresh move by 5%), there's a large disparity between the knockback power of a fresh move and a move that has been frequently used, making the strategy of not using your primary KO move(s) until your opponent is at KO percent actually viable (rather than just being an ideal tactic). It's a double-edged sword though; while this rewards players who plan appropriate use of their KO moves and punishes those who used them haphazardly, it causes a few moves to be overly powerful at comboing into themselves, which then causes the characters with such moves to be very hard counters to those that are especially vulnerable to them (Pikachu's down throw is the most infamous example, being a chain throw that causes massive damage, if not directly leading to an outright [[http://www.ssbwiki.com/Zero-to-death_combo zero-death]], on several characters because of this).
8th Jan '16 10:31:45 PM LucaEarlgrey
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* This phenomenon is called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottleneck bottleneck]]. It's especially visible in computer setups: if you have an awesome CPU and lots of RAM but a piddly video card, games won't run very well. Conversely, if you have an awesome video card but a weak CPU and little RAM, your games [[MortonsFork still won't run very well]]. Basically, imagine you have a pipe with a specific diameter/radius (RAM) and a specific rate at which water flows (CPU).

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* This phenomenon is called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottleneck bottleneck]]. It's especially visible in computer setups: if you have an awesome CPU and lots of RAM but a piddly video card, games won't run very well. Conversely, if you have an awesome video card but a weak CPU and little RAM, your games [[MortonsFork still won't run very well]]. Basically, imagine you have a pipe with a specific diameter/radius (RAM) and a specific rate at which water flows (CPU).
8th Jan '16 10:31:17 PM LucaEarlgrey
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* This phenomenon is called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottleneck bottleneck]]. It's especially visible in computer setups: if you have an awesome CPU and lots of RAM but a piddly video card, games won't run very well. Conversely, if you have an awesome video card but a weak CPU and little RAM, your games [[MortonsFork still won't run very well]].

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* This phenomenon is called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottleneck bottleneck]]. It's especially visible in computer setups: if you have an awesome CPU and lots of RAM but a piddly video card, games won't run very well. Conversely, if you have an awesome video card but a weak CPU and little RAM, your games [[MortonsFork still won't run very well]]. Basically, imagine you have a pipe with a specific diameter/radius (RAM) and a specific rate at which water flows (CPU).
16th Dec '15 5:13:52 PM nombretomado
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* ''LeagueOfLegends'' uses hard and soft caps for some stats. Attack Speed and Cooldown Reduction hardcap at 2.5 attacks per second and 40% reduction, respectively, with no diminishing returns. Movement Speed has no hard cap, but two "soft caps" make it hard to increase past a certain point-raising your movement speed past one soft cap causes increases to have their effectiveness cut, and going past the second causes a steeper cut.

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* ''LeagueOfLegends'' ''VideoGame/LeagueOfLegends'' uses hard and soft caps for some stats. Attack Speed and Cooldown Reduction hardcap at 2.5 attacks per second and 40% reduction, respectively, with no diminishing returns. Movement Speed has no hard cap, but two "soft caps" make it hard to increase past a certain point-raising your movement speed past one soft cap causes increases to have their effectiveness cut, and going past the second causes a steeper cut.
10th Sep '15 7:30:31 PM azul120
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* This phenomenon is called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottleneck bottleneck]]. It's especially visible in computer setups: if you have an awesome CPU and lots of RAM but a piddly video card, games won't run very well. Conversely, if you have an awesome video card but a weak CPU and little RAM, your games [[MortonsFork still won't run very well.]]

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* This phenomenon is called the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottleneck bottleneck]]. It's especially visible in computer setups: if you have an awesome CPU and lots of RAM but a piddly video card, games won't run very well. Conversely, if you have an awesome video card but a weak CPU and little RAM, your games [[MortonsFork still won't run very well.]]well]].



27th Jul '15 1:28:59 PM Tuckerscreator
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* Many classes in ''{{Team Fortress 2}}'' become less effective when there are more of them. This is especially obvious with Spies and Snipers, as they are precision-elimination classes and have the least pushing capability in a push-based game. Not that this'll stop you from having eight per team, of course. The Soldier is probably the only exception; being the JackOfAllStats, a team of Soldiers is quite feasible at low levels of play.

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* Many classes in ''{{Team Fortress 2}}'' ''VideoGame/TeamFortress2'' become less effective when there are more of them. This is especially obvious with Spies and Snipers, as they are precision-elimination classes and have the least pushing capability in a push-based game. Not that this'll stop you from having eight per team, of course. The Soldier is probably the only exception; being the JackOfAllStats, a team of Soldiers is quite feasible at low levels of play.
25th Jul '15 9:00:24 PM nombretomado
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* The ''MightAndMagic'' games had an interesting take on this trope, where the stat system only offered bonuses at certain intervals, which progressively decreased in frequency as the number got higher. You received bonuses to relevant skills, for example, at 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 25, 30, 35, 40, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, etc., until finally stopping offering bonuses past 500. So, a stat of 15 and 16, for example, was functionally the same. This tended to make raising most stats higher than around 50 or so rather pointless, and rendered most minor stat gains worthless well before that.

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* The ''MightAndMagic'' ''VideoGame/MightAndMagic'' games had an interesting take on this trope, where the stat system only offered bonuses at certain intervals, which progressively decreased in frequency as the number got higher. You received bonuses to relevant skills, for example, at 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 25, 30, 35, 40, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, etc., until finally stopping offering bonuses past 500. So, a stat of 15 and 16, for example, was functionally the same. This tended to make raising most stats higher than around 50 or so rather pointless, and rendered most minor stat gains worthless well before that.
25th Jun '15 6:34:32 AM JapaneseTeeth
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[[folder: ThirdPersonShooter]]
* ''VideoGame/{{Splatoon}}'' has this manifest in several ways:
** Having multiple copies of the same ability on year isn't very helpful, because every duplicate ability will provide less of a boost. For example, having one "Ink Saver" ability gives you a decent boost, adding as second one gives you a much smaller boost, and adding a third is mostly pointless because the boost is so small as to be negligible.
** Certain weapons can be very effective on their own, but become a liability if the entire team is using them. For example, having a roller on your team is good because it can ink a lot of ground quickly and splat any enemy it runs over. Having a team of ''nothing but rollers'' is an uphill battle, because rollers have very little range and very poor vertical mobility. Likewise, having a charger on your team is good because they can splat enemies and provide support from a distance. Having a team full of chargers makes it very difficult to cover ground or combat any enemy that gets close.
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