History Main / DiminishingReturnsForBalance

12th Jan '18 7:48:07 AM thatother1dude
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** In ''VideoGame/Fallout1'', ''VideoGame/Fallout2'', and ''VideoGame/{{Fallout Tactics|BrotherhoodOfSteel}}'' to 100 is done on a 1-for-1 skill point basis. Raising it to 101 costs 2 skills points per rank. This quickly accelerates so that, by the time the skill is close to its cap at 300, it costs as many as 6 points per rank. Raising skills so high has its benefits, especially in ''Fallout 2'', where certain very high skills (such as Science and Speech) unlock special gear, quest solutions, and even party members, if you're willing to specialize. Being able to blow someone's head off with a sniper rifle from across the map doesn't hurt, either, and you'll need a Small Guns above 200 to do it.
** Your damage taken in ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' is divided by approximately the ''cubic root'' of your Damage Resistance. This makes the early points very valuable (after clearing the threshold to do anything, about ~1/7 of attacks' damage, which generally very easy to achieve), but subsequent points much less so--taking half as much damage requires getting about '''seven times''' as much DR. Consequently, while early game DR tends to be in the tens, PoweredArmor has to raise your DR to over a ''thousand'' to produce a noticeable effect.

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** In ''VideoGame/Fallout1'', ''VideoGame/Fallout2'', and ''VideoGame/{{Fallout Tactics|BrotherhoodOfSteel}}'' Tactics|BrotherhoodOfSteel}}'', leveling skills to 100 is done on a 1-for-1 skill point basis. Raising it to 101 costs 2 skills points per rank. This quickly accelerates so that, by the time the skill is close to its cap at 300, it costs as many as 6 points per rank. Raising skills so high has its benefits, especially in ''Fallout 2'', where certain very high skills (such as Science and Speech) unlock special gear, quest solutions, and even party members, if you're willing to specialize. Being able to blow someone's head off with a sniper rifle from across the map doesn't hurt, either, and you'll need a Small Guns above 200 to do it.
** Your damage taken in ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' is divided by approximately the ''cubic root'' of your Damage Resistance. This makes the early points very valuable (after clearing the threshold to do anything, about ~1/7 of attacks' damage, which damage; generally very easy to achieve), but subsequent points much less so--taking half as much damage requires getting about '''seven times''' as much DR. Consequently, while early game DR tends to be in the tens, PoweredArmor has to raise your DR to over a ''thousand'' to produce a noticeable effect.
29th Dec '17 5:16:26 PM MegaMarioMan
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* ''VideoGame/CityOfHeroes'' originally let you add as many of a type of 'Enhancements' to a power as you liked, leading to builds that were far and away so much better than anything else that there was no reason to use any different kind of enhancement build. This led, eventually, to The Great Diversification, when DiminishingReturnsForBalance was instituted, making every enhancement of the same kind give less return. The returns diminished so harshly that anything over three of a kind was useless. The net effect was to make the game overall more difficult and to weaken linear, straightforward powers that only benefit from one type of enhancement. Certain powers and builds became useless overnight.

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* ''VideoGame/CityOfHeroes'' originally let you add as many of a type of 'Enhancements' to a power as you liked, leading to builds that were far and away so much better than anything else that there was no reason to use any different kind of enhancement build. This led, eventually, to The Great Diversification, when DiminishingReturnsForBalance this was instituted, making every enhancement of the same kind give less return. The returns diminished so harshly that anything over three of a kind was useless. The net effect was to make the game overall more difficult and to weaken linear, straightforward powers that only benefit from one type of enhancement. Certain powers and builds became useless overnight.


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* In ''VideoGame/TeamKirbyClashDeluxe'', Beam Mages can stop time if they can hit the enemy with enough Time Beams. However, the more times your team stops time during a battle, the more Time Beams it'll take for the next time stop to trigger.
25th Dec '17 4:03:49 PM LucaEarlgrey
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25th Dec '17 4:03:37 PM LucaEarlgrey
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[[folder:Turn-Based Strategy]]
* Upgrading a skill's power in ''VideoGame/{{Disgaea}}'' obviously makes it more effective, but the SP cost will increase several-fold. It's possible to have a character build up up a ton of Mana, spend it all on one skill to give it a significant boost, only to find that it will cost more SP than they can hold! Fortunately, these upgrades can be reversed, but you won't get the used Mana back.
20th Dec '17 10:09:12 AM BeerBaron
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* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind'' is a treasure trove of this trope:
** The most direct example is the patentable method ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' has used for leveling for a long time - you are awarded experience for misses and critical failures as opposed to successes. Your level is proportionately related to your ability to use a skill successfully, hence you will be able to learn something you have no skill in quickly, but master something you have a lot of skill in only through devoted use (since you will stop failing as often). There are only a few exceptions, such as some implementations of magic.
** Alchemy, meanwhile, is [[GameBreaker broken beyond all belief]] and is the perfect example of what can happen when this trope is not enforced. Not only can mass herb mixing give you lots of Alchemy skill (snowball effect), it will also give your base stats lots of free level-up points AND eventually absurdly powerful and expensive potions as your skill increases. Lots of money, lots of experience, powerful stackable buffs, all while doing very little. Additionally, this leads to the legendary [[TheSingularity Fortify Intelligence Stacking trick]] and can ultimately result in a situation where the game crashes from mathematical overflow.
** When you buy from trainers, it costs increasing value for each level. (The actual increase in price, however, is typically considered trivial compared to one's ability to make money.)
** In what could be a direct call-out to the introduction to this trope, the Merchant skill is broken at 50. Up to 50, the price decrease of all merchants' goods makes sense as a better level should indicate you are better at buying and selling. After 50, things start getting more expensive again. Many mods have attempted to correct this issue.

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* ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind'' is a treasure trove of this trope:
''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''
** The most direct example is the patentable method ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' series in general has used for leveling for a long employed this trope. You increase your skills through successful use of said skills. Each time - you are awarded experience for misses and critical failures as opposed to successes. Your level is proportionately related to your ability to use a skill is used successfully, hence you the skill's progression will be able to learn something raise a percentage. (For example, if you have no strike enemies with a long sword, your Blade/Long Blade/One-Handed skill in quickly, but master something you have a lot of will increase.) Once that progression reaches 100%, the skill in only through devoted use (since you will stop failing increase one point. Once you gain ten skill increases, you go up one CharacterLevel. However, the higher said skills get, the long it takes to progress them. Essentially, it is very quick and easy to go from a total novice to adept in a particular skill, but is much harder and takes much longer to go from that point to maxing out the skill. Additionally, skill trainers charge exponentially more gold to train you at the very highest levels. (Though will all of the series' MoneyForNothing, this can be considered trivial.) This is why it is advisable to save [[RareCandy skill books]], which raise a certain related skill by one when read, until the skill is at a very high skill level. (Open your inventory and place them directly to save them for later, as often). There are only a few exceptions, such as some implementations of magic.
picking them up directly will automatically open them for you to read.)
** ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'':
***
Alchemy, meanwhile, is [[GameBreaker broken beyond all belief]] and is the perfect example of what can happen when this trope is not enforced. Not only can mass herb mixing give you lots of Alchemy skill (snowball effect), it will also give your base stats lots of free level-up points AND eventually absurdly powerful and expensive potions as your skill increases. Lots of money, lots of experience, powerful stackable buffs, all while doing very little. Additionally, this leads to the legendary [[TheSingularity Fortify Intelligence Stacking trick]] and can ultimately result in a situation where the game crashes from mathematical overflow.
** When you buy from trainers, it costs increasing value for each level. (The actual increase in price, however, is typically considered trivial compared to one's ability to make money.)
** In what could be a direct call-out to
overflow. Later games ''heavily'' {{Nerf}} the introduction Alchemy skill in order to this trope, prevent this, though they include workaround using other skills.
*** Due to a bug,
the Merchant Mercantile skill is broken at 50. Up to 50, the price decrease of all merchants' goods makes sense sense, as a better high skill level should indicate indicates that you are better at buying and selling. After 50, things start getting more ''more'' expensive once again. Many mods have attempted Thankfully, many {{Game Mod}}s exist as unofficial patches to correct this issue.



* ''[[TabletopGame/ProseDescriptiveQualities Swashbucklers of the 7 Skies]]'' employs similar ability improvement to the aforementioned ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' video game series: you only gain points to improve your abilities when you ''fail''. Characters who max out an ability and then focus exclusively on it are going to advance very slowly, if at all, while those who dabble in many things or throw themselves into scenarios where they've got no real skill are going to develop faster.

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* ''[[TabletopGame/ProseDescriptiveQualities Swashbucklers of the 7 Skies]]'' employs similar ability improvement to the aforementioned ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' video game series: Skies]]'': you only gain points to improve your abilities when you ''fail''. Characters who max out an ability and then focus exclusively on it are going to advance very slowly, if at all, while those who dabble in many things or throw themselves into scenarios where they've got no real skill are going to develop faster.
31st Oct '17 1:43:39 PM morenohijazo
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* ''[[VideoGame/{{Diablo}} Diablo II]]'' uses this for many skill bonuses, such as Dodge giving you an 18% chance to dodge with the first point, but quickly tapering down to less than 1% bonus per point by level 20. This type of balance wound up turning many skills into "one point wonders." Just put a single point in the skill, and the "x all skills" bonuses on your equipment end up giving you just as much of a bonus as actually maxing the skill would have in the first place.

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* ''[[VideoGame/{{Diablo}} Diablo II]]'' ''VideoGame/DiabloII'' uses this for many skill bonuses, such as Dodge giving you an 18% chance to dodge with the first point, but quickly tapering down to less than 1% bonus per point by level 20. This type of balance wound up turning many skills into "one point wonders." Just put a single point in the skill, and the "x "+x all skills" bonuses on your equipment end up giving you just as much of a bonus as actually maxing the skill would have in the first place.
20th Oct '17 2:19:13 AM FRizer
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* A lot of fighting games use this to keep combos under control, causing each hit of the same type to cause less damage than the last until a certain amount of time has passed.
** Some games will cause the first hit after an arbitrary number to automatically whiff even if the enemy is still well within its hit box, giving the opponent enough time to recover and counter.

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* A lot of fighting games use this to keep combos under control, causing each hit the damage of the same type attacks to cause less decrease by increasing percentage the further the combo goes; it's called "damage scaling". For example, a LimitBreak move used standalone will do more damage than if it's used at the last until a certain amount end of time has passed.
a combo.
** Some games will cause the first hit after an arbitrary number to automatically whiff whiff/miss even if the enemy is still well within its hit box, giving the opponent enough time to recover and counter.counter. Some other games will make the attack cause less hitstun (i.e time where the opponent is helpless after getting attacked and open for another attack) the further in a combo it gets used, called "hitstun scaling".
22nd Sep '17 12:43:17 PM Morgenthaler
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* ''VideoGame/RiseOfNations'' and its spinoff ''RiseOfLegends'' (no relation) increases the price of a given unit as their population increases, to make it more expensive to mass single unit types.

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* ''VideoGame/RiseOfNations'' and its spinoff ''RiseOfLegends'' ''VideoGame/RiseOfLegends'' (no relation) increases the price of a given unit as their population increases, to make it more expensive to mass single unit types.
20th Sep '17 6:56:10 PM thatother1dude
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* In contrast to ''[=TF2=]'', ''VideoGame/{{Overwatch}}'' actually accounts for this at the hero selection screen - it will warn a player when their team is has too many of a class (especially snipers) and point out roles that may be lacking (such as a healing character). Since it's a push-based game like Team Fortress 2, this can be valuable information for a player who wants to help turn the tide of battle for their team.

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* In contrast to ''[=TF2=]'', ''VideoGame/{{Overwatch}}'' actually accounts for this at the hero selection screen - it will warn a player when their team is has too many of a class or role (especially snipers) and point out roles that may be lacking (such as a healing character). Since it's also a push-based game like Team Fortress 2, game, this can be valuable information for a player who wants to help turn the tide of battle for their team.team. Eventually, the game was patched to flat-out prevented you from taking a hero someone else on your team is playing already, even in casual matches.
20th Sep '17 6:52:06 PM thatother1dude
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* ''VideoGame/{{Fallout|1}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 2}}'', and ''VideoGame/{{Fallout Tactics|BrotherhoodOfSteel}}'' do this with skill points. Raising a skill to 100 is done on a 1-for-1 basis. Raising it to 101 costs 2 skills points per rank. This quickly accelerates so that, by the time the skill is close to its cap at 300, it costs as many as 6 points per rank. Raising skills so high has its benefits, especially in ''Fallout 2'', where certain very high skills (such as Science and Speech) unlock special gear, quest solutions, and even party members, if you're willing to specialize. Being able to blow someone's head off with a sniper rifle from across the map doesn't hurt, either, and you'll need a Small Guns above 200 to do it.
* ''VideoGame/Fallout4'': Your damage taken is divided by approximately the ''cubic root'' of your Damage Resistance. This makes the early points very valuable (after clearing the threshold to do anything, about ~1/8 of attacks' damage, which is usually what happens), but subsequent points much less so--taking half as much damage requires getting about '''seven times''' as much DR. Consequently, while early game DR tends to be in the tens, PoweredArmor has to raise your DR to over a ''thousand'' to produce a noticeable effect.

to:

* ''VideoGame/{{Fallout|1}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 2}}'', ''VideoGame/{{Fallout}}'':
** In ''VideoGame/Fallout1'', ''VideoGame/Fallout2'',
and ''VideoGame/{{Fallout Tactics|BrotherhoodOfSteel}}'' do this with skill points. Raising a skill to 100 is done on a 1-for-1 skill point basis. Raising it to 101 costs 2 skills points per rank. This quickly accelerates so that, by the time the skill is close to its cap at 300, it costs as many as 6 points per rank. Raising skills so high has its benefits, especially in ''Fallout 2'', where certain very high skills (such as Science and Speech) unlock special gear, quest solutions, and even party members, if you're willing to specialize. Being able to blow someone's head off with a sniper rifle from across the map doesn't hurt, either, and you'll need a Small Guns above 200 to do it.
* ''VideoGame/Fallout4'': ** Your damage taken in ''VideoGame/Fallout4'' is divided by approximately the ''cubic root'' of your Damage Resistance. This makes the early points very valuable (after clearing the threshold to do anything, about ~1/8 ~1/7 of attacks' damage, which is usually what happens), generally very easy to achieve), but subsequent points much less so--taking half as much damage requires getting about '''seven times''' as much DR. Consequently, while early game DR tends to be in the tens, PoweredArmor has to raise your DR to over a ''thousand'' to produce a noticeable effect.
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