History Main / DevilButNoGod

11th Jul '16 9:31:03 AM DastardlyDemolition
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*** Also in ''Morrowind'', the theory is floated that Tamriel isn't just Lorkhan's realm: it's [[UsefulNotes/{{Pantheism}} Lorkhan's substance]], his own body. He died making it, and now he is one with the land everyone lives on. This might explain why his still-beating heart is stuck under a mountain. So, there's a DevilButNoGod because GodIsDead. On the upside, [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything God died so that we might live.]]

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*** Also in ''Morrowind'', the theory is floated that Tamriel Mundus (specifically the moons Masser and Secunda) isn't just Lorkhan's realm: it's [[UsefulNotes/{{Pantheism}} Lorkhan's substance]], his own body. He died making it, and now he is one with the land everyone lives on. This might explain why his still-beating heart is stuck under a mountain. So, there's a DevilButNoGod because GodIsDead. On the upside, [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything God died so that we might live.]]



* In ''VideoGame/DwarfFortress'', civilisations worship various gods, with temples being built in their honor and, very rarely, holy wars in their name. For all that, the gods mostly curse people who profane them[[note]]a Death God might also teach necromancers immortality[[/note]] - and then [[GodsNeedPrayerBadly only if they're widely worshipped]]. Demons are actively involved in the world, taking over human and goblin civilizations [[GodGuise by posing as the aforementioned gods]] and [[AsskickingEqualsAuthority beating their way to the top]], respectively. [[spoiler:More show up if you've DugTooDeep. ''[[ZergRush Lots]]'' more.]] A strong Dwarven fortress is quite capable of [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu demonstrating the mortality]] of these Demons. Gods they very clearly ain't.
* While it's unsure if the Maker in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'' exists, there is no Devil or god of evil, only personifications of character traits. A rage demon the PC fights with the help of a [[ChurchMilitant templar]] laughs at the templar's declarations of faith, taunting him that the god he worships and the heaven he hopes for simply don't exist, but that there are demons. He then attacks the party. (There is never any solid indication that the god the templars worship really exists. Their church was started by a prophet who was said to have divine powers, but there is a competing theory that she was simply an incredibly powerful mage.)

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* In ''VideoGame/DwarfFortress'', civilisations civilizations worship various gods, with temples being built in their honor and, very rarely, holy wars in their name. For all that, the gods mostly curse people who profane them[[note]]a Death God might also teach necromancers immortality[[/note]] - and then [[GodsNeedPrayerBadly only if they're widely worshipped]].worshiped]]. Demons are actively involved in the world, taking over human and goblin civilizations [[GodGuise by posing as the aforementioned gods]] and [[AsskickingEqualsAuthority beating their way to the top]], respectively. [[spoiler:More show up if you've DugTooDeep. ''[[ZergRush Lots]]'' more.]] A strong Dwarven fortress is quite capable of [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu demonstrating the mortality]] of these Demons. Gods they very clearly ain't.
* While it's unsure if the Maker in ''VideoGame/DragonAgeOrigins'' exists, there is no Devil or god of evil, only personifications of character traits. A rage demon the PC fights with the help of a [[ChurchMilitant templar]] laughs at the templar's declarations of faith, taunting him that the god he worships and the heaven he hopes for simply don't exist, but that there are demons. He then attacks the party. (There is never any solid indication that the god the templars Templars worship really exists. Their church was started by a prophet who was said to have divine powers, but there is a competing theory that she was simply an incredibly powerful mage.)
18th Jun '16 6:44:45 PM Fireblood
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* In ''Literature/TheWheelOfTime'', the Dark One has hordes of evil creatures, Darkfriend spies infiltrating every level of society, and the Forsaken, and has been trying to destroy all of creation since the beginning of time. The Creator never makes any sort of appearance except possibly as a mysterious voice in the first and last books); in a late book, Rand gives a mini-rant about how the Creator created their world and then went on to create countless more without care of whether individual worlds died out, though this is implied to have been influenced by his psychic link to [[StrawNihilist Moridin]]. In His place are a variety of automatic error-correcting routines built into the Pattern, like creating/reincarnating [[DeusExMachina ta'veren]].

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* In ''Literature/TheWheelOfTime'', the Dark One has hordes of evil creatures, Darkfriend spies infiltrating every level of society, and the Forsaken, and has been trying to destroy all of creation since the beginning of time. The Creator never makes any sort of appearance except (except possibly as a mysterious voice in the first and last books); in a late book, Rand gives a mini-rant about how the Creator created their world and then went on to create countless more without care of whether individual worlds died out, though this is implied to have been influenced by his psychic link to [[StrawNihilist Moridin]]. In His place are a variety of automatic error-correcting routines built into the Pattern, like creating/reincarnating [[DeusExMachina ta'veren]].



* ''The Wheel of Time'' did it, so ''Literature/SwordOfTruth'' copied it, only worse. The Keeper of the Underworld wants to break free of the Underworld and enter the world of life, and has plenty of [[EvilSorcerer evil wizards and sorceresses]] willing to help him with his goal. But the Creator is said to be nothing more than a "personification of" the natural force of creation--at one point, the author goes out of his way to explain that some people think of the Creator as an omniscient and omnipotent person much like the Judeo-Christian God, and [[AuthorFilibuster point out how foolish such a belief is]]--and the people who believe in a real, personified Creator are either misguided and potentially dangerous {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s or [[StrawCharacter evil communist crusaders intent on destroying all liberty and enforcing their dangerous, hateful religion by the sword.]] It also smells of of {{Retcon}}, as Creator/TerryGoodkind [[AbortedArc abandoned the whole idea after two books]]. The final verdict seems to be that both the Creator and the Keeper of the Underworld are essentially mindless, but very real, aspects of nature (representing life and death, respectively), and people who treat either as a deity are doing something silly.
* Subverted in ''The Literature/{{Dragonlance}} Chronicles''. As [[GodOfEvil Queen Takhisis's]] armies of darkness cover the land, conquering all before them, it seems as though Paladine, the god of good, is nowhere to be found, until it's revealed in the third book that [[spoiler: he's been traveling with the heroes on and off since about halfway through the first book, under the name of Fizban, helping to guide events to the point where Takhisis can be defeated.]]

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* ''The Wheel of Time'' did it, so ''Literature/SwordOfTruth'' copied it, only worse. The Keeper of the Underworld wants to break free of the Underworld and enter the world of life, and has plenty of [[EvilSorcerer evil wizards and sorceresses]] willing to help him with his goal. But the Creator is said to be nothing more than a "personification of" the natural force of creation--at one point, the author goes out of his way to explain that some people think of the Creator as an omniscient and omnipotent person much like the Judeo-Christian God, and [[AuthorFilibuster point out how foolish such a belief is]]--and the people who believe in a real, personified Creator are either misguided and potentially dangerous {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s or [[StrawCharacter evil communist crusaders crusaders]] intent on destroying all liberty and enforcing their [[ReligionOfEvil dangerous, hateful religion by the sword.]] It also smells of of like a {{Retcon}}, as Creator/TerryGoodkind [[AbortedArc abandoned the whole idea after two books]]. The final verdict seems to be that both the Creator and the Keeper of the Underworld are essentially mindless, but very real, aspects of nature (representing life and death, respectively), and people who treat either as a deity are doing something silly.
* Subverted {{Subverted}} in ''The Literature/{{Dragonlance}} Chronicles''. As [[GodOfEvil Queen Takhisis's]] armies of darkness cover the land, conquering all before them, it seems as though Paladine, the god of good, is nowhere to be found, until it's revealed in the third book that [[spoiler: he's been traveling with the heroes on and off since about halfway through the first book, under the name of Fizban, helping to guide events to the point where Takhisis can be defeated.]]



* In Creator/HPLovecraft's works and the resulting Franchise/CthulhuMythos, there is neither a God or the Devil (altough Nyarlatothep does fulfill the Devil's role in some ways), just [[CosmicHorrorStory ancient godlike beings who don't give a damn about humanity and will kill us all when they return]]. The closest thing to good deities (the Elder Gods), have no more love for humans than the others; they just want to keep the Great Old Ones imprisoned (and since that is a good thing for humanity, they can be considered "good" from our perspective).
** Notably, the Elder Gods were an addition by August Derleth, who was an avid admirer of Lovecraft, as well as a devout Christian, and couldn't, or didn't want to understand Lovecraft's intentions to depict the universe as a hostile and uncaring place where humanity has absolutely no special position, and instead made Earth the central battleground for cosmic incarnations of good and evil. Latter contributors to the Mythos often kept the Elder Gods, but made them less "good" than "uncaring but opposed to more dangerous things".
** Also, while Nyarlathotep gets continuously interpreted as the Devil by various humans, the implications that aren't dependent on the UnreliableNarrator seem to portray him as a Shiva-like destructive, but impartial deity.
*** Athough he ''does'' often appear to enjoy himself ''immensely'' when seen in in human form...

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* In Creator/HPLovecraft's works and the resulting Franchise/CthulhuMythos, there is neither a God or the Devil (altough (although Nyarlatothep does fulfill the Devil's role in some ways), just [[CosmicHorrorStory ancient godlike beings who don't give a damn about humanity and will kill us all when they return]]. The closest thing to good deities (the Elder Gods), have no more love for humans than the others; they just want to keep the Great Old Ones imprisoned (and since that is a good thing for humanity, they can be considered "good" from our perspective).
** Notably, the Elder Gods were an addition by August Derleth, who was an avid admirer of Lovecraft, as well as a devout Christian, and couldn't, couldn't or didn't want to understand Lovecraft's intentions to depict the universe as a hostile and uncaring place where humanity has absolutely no special position, and instead made Earth the central battleground for cosmic incarnations of good and evil. Latter contributors to the Mythos often kept the Elder Gods, but made them less "good" than "uncaring but opposed to more dangerous things".
** Also, while Nyarlathotep gets continuously interpreted as the Devil by various humans, the implications that aren't dependent on the UnreliableNarrator seem to portray him as a Shiva-like destructive, destructive but impartial deity.
*** Athough Although he ''does'' often appear to enjoy himself ''immensely'' when seen in in human form...



*** The physical universe does have a divine creator, in a certain sense of the word. It was created by Azatoth, who's sometimes irreverently refered to as the "Blind Idiot God", because he is little more than a mindless formless mass of chaos residing in the center of reality. He is also the progenitor of all the Outer Gods.

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*** The physical universe does have a divine creator, in a certain sense of the word. It was created by Azatoth, who's sometimes irreverently refered referred to as the "Blind Idiot God", because he is little more than a mindless formless mass of chaos residing in the center of reality. He is also the progenitor of all the Outer Gods.
18th Jun '16 6:32:16 PM Fireblood
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* ''Series/LegendOfTheSeeker'': Unlike in the book series, the Creator ''does'' show up.... maybe. And like in ''Literature/TheSalvationWar'', ''everyone'' who dies goes to a FireAndBrimstoneHell. However, Darken Rahl implies at one point that it's only because the veil has been torn that everyone who dies goes there -- in the normal course of things, only bad people go there, while good people go to some unspecified but presumably much nicer place to "bask in the Creator's light forever".[[note]]In the books it's explained that the underworld has levels of a sort, with the righteous becoming "good spirits" that dwell on the top near the light, while the wicked plunge down into the depths where they're tormented.[[/note]]
6th Jun '16 2:29:56 AM Malitia
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** The Marvel Universe with this is actually an inversion of the trope. As in there is quite clearly a supreme God (The One-Above-All) but no supreme Devil. About the One-Above-All there are two hypotheses floating around with an accompanying ShrugOfGod as both have their own implications the company doesn't want to tackle: 1) They are the Judeo-Christian God (which would lead to uncomfortable questions about the other gods) 2) They are an AuthorAvatar (which would "demote" YHVH to just another godhead like Zeus or Odin). If you dig deep enough you can find canonical evidence for ''both''.

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** The Marvel Universe with this is actually an inversion of the trope. As in there is quite clearly a supreme God (The One-Above-All) but no supreme Devil. About the One-Above-All there are two hypotheses floating around with an accompanying ShrugOfGod as both have their own implications the company doesn't want to tackle: 1) They are the Judeo-Christian God (which would lead to uncomfortable questions about the other gods) 2) They are an AuthorAvatar (which would "demote" YHVH to just another godhead like Zeus or Odin). If you dig deep enough you can find canonical evidence for ''both''.''[[MindScrew both]]'', but generally option 2 seems to be more popular (and would actually explain 1) too, when the author happens to be monotheistic his/her god will be the supreme one).
6th Jun '16 2:18:10 AM Malitia
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** Journey Into Mystery (The Thor comic)[[note]]NOT the original comic that launched The Mighty Thor, but rather the mid 2010's comic which featured TheEnsembleDarkHorse Loki[[/note]] gave us a council of those various hell lords like Nightmare, Satannish, and the Son-of-Satan-father Satan[[note]]Who's in the past already claimed he just ''named'' himself after the biblical figure[[/note]]. The evil demonic beings meet up and all have their own throne. There is one empty, for the biblical Lucifer. It has never been used, but they're all ''terrified'' to sit on it and "claim" it, not only for the competition from the other Hell Lords vying for it, but of the possibility that the biblical Lucifer might actually ''be real and come back''.

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** Journey Into Mystery ''Comicbook/JourneyIntoMystery'' (The Thor comic)[[note]]NOT the original comic that launched The Mighty Thor, but rather the mid 2010's comic which featured TheEnsembleDarkHorse the EnsembleDarkHorse Loki[[/note]] gave us a council of those various hell lords like Nightmare, Satannish, and the Son-of-Satan-father Satan[[note]]Who's in the past already claimed he just ''named'' himself after the biblical figure[[/note]]. The evil demonic beings meet up and all have their own throne. There is one empty, empty in the middle, for the biblical Lucifer. true Satan ruler of all hells. It has never been used, but they're all ''terrified'' to sit on it and "claim" it, not only for the competition from the other Hell Lords vying for it, but of the possibility that the biblical Lucifer he might actually ''be real and come back''.back''.
** The Marvel Universe with this is actually an inversion of the trope. As in there is quite clearly a supreme God (The One-Above-All) but no supreme Devil. About the One-Above-All there are two hypotheses floating around with an accompanying ShrugOfGod as both have their own implications the company doesn't want to tackle: 1) They are the Judeo-Christian God (which would lead to uncomfortable questions about the other gods) 2) They are an AuthorAvatar (which would "demote" YHVH to just another godhead like Zeus or Odin). If you dig deep enough you can find canonical evidence for ''both''.
2nd Jun '16 5:30:54 PM PaulA
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* In another series from Creator/TanithLee, ''Literature/TalesFromTheFlatEarth'', who seems to love CrapsackWorld tropes in general, this trope turns up frequently. While the series definitely has Gods, they're NeglectfulPrecursors who created the universe, got bored with it, and now do nothing but stand around contemplating their own greatness. They've intervened in the world approximately three times, all of which were to deliver smack-downs on anyone who dared to challenge them: the first is when they flooded the earth because people were acquiring too much magical power (mentioned in the second book), the second when a mad king tried to build a tower to heaven and storm it, and the third when they send robot-angels to destroy a new emerging religion. The primary protagonists of the series are chief demons/personifications of dark forces named the "Lords of Darkness," particularly Azhrarn, the Lord of Evil, who has a BlueAndOrangeMorality, and is probably as old as the Gods themselves. Much of the series is devoted to showing how he manipulates humanity for his own pleasure, but is still (arguably) a friendlier force to humanity than the Gods. In the first book, after inadvertently beginning a chain of events leading to the Apocalypse, he enters Heaven to ask the Gods to do something, which they point-blank refuse, after which he proceeds to save the world himself.
2nd Jun '16 1:43:47 AM PaulA
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* In another series from Creator/TanithLee, ''Tales from the Flat Earth'', who seems to love CrapsackWorld tropes in general, this trope turns up frequently. While the series definitely has Gods, they're NeglectfulPrecursors who created the universe, got bored with it, and now do nothing but stand around contemplating their own greatness. They've intervened in the world approximately three times, all of which were to deliver smack-downs on anyone who dared to challenge them: the first is when they flooded the earth because people were acquiring too much magical power (mentioned in the second book), the second when a mad king tried to build a tower to heaven and storm it, and the third when they send robot-angels to destroy a new emerging religion. Actually, the entire series is made of this trope, since the primary protagonists of the series are chief demons/personifications of dark forces named the "Lords of Darkness," particularly Azhrarn, the Lord of Evil, who has a BlueAndOrangeMorality, and is probably as old as the Gods themselves. Much of the series is devoted to showing how he manipulates humanity for his own pleasure, but is still (arguably) a friendlier force to humanity than the Gods. In the first book, after inadvertently beginning a chain of events leading to the Apocalypse, he enters Heaven to ask the Gods to do something, which they point-blank refuse, after which he proceeds to save the world in an interesting subversion of the trope.

to:

* In another series from Creator/TanithLee, ''Tales from the Flat Earth'', ''Literature/TalesFromTheFlatEarth'', who seems to love CrapsackWorld tropes in general, this trope turns up frequently. While the series definitely has Gods, they're NeglectfulPrecursors who created the universe, got bored with it, and now do nothing but stand around contemplating their own greatness. They've intervened in the world approximately three times, all of which were to deliver smack-downs on anyone who dared to challenge them: the first is when they flooded the earth because people were acquiring too much magical power (mentioned in the second book), the second when a mad king tried to build a tower to heaven and storm it, and the third when they send robot-angels to destroy a new emerging religion. Actually, the entire series is made of this trope, since the The primary protagonists of the series are chief demons/personifications of dark forces named the "Lords of Darkness," particularly Azhrarn, the Lord of Evil, who has a BlueAndOrangeMorality, and is probably as old as the Gods themselves. Much of the series is devoted to showing how he manipulates humanity for his own pleasure, but is still (arguably) a friendlier force to humanity than the Gods. In the first book, after inadvertently beginning a chain of events leading to the Apocalypse, he enters Heaven to ask the Gods to do something, which they point-blank refuse, after which he proceeds to save the world in an interesting subversion of the trope.himself.
21st May '16 8:18:13 PM erforce
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* Even present in ''Film/{{Ghostbusters}}'' and its related media; while there's plenty of evil gods and lesser deities (like Gozer) running around, there's no indication of any good gods opposing them, so the Busters have to make do with science.
** Well, Marduk appeared in one episode of the cartoon, and was a depicted as a fairly benevolent "god of the city". He still needed the Ghostbusters' help to defeat his ancient enemy Tiamat, though.
** Also, in the original film there are hints by some characters that Gozer is the harbinger of the Biblical Apocalypse, and not just its own brand of doom. The ending of the second film implies the Busters might have something divine backing them up somehow; [[spoiler: when Viggo's painting is destroyed, it's revealed that underneath it is a renaissance painting of the Ghostbusters portrayed as Saints.]]

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* Even present in ''Film/{{Ghostbusters}}'' ''Franchise/{{Ghostbusters}}'' and its related media; while there's plenty of evil gods and lesser deities (like Gozer) running around, there's no indication of any good gods opposing them, so the Busters have to make do with science.
** Well, Marduk appeared in one episode of [[WesternAnimation/TheRealGhostbusters the cartoon, cartoon]], and was a depicted as a fairly benevolent "god of the city". He still needed the Ghostbusters' help to defeat his ancient enemy Tiamat, though.
** Also, in the [[Film/{{Ghostbusters 1984}} original film film]] there are hints by some characters that Gozer is the harbinger of the Biblical Apocalypse, and not just its own brand of doom. doom.
**
The ending of the [[Film/GhostbustersII second film film]] implies the Busters might have something divine backing them up somehow; [[spoiler: when Viggo's painting is destroyed, it's revealed that underneath it is a renaissance painting of the Ghostbusters portrayed as Saints.]]
20th May '16 3:48:39 AM Chabal2
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* ''VideoGame/DragonQuestIX'': There ''was'' a God, but He was going to destroy the world due to its evil. His daughter intervened and turned herself into a tree until the humans showed enough benevolence to return her to her true form. Corvus, an angel who was betrayed by humans, went into RageAgainstTheHeavens mode when released by the hero and attacked Zenus, splitting Him into ten fragments that serve as BonusBosses, some more self-aware than others.
18th May '16 8:44:02 AM BillyH666
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** DOOM2016 looks to avert this, as it's Doomguy is said to have been given powers by Seraphim, whether they are actually angelic beings, or just powerful aliens however, is anyone's guess.
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