History Main / DevilButNoGod

12th Apr '17 11:24:48 PM FunnelVortex
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* ''WesternAnimation/RickAndMorty'': The Devil appears in one episode but God is never seen, and is repeatedly stated by Rick C-137 (the smartest man in the multiverse) to not exist.
** Although this may just be Rick's personal belief.
** Interestingly, Rick does acknowledge Jesus as the savior in S1 Ep 3. And in S2 Ep 1, he prays to God when he believes he's going to die.
*** But in the case of the latter, Rick goes back to saying God doesn't exist as soon as he realizes he is going to live.
** It is certainly possible that God may indeed exist as well and Rick is aware of the fact, [[HollywoodAtheist but chooses to deny it's existence or defy it's authority for whatever reason.]]
** It is also possible that "The Devil" is not actually the biblical/literal devil, but rather yet another interdimensional being who is just a mere annoyance to Rick. Given the nature of the Rick and Morty universe, this could very well be the case.
4th Apr '17 9:01:53 AM merotoker
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It's worth noting that the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity) tend to forbid visual ''depictions'' of God (the argument being that [[YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm it's impossible for a human to accurately depict an all-powerful, incomprehensible being beyond all space-time]], and they probably have a point), so this trope may exist out of respect to such traditions.

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It's worth noting that the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Islam, (UsefulNotes/{{Judaism}}, UsefulNotes/{{Islam}}, and Christianity) UsefulNotes/{{Christianity}}) tend to forbid visual ''depictions'' of God (the argument being that [[YouCannotGraspTheTrueForm it's impossible for a human to accurately depict an all-powerful, incomprehensible being beyond all space-time]], and they probably have a point), so this trope may exist out of respect to such traditions.



Another alternate explanation is that in most cases He knows {{the hero}}es [[OmniscientMoralityLicense don't actually need His help]], so He doesn't give it. Another reason is that God might easily become the ultimate InvincibleHero or DeusExMachina (in fact, the very name DeusExMachina came from the habit of Greek and Roman plays to have one of the gods come down from the heavens to fix up the mess the others had created), so the writers need to [[DeusExitMachina get rid of him]]. Possibly [[JustifiedTrope justified]] if [[RousseauWasRight people are significantly harder to make bad than good]].

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Another alternate explanation is that in most cases He knows {{the hero}}es [[OmniscientMoralityLicense don't actually need His help]], so He doesn't give it. Another reason is that God might easily become the ultimate InvincibleHero or DeusExMachina (in fact, the very name DeusExMachina came from the habit of Greek and Roman plays to have one of the gods come down from the heavens to fix up the mess the others had created), so the writers need to [[DeusExitMachina get rid of him]]. Possibly [[JustifiedTrope justified]] {{justified|Trope}} if [[RousseauWasRight people are significantly harder to make bad than good]].






** DC's has a God-surrogate called The Presence, and there are several other beings which are pretty God-like. For continuity purposes, these are sometimes explained as being various aspects of The Presence.

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** DC's DC has a God-surrogate called The Presence, and there are several other beings which are pretty God-like. For continuity purposes, these are sometimes explained as being various aspects of The Presence.



** By contrast to this, various devils often show up in the DC Universe, most notably Neron, whose shtick is making Deal With The Devil type bargains with unwitting mortals. Demons seem to pop up far more often in the series then their heavenly counterparts, even though some (like Comicbook/{{Etrigan}}) aren't all bad. Comicbook/{{Lucifer}} even had his own ongoing title under the Vertigo imprint.
* In The Sandman, we're introduced to Lucifer Morningstar, who for all intents and purposes is Satan; he and several other powerful demons preside over Hell. While there are also angels and we're offered a glimpse of Heaven, God is only briefly mentioned in passing. There are many deities and spirits from various mythologies represented in the series, but the Judeo-Christian God never makes an appearance.

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** By contrast to this, various devils often show up in the DC Universe, most notably Neron, whose shtick is making Deal With The Devil type bargains with unwitting mortals. Demons seem to pop up far more often in the series then their heavenly counterparts, even though some (like Comicbook/{{Etrigan}}) aren't all bad. Comicbook/{{Lucifer}} even had his own ongoing title under the Vertigo Creator/{{Vertigo|Comics}} imprint.
* In The Sandman, ComicBook/TheSandman, we're introduced to Lucifer Morningstar, who for all intents and purposes is Satan; he and several other powerful demons preside over Hell. While there are also angels and we're offered a glimpse of Heaven, God is only briefly mentioned in passing. There are many deities and spirits from various mythologies represented in the series, but the Judeo-Christian God never makes an appearance.



** ''Comicbook/JourneyIntoMystery'' (The Thor comic)[[note]]NOT the original comic that launched The Mighty Thor, but rather the mid 2010's comic which featured the EnsembleDarkHorse Loki[[/note]] gave us a council of those various hell lords like Nightmare, Satannish, and the Son-of-Satan-father Satan[[note]]Who's in the past already claimed he just ''named'' himself after the biblical figure[[/note]]. The evil demonic beings meet up and all have their own throne. There is one empty in the middle, for the true Satan ruler of all hells. It has never been used, but they're all ''terrified'' to sit on it and "claim" it, not only for the competition from the other Hell Lords vying for it, but of the possibility that he might ''be real and come back''.

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** ''Comicbook/JourneyIntoMystery'' (The Thor (ComicBook/TheMightyThor comic)[[note]]NOT the original comic that launched The Mighty Thor, but rather the mid 2010's comic which featured the EnsembleDarkHorse Loki[[/note]] ComicBook/{{Loki}}[[/note]] gave us a council of those various hell lords like Nightmare, Satannish, and the Son-of-Satan-father Satan[[note]]Who's in the past already claimed he just ''named'' himself after the biblical figure[[/note]]. The evil demonic beings meet up and all have their own throne. There is one empty in the middle, for the true Satan ruler of all hells. It has never been used, but they're all ''terrified'' to sit on it and "claim" it, not only for the competition from the other Hell Lords vying for it, but of the possibility that he might ''be real and come back''.



** The ending of the [[Film/GhostbustersII second film]] implies the Busters might have something divine backing them up somehow; [[spoiler: when Viggo's painting is destroyed, it's revealed that underneath it is a renaissance painting of the Ghostbusters portrayed as Saints.]]
* Mike Nelson pointed this out in his book ''Mike Nelson's Movie Megacheese'' in the review of ''Film/EventHorizon'', in the form of a hypothetical conversation that somehow turns into [[RuleOfFunny him ordering a sandwich from the reader.]].

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** The ending of the [[Film/GhostbustersII the second film]] implies the Busters might have something divine backing them up somehow; [[spoiler: when Viggo's painting is destroyed, it's revealed that underneath it is a renaissance painting of the Ghostbusters portrayed as Saints.]]
Saints]].
* Mike Nelson pointed this out in his book ''Mike Nelson's Movie Megacheese'' in the review of ''Film/EventHorizon'', in the form of a hypothetical conversation that somehow turns into [[RuleOfFunny him ordering a sandwich from the reader.]].]]



* Defied at the end of ''Film/{{Devil}}''. The Devil occasionally comes to Earth and and torments people, and there is no divine intervention. However, one character manages a RedemptionEarnsLife, and the narrator comments that if the Devil exists, God must exist too.
* In most horror/slasher films, the Big Bad has JokerImmunity, with little or no intervention from the Big Good, or any Good for that matter, apparently to rid anyone of a heavenly HopeSpot. For the sake of the franchise, even if killed, they are just one sequel away from being BackFromTheDead. Notably, [[Franchise/ANightmareOnElmStreet Freddy]], [[Franchise/FridayThe13th Jason]], [[Franchise/{{Halloween}} Mike Myers]], ''Film/DragMeToHell'', ''Film/{{Hostel}}''…the list goes on.

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* Defied at the end of ''Film/{{Devil}}''. The Devil occasionally comes to Earth and and torments people, and there is no divine intervention. However, one character manages a RedemptionEarnsLife, and the narrator comments that if the Devil exists, God must exist too.
* In most horror/slasher films, horror/{{Slasher Movie}}s, the Big Bad has JokerImmunity, with little or no intervention from the Big Good, or any Good for that matter, apparently to rid anyone of a heavenly HopeSpot. For the sake of the franchise, even if killed, they are just one sequel away from being BackFromTheDead. Notably, [[Franchise/ANightmareOnElmStreet Freddy]], [[Franchise/FridayThe13th Jason]], [[Franchise/{{Halloween}} Mike Myers]], ''Film/DragMeToHell'', ''Film/{{Hostel}}''…the list goes on.



* In ''Film/ThisIsTheEnd'', which takes place during the apocalypse, [[spoiler: the Devil is shown in detail, but God is not shown. This is despite the fact that 2 of the main characters ascend to FluffyCloudHeaven at the end of the movie and become angels.]]

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* In ''Film/ThisIsTheEnd'', which takes place during the apocalypse, [[spoiler: the Devil is shown in detail, but God is not shown. This is despite the fact that 2 of the main characters ascend to FluffyCloudHeaven at the end of the movie and become angels.]]angels]].



* {{Subverted}} in ''The Literature/{{Dragonlance}} Chronicles''. As [[GodOfEvil Queen Takhisis's]] armies of darkness cover the land, conquering all before them, it seems as though Paladine, the god of good, is nowhere to be found, until it's revealed in the third book that [[spoiler: he's been traveling with the heroes on and off since about halfway through the first book, under the name of Fizban, helping to guide events to the point where Takhisis can be defeated.]]

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* {{Subverted}} {{Subverted|Trope}} in ''The Literature/{{Dragonlance}} Chronicles''. As [[GodOfEvil Queen Takhisis's]] armies of darkness cover the land, conquering all before them, it seems as though Paladine, the god of good, is nowhere to be found, until it's revealed in the third book that [[spoiler: he's been traveling with the heroes on and off since about halfway through the first book, under the name of Fizban, helping to guide events to the point where Takhisis can be defeated.]]defeated]].



Another example from Creator/CSLewis would be ''[[Literature/TheSpaceTrilogy Perelandra]]'': Satan (or one of his [[RougeAnglesOfSatin Rouge Angles]]) acts directly through his possessed tool ''the Un-man'' while the forces of good are represented only by the protagonist, Ransom. In the story, Ransom wishes several times that he could have help from the forces of Good. Somewhat subverted in that Ransom gets the equivalent of a pep-talk from God and realizes that he himself ''is'' that help before [[spoiler: challenging the Un-man to a duel to the death.]]

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Another example from Creator/CSLewis would be ''[[Literature/TheSpaceTrilogy Perelandra]]'': Satan (or one of his [[RougeAnglesOfSatin Rouge Angles]]) {{Rouge Angles|OfSatin}}) acts directly through his possessed tool ''the Un-man'' while the forces of good are represented only by the protagonist, Ransom. In the story, Ransom wishes several times that he could have help from the forces of Good. Somewhat subverted in that Ransom gets the equivalent of a pep-talk from God and realizes that he himself ''is'' that help before [[spoiler: challenging the Un-man to a duel to the death.]]



** ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'' has [[spoiler: several shards (i.e. specialized gods) involved at some point, but by the end of the first book, it is quite clear that the one most definitely invested in saving Roshar from destruction is dead, while the most definitely evil shard who killed him is apparently returning to finish the job. Or something; it's hard to say. Still, Ouch.]]

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** ''Literature/TheStormlightArchive'' has [[spoiler: several shards (i.e. specialized gods) involved at some point, but by the end of the first book, it is quite clear that the one most definitely invested in saving Roshar from destruction is dead, while the most definitely evil shard who killed him is apparently returning to finish the job. Or something; it's hard to say. Still, Ouch.]]Ouch]].



** It's worth noticing that at least some Graeco-Roman and Egyptian deities exist in some form in the Buffyverse, with appeal to Hecate, Janus and Osiris resulting in, variously, [[BalefulPolymorph transformation into a rat]], everybody transforming into their costumes, and [[BackFromTheDead resurrection]]. These may just be sufficiently advanced demons. Glory is also referred to as a God, though one of the evil ones.

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** It's worth noticing that at least some Graeco-Roman and Egyptian deities exist in some form in the Buffyverse, with appeal to Hecate, Janus and Osiris resulting in, variously, [[BalefulPolymorph transformation into a rat]], everybody [[BecomingTheCostume transforming into their costumes, costumes]], and [[BackFromTheDead resurrection]]. These may just be sufficiently advanced demons. Glory is also referred to as a God, though one of the evil ones.



* ''Series/BabylonFive'': The Shadows are almost a ShoutOut to the devil, but they don't really have a good counterpart. The Vorlons are the good equivalent as Kosh appears as the epitome of each race's archangel when he left his suit at that one time. The thing is Vorlons and Shadows try to play the Good/Evil axis, but are really templers of the Order/Chaos axis. In Season Four, it's revealed that [[spoiler:the Vorlons aren't the good guys, they're almost as bad as the Shadows, and they only appear to be angels because they genetically and telepathically manipulated the younger races. When their true form is finally revealed, they're clearly StarfishAliens.]] Even Lorien, the oldest and most powerful being in the galaxy, refers to the universe itself as the creator of life.

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* ''Series/BabylonFive'': The Shadows are almost a ShoutOut to the devil, but they don't really have a good counterpart. The Vorlons are the good equivalent as Kosh appears as the epitome of each race's archangel when he left his suit at that one time. The thing is Vorlons and Shadows try to play the Good/Evil axis, but are really templers of the Order/Chaos axis. In Season Four, it's revealed that [[spoiler:the Vorlons aren't the good guys, they're almost as bad as the Shadows, and they only appear to be angels because they genetically and telepathically manipulated the younger races. When their true form is finally revealed, they're clearly StarfishAliens.]] StarfishAliens]]. Even Lorien, the oldest and most powerful being in the galaxy, refers to the universe itself as the creator of life.



* In ''Series/MarriedWithChildren'', Al Bundy meets Lucifer, but cannot disturb God: He's watching ''KnotsLanding''. He does get an oblique mention (though no name-check) in their ItsAWonderfulPlot episode. The angel (played by Creator/SamKinison) who visits Al intimates that God spends a lot of time playing Creator/{{Nintendo}}.

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* In ''Series/MarriedWithChildren'', Al Bundy meets Lucifer, but cannot disturb God: He's watching ''KnotsLanding''.''Series/KnotsLanding''. He does get an oblique mention (though no name-check) in their ItsAWonderfulPlot episode. The angel (played by Creator/SamKinison) who visits Al intimates that God spends a lot of time playing Creator/{{Nintendo}}.



* ''VideoGame/GrandiaII'''s big twist is that [[spoiler:Granas, the God of Light, was killed at the hands of Valmar, the Devil of Darkness]]. And then subverted or possibly played double-straight when [[spoiler:it's revealed that while Granas was alive, he ruled a totalitarian empire that forced all people to worship him constantly. The creators of the Devil entity were originally just your typical rebel alliance. Oh, and both gods are really just products of extremely (sufficiently) advanced technology.]]
* This seems to be the case in the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' series, featuring TheLegionsOfHell and their leader Mundus, but nothing supporting the existence of God. Similarly, angels have been mentioned in passing a few times, but the series has yet to explore their existence in depth.

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* ''VideoGame/GrandiaII'''s big twist is that [[spoiler:Granas, the God of Light, was killed at the hands of Valmar, the Devil of Darkness]]. And then subverted or possibly played double-straight when [[spoiler:it's revealed that while Granas was alive, he ruled a totalitarian empire that forced all people to worship him constantly. The creators of the Devil entity were originally just your typical rebel alliance. Oh, and both gods are really just products of extremely (sufficiently) advanced technology.]]
technology]].
* This seems to be the case in the ''VideoGame/DevilMayCry'' ''Franchise/DevilMayCry'' series, featuring TheLegionsOfHell and their leader Mundus, but nothing supporting the existence of God. Similarly, angels have been mentioned in passing a few times, but the series has yet to explore their existence in depth.



* Played with in ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVII''. The final battle between God and the Demon Lord ended with both MIA, but most of the world was still sealed away by evil, so that only a single island remains intact when the game begins. As you progress, the question of whether or not the Demon Lord ''won'' is repeatedly raised. Oh, sure, it looks like God [[CrazyPrepared planned for this]] by setting up a ritual to reawaken him... [[spoiler: But when the ritual's performed, the 'God' who's summoned [[GodIsEvil ain't the nicest]] [[FakeKing guy around]].]] Then post game [[spoiler: where you do find the real God, it turns out he decided to let humanity sort out the Demon Lord and restore the sealed world themselves while he just watched.]] Even more telling is that [[spoiler: When you call him on it he proves both stronger then the Demon Lord and able to drop in on the DL's throne room at will.]]
* Prevalent in ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' series, with the supposed conflict between (the adherents of) The Nine Divines and the Daedra Lords. The Daedra Lords, while not universally evil (some are, in fact, quite decent people, and all tend to hold up their end of a bargain), tend to be amoral, unpredictable, sadistic and, on occasion, prone to attempting world conquest. They are universally reviled as 'evil', and their worshipers are considered misguided at best, and dangerous lunatics at worst. They ''are'', however, very much present in the world. They speak directly to their worshipers, sometimes even appearing in a physical form, and are perfectly willing to offer immediate, tangible rewards for those that choose to do their work. The Nine, on the other hand, do very little, apart from their altars supposedly granting blessings and healing diseases, which any semi-competent spellcaster could pull ''that'' off. The main time the Divines intervene is during the Knights Of The Nine, when [[spoiler: the prophet of the Nine gives you a new ability, which he says comes from the god Talos, and will allow you to kill the Big Bad of the game's arc [[DeaderThanDead in the dimension he goes to get a new body.]] After the battle, you die too, only to come back after a few days. The only explanation anyone can offer is that the divines brought you back.]] You are the only one to directly benefit from divine interventions in game, apart from a major intervention in a spoiler below.
** This is mentioned by the Oblivion NPC Else God Hater, a [[spoiler:Daedra Lord worshiper.]] "The gods don't do a damn thing. Do they even exist? How could anyone tell? Daedra Lords, sure. They exist. They do things. Bad things, mostly, but things you can see. The gods? They don't do a damn thing. So why do we build big chapels and sit around and mumble, and ask them to save us from this and that? It's stupid. And chapels and priests and folks groveling on their knees, they're stupid, too."

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* Played with in ''VideoGame/DragonQuestVII''. The final battle between God and the Demon Lord ended with both MIA, but most of the world was still sealed away by evil, so that only a single island remains intact when the game begins. As you progress, the question of whether or not the Demon Lord ''won'' is repeatedly raised. Oh, sure, it looks like God [[CrazyPrepared planned for this]] by setting up a ritual to reawaken him... [[spoiler: But when the ritual's performed, the 'God' who's summoned [[GodIsEvil ain't the nicest]] [[FakeKing guy around]].]] Then post game [[spoiler: where you do find the real God, it turns out he decided to let humanity sort out the Demon Lord and restore the sealed world themselves while he just watched.]] watched]]. Even more telling is that [[spoiler: When you call him on it he proves both stronger then the Demon Lord and able to drop in on the DL's throne room at will.]]
will]].
* Prevalent in ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' series, with the supposed conflict between (the adherents of) The Nine Divines and the Daedra Lords. The Daedra Lords, while not universally evil (some are, in fact, quite decent people, and all tend to hold up their end of a bargain), tend to be amoral, unpredictable, sadistic and, on occasion, prone to attempting world conquest. They are universally reviled as 'evil', and their worshipers are considered misguided at best, and dangerous lunatics at worst. They ''are'', however, very much present in the world. They speak directly to their worshipers, sometimes even appearing in a physical form, and are perfectly willing to offer immediate, tangible rewards for those that choose to do their work. The Nine, on the other hand, do very little, apart from their altars supposedly granting blessings and healing diseases, which any semi-competent spellcaster could pull ''that'' off. The main time the Divines intervene is during the Knights Of The Nine, when [[spoiler: the prophet of the Nine gives you a new ability, which he says comes from the god Talos, and will allow you to kill the Big Bad of the game's arc [[DeaderThanDead in the dimension he goes to get a new body.]] After the battle, you die too, only to come back after a few days. The only explanation anyone can offer is that the divines brought you back.]] back]]. You are the only one to directly benefit from divine interventions in game, apart from a major intervention in a spoiler below.
** This is mentioned by the Oblivion NPC Else God Hater, a [[spoiler:Daedra Lord worshiper.]] worshiper]]. "The gods don't do a damn thing. Do they even exist? How could anyone tell? Daedra Lords, sure. They exist. They do things. Bad things, mostly, but things you can see. The gods? They don't do a damn thing. So why do we build big chapels and sit around and mumble, and ask them to save us from this and that? It's stupid. And chapels and priests and folks groveling on their knees, they're stupid, too."



** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'' you see the [[spoiler: Avatar of Akatosh when he comes to defeat Mehrunes Dagon, but only after Martin sacrifices himself to call on its power.]]
** ''Oblivion'' and ''Morrowind'' drop huge metaphysical bombshells on this subject. As it turns out [[spoiler: the world as you know it is possibly Lorkhan's daedra realm, therefore men, elves, the missing dwarves and all animals or monsters, you're probably all daedra. Daedra have unearthly and demonic connotations, but only because people are ignorant of the fact that they and the animals or monsters that live around them are likely the metaphysical equals of the 'demons' that live in other realms. Hell, there are extremely "human" daedra and the magic of men and daedra are not only equivalent but work based on the same fundamental rules. The "gods" or Aedra do exist, or at least one of them does, and the story goes that most were daedric servants who rebelled against the realm's trickster creator god. The person who floats the idea seems ignorant about a lot of metaphysical trivia, is somewhat bonkers, might be lying due to his being a villain, and is unsupported by any other source on TES cosmology, thus probably meaning he's wrong about this.]]

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** In ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'' you see the [[spoiler: Avatar of Akatosh when he comes to defeat Mehrunes Dagon, but only after Martin sacrifices himself to call on its power.]]
power]].
** ''Oblivion'' and ''Morrowind'' drop huge metaphysical bombshells on this subject. As it turns out [[spoiler: the world as you know it is possibly Lorkhan's daedra realm, therefore men, elves, the missing dwarves and all animals or monsters, you're probably all daedra. Daedra have unearthly and demonic connotations, but only because people are ignorant of the fact that they and the animals or monsters that live around them are likely the metaphysical equals of the 'demons' that live in other realms. Hell, there are extremely "human" daedra and the magic of men and daedra are not only equivalent but work based on the same fundamental rules. The "gods" or Aedra do exist, or at least one of them does, and the story goes that most were daedric servants who rebelled against the realm's trickster creator god. The person who floats the idea seems ignorant about a lot of metaphysical trivia, is somewhat bonkers, might be lying due to his being a villain, and is unsupported by any other source on TES cosmology, thus probably meaning he's wrong about this.]]this]].



** ''Chronophantasma'' eventually reveals that there IS a God... but didn't make anything better. Said God is... [[spoiler:Izanami, the Goddess of Death, and by all means, after Terumi is actually disposed... [[GodAndSatanAreBothJerks she's going to do something worse.]]]] Ultimately subverted by the time ''Central Fiction'' runs in, because [[spoiler:Izanami was just an aspect of the actual God Amaterasu... but [[GodAndSatanAreBothJerks she's still kind of selfish and only runs in personal interest of getting herself out of the 'God' role she was put in]]. Meanwhile, Terumi returns and is revealed to be another God, Susano'o... but he still fulfills the SatanicArchetype, probably even moreso than before.]]

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** ''Chronophantasma'' eventually reveals that there IS a God... but didn't make anything better. Said God is... [[spoiler:Izanami, the Goddess of Death, and by all means, after Terumi is actually disposed... [[GodAndSatanAreBothJerks she's going to do something worse.]]]] Ultimately subverted by the time ''Central Fiction'' runs in, because [[spoiler:Izanami was just an aspect of the actual God Amaterasu... but [[GodAndSatanAreBothJerks she's still kind of selfish and only runs in personal interest of getting herself out of the 'God' role she was put in]]. Meanwhile, Terumi returns and is revealed to be another God, Susano'o... but he still fulfills the SatanicArchetype, probably even moreso than before.]]before]].



* [[ZigzaggedTrope Zigzagged]] in ''VideoGame/{{Touhou}}'', which is mainly based on ''UsefulNotes/{{Shinto}}''; ''Touhou'' has many God characters and a Lucifer-analogue in Shinki (though her canonicity, along with all other chracters from before the 6th game, is highly questionable). Oddly, Shinki is generally seen as a rather nice person, [[BewareTheNiceOnes if zealous and prone to violent outbursts when annoyed]]. On the other hand, while various God characters show up (many of which are almost pathetically weak), none of them are stated to be an "absolutely good" God. The one God stated to have this role, The Great Dragon, has never been seen and nobody knows what it looks like beyond "it's supposedly a dragon" and there is no confirmation that it even exists. Even main character Reimu Hakurei, who is supposed to be its High Priestess, has no connection to it and in fact for a long didn't even know what deity the Hakurei shrine is supposed to house and hence who she is supposed to serve.
* ''VideoGame/DragonQuestIX'': There ''was'' a God, but He was going to destroy the world due to its evil. His daughter intervened and turned herself into a tree until the humans showed enough benevolence to return her to her true form. Corvus, an angel who was betrayed by humans, went into RageAgainstTheHeavens mode when released by the hero and attacked Zenus, splitting Him into ten fragments that serve as BonusBosses, some more self-aware than others.

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* [[ZigzaggedTrope Zigzagged]] ZigZaggingTrope in ''VideoGame/{{Touhou}}'', which is mainly based on ''UsefulNotes/{{Shinto}}''; ''Touhou'' has many God characters and a Lucifer-analogue in Shinki (though her canonicity, along with all other chracters characters from before the 6th game, is highly questionable). Oddly, Shinki is generally seen as a rather nice person, [[BewareTheNiceOnes if zealous and prone to violent outbursts when annoyed]]. On the other hand, while various God characters show up (many of which are almost pathetically weak), none of them are stated to be an "absolutely good" God. The one God stated to have this role, The Great Dragon, has never been seen and nobody knows what it looks like beyond "it's supposedly a dragon" and there is no confirmation that it even exists. Even main character Reimu Hakurei, who is supposed to be its High Priestess, has no connection to it and in fact for a long didn't even know what deity the Hakurei shrine is supposed to house and hence who she is supposed to serve.
* ''VideoGame/DragonQuestIX'': There ''was'' a God, but He was going to destroy the world due to its evil. His daughter intervened and turned herself into a tree until the humans showed enough benevolence to return her to her true form. Corvus, an angel who was betrayed by humans, went into RageAgainstTheHeavens mode when released by the hero and attacked Zenus, splitting Him into ten fragments that serve as BonusBosses, {{Bonus Boss}}es, some more self-aware than others.
12th Mar '17 4:14:48 PM nombretomado
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* ''TabletopGame/{{Mortasheen}}'', as it usually does, does this in a weird way. There are no gods (unless you count [[OlympusMons The Ultimates]]), mainly because the creator, [[WordOfGod who said it himself]] is an "agnostic science nut". However, there are [[OurDemonsAreDifferent the equivalents to demons]] The Devilbirds, birds charged in the egg with negative psychic energy to cause and feed off of negative emotions. But, there are no angel equivalents. There [[http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=Necromon&order=9&offset=48#/d4p0bm were]] [[http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=§ion=&q=Necromon+Celestials#/d7psvh once]] when Mortasheen was still called Necromon, but the creator couldn't come up with any re-designs for them that he liked, so he scrapped them.


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[[folder:Web Original]]
* ''WebOriginal/{{Mortasheen}}'', as it usually does, does this in a weird way. There are no gods (unless you count [[OlympusMons The Ultimates]]), mainly because the creator, [[WordOfGod who said it himself]] is an "agnostic science nut". However, there are [[OurDemonsAreDifferent the equivalents to demons]] The Devilbirds, birds charged in the egg with negative psychic energy to cause and feed off of negative emotions. But, there are no angel equivalents. There [[http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=Necromon&order=9&offset=48#/d4p0bm were]] [[http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=§ion=&q=Necromon+Celestials#/d7psvh once]] when Mortasheen was still called Necromon, but the creator couldn't come up with any re-designs for them that he liked, so he scrapped them.
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20th Feb '17 5:10:52 AM jormis29
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** Early in the company's history, TSR did publish statistics for God, Jesus and Archangels, but later removed them from publication after heavy criticism. They have tons of other gods though, both evil and good.

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** Early in the company's history, TSR Creator/{{TSR}} did publish statistics for God, Jesus and Archangels, but later removed them from publication after heavy criticism. They have tons of other gods though, both evil and good.
23rd Jan '17 6:36:36 AM Chabal2
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* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' takes this to an extreme. The Chaos Gods are the [[TheHeartless sentient manifestations of the negative emotions]] of the galaxy (as well as the positive ones [[KnightTemplar warped ]] [[HotBlooded into the]] [[{{Yandere}} most extreme]] and [[LoveMakesYouCrazy twisted manner]] possible), but there is a [[BlackAndGrayMorality distinct lack]] of any positive alternatives. Even the surviving gods of the non-chaos factions tend to be genocidal jerkasses, and the worst gods are the C'Tan, who are trying to [[OmnicidalManiac exterminate every living thing in the universe]] then eat their souls afterward. Based on information from [[Wiki/{{Wikipedia}} The Other Wiki]], there may be two surviving non-evil gods... one is implied to be a C'tan (and therefore is one of the omnicidal gods out to ''eat'' souls [[spoiler: though in fairness, it may be due to their trickster natures, so it would be unsurprising that the two are separate entities that ''impersonate'' each other]]), and the other is being [[ColdBloodedTorture tortured]] by Nurgle (who is, incidentally, [[AffablyEvil one of the more likeable deities]]).

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* ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer 40000}}'' takes this to an extreme. The Chaos Gods are the [[TheHeartless sentient manifestations of the negative emotions]] of the galaxy (as well as the positive ones [[KnightTemplar warped ]] [[HotBlooded into the]] [[{{Yandere}} most extreme]] and [[LoveMakesYouCrazy twisted manner]] possible), but there is a [[BlackAndGrayMorality distinct lack]] of any positive alternatives. Even the surviving gods of the non-chaos factions tend to be genocidal jerkasses, and the worst gods are the C'Tan, who are trying to [[OmnicidalManiac exterminate every living thing in the universe]] then eat their souls afterward.afterward (and one of them is possibly the god of an Imperial faction, though they don't know it). Based on information from [[Wiki/{{Wikipedia}} The Other Wiki]], there may be two surviving non-evil gods... one is implied to be a C'tan (and therefore is one of the omnicidal gods out to ''eat'' souls [[spoiler: though in fairness, it may be due to their trickster natures, so it would be unsurprising that the two are separate entities that ''impersonate'' each other]]), and the other is being [[ColdBloodedTorture tortured]] by Nurgle (who is, incidentally, [[AffablyEvil one of the more likeable deities]]).
8th Dec '16 7:47:45 AM Lloigor
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* A [[Series/MysteryScienceTheater3000 MST3K]] blogger pointed this out in his review of the [=MST3K=] film ''Film/TouchOfSatan''.

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* A [[Series/MysteryScienceTheater3000 MST3K]] blogger pointed this out in his review of the [=MST3K=] film ''Film/TouchOfSatan''.''Film/TouchOfSatan'' is pretty much this.
30th Nov '16 10:17:10 PM ChrisX
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** ''Chronophantasma'' eventually reveals that there IS a God... but didn't make anything better. Said God is... [[spoiler:Izanami, the Goddess of Death, and by all means, after Terumi is actually disposed... [[GodAndSatanAreBothJerks she's going to do something worse.]]]]

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** ''Chronophantasma'' eventually reveals that there IS a God... but didn't make anything better. Said God is... [[spoiler:Izanami, the Goddess of Death, and by all means, after Terumi is actually disposed... [[GodAndSatanAreBothJerks she's going to do something worse.]]]]]]]] Ultimately subverted by the time ''Central Fiction'' runs in, because [[spoiler:Izanami was just an aspect of the actual God Amaterasu... but [[GodAndSatanAreBothJerks she's still kind of selfish and only runs in personal interest of getting herself out of the 'God' role she was put in]]. Meanwhile, Terumi returns and is revealed to be another God, Susano'o... but he still fulfills the SatanicArchetype, probably even moreso than before.]]
4th Oct '16 4:07:31 PM foxley
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* In ''Literature/ShadowPolice'', this is what the Smiling Man would like the heroes to believe (or, more specifically, that there is a Hell but no Heaven). Whether is actually true, or just a ploy to cause them to give in to despair remains to be seen.

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* In ''Literature/ShadowPolice'', this is what the Smiling Man would like the heroes to believe (or, more specifically, that there is a Hell but no Heaven). Whether this is actually true, or just a ploy to cause them to give in to despair remains to be seen.
4th Oct '16 3:56:24 PM foxley
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* In ''Literature/ShadowPolice'', this is what the Smiling Man would like the heroes to believe (or, more specifically, that there is a Hell but no Heaven). Whether is actually true, or just a ploy to cause them to give in to despair remains to be seen.
19th Sep '16 7:40:04 PM PaulA
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* This happens in Creator/PiersAnthony's ''Literature/IncarnationsOfImmortality'' series. Eventually, it becomes a plot point. And in the seventh book, [[spoiler: God is essentially fired and His position is filled by someone who'll actually ''do'' good instead of [[TheGodsMustBeLazy sitting around admiring how awesome they are]].]]

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* This happens in In Creator/PiersAnthony's ''Literature/IncarnationsOfImmortality'' series. Eventually, it becomes series, Satan and his minions are visibly active in the world while there's no sign of God. The widely-believed explanation at the beginning of the series is that God and the Devil made an agreement to avoid overt interference in the affairs of humanity, and only God kept his word. Later, a plot point. character speculates that God is just a lot more subtle than the Devil. The sixth book gives a definite answer: [[spoiler:God has lost interest in the world, and [[TheGodsMustBeLazy spends all his time sitting around admiring how awesome he is]]]]. And in the seventh book, [[spoiler: God [[spoiler:God is essentially fired and His position is filled by someone who'll actually ''do'' good instead of [[TheGodsMustBeLazy sitting around admiring how awesome they are]].]]good]].
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.DevilButNoGod