History Main / DemocracyIsBad

8th Aug '17 9:01:36 AM Divra
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*** More specifically, the book attempts to make the case for a kind of selective democracy where anyone can vote, but may only do so by first proving they are socially responsible - i.e. by becoming a veteran. Crucially the book makes it clear that the armed forces have no choice but to take anyone who signs up. As long as they can pass the entrance exam, a place must be found for them somewhere in the various armed forces to allow them to prove they are socially responsible and thus can vote. When later questioned if other ways to earn the vote were available or if it was strictly veterans who should be able to vote, Heinlein made it clear that while the book didn't show it, he did believe there should be other non-combat careers or efforts able to demonstrate the social responsibility required to vote.

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*** More specifically, the book attempts to make the case for a kind of selective democracy where anyone can vote, but may only do so by first proving they are socially responsible - i.e. by becoming a veteran. Crucially the book makes it clear that the armed forces have no choice but to take anyone who signs up. As long as they can pass are capable of understanding the entrance exam, oath of service, a place must be found for them somewhere in the various armed forces to allow them to prove they are socially responsible and thus can vote. When later questioned if other ways to earn the vote were available or if it was strictly veterans who should be able to vote, Heinlein made it clear that while the book didn't show it, he did believe there should be other non-combat careers or efforts able to demonstrate the social responsibility required to vote.
22nd Jul '17 5:07:44 AM Grudgeal
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Added DiffLines:

** Trunicht himself holds this viewpoint InUniverse, pointing out that any system [[AtLeastIAdmitIt that would put him in charge]] can't be as good as all that.
12th Jul '17 9:33:31 AM Derkhan
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* The official narrative of the Imperium in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer40000}}''. While some planetary governments practice democracy to some degree, the threat of Chaos is believed to be so great that the people should not be allowed to decide for themselves, and they should be under the constant watch of the Imperial Inquisition.
** They had democracy and it didn't end well. Crapsack world indeed.
** Large scale democracy is physically impossible for the Imperium. Travel and communication are so slow and unreliable that they have only a vague idea how many member worlds they even have, much less trying to organize a vote.

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* The official narrative of the Imperium in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer40000}}''. While some planetary governments practice democracy to some degree, the threat of Chaos is believed to be so great that the people should not be allowed to decide for themselves, and they should be under the constant watch of the Imperial Inquisition.
** They had democracy and it didn't end well. Crapsack world indeed.
** Large scale
Inquisition. Additionally, large-scale democracy is physically impossible for the Imperium. Travel and communication are so slow and unreliable that they have only a vague idea how many member worlds they even have, much less trying to organize a vote.
13th May '17 6:15:16 PM nombretomado
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* In ''Franchise/StarCraft'' the Terran Confederacy was corrupt and oppressive, in the backstory they nuked a planet that attempted to secede and in the first game they attempted to weaponize the Zerg to take out rebellions with plausible deniability. Granted, Arcturus Mengsk is at least as bad when he takes out the Confederacy and sets himself up as Emperor of the Terran Dominion, but [[spoiler: his son Valerian at least claims to end the tyrannical oppression when he ascends to the throne by replacing all the corrupt officials to make sure the people have a voice.]]

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* In ''Franchise/StarCraft'' ''VideoGame/StarCraft'' the Terran Confederacy was corrupt and oppressive, in the backstory they nuked a planet that attempted to secede and in the first game they attempted to weaponize the Zerg to take out rebellions with plausible deniability. Granted, Arcturus Mengsk is at least as bad when he takes out the Confederacy and sets himself up as Emperor of the Terran Dominion, but [[spoiler: his son Valerian at least claims to end the tyrannical oppression when he ascends to the throne by replacing all the corrupt officials to make sure the people have a voice.]]
9th May '17 7:55:37 PM TheRoguePenguin
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** Vault 11 doesn't help democracy's case either. [[spoiler:The computer running the Vault demanded the sacrifice of the Overseer every year or else it exterminate the entire Vault population]]. The citizens of the Vault decided to make elections to decide who was going to [[spoiler:be sacrificed]], leading to hilarious 1950's campaign posters with stuff like "Haley is a known adulterer and Communist sympathiser! Vote for Haley!" To make this even worse, [[spoiler:a group of people formed a corrupt "tyranny of the majority" and found a way to rig the vote system, so they could effectively choose who to be sacrificed and would never be sacrificed themselves. This changed when an enemy of theirs started murdering party members, getting them to vote her as the Overseer, and then using her powers as Overseer to get rid of the voting system and replace it with the sacrifice being picked at random by the computer. With their power gone, the corrupt party got majorly pissed off and a civil war broke out which led to the deaths of nearly everyone in the Vault. Oh, and it turns out the computer was [[ILied absolutely lying]]: it would've actually ''rewarded'' them if they didn't sacrifice anyone.]]

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** Vault 11 doesn't help democracy's case either. [[spoiler:The computer running the Vault demanded the sacrifice of a member of the Overseer Vault every year or else it exterminate the entire Vault population]]. The citizens of the Vault decided to make the Overseer, who knew about it, double as the [[spoiler:sacrifice]]. This lead to elections to decide who was going to [[spoiler:be sacrificed]], leading to hilarious 1950's campaign posters with stuff like "Haley is a known adulterer and Communist sympathiser! Vote for Haley!" To make this even worse, [[spoiler:a group of people formed a corrupt "tyranny of the majority" and found a way to rig the vote system, so they could effectively choose who to be sacrificed and would never be sacrificed themselves. This changed when an enemy of theirs started murdering party members, getting them to vote her as the Overseer, and then using her powers as Overseer to get rid of the voting system and replace it with the sacrifice being picked at random by the computer. With their power gone, the corrupt party got majorly pissed off and a civil war broke out which led to the deaths of nearly everyone in the Vault. Oh, and it turns out the computer was [[ILied absolutely lying]]: it would've actually ''rewarded'' them if they didn't sacrifice anyone.]]
24th Apr '17 5:04:11 PM Fireblood
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** The "Bart's Comet" episode also happens to feature an example when Ned Flanders lets everybody in town into his fallout shelter, only for them to ''vote him out'' when they end up with just one too many people to get the door closed. So they only guy in town smart enough to build a shelter, who is also generous enough to open it up to all the other people, is rewarded by the public voting to send him to his doom.

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** The "Bart's Comet" episode also happens to feature an example when Ned Flanders lets everybody in town into his fallout shelter, only for them to ''vote him out'' when they end up with just one too many people to get the door closed. So they only guy in town smart enough to build a shelter, who is also generous enough to open it up to all the other people, is rewarded by the public voting to send him to his doom. They do cave in and join him after he graciously accepts this however.
22nd Apr '17 4:37:40 PM nombretomado
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* Addressed in-story in ''SuikodenII''. [[spoiler:Jowy's]] FaceHeelTurn is provoked by observing how the democratic City-States are paralyzed by bickering in the face of crisis. Though the city-states do end up winning the war... but only because Riou, TheHero, stood up for the city-states, set straight the bickering leaders of the States (Teresa, Makai, Gustav, and eventually Jess) by helping them if they're not dead yet (or just plain jackass or evil to be appealed, like Gorudo). By the end of the game, the city-states are purged of the bad parts of the democracy that it does have a shot to be better.

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* Addressed in-story in ''SuikodenII''.''VideoGame/SuikodenII''. [[spoiler:Jowy's]] FaceHeelTurn is provoked by observing how the democratic City-States are paralyzed by bickering in the face of crisis. Though the city-states do end up winning the war... but only because Riou, TheHero, stood up for the city-states, set straight the bickering leaders of the States (Teresa, Makai, Gustav, and eventually Jess) by helping them if they're not dead yet (or just plain jackass or evil to be appealed, like Gorudo). By the end of the game, the city-states are purged of the bad parts of the democracy that it does have a shot to be better.
10th Apr '17 1:40:01 PM Kalaong
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** Judging by Spider Jerusalem's diatribes, it's not democracy that's bad, but mindless belief in the authority. Most of his victories are examples of democracy working as it was intended and he mostly just kicks, prods and curses the people into using it. So the trope is averted if not subverted outright.

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** Judging by Spider Jerusalem's diatribes, it's not democracy that's bad, but mindless belief in the authority. Most of his victories are examples of democracy working as it was intended and intended; the catch is that it only happens when he mostly just kicks, prods and curses the people into using it. So the trope is averted if not subverted outright.it - and ''after'' he's been [[PoliceBrutality mauled by cops]] and/or had [[HumiliationConga his life systematically ruined by politicians]]. Basically, Spider says "Democracy Is Bad - ''[[DareToBeBadass But It Shouldn't Be]].''"
22nd Mar '17 12:10:35 PM Medinoc
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* The [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbard-Satterthwaite_theorem Gibbard–Satterthwaite theorem]] proves that there is no voting system whatsoever which does not have at least one of the following undesirable properties if more than two candidates or positions are competing against each other:

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* The [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbard-Satterthwaite_theorem Gibbard–Satterthwaite theorem]] (based on the previous) proves that there is no voting system whatsoever which does not have at least one of the following undesirable properties if more than two candidates or positions are competing against each other:
22nd Mar '17 10:45:40 AM Medinoc
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---> "He introduced democracy to the city, and the people voted against it."\

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---> "He introduced democracy to the city, and the people voted against it."\"
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.DemocracyIsBad