History Main / DebateAndSwitch

25th Jun '17 9:42:52 PM WildeOscar
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* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': The episode "Dax". The titular character, a symbiont who lives inside of a Trill host, is accused of committing a crime. However, the crime in question was allegedly committed when the symbiont was bonded to Curzan, and it has since been passed to Jadzia. Since there is no way to remove the symbiont from Jadzia without killing her, the case becomes a question of whether or not it is right to punish Jadzia Dax for a crime committed by Curzan Dax. Both sides make strong points... Which are all rendered moot by the last minute revelation that Curzon didn't commit the crime in question, as he had an alibi that Jadzia wasn't willing to bring up (he was in bed with the victim's wife). The issue of whether or not Trill symbionts can be held accountable for their past host's actions is ultimately never resolved.

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* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': The episode "Dax". The titular character, a symbiont who lives inside of a Trill host, is accused of committing a crime. However, the crime in question was allegedly committed when the symbiont was bonded to Curzan, and it has since been passed to Jadzia. Since there is no way to remove the symbiont from Jadzia without killing her, the case becomes a question of whether or not it is right to punish Jadzia Dax for a crime committed by Curzan Dax. Both sides make strong points... Which are all rendered moot by the last minute revelation that Curzon didn't commit the crime in question, as he had an alibi that Jadzia wasn't willing to bring up (he was in bed with the victim's wife). The issue of whether or not Trill symbionts can be held accountable for their past host's actions is ultimately never resolved. It doesn't help that several episodes have been contradictory about the nature of Trill personalities and whether they have more than one in the same body.
1st Jun '17 3:34:44 AM WanderingBrowser
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*** It bears mentioning that most of the fandom found this utterly ridiculous, pointing out that even if "The League having no restraints could be dangerous" is a valid point, Cadmus was ''still'' the bad guy faction by virtue of their actions -- a "heroic" faction would not have done something like create a Supergirl clone for use as their own private meta-powerful assassin, [[UnintentionallyUnsympathetic no matter what the creators think]].
14th May '17 8:58:22 PM nombretomado
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* {{Trigun}}

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* {{Trigun}} ''Manga/{{Trigun}}'':
14th May '17 2:18:21 AM ClatoLawa
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* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': The episode "Dax". The titular character, a symbiont who lives inside of a Trill host, is accused of committing a crime. However, the crime in question was allegedly committed when the symbiont was bonded to Curzan, and it has since been passed to Jadzia. Since there is no way to remove the symbiont from Jadzia without killing her, the case becomes a question of whether or not it is right to punish Jadzia Dax for a crime committed by Curzan Dax. Both sides make strong points... Which are all rendered moot by the last minute revelation that Curzon didn't commit the crime in question. The issue of whether or not Trill symbionts can be held accountable for their past host's actions is ultimately never resolved.

to:

* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': The episode "Dax". The titular character, a symbiont who lives inside of a Trill host, is accused of committing a crime. However, the crime in question was allegedly committed when the symbiont was bonded to Curzan, and it has since been passed to Jadzia. Since there is no way to remove the symbiont from Jadzia without killing her, the case becomes a question of whether or not it is right to punish Jadzia Dax for a crime committed by Curzan Dax. Both sides make strong points... Which are all rendered moot by the last minute revelation that Curzon didn't commit the crime in question.question, as he had an alibi that Jadzia wasn't willing to bring up (he was in bed with the victim's wife). The issue of whether or not Trill symbionts can be held accountable for their past host's actions is ultimately never resolved.
10th May '17 9:29:00 AM tromag
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** The Seska arc introduces a wildly complicated question when Seska reveals that she forcibly stole Chakotay's DNA and impregnanted herself with it, and later begs for his help when she and his son are in danger. How he's supposed to respond to that is agonizingly difficult. To the show's credit, they do spend a good deal of time dealing with these questions, but they're ultimately rendered moot when it turns out that the child isn't actually Chakotay's after all. Seska dies, the baby's biological father claims him, and [[StatusQuoIsGod everything goes back to normal]].
10th May '17 4:13:27 AM akylae
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* ''Captain America: Civil War'' - Peacekeepers must have permission to operate, and must answer for their actions, but they must also refuse illegal orders. Should Avengers submit to the UN or not? Never mind, Bucky was framed for murder.
24th Mar '17 5:42:34 AM Argon2
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* In ''ComicBook/InhumansVsXmen'', the leader of the people being gassed to death by a chemical weapon Black Bolt released conveniently goes totally psycho at the last minute, meaning that Bolt and Medusa's victory over her [[note]]and their making a trophy out of her [[ItMakesSenseInContext diamond tears]][[/note]] is...fittingly?...heroic and triumphant. That was the writers' ''[[DesignatedHero intention]]'', at least.
11th Mar '17 12:31:07 PM MyFinalEdits
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** Well, that isn't exactly a very good example, after all, the morality of whether or not to stop [[spoiler:Chao Lingshen's]] plot is resolved. They decide that since the plan would require the suffering of completely innocent people for it to happen, it must be stopped. A much better example would be [[spoiler:Fate's EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory plot, which Negi already has planned that will postpone the annihilation of the magic world.]]



** Speaking of the third movie, this is also done with the debate about using the mutant "cure" versus protesting it. Plenty of mutants are shown benefiting from the cure, while just as many find the idea insulting. There are allies of the X-men who speak in favor of it and there are mutants opposed to it who form nice, organized meetings to figure out how to get their views heard. And then Magneto shows up and the rest of the movie has him and his violent followers as the main mutants protesting the cure. Also, he destroys the facility producing the cure and the mutant behind it is taken away. [[spoiler:And the very end of the movie heavily implies the cure isn't permanent, so the point is moot.]]

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** Speaking of In the third movie, this is also done with the debate about using the mutant "cure" versus protesting it. Plenty of mutants are shown benefiting from the cure, while just as many find the idea insulting. There are allies of the X-men who speak in favor of it and there are mutants opposed to it who form nice, organized meetings to figure out how to get their views heard. And then Magneto shows up and the rest of the movie has him and his violent followers as the main mutants protesting the cure. Also, he destroys the facility producing the cure and the mutant behind it is taken away. [[spoiler:And the very end of the movie heavily implies the cure isn't permanent, so the point is moot.]]
11th Mar '17 7:46:27 AM KingLyger
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* In ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney: Justice for All'', Phoenix must make a decision at the end of the last trial: [[spoiler:whether his client is innocent or guilty. He really is guilty, but pleading for a guilty verdict would mean that his sidekick Maya would be killed by the defendant's partner, who kidnapped her to get Phoenix to defend the asshole in the first place. The player even gets the chance to decide the verdict, but no matter what you choose -- Franziska von Karma enters the courtroom before Phoenix has a chance to say aloud your choice and offers a SmokingGun. After using said object, it's clear to the court that your client is guilty, but you get to choose again the verdict. It doesn't matter once again, as the defendant will just plead guilty so he goes to jail and his betrayed partner can't kill him]]. After the trial, though, Mia tells Phoenix that whatever he (the player) chose before the SmokingGun arrived was what defined him as a lawyer. So, in a sense, the player can model Phoenix's code of ethics.

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* In ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney: Justice for All'', Phoenix must make a decision at the end of the last trial: [[spoiler:whether his client Matt Engarde is innocent or guilty. He Engarde really is guilty, but Phoenix pleading for a guilty verdict would mean that his sidekick Maya would be killed by the defendant's Engarde's partner, who kidnapped her to get Phoenix to defend the asshole in the first place. However, saying Engarde is innocent would get Maya back, but an unrepentant monster would get away with murder. The player even gets the chance to decide the verdict, but no matter what you choose -- choose, Franziska von Karma enters the courtroom before Phoenix has a chance to say aloud your choice and offers a SmokingGun. After using said object, it's clear to the court that your client is guilty, but you get to choose again the verdict. It doesn't matter once again, as the defendant Engarde will just plead guilty so he goes to jail and his betrayed partner can't kill him]]. After the trial, though, Mia tells Phoenix that whatever he (the player) chose before the SmokingGun arrived was what defined him as a lawyer. So, in a sense, the player can model Phoenix's code of ethics.
9th Mar '17 3:36:54 PM rjd1922
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* Averted in VideoGame/DragonAgeII - no matter what stance you take in the overarching Mage vs Templar plot points, even a [[TakeAThirdOption neutral]] Hawke has to [[MortonsFork pick a side]] once [[spoiler: Anders [[NukeEm blows up]] the Chantry]], who, whilst governing both sides contains one of the few {{Reasonable Authority Figure}}s in the game. There is absolutely no way to avoid this.

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* Averted in VideoGame/DragonAgeII ''VideoGame/DragonAgeII'' - no matter what stance you take in the overarching Mage vs Templar plot points, even a [[TakeAThirdOption neutral]] Hawke has to [[MortonsFork pick a side]] once [[spoiler: Anders [[NukeEm blows up]] the Chantry]], who, whilst governing both sides contains one of the few {{Reasonable Authority Figure}}s in the game. There is absolutely no way to avoid this.
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