History Main / DebateAndSwitch

24th Mar '17 5:42:34 AM Argon2
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* In ''ComicBook/InhumansVsXmen'', the leader of the people being gassed to death by a chemical weapon Black Bolt released conveniently goes totally psycho at the last minute, meaning that Bolt and Medusa's victory over her [[note]]and their making a trophy out of her [[ItMakesSenseInContext diamond tears]][[/note]] is...fittingly?...heroic and triumphant. That was the writers' ''[[DesignatedHero intention]]'', at least.
11th Mar '17 12:31:07 PM MyFinalEdits
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** Well, that isn't exactly a very good example, after all, the morality of whether or not to stop [[spoiler:Chao Lingshen's]] plot is resolved. They decide that since the plan would require the suffering of completely innocent people for it to happen, it must be stopped. A much better example would be [[spoiler:Fate's EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory plot, which Negi already has planned that will postpone the annihilation of the magic world.]]



** Speaking of the third movie, this is also done with the debate about using the mutant "cure" versus protesting it. Plenty of mutants are shown benefiting from the cure, while just as many find the idea insulting. There are allies of the X-men who speak in favor of it and there are mutants opposed to it who form nice, organized meetings to figure out how to get their views heard. And then Magneto shows up and the rest of the movie has him and his violent followers as the main mutants protesting the cure. Also, he destroys the facility producing the cure and the mutant behind it is taken away. [[spoiler:And the very end of the movie heavily implies the cure isn't permanent, so the point is moot.]]

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** Speaking of In the third movie, this is also done with the debate about using the mutant "cure" versus protesting it. Plenty of mutants are shown benefiting from the cure, while just as many find the idea insulting. There are allies of the X-men who speak in favor of it and there are mutants opposed to it who form nice, organized meetings to figure out how to get their views heard. And then Magneto shows up and the rest of the movie has him and his violent followers as the main mutants protesting the cure. Also, he destroys the facility producing the cure and the mutant behind it is taken away. [[spoiler:And the very end of the movie heavily implies the cure isn't permanent, so the point is moot.]]
11th Mar '17 7:46:27 AM KingLyger
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* In ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney: Justice for All'', Phoenix must make a decision at the end of the last trial: [[spoiler:whether his client is innocent or guilty. He really is guilty, but pleading for a guilty verdict would mean that his sidekick Maya would be killed by the defendant's partner, who kidnapped her to get Phoenix to defend the asshole in the first place. The player even gets the chance to decide the verdict, but no matter what you choose -- Franziska von Karma enters the courtroom before Phoenix has a chance to say aloud your choice and offers a SmokingGun. After using said object, it's clear to the court that your client is guilty, but you get to choose again the verdict. It doesn't matter once again, as the defendant will just plead guilty so he goes to jail and his betrayed partner can't kill him]]. After the trial, though, Mia tells Phoenix that whatever he (the player) chose before the SmokingGun arrived was what defined him as a lawyer. So, in a sense, the player can model Phoenix's code of ethics.

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* In ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney: Justice for All'', Phoenix must make a decision at the end of the last trial: [[spoiler:whether his client Matt Engarde is innocent or guilty. He Engarde really is guilty, but Phoenix pleading for a guilty verdict would mean that his sidekick Maya would be killed by the defendant's Engarde's partner, who kidnapped her to get Phoenix to defend the asshole in the first place. However, saying Engarde is innocent would get Maya back, but an unrepentant monster would get away with murder. The player even gets the chance to decide the verdict, but no matter what you choose -- choose, Franziska von Karma enters the courtroom before Phoenix has a chance to say aloud your choice and offers a SmokingGun. After using said object, it's clear to the court that your client is guilty, but you get to choose again the verdict. It doesn't matter once again, as the defendant Engarde will just plead guilty so he goes to jail and his betrayed partner can't kill him]]. After the trial, though, Mia tells Phoenix that whatever he (the player) chose before the SmokingGun arrived was what defined him as a lawyer. So, in a sense, the player can model Phoenix's code of ethics.
9th Mar '17 3:36:54 PM rjd1922
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* Averted in VideoGame/DragonAgeII - no matter what stance you take in the overarching Mage vs Templar plot points, even a [[TakeAThirdOption neutral]] Hawke has to [[MortonsFork pick a side]] once [[spoiler: Anders [[NukeEm blows up]] the Chantry]], who, whilst governing both sides contains one of the few {{Reasonable Authority Figure}}s in the game. There is absolutely no way to avoid this.

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* Averted in VideoGame/DragonAgeII ''VideoGame/DragonAgeII'' - no matter what stance you take in the overarching Mage vs Templar plot points, even a [[TakeAThirdOption neutral]] Hawke has to [[MortonsFork pick a side]] once [[spoiler: Anders [[NukeEm blows up]] the Chantry]], who, whilst governing both sides contains one of the few {{Reasonable Authority Figure}}s in the game. There is absolutely no way to avoid this.
7th Feb '17 2:49:46 PM KingZeal
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* Defied in ''ComicBook/{{Champions 2016}}'' issue 5. The Champions encounter a small town whose influential sheriff is a majorly bigoted man. [[ComicBook/TheUnbelievableGwenpool Gwenpool]] drops in and causes her usual brand of chaos against the police. The team pulls her away and hits her with a WhatTheHellHero. She explains that she's more than certain that the town is being hit with some sort of super villain action; there's no way that anyone could be so bigoted because it's a comic book! [[ComicBook/MsMarvel2014 Kamala Khan]] explains that things aren't so black and white and normal people can be evil without the aid of supervillains. [[spoiler:Indeed, the man is heavily bigoted and is only brought down when [[TheDogBitesBack his beleaguered deputy finally blows the whistle on him]].]]

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* Defied in ''ComicBook/{{Champions 2016}}'' issue 5. The Champions encounter a small town whose influential sheriff is a majorly bigoted man. [[ComicBook/TheUnbelievableGwenpool Gwenpool]] drops in and causes her usual brand of chaos against the police. The team pulls her away and hits her with a WhatTheHellHero. She explains that she's more than certain that the town is being hit with some sort type of super villain action; supervillain is masterminding this; there's no way that anyone normal people could be so bigoted because [[MediumAwareness it's a comic book! book!]] [[ComicBook/MsMarvel2014 Kamala Khan]] explains that things aren't so black and white white, and that normal people can be evil without the aid of supervillains. [[spoiler:Indeed, the man is heavily bigoted and is only brought down when [[TheDogBitesBack his beleaguered deputy finally blows the whistle on him]].]]
7th Feb '17 1:51:09 PM Gosicrystal
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[[folder:Visual Novels]]
* In ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorney: Justice for All'', Phoenix must make a decision at the end of the last trial: [[spoiler:whether his client is innocent or guilty. He really is guilty, but pleading for a guilty verdict would mean that his sidekick Maya would be killed by the defendant's partner, who kidnapped her to get Phoenix to defend the asshole in the first place. The player even gets the chance to decide the verdict, but no matter what you choose -- Franziska von Karma enters the courtroom before Phoenix has a chance to say aloud your choice and offers a SmokingGun. After using said object, it's clear to the court that your client is guilty, but you get to choose again the verdict. It doesn't matter once again, as the defendant will just plead guilty so he goes to jail and his betrayed partner can't kill him]]. After the trial, though, Mia tells Phoenix that whatever he (the player) chose before the SmokingGun arrived was what defined him as a lawyer. So, in a sense, the player can model Phoenix's code of ethics.
[[/folder]]
1st Feb '17 3:16:28 PM Blazer
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* Defied in ''ComicBook/{{Champions 2016}}'' issue 5. The Champions encounter a small town whose influential sheriff is a majorly bigoted man. [[ComicBook/TheUnbelievableGwenpool Gwenpool]] drops in and causes her usual brand of chaos against the police. The team pulls her away and hits her with a WhatTheHellHero. She explains that she's more than certain that the town is being hit with some sort of super villain action; there's no way that anyone could be so bigoted because it's a comic book! [[ComicBook/MsMarvel2014 Kamala Khan]] explains that things aren't so black and white and normal people can be evil without the aid of supervillains. [[spoiler:Indeed, the man is heavily bigoted and is only brought down when [[TheDogBitesBack his beleaguered deputy finally blows the whistle on him]].]]
27th Nov '16 1:32:37 AM Gravityman
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* ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' made a major plot point being the villain's plan to lock everyone in the world into their own personal dream world that would give them their every desire. Whether or not this would ultimately be a good thing for a world that raises child soldiers is glossed over in favor of discussing how villainous the means of the people trying to set it off are using. Later on it's also added that the plan also slowly turns people into empty zombies, making the initial debate further removed by having the dream world be fatal. Likewise, once people are released their reactions are glossed over and no one expresses any interest at all over their dream worlds despite how easily traumatic it would be for many of them to see lost loved ones again thinking they were real.

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* ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' made a major plot point being the villain's plan to lock everyone in the world into [[LotusEaterMachine their own personal dream world that would give them their every desire.desire]]. Whether or not this would ultimately be a good thing for a world that raises child soldiers is glossed over in favor of discussing how villainous the means of the people trying to set it off are using. Later on it's also added that the plan also slowly turns people into empty zombies, making the initial debate further removed by having the dream world be fatal. Likewise, once people are released their reactions are glossed over and no one expresses any interest at all over their dream worlds despite how easily traumatic it would be for many of them to see lost loved ones again thinking they were real.
31st Oct '16 5:19:40 AM Morgenthaler
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[[folder:Live Action TV]]

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[[folder:Live Action [[folder:Live-Action TV]]
26th Oct '16 7:19:38 AM Nakuyabi
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** "Rascals" had a subplot involving Miles and Keiko O'Brien's marriage being endangered by her having been reduced to a prepubescent girl by the NegativeSpaceWedgie of the week. He equivocates quite a bit when she reminds him that they're married and then asks him point-blank whether his discomfort over her shows of affection as a little girl means the end of their marriage. [[FridgeHorror That's a terribly good question, come to think of it]]... and one that Miles mercifully never has to answer since StatusQuoIsGod and child actors cost too much to be on ''Star Trek'' as anything other than guest stars. Another question they're also spared answering: what to tell their daughter Molly, who [[IWantMyMommy wants her mommy]] and doesn't understand that (approximately) twelve-year-old Keiko is still the same Keiko who gave birth to her.

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** "Rascals" "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS6E7Rascals Rascals]]" had a subplot involving Miles and Keiko O'Brien's marriage being endangered by her having been reduced to a prepubescent girl by the NegativeSpaceWedgie of the week. He equivocates quite a bit when she reminds him that they're married and then asks him point-blank whether his discomfort over her shows of affection as a little girl means the end of their marriage. [[FridgeHorror That's a terribly good question, come to think of it]]... and one that Miles mercifully never has to answer since StatusQuoIsGod and child actors cost too much to be on ''Star Trek'' as anything other than guest stars. Another question they're also spared answering: what to tell their daughter Molly, who [[IWantMyMommy wants her mommy]] and doesn't understand that (approximately) twelve-year-old Keiko is still the same Keiko who gave birth to her.
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