History Main / DebateAndSwitch

27th Nov '16 1:32:37 AM Gravityman
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* ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' made a major plot point being the villain's plan to lock everyone in the world into their own personal dream world that would give them their every desire. Whether or not this would ultimately be a good thing for a world that raises child soldiers is glossed over in favor of discussing how villainous the means of the people trying to set it off are using. Later on it's also added that the plan also slowly turns people into empty zombies, making the initial debate further removed by having the dream world be fatal. Likewise, once people are released their reactions are glossed over and no one expresses any interest at all over their dream worlds despite how easily traumatic it would be for many of them to see lost loved ones again thinking they were real.

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* ''Manga/{{Naruto}}'' made a major plot point being the villain's plan to lock everyone in the world into [[LotusEaterMachine their own personal dream world that would give them their every desire.desire]]. Whether or not this would ultimately be a good thing for a world that raises child soldiers is glossed over in favor of discussing how villainous the means of the people trying to set it off are using. Later on it's also added that the plan also slowly turns people into empty zombies, making the initial debate further removed by having the dream world be fatal. Likewise, once people are released their reactions are glossed over and no one expresses any interest at all over their dream worlds despite how easily traumatic it would be for many of them to see lost loved ones again thinking they were real.
31st Oct '16 5:19:40 AM Morgenthaler
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[[folder:Live Action TV]]

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[[folder:Live Action [[folder:Live-Action TV]]
26th Oct '16 7:19:38 AM Nakuyabi
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** "Rascals" had a subplot involving Miles and Keiko O'Brien's marriage being endangered by her having been reduced to a prepubescent girl by the NegativeSpaceWedgie of the week. He equivocates quite a bit when she reminds him that they're married and then asks him point-blank whether his discomfort over her shows of affection as a little girl means the end of their marriage. [[FridgeHorror That's a terribly good question, come to think of it]]... and one that Miles mercifully never has to answer since StatusQuoIsGod and child actors cost too much to be on ''Star Trek'' as anything other than guest stars. Another question they're also spared answering: what to tell their daughter Molly, who [[IWantMyMommy wants her mommy]] and doesn't understand that (approximately) twelve-year-old Keiko is still the same Keiko who gave birth to her.

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** "Rascals" "[[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS6E7Rascals Rascals]]" had a subplot involving Miles and Keiko O'Brien's marriage being endangered by her having been reduced to a prepubescent girl by the NegativeSpaceWedgie of the week. He equivocates quite a bit when she reminds him that they're married and then asks him point-blank whether his discomfort over her shows of affection as a little girl means the end of their marriage. [[FridgeHorror That's a terribly good question, come to think of it]]... and one that Miles mercifully never has to answer since StatusQuoIsGod and child actors cost too much to be on ''Star Trek'' as anything other than guest stars. Another question they're also spared answering: what to tell their daughter Molly, who [[IWantMyMommy wants her mommy]] and doesn't understand that (approximately) twelve-year-old Keiko is still the same Keiko who gave birth to her.
30th Sep '16 6:21:46 PM Nakuyabi
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* ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'':
** The episode "Dear Doctor", the switch was an even ''bigger'' moral decision. Initially it's about whether to interfere in the natural arrangement of a pre-warp society (a stone-age species is kept in benign slavery by a more advanced one), but then it suddenly turns out that the disease that's been spreading among the dominant species (and for which the crew was helping to find a cure) is a "natural development" of their evolution (which may well "solve" the problem of the stone-age species' subjugation by killing their caretakers). So naturally, the crew decide to give them relief of the symptoms rather than a cure, in a proto-development of the [[AlienNonInterferenceClause Prime Directive]] (its most appalling application in the entire history of the series, which is ironic as it was intended as a justification for it). And then people wondered why the ''Franchise/StarTrek'' franchise took a breather.\\
\\
This was actually the result of ExecutiveMeddling; in the original script Phlox refused a direct order from Archer to give the species in question the cure he had developed. The higher-ups were worried that a major conflict between the characters might upset the audience, so Archer's decision was changed at the last minute to agree with Phlox. Unfortunately this had the opposite effect as viewers began calling ProtagonistCenteredMorality.
** A better usage was in the episode "Affliction" in which Phlox and the Klingon Doctor Antaak have been tasked with finding a cure for the Klingon Augment Virus which is threatening to wipe out the entire Klingon Empire. Dismayed to see Antaak preparing to euthanize one of the infected test subjects with a lethal injection, Phlox interrupts him and an argument breaks out between them as Antaak insists that giving one's life to save millions is a most honorable way for a Klingon to die while Phlox contends that such a killing is ethically unthinkable. While they're arguing, their boss General K'Vagh pulls his disruptor, calmly shoots the victim, and tells them "Proceed."
* ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'':
** The episode "Haven" begins with Deanna Troi facing an arranged marriage. The episode is one extended debate over personal choice vs. cultural expectation which is soundly side-stepped by the plague ship from the B-plot suddenly having aboard it the woman of Troi's fiance's dreams (literally; he's been dreaming of her all his life).
** "Rascals" had a subplot involving Miles and Keiko O'Brien's marriage being endangered by her having been reduced to a prepubescent girl by the NegativeSpaceWedgie of the week. He equivocates quite a bit when she reminds him that they're married and then asks him point-blank whether his discomfort over her shows of affection as a little girl means the end of their marriage. [[FridgeHorror That's a terribly good question, come to think of it]]... and one that Miles mercifully never has to answer since StatusQuoIsGod and child actors cost too much to be on ''Star Trek'' as anything other than guest stars. Another question they're also spared answering: what to tell their daughter Molly, who [[IWantMyMommy wants her mommy]] and doesn't understand that (approximately) twelve-year-old Keiko is still the same Keiko who gave birth to her.
* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': The episode "Dax". The titular character, a symbiont who lives inside of a Trill host, is accused of committing a crime. However, the crime in question was allegedly committed when the symbiont was bonded to Curzan, and it has since been passed to Jadzia. Since there is no way to remove the symbiont from Jadzia without killing her, the case becomes a question of whether or not it is right to punish Jadzia Dax for a crime committed by Curzan Dax. Both sides make strong points... Which are all rendered moot by the last minute revelation that Curzon didn't commit the crime in question. The issue of whether or not Trill symbionts can be held accountable for their past host's actions is ultimately never resolved.



* In the ''Series/StarTrekTheNextGeneration'' episode "Haven", the episode begins with Deanna Troi facing an arranged marriage. The episode is one extended debate over personal choice vs. cultural expectation which is soundly side-stepped by the plague ship from the B-plot suddenly having aboard it the woman Troi's husband-to-be has dreamed of all his life (literally).
* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': The episode "Dax". The titular character, a symbiont who lives inside of a Trill host, is accused of committing a crime. However, the crime in question was allegedly committed when the symbiont was bonded to Curzan, and it has since been passed to Jadzia. Since there is no way to remove the symbiont from Jadzia without killing her, the case becomes a question of whether or not it is right to punish Jadzia Dax for a crime committed by Curzan Dax. Both sides make strong points... Which are all rendered moot by the last minute revelation that Curzan didn't commit the crime in question. The issue of whether or not Trill symbionts can be held accountable for their past host's actions is ultimately never resolved.



* ''Series/StarTrekEnterprise'':
** The episode "Dear Doctor", the switch was an even ''bigger'' moral decision. Initially it's about whether to interfere in the natural arrangement of a pre-warp society (a stone-age species is kept in benign slavery by a more advanced one), but then it suddenly turns out that the disease that's been spreading among the dominant species (and for which the crew was helping to find a cure) is a "natural development" of their evolution (which may well "solve" the problem of the stone-age species' subjugation by killing their caretakers). So naturally, the crew decide to give them relief of the symptoms rather than a cure, in a proto-development of the [[AlienNonInterferenceClause Prime Directive]] (its most appalling application in the entire history of the series, which is ironic as it was intended as a justification for it). And then people wondered why the ''Franchise/StarTrek'' franchise took a breather.\\
\\
This was actually the result of ExecutiveMeddling; in the original script Phlox refused a direct order from Archer to give the species in question the cure he had developed. The higher-ups were worried that a major conflict between the characters might upset the audience, so Archer's decision was changed at the last minute to agree with Phlox. Unfortunately this had the opposite effect as viewers began calling ProtagonistCenteredMorality.
** A better usage was in the episode "Affliction" in which Phlox and the Klingon Doctor Antaak have been tasked with finding a cure for the Klingon Augment Virus which is threatening to wipe out the entire Klingon Empire. Dismayed to see Antaak preparing to euthanize one of the infected test subjects with a lethal injection, Phlox interrupts him and an argument breaks out between them as Antaak insists that giving one's life to save millions is a most honorable way for a Klingon to die while Phlox contends that such a killing is ethically unthinkable. While they're arguing, their boss General K'Vagh pulls his disruptor, calmly shoots the victim, and tells them "Proceed."
12th Sep '16 11:22:04 AM Julia1984
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* Someone on either side is revealed to be lying about something (motive, true conditions, consequences, etc.), and lying automatically makes them the loser.
7th Sep '16 3:57:38 PM Give1Take2
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Added DiffLines:

** This trope is also played straight regarding Hawke's bickering mother and uncle. Leandra is furious that Gamlen didn't tell her he lost the family fortune, then used her new family's distress to sell her kids into indentured servitude to pay off his debts. Gamlen counters that she ''chose'' to leave the family fortune behind years ago, left Gamlen to take care of everything, turned up decades later only when she needed something, and is acting entitled and ungrateful for the help Gamlen ''could'' offer her. It raises interesting questions of how much Gamlen really owes her and how appreciative Leandra should be. Then Hawke finds out that Leandra's parents actually left her everything and Gamlen stole her inheritance, rendering his side of the argument completely moot.
23rd Aug '16 3:52:48 PM Kayube
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** The episode "Kill the Moon" has the reveal that the moon is actually an egg whose gigantic creature about to hatch. Clara, the Doctor and Captain Lundvik spend much of the episode debating whether or not they should destroy the creature to avoid destruction. They then decide to let the humanity decide. In the end, Clara overrules the vote of humanity, who choses to kill the creature, and let it born. The hatching of the moon [[NoEndorHolocaust causes no dammages]] and the baby immediatly [[StatusQuoIsGod lays another egg bigger than itself]].

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** The episode "Kill the Moon" has the reveal that the moon is actually an egg whose of a gigantic space creature that is about to hatch. Clara, the Doctor and Captain Lundvik spend much of the episode debating whether or not they should destroy the creature to avoid destruction. save the earth. They then decide to let the humanity decide. In While humanity votes to kill the end, creature, Clara overrules the vote of humanity, who choses to kill the creature, and let it born. on her own. The hatching of the moon [[NoEndorHolocaust causes no dammages]] damage]] and the baby immediatly immediately [[StatusQuoIsGod lays another egg bigger than itself]].
19th Aug '16 10:43:24 AM Chariset
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It avoids having to deliver a FamilyUnfriendlyAesop (who wants to be on record saying that theft might be okay if you're in dire straits?) And it lets creators flex their godlike muscles: it's their story, and they're not bound to send it toward the DownerEnding that would almost certainly result for the RealLife Alice and Bob.

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It avoids having to deliver a FamilyUnfriendlyAesop (who wants to be on record saying that theft might be okay if you're in dire straits?) And it lets creators [[OnlyTheAuthorCanSaveThemNow flex their godlike muscles: muscles]]: it's their story, and they're not bound they don't have to send it toward write the DownerEnding that would almost certainly result for the a RealLife Alice and Bob.
29th Jun '16 2:34:53 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''MySistersKeeper'' by Creator/JodiPicoult. The book asks the interesting question of whether or not it is wrong to have a child (Anna) solely to provide blood/tissue/organs for a sicker child (Kate), then gets out of answering by [[spoiler:killing Anna in a car accident and having her kidneys donated to Kate anyway. In the movie, however, this does not happen; after Anna wins, Kate dies. (And Kate actually staged a ThanatosGambit to be able to finish her suffering.)]]

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* ''MySistersKeeper'' ''Literature/MySistersKeeper'' by Creator/JodiPicoult. The book asks the interesting question of whether or not it is wrong to have a child (Anna) solely to provide blood/tissue/organs for a sicker child (Kate), then gets out of answering by [[spoiler:killing Anna in a car accident and having her kidneys donated to Kate anyway. In the movie, however, this does not happen; after Anna wins, Kate dies. (And Kate actually staged a ThanatosGambit to be able to finish her suffering.)]]



* Played for laughs in ''DirkGentlysHolisticDetectiveAgency'', when Dirk relates the tale of some physicists who attempted to carry out the SchrodingersCat experiment for real. When they opened the box, they discovered that the cat had got bored and wandered off somewhere.

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* Played for laughs in ''DirkGentlysHolisticDetectiveAgency'', ''Literature/DirkGentlysHolisticDetectiveAgency'', when Dirk relates the tale of some physicists who attempted to carry out the SchrodingersCat experiment for real. When they opened the box, they discovered that the cat had got bored and wandered off somewhere.
12th Jun '16 5:37:38 PM MrChips2301
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*** The Doctor does answer the dilemma [[spoiler: by refusing to use the Delta Wave]], he just gets a third option at the last second. This is emphasized by the how haunted he is by the decision he made the last time he faced this dilemma.]]

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*** The Doctor does answer the dilemma [[spoiler: by refusing to use the Delta Wave]], he just gets a third option at the last second. This is emphasized by the how [[spoiler:how haunted he is by the decision he made the last time he faced this dilemma.]]
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