History Main / ContinuitySnarl

3rd May '16 9:08:06 PM crazyrabbits
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* ContinuitySnarl/XMen



* In the process of creating prequels for the ''Film/XMen'' series, different creative teams have introduced a number of discrepancies in the franchise -- in fact, the only sign they're meant to be in the same continuity is the presence of Comicbook/{{Wolverine}} in all five films and the character of William Stryker. Almost all of the films have continuity snarls with other installments; most of the time it's a conflict between the movie trilogy and one of the other films.
** Emma Frost is introduced as a woman in her late 20's/early 30's in ''[[Film/XMenFirstClass First Class]]'' (which takes place in 1962), but is seen as a teenager in ''[[Film/XMenOriginsWolverine Origins]]'' (which chronologically happens 17 years later, during the Three Mile Island incident in 1979). However, with the release of ''[[Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast Days of Future Past]]'' it has become more plausible that First Class is merely the first part of a series continuity reboot to remove FanonDiscontinuity like Origins and ''[[Film/XMenTheLastStand Last Stand]]'' from canon. Aiding this theory is WordOfGod which has said that only X1 and X2 are confirmed to have happened the way they are portrayed while the details of everything else are still up in the air. Of course this creates its own problems...
*** This isn't the only problem with ages -- Comicbook/{{Cyclops}} is portrayed as a teenager in 1979 during Wolverine, but is portrayed as a man in his mid to late twenties in the original X-Men trilogy, which takes place 20 or so years later. James Marsden was 27 when he portrayed Cyclops in the original X-Men, about ten years too young.
** In ''X1'', Professor X claims he and SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} first met when the former was 17. ''First Class'' has their first meeting in 1962, but prior to this shows a younger Charles Xavier aged around eleven alive and well in 1944.
** Also in ''X1'', Professor claims that before they were X-Men, Cyclops, Jean, and ComicBook/{{Storm}} were some of his first students. The titular "First Class" of students from ''X-Men: First Class'' consists of an entirely different group of young mutants (Havok, Beast, and arguably Mystique, Darwin and Angel Salvadore), with the X-Men from the first film presumably not even joining the school until decades later.
** Admittedly, Cyclops was blindfolded whilst being rescued from the Island by Wolverine in ''Origins'', but it still seems unlikely that in ''X1'', he would have no idea whatsoever that he has met the man who once saved his life.
** The process by which Wolverine received his adamantium claws changes from film to film. In ''[[Film/XMen1 X1]]'', dialogue and x-rays show that he had mechanical pistons and claws grafted into his arms. ''{{Film/X2|XMenUnited}}'' hints that the adamantium was injected and shaped by doctors, and (in a flashback) Logan is seen fighting off several doctors who've been working on him before escaping the Alkali Lake facility covered in blood. In ''Origins'', the adamantium bonding process is hands-free, no doctors ever work on Logan, and the adamantium is grafted to his bone claws, something he wasn't mentioned as having in the following films. Additionally, the X-rays don't show the two giant holes he should have in his skull.
** Charles is paralyzed in ''[[Film/XMenFirstClass First Class]]'', but is seen as an older man walking around (with Magneto, no less) when they visit the young Jean Grey in ''[[Film/XMenTheLastStand The Last Stand]]'' and when he appears in ''Origins''. Hank [=McCoy=] becomes Beast in ''First Class'', but is shown on a television screen (in human form) in ''X2'', talking to Sebastian Shaw, who should be dead. Cerebro was built by the CIA in ''First Class'', but was apparently built by Xavier and Magneto in ''X1''. The discovery of the mutant gene is new (and eventually leads to America and Russia uniting to kill mutants) in 1962 in ''First Class'', but Congress is surprised and shocked by the existence of mutants in the "present day" of ''X1'', which happens 40 years later. ''Days of Future Past'' goes back to the flashbacks from ''X2''.
*** ''Days of Future Past'' provides an explanation for Beast - he has developed a drug which allows him to temporarily negate mutations. It also (for some reason) temporarily heals Charles' paralysis, but at the same time negates his mind-reading powers, yet is still shown to be fully able to both walk and read minds in ''The Last Stand''.
** Also in ''Wolverine'', Sabretooth never had his memory erased and should know his own brother. In X1, which was released first, it seems that Sabretooth does not know Logan, looks completely different, and is near-mute (though none of the Brotherhood is terribly talkative in ''X1''.) That surprised people -- Tyler Mane is contracted for two movies, and would not have changed much due to age. You'd have expected Sabretooth to be largely the same but with more lines instead of the totally different character we're given in "Wolverine." It isn't that implausible however that Sabretooth regressed between movies into a more feral state (such things happened in the comics numerous times).
** In ''First Class'', it is established that Mystique and Prof. X grew up together. Seems odd that she would be so casual about attempting to kill him in X1 and at no point did Charles express any real knowledge of her outside of being Magneto's lackey.
** ''First Class'' depicts Charles and Magneto briefly encountering Wolverine, which appears to contradict ''X1's'' assumption that this is their first time meeting him. While Wolverine not remembering them is {{handwave}}d by his memory loss in ''Origins'', it still doesn't explain why the other two don't seem to recognize him or mention that they've met before.
** In ''X1'', it is implied that Magneto built his own telepathy-blocking helmet and it was a new addition since Prof. X was surprised he had one. In ''First Class'', it was built by Sebastian Shaw and Prof. X had full knowledge of it.
** In ''X2'', Magneto claims that he and Prof. X built Cerebro together. In ''First Class'', we're told that Beast built it.
** Matthew Vaughn, director of ''First Class'', stated he tried to fit with only the trilogy instead of ''Wolverine''. Too bad Fox and the makers of said movie's Blu-Ray didn't listen, and the Cerebro bonus feature profiling most mutants try to put all 5 films in the same timeline (as mentioned above, Emma Frost is the most senseless).
** Vaughn also failed to make Beast fit into the continuity of the original trilogy. In order to make the ages work, Beast would have had to be 60 or so years old during the events of ''X-Men 3'' (Creator/KelseyGrammer was 51 during filming; meanwhile, ''X2'' Hank looks much younger. Fan theory about ''X2'' Beast tends to involve "image inducer" holograms like Nightcrawler once used.)
*** On the subject of ''First Class'' and age discrepancies, the film contains cameos from what appear to be adolescent versions of Cyclops and Storm. Not only would this push them into their 40's in the original trilogy, but is also blatantly contradicted by ''Film/XMenApocalypse'', which depicts the two as teenagers during the 1980's.
** In previous films it had been established that Logan had no memory of his past prior to 1979. So how, exactly, in ''Film/TheWolverine'' was he able to remember saving Yashida during World War II?
** Prior to the release of ''Film/XMenDaysOfFuturePast'', producer Lauren Donner Schuler went on record saying that the film made ''Origins'' and ''The Last Stand'' [[CanonDiscontinuity non-canon]]. However, ''Future Past'' still references Logan's memories (including scenes from ''Last Stand''), which doesn't answer why (up until the timeline changed) there was a Caucasian Bolivar Trask (played by PeterDinklage) in 1973, and an African-American Trask (played by Bill Duke) during the events of ''Last Stand''. One fan theory is that the later is the adopted son of the former, making him "Bolivar Trask Junior".
29th Apr '16 1:24:07 AM Kid
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** He managed to get a Continuity Snarl with two books. In the first book, the Scarecrow is OfferedTheCrown of the Emerald City-Glinda has the flying monkeys carry him back there so he can claim it. In the second book, when the Scarecrow goes back to Glinda for help regaining his crown, she tells him that he's not entitled to it, it's Ozma's.

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** He managed to get a Continuity Snarl with two books. In the first book, the Scarecrow is OfferedTheCrown of the Emerald City-Glinda City--Glinda has the flying monkeys carry him back there so he can claim it. In the second book, when the Scarecrow goes back to Glinda for help regaining his crown, she tells him that he's not entitled to it, it's Ozma's.
16th Apr '16 7:15:33 AM Morgenthaler
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* ''Film/ThePurge'' movies seem to be loose and highly inconsistent on their internal history, specifically when the annual Purge actually began.
** The first movie, set in 2022, suggests that the first [[ThePurge Purge]] occurred in 2017 during the opening credits. The sequel, ''Film/ThePurgeAnarchy'', takes place one year later in 2023 which marks the "'''6th''' Annual Purge", thus making the first one occur ''in 2018'' and also clearly establishes that the [[TheEmpire New Founding Fathers of America]] (NFFA) was voted into office in 2014. However, the third movie, ''The Purge: Election Year'', set in 2025, completely throws this timeline out of whack by saying the Purge as well as the NFFA, must've began sometime before 2010 since the main character survived a traumatic Purge night "15 years earlier".

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* ''Film/ThePurge'' movies seem to be loose and highly inconsistent on their internal history, specifically when the annual Purge actually began. \n** The first movie, set in 2022, suggests that the first [[ThePurge Purge]] occurred in 2017 during the opening credits. The sequel, ''Film/ThePurgeAnarchy'', takes place one year later in 2023 which marks the "'''6th''' Annual Purge", thus making the first one occur ''in 2018'' and also clearly establishes that the [[TheEmpire New Founding Fathers of America]] (NFFA) was voted into office in 2014. However, the third movie, ''The Purge: Election Year'', set in 2025, completely throws this timeline out of whack by saying the Purge as well as the NFFA, must've began sometime before 2010 since the main character survived a traumatic Purge night "15 years earlier".
12th Apr '16 2:59:34 PM KamenRiderOokalf
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** During Creator/GrantMorrison's run on the book, the X-Men travelled to China where a mutant named Xorn was held prisoner, released Xorn, and took him in as member of the team. Xorn turned out to be SelfDemonstraing/{{Magneto}} in disguise. The degree to which this made sense is debatable (since when does Magneto speak perfect Chinese? Why didn't ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} smell him?) but it was at least easy to follow so far. But then Magneto started doing drugs and herding people into ovens, and when Morrison left the book, the remaining X-Book writers couldn't retcon him as an impostor fast enough. So it was someone pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn. Then it turned out there was ''another'' Xorn, who was the brother of the fake Xorn. There's a reason they don't mention Xorn much these days.

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** During Creator/GrantMorrison's run on the book, the X-Men travelled to China where a mutant named Xorn was held prisoner, released Xorn, and took him in as member of the team. Xorn turned out to be SelfDemonstraing/{{Magneto}} SelfDemonstrating/{{Magneto}} in disguise. The degree to which this made sense is debatable (since when does Magneto speak perfect Chinese? Why didn't ComicBook/{{Wolverine}} smell him?) but it was at least easy to follow so far. But then Magneto started doing drugs and herding people into ovens, and when Morrison left the book, the remaining X-Book writers couldn't retcon him as an impostor fast enough. So it was someone pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn. Then it turned out there was ''another'' Xorn, who was the brother of the fake Xorn. There's a reason they don't mention Xorn much these days.
12th Apr '16 12:09:58 AM X2X
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** Yet another headscratcher concerning Scorpion occurs ''because of'' the above WordOfGod statement about Onaga's defeat in ''Deception''. After being thrown into Shang Tsung's Soulnado at the end of ''Deadly Alliance'' and whisked away to heaven, Scorpion made a deal with the Elder Gods: if he became their Champion and vanquished Onaga, they'd revive his dead Shirai Ryu clansmen. In ''Armageddon''[='s=] Konquest Mode, Taven runs into Scorpion, who is furious because the Elder Gods revived the Shirai Ryu as undead abominations. This would suggest they were being dicks who didn't uphold their end of the bargain when Scorpion delivered (as seen in his ''Deception'' ending), but ''that'' would go against Shunjiko (with some help from Nightwolf) being the one to take down Onaga in-canon.
* ''Franchise/StreetFighter'': In fairness, a lot of it is because 2 become an iconic landmark revolutionary sea-changing event of events which changed the universe forever and ever (to the point where pretty much everyone [[CapcomSequelStagnation got plain sick of it]]). If this weren't the case, Capcom ''probably'' would've just relished their success and quietly released Alpha as a fun, inconsequential one-off featuring the unselectable fighters in [[VideoGame/StreetFighter the first game]], then made a full break with ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterIII III]]''. As it is, ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterII II]]'' and its continuity has reached such an enormous Shuma-Gorathian level that it's ''dragged the rest of the ''Street Fighter'' universe into it''. Hence, ''VideoGame/StreetFighterIV''. With Makoto, Dudley, and Ibuki (and now Yun and Yang) at the same age and with the same motivations as in a game that canonically isn't supposed to happen for at least another three years. With a hopelessly convoluted plot involving M. Bison (who ''does'' die for real at some point, we just don't know ''when'') and a Korean hellion we've never even heard about before. With Adon seemingly stuck in the distant past. With Rose around for no apparent reason. Before, there would be retcons; now, Capcom [[TheyJustDidntCare isn't even trying to hash it out anymore]].

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** Yet another headscratcher concerning Scorpion occurs ''because of'' the above WordOfGod statement about Onaga's defeat in ''Deception''. After being thrown into Shang Tsung's Soulnado at the end of ''Deadly Alliance'' and whisked away to heaven, Scorpion made a deal with the Elder Gods: if he became their Champion and vanquished Onaga, they'd revive his dead Shirai Ryu clansmen. In ''Armageddon''[='s=] Konquest Mode, Taven runs into Scorpion, who is furious because the Elder Gods revived the Shirai Ryu as undead abominations. This would suggest they were being dicks who didn't uphold their end of the bargain when Scorpion delivered (as seen in his ''Deception'' ending), but ''that'' would go against Shunjiko (with some help from Nightwolf) being the one to take down Onaga in-canon.
in-canon (with some help from Nightwolf).
* ''Franchise/StreetFighter'': In fairness, a lot of it is because 2 ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterII II]]'' become an iconic landmark revolutionary sea-changing event of events which changed the universe forever and ever (to the point where pretty much everyone [[CapcomSequelStagnation got plain sick of it]]). If this weren't the case, Capcom ''probably'' would've just relished their success and quietly released Alpha ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterAlpha Alpha]]'' as a fun, inconsequential one-off featuring the unselectable fighters in [[VideoGame/StreetFighter [[VideoGame/StreetFighterI the first game]], then made a full break with ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterIII III]]''. As it is, ''[[VideoGame/StreetFighterII II]]'' ''II'' and its continuity has reached such an enormous Shuma-Gorathian level that it's ''dragged the rest of the ''Street Fighter'' universe into it''. Hence, ''VideoGame/StreetFighterIV''. With Makoto, Dudley, and Ibuki (and now Yun and Yang) at the same age and with the same motivations as in a game that canonically isn't supposed to happen for at least another three years. With a hopelessly convoluted plot involving M. Bison (who ''does'' die for real at some point, we just don't know ''when'') and a Korean hellion we've never even heard about before. With Adon seemingly stuck in the distant past. With Rose around for no apparent reason. Before, there would be retcons; now, Capcom [[TheyJustDidntCare isn't even trying to hash it out anymore]].



*** This discrepancy is explained away by two facts: ''Command Mission'' is a non-canon GaidenGame and ''Zero'' is [[{{Fanon}} commonly assumed by fans]] to occur in 22XX but is actually given no exact date in-series (it's only said that it takes place a century after the Elf Wars, which in turn are set sometime after the currently LeftHanging ''X'' titles).

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*** This discrepancy is explained away by two facts: ''Command Mission'' is a non-canon GaidenGame and ''Zero'' is [[{{Fanon}} commonly assumed by fans]] to occur in 22XX but is actually given no exact date in-series (it's in-series. It's only said that it takes place a century after the Elf Wars, which in turn are set sometime after the currently LeftHanging ''X'' titles).titles.
5th Apr '16 7:22:08 AM XSpectreGreyX
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* In the first issue of the ''ComicBook/{{New 52}} ComicBook/TeenTitans'', it was stated that Tim Drake kept his history as ComicBook/{{Robin}} & that previous iterations of the team existed, with references also being made to past Titans teams in ''ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws''. Come the zero issue of ''Teen Titans'' a year later, and Tim's been retconned to have always been ''Red'' Robin & this is the first team of Teen Titans, with the collected edition of the first Titans arc [[OrwellianEditor outright removing the details that were retconned out]]. And as for the previously mentioned members of the Titans in ''Red Hood'', so far the word is, more or less, that Dick Grayson, Starfire, & Arsenal (and possibly some others) hung around with each other, but never called themselves any team name.
** The references to Gar (Beast Boy) and Garth (Tempest) made by Arsenal in ''Red Hood'' can now be considered retconned out, as Garth was later introduced as an infant in the Aquaman title and Gar is a hero just starting out in New 52 continuity (and also red-skinned and red-haired, as opposed to his classic green look). An early appearance of Gar (with green skin and hair) was also edited out in the TPB run of Teen Titans, along with a cameo of Miss Martian (who was recolored to be a white blonde girl[[note]]Well, she ''was'' a White Martian...[[/note]]).

to:

* In the first issue of the ''ComicBook/{{New 52}} ComicBook/TeenTitans'', it was stated that Tim Drake kept his history as ComicBook/{{Robin}} & and that previous iterations of the team existed, with references also being made to past Titans teams in ''ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws''. Come the zero issue of ''Teen Titans'' a year later, and Tim's been retconned to have always been ''Red'' Robin & and this is the first team of Teen Titans, with the collected edition of the first Titans arc [[OrwellianEditor outright removing the details that were retconned out]]. And as for the previously mentioned members of the Titans in ''Red Hood'', so far the word is, more or less, that Dick Grayson, Starfire, & Arsenal (and possibly some others) hung around with each other, but never called themselves any team name.
** The references to Gar (Beast Boy) and Garth (Tempest) made by Arsenal in ''Red Hood'' can now be considered retconned out, as Garth was later introduced as an infant in the Aquaman title and Gar is a hero just starting out in New 52 continuity (and also red-skinned and red-haired, as opposed to his classic green look). An early appearance of Gar (with green skin and hair) was also edited out in the TPB run of Teen Titans, along with a cameo of Miss Martian (who was recolored to be a white blonde girl[[note]]Well, she ''was'' a White Martian...[[/note]]).girl).
5th Apr '16 7:18:33 AM XSpectreGreyX
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* ''ComicBook/TheCrossing'', a CrisisCrossover featuring ComicBook/TheAvengers, is such a snarl that even [[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]] refuses to review it, partly because it's nearly impossible to tell when it begins or ends. Basically, Iron Man turns evil and helps Kang try to take over the world, but who is on who's side changes from issue to issue. Eventually, Kurt Busiek rendered the whole thing moot in ''Avengers Forever'' by stating that the entire thing was Immortus trolling the superhero community so that they'd leave other planets alone, and that almost everyone involved was a Space Phantom. [[LetUsNeverSpeakOfThisAgain After the Heroes Reborn/Heroes Return debacle, the Crossing was pretty much never brought up again.]]

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* ''ComicBook/TheCrossing'', a CrisisCrossover featuring ComicBook/TheAvengers, is such a snarl that even [[WebVideo/AtopTheFourthWall Linkara]] refuses to review it, partly because it's nearly impossible to tell when it begins or ends. Basically, Iron Man turns evil and helps Kang try to take over the world, but who is on who's whose side changes from issue to issue. Eventually, Kurt Busiek rendered the whole thing moot in ''Avengers Forever'' by stating that the entire thing was Immortus trolling the superhero community so that they'd leave other planets alone, and that almost everyone involved was a Space Phantom. [[LetUsNeverSpeakOfThisAgain After the Heroes Reborn/Heroes Return debacle, the Crossing was pretty much never brought up again.]]
3rd Apr '16 3:13:49 PM skybox
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* Literature/TheBible has a number of direct contradictions, and let's just say that there's a cottage industry in trying to make sense of them. That cottage industry is called "Christian theology and Jewish study." ''[[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment And that's all we'll say about the matter]]''; if you want to find what they are you'll have to go elsewhere.


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** In the season 4 episode "Little Minnesota," Robin and Marshall bond over their similar backgrounds (she misses Canada; he misses Minnesota). They spend the whole episode hanging out with each other and going to Canada/Minnesota-themed bars. Despite this, the season 6 episode "The Mermaid Theory" revolves around the fact that Robin and Marshall have never spent any time with just the two of them.
29th Mar '16 4:13:50 PM YTDN
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Added DiffLines:

** The recently released ''Warcraft Chronicle'' was written to clarify a lot of the Snarl, especially ones related to the Titans/Old Gods, which include writing off the Tribunal of Ages as a [[UnreliableNarrator forgery]] and giving all life on Azeroth a titanic origin.
25th Mar '16 7:37:28 PM Tyrathius
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** Blizzard lampshaded their tendency to do this with the Well of Eternity dungeon, which revisits a previously established moment in Warcraft lore using time travel. Defeating the DualBoss at the end in the wrong order grants the achievement "That's Not Canon!" with an angry face as the icon.

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** Blizzard lampshaded their tendency to do this with the Well of Eternity dungeon, which revisits a previously established moment in Warcraft lore using time travel. Defeating the DualBoss at the end in last boss under the wrong order circumstances grants the achievement "That's Not Canon!" with an angry face as the icon.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ContinuitySnarl