History Main / ContinuingIsPainful

19th Feb '18 12:02:57 PM Amahn
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* ''VideoGame/EarthAndBeyond'' was a minor example where 1 death wasn't necessarily bad, but multiple deaths could add up to undesirable effect. For the most part death merely meant being towed back to whatever station you had registered, if you died on the other side of the galaxy this could mean over 30 minutes of flight 20+ load screens to get back to where you were. You also incurred an "EXP Debt" which caused EXP gains to be halved until the debt was paid off. Not so much a problem if you paid that debt off with Combat EXP, but Exploration and Trade EXP were rare commodities and having any gains on those halves was indeed painful. The real pain came in terms of equipment damage. All gear came with a % quality rating which effected its stats (vendor default being 100%, max crafted being 200%, and dropped varying from 80%-120%): higher quality weapons fired faster and did more damage, shields and reactors regenerated faster, and activated devices lasted longer. Each death had a chance to reduce any equipped gear's quality, and there was no way to "repair" an item. Craftable gear could be dismantled and rebuilt, but at max level there was no guarantee of the outcome % and people paid top dollar for those managing to turn out a 200% level VIII/IX item. Additionally there was a chance when dismantling to lose components, for rare items some of the components were virtually irreplaceable and their loss meant no rebuild was possible. Non-craftable gear (which was also usually non-tradeable) could never have its quality repaired, if multiple deaths caused its quality to drop too low your only option was to get a new one to drop.
* There's a 10% EXP loss (which becomes 8% after level 24 and caps at 2400 per death) when you die after a few levels in when playing ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXI''. Lose enough EXP, and you can level ''down''. Considering all equipment, abilities and spells are based on levels as well as having ClothesMakeTheSuperman in this game, losing a level at certain points can cripple your character. It's easier to get EXP in this game compared to before, but the threat of leveling down means one thing: learn to play this game, or pay for it.
** However, the above is what happens if you choose to NOT continue (return to homepoint). If you are revived or use a Reraise effect, you regain a value of exp and can regain levels (50% restored for Raise 1, 90% restored for Raise 3). However, upon being raised, you are Weakened, and your HP and MP are at fractional maximums for five minutes. If you are killed and raised again while weak, you go into an unnoted Double Weak status, which applies further penalties. Recovering from Weak can make or break some major fights (though some strategies in longer fights actually have scheduled party wipes at the battlefield entrance to buy time to reraise and full heal for the second half).
** It's probably worth noting that, if the current system would bother anyone, the '''original''' system in FFXI would leave them choking on inchoate rage. Originally 10% of the maximum exp for the next level would be lost at any death and the benefits of resurrection were substantially lower. Further, this exp loss was ''not'' capped. This translated to a player at level 75 losing (44,500 * 0.1 = 4,450) exp in a time when, with a full party of players, gaining anything over 2,000 exp per ''hour'' was considered reasonably good, with legendarily good parties making up to about 6,000 exp per hour. This system essentially led to most players being unwilling to attempt even moderately challenging content without proven competent players and a person's reputation and gear becoming ''extremely'' important as one death fest could result in hours and hours of mindless exp grinding.
* ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIV'' attempts to avoid the trope but still holds onto it in some degree. Dying causes the durability of your gear to be reduced and you'll be forced to return to your home point, which can be really bad if you had traveled really far. If you decide to wait and have someone revive you, you'll suffer the Weakness status, which cuts your max HP and MP by 10% for one minute and it can't be cured. Going down a second time while under Weakness and being revived after puts you under the Brink of Death status, which ''doubles'' the HP and MP penalties, along with applying it to ''all'' of your stats. Having a total party wipe against a boss, however, causes the boss' HP to be fully restored, which effectively erases any progress your team had made against the boss[[note]]On the other hand, as every single boss is a PuzzleBoss, requiring understanding of the mechanics in addition to damage output and aggro management, getting a party wipe against a boss is less a matter of starting over than it is learning the correct strategies[[/note]].



* There's a 10% EXP loss (which becomes 8% after level 24 and caps at 2400 per death) when you die after a few levels in when playing ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXI''. Lose enough EXP, and you can level ''down''. Considering all equipment, abilities and spells are based on levels as well as having ClothesMakeTheSuperman in this game, losing a level at certain points can cripple your character. It's easier to get EXP in this game compared to before, but the threat of leveling down means one thing: learn to play this game, or pay for it.
** However, the above is what happens if you choose to NOT continue (return to homepoint). If you are revived or use a Reraise effect, you regain a value of exp and can regain levels (50% restored for Raise 1, 90% restored for Raise 3). However, upon being raised, you are Weakened, and your HP and MP are at fractional maximums for five minutes. If you are killed and raised again while weak, you go into an unnoted Double Weak status, which applies further penalties. Recovering from Weak can make or break some major fights (though some strategies in longer fights actually have scheduled party wipes at the battlefield entrance to buy time to reraise and full heal for the second half).
** It's probably worth noting that, if the current system would bother anyone, the '''original''' system in FFXI would leave them choking on inchoate rage. Originally 10% of the maximum exp for the next level would be lost at any death and the benefits of resurrection were substantially lower. Further, this exp loss was ''not'' capped. This translated to a player at level 75 losing (44,500 * 0.1 = 4,450) exp in a time when, with a full party of players, gaining anything over 2,000 exp per ''hour'' was considered reasonably good, with legendarily good parties making up to about 6,000 exp per hour. This system essentially led to most players being unwilling to attempt even moderately challenging content without proven competent players and a person's reputation and gear becoming ''extremely'' important as one death fest could result in hours and hours of mindless exp grinding.
** ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyXIV'' attempts to avoid the trope but still holds onto it in some degree. Dying causes the durability of your gear to be reduced and you'll be forced to return to your home point, which can be really bad if you had traveled really far. If you decide to wait and have someone revive you, you'll suffer the Weakness status, which cuts your max HP and MP by 10% for one minute and it can't be cured. Going down a second time while under Weakness and being revived after puts you under the Brink of Death status, which ''doubles'' the HP and MP penalties, along with applying it to ''all'' of your stats. Having a total party wipe against a boss, however, causes the boss' HP to be fully restored, which effectively erases any progress your team had made against the boss[[note]]On the other hand, as every single boss is a PuzzleBoss, requiring understanding of the mechanics in addition to damage output and aggro management, getting a party wipe against a boss is less a matter of starting over than it is learning the correct strategies[[/note]].
17th Feb '18 8:53:57 PM nombretomado
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* ZombieApocalypse simulator ProjectZomboid gives you a cruel continuation option: After death, you can spawn another character in the same persistent world. Your new character will be able to retrieve the last one's equipment and take up residence in his or her safehouse -- provided you can survive long enough to ''reach'' them. Depending on how long the first character survived, your new (unskilled, unequipped) character may be starting in world without electricity, running water, or scavengeable supplies.

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* ZombieApocalypse simulator ProjectZomboid ''VideoGame/ProjectZomboid'' gives you a cruel continuation option: After death, you can spawn another character in the same persistent world. Your new character will be able to retrieve the last one's equipment and take up residence in his or her safehouse -- provided you can survive long enough to ''reach'' them. Depending on how long the first character survived, your new (unskilled, unequipped) character may be starting in world without electricity, running water, or scavengeable supplies.
12th Feb '18 4:40:28 PM nombretomado
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** The PCEngine ''Valis'' games can suffer from this in their later levels, owing to the increasing scarcity of power-ups.

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** The PCEngine UsefulNotes/PCEngine ''Valis'' games can suffer from this in their later levels, owing to the increasing scarcity of power-ups.
26th Jan '18 4:11:32 AM RJP
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* In ''VideoGame/DungeonsAndDragonsOnline'' follows a similar system to ''VideoGame/TheLordOfTheRingsOnline'' (not surprising as they were created by the same company).

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* In ''VideoGame/DungeonsAndDragonsOnline'' follows a similar system to ''VideoGame/TheLordOfTheRingsOnline'' above (not surprising as they were created by the same company).
26th Jan '18 4:10:52 AM RJP
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Added DiffLines:

* In ''VideoGame/DungeonsAndDragonsOnline'' follows a similar system to ''VideoGame/TheLordOfTheRingsOnline'' (not surprising as they were created by the same company).
26th Jan '18 3:55:44 AM jormis29
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* In ''SpiderMan vs. The Kingpin'', using a continue caused the in-game clock to fast-forward two hours, giving you less time to get all the keys needed to disarm the bomb. If you lose all of your health, and continuing would put you over 24 in-game hour time limit, you don't get to continue: it's GameOver.

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* In ''SpiderMan vs. The Kingpin'', ''VideoGame/SpiderManVsTheKingpin'', using a continue caused the in-game clock to fast-forward two hours, giving you less time to get all the keys needed to disarm the bomb. If you lose all of your health, and continuing would put you over 24 in-game hour time limit, you don't get to continue: it's GameOver.
2nd Jan '18 6:23:14 PM KBABZ
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Added DiffLines:

* Dying in ''VideoGame/JakIIRenegade'' or ''VideoGame/Jak3Wastelander'' would not revert your ammo back to when you hit the checkpoint. For ''Jak II'' in particular, this made certain Missions much harder to complete past your first try, as you had already spent all the ammo for your good weapons on the first attempt and couldn't stock them up anymore. Having sparse checkpoints didn't help.
27th Dec '17 6:24:55 PM nombretomado
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* The {{MMORPG}} ''{{Flyff}}'' takes a few percent off your experience whenever you get killed. Very off-putting if you get killed while trying to level-up, especially when you end up losing everything you gained in the last hour. Not only that, but you're almost certain to have a long trip back to wherever you were fighting monsters (and have to deal with loading times if you died while underground).

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* The {{MMORPG}} ''{{Flyff}}'' ''VideoGame/{{Flyff}}'' takes a few percent off your experience whenever you get killed. Very off-putting if you get killed while trying to level-up, especially when you end up losing everything you gained in the last hour. Not only that, but you're almost certain to have a long trip back to wherever you were fighting monsters (and have to deal with loading times if you died while underground).
18th Dec '17 11:24:56 AM BeerBaron
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* In ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' games you can't continue after you die, but there's a lesser outcome: you are caught by the guards doing something illegal and get sent to prison. That leads to the loss of some stats (which may or may not be a problem, there are a lot of stats and you usually don't use them all) and the loss of all your stolen items ([[KleptomaniacHero which may be a much bigger problem]]).
** You can get the items back, though, from the "evidence" chests scattered throughout the various Legion garrisons in the world.
** In ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion'', you could actually use this to raise the level cap. Losing points didn't change your level but regaining major skills would allow you to level up. Once you max your skills, it's the only way to level anymore.

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* In ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' games ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls''
** Averted when the PlayerCharacter actually dies. You simply reload your last save and pick back up from there, with the only loss being of any progress since then. Nothing else changes in the game world.
** Played straight with continuing if
you can't continue after you die, but there's have a lesser outcome: you bounty and are caught by [[CityGuards a guard]]. You'll be given three options: pay the guards doing something illegal and get sent fine (set based on the crime you committed), go to prison. That leads jail, or resist arrest. Paying the fine isn't too bad of a penalty for anyone other than a brand new starting character thanks to the loss series' MoneyForNothing. Going to jail causes one of some stats (which may or may not be a problem, there are a lot of stats and you usually don't use them all) and the loss of all your skills (chosen at random) to atrophy. Again, nothing too horrible. However, choosing any option other than "resist arrest" causes the guard to confiscate any stolen items goods you are carrying ([[KleptomaniacHero which may be a much bigger problem]]).
** You
problem]]). Thankfully, you can get the items back, though, steal them back from the "evidence" chests scattered throughout the various Legion garrisons in the world.
** In ''VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion'', you could actually use
nearby forts, guard houses, and jails, but this to raise the level cap. Losing points didn't change your level but regaining major skills would allow you to level up. Once you max your skills, it's the only way to level anymore.can still be painful.
2nd Dec '17 12:06:41 PM Angeldeb82
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The opposite of DeathIsASlapOnTheWrist. Contrast AntiFrustrationFeatures, where dying makes the game lower the difficulty for you. If continuing takes you back to a much earlier part of the level or game, that's CheckpointStarvation. This trope is a frequent cause of an UnstableEquilibrium, since it's a mechanic that inherently makes the game progressively harder when you're already doing badly.

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The opposite of DeathIsASlapOnTheWrist. Contrast AntiFrustrationFeatures, where dying makes the game lower the difficulty for you. If continuing takes you back to a much earlier part of the level or game, that's CheckpointStarvation.CheckPointStarvation. This trope is a frequent cause of an UnstableEquilibrium, since it's a mechanic that inherently makes the game progressively harder when you're already doing badly.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ContinuingIsPainful