History Main / ConflictingLoyalty

10th Aug '17 12:52:27 PM gb00393
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*** He faces this dilemma again in Season 4 on his return to King's Landing when he must choose between his brother and the rest of his family when Joffrey dies and Tyrion is arrested and Sansa is suspected and between protecting Sansa, an oath he swore to Catelyn Stark which is complicated by her death and a changed political landscape - and pleasing Cersei. Jaime had also made the decision to honour his Kingsguard vows as best as possible but this is no easy task. He eventually decides to go against his family in secret, giving Brienne help to rescue Sansa, and working with Varys to rescue Tyrion.

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*** He faces this dilemma again in Season 4 on his return to King's Landing when he must choose between his brother and the rest of his family when Joffrey dies and Tyrion is arrested and Sansa is suspected and between protecting Sansa, Sansa - an oath he swore to Catelyn Stark which is complicated by her death and a changed political landscape - and pleasing Cersei. Jaime had also made the decision to honour his Kingsguard vows as best as possible but this is no easy task. He eventually decides to go against his family in secret, giving Brienne help to rescue Sansa, and working with Varys to rescue Tyrion.
10th Aug '17 12:51:40 PM gb00393
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*** He faces this dilemma again in Season 4 when he must choose between his brother and the rest of his family and between protecting Sansa and pleasing Cersei.

to:

*** He faces this dilemma again in Season 4 on his return to King's Landing when he must choose between his brother and the rest of his family when Joffrey dies and Tyrion is arrested and Sansa is suspected and between protecting Sansa Sansa, an oath he swore to Catelyn Stark which is complicated by her death and a changed political landscape - and pleasing Cersei.Cersei. Jaime had also made the decision to honour his Kingsguard vows as best as possible but this is no easy task. He eventually decides to go against his family in secret, giving Brienne help to rescue Sansa, and working with Varys to rescue Tyrion.
9th Aug '17 3:47:39 PM gb00393
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** He provides the trope quote when he points out to Lady Catelyn Stark that the oaths about honoring your family and honoring your King are forced to be helplessly contradictory sooner or later. If you've sworn to defend both the king and the innocent, what do you do when the king massacres the innocent?
** As he revealed to Brienne, Jaime broke his oath and killed the Mad King when he decided to explode huge quantities of wildfire hidden beneath King's Landing. This action saved 500,000 lives but came at the price of his honor and universal contempt for soiling his office.
** He faces this dilemma again in Season 4 when he must choose between his brother and the rest of his family and between protecting Sansa and pleasing Cersei.

to:

** *** He provides the trope quote when he points out to Lady Catelyn Stark that the oaths about honoring your family and honoring your King are forced to be helplessly contradictory sooner or later. If you've sworn to defend both the king and the innocent, what do you do when the king massacres the innocent?
** *** As he revealed to Brienne, Jaime broke his oath and killed the Mad King when he decided to explode huge quantities of wildfire hidden beneath King's Landing. This action saved 500,000 lives but came at the price of his honor and universal contempt for soiling his office.
** *** He faces this dilemma again in Season 4 when he must choose between his brother and the rest of his family and between protecting Sansa and pleasing Cersei.
9th Aug '17 3:47:11 PM gb00393
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** Jaime Lannister provides the trope quote. If you've sworn to defend both the king and the innocent, what do you do when the king massacres the innocent? He faces this dilemma again in Season 4 when he must choose between his brother and the rest of his family and between protecting Sansa and pleasing Cersei.

to:

** A recurring theme for Jaime Lannister all through the series:
** He
provides the trope quote. quote when he points out to Lady Catelyn Stark that the oaths about honoring your family and honoring your King are forced to be helplessly contradictory sooner or later. If you've sworn to defend both the king and the innocent, what do you do when the king massacres the innocent? innocent?
** As he revealed to Brienne, Jaime broke his oath and killed the Mad King when he decided to explode huge quantities of wildfire hidden beneath King's Landing. This action saved 500,000 lives but came at the price of his honor and universal contempt for soiling his office.
**
He faces this dilemma again in Season 4 when he must choose between his brother and the rest of his family and between protecting Sansa and pleasing Cersei.
2nd Aug '17 1:23:08 AM ectostar
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[[folder:Anime and Manga]]

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[[folder:Anime and & Manga]]



* The autobiographical protagonist of ''Manga/MyLesbianExperienceWithLoneliness'' is torn between wanting to make her parents proud versus allowing herself to be proud.

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* The autobiographical protagonist of ''Manga/MyLesbianExperienceWithLoneliness'' is torn between [[WellDoneDaughterGal wanting to make her parents proud proud]] versus allowing herself to be proud.



* In the (now non-canon) ''ComicBook/DuckTales'' [=/=] ''ComicBook/DarkwingDuck'' crossover "Dangerous Currency", Scrooge comes to St. Canard, and he and Darkwing ''really'' do not get along. The fact that his "two best friends hate each other" is stressful for Launchpad, who worries that they'll never get it sorted out and he'll be forced to pick one or the other. This is even represented on one of the covers, with Scrooge and Darkwing pulling on opposite sides of Launchpad's pilot's helmet. Fortunately, the two ultimately become VitriolicBestBuds and the situation is resolved.

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* In the (now non-canon) ''ComicBook/DuckTales'' [=/=] and ''ComicBook/DarkwingDuck'' crossover "Dangerous Currency", Scrooge comes to St. Canard, and he and Darkwing ''really'' do not get along. The fact that his "two best friends hate each other" is stressful for Launchpad, who worries that they'll never get it sorted out and he'll be forced to pick one or the other. This is even represented on one of the covers, with Scrooge and Darkwing pulling on opposite sides of Launchpad's pilot's helmet. Fortunately, the two ultimately become VitriolicBestBuds and the situation is resolved.



* ''Fanfic/{{Legionnaire}}'' poses this problem for [[ChurchMilitant Justicars]] like Prophet, who are willing to put their religion's principles over [[TheFundamentalist the orthodox.]]

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* ''Fanfic/{{Legionnaire}}'' poses this problem for [[ChurchMilitant Justicars]] like Prophet, who are willing to put their religion's principles over [[TheFundamentalist the orthodox.]]orthodox]].



* In ''Franchise/StarWars Episode III: Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', Anakin Skywalker fell to TheDarkSide when circumstances forced him to choose between his loyalty to the Jedi and the need to save Padme, which Palpatine had promised he could do. [[TragicMistake He chose Padme.]] He FINALLY makes the right decision in ''Star Wars Episode VI: Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''.

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* In ''Franchise/StarWars Episode III: Film/RevengeOfTheSith'', Anakin Skywalker fell to TheDarkSide when circumstances forced him to choose between his loyalty to the Jedi and the need to save Padme, which Palpatine had promised he could do. [[TragicMistake He chose Padme.]] Padme]]. He FINALLY makes the right decision in ''Star Wars Episode VI: Film/ReturnOfTheJedi''.



* ''Literature/NightfallSeries'': Myra is loyal to the Resistance. Still,[[spoiler: she won’t let them kill Vladimir and helps him escape from the cave.]]

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* ''Literature/NightfallSeries'': Myra is loyal to the Resistance. Still,[[spoiler: she won’t Still, [[spoiler:she won't let them kill Vladimir and helps him escape from the cave.]]



* ''Literature/{{Temeraire}}'': At the end of ''Empire of Ivory'', [[spoiler: the British government has sent a dragon infected with a highly contagious disease to France, where it will infect Napoleon's dragons -- and from where the disease will likely spread and kill off most of the dragons in the world. [[OfficerAndAGentleman Laurence]] and Temeraire bring Napoleon the cure, an act of treason against Great Britain. Then Laurence [[HonorBeforeReason goes back to England, fully intending to let them hang him for it.]]]]

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* ''Literature/{{Temeraire}}'': At the end of ''Empire of Ivory'', [[spoiler: the British government has sent a dragon infected with a highly contagious disease to France, where it will infect Napoleon's dragons -- and from where the disease will likely spread and kill off most of the dragons in the world. [[OfficerAndAGentleman Laurence]] and Temeraire bring Napoleon the cure, an act of treason against Great Britain. Then Laurence [[HonorBeforeReason goes back to England, fully intending to let them hang him for it.]]]]it]].]]



--->'''Catelyn:''' You have forsaken every vow you ever took!\\

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--->'''Catelyn:''' ---->'''Catelyn:''' You have forsaken every vow you ever took!\\



** At one point, Odo must choose between his loyalty to Starfleet and his feelings towards his race. [[spoiler:He finds it quite easy to chose once he learns what his people are doing. He doesn't hate them or wishes them any harm, [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch but that doesn't mean he is going to let them get away]] with their blatant disregard for Justice.]]

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** At one point, Odo must choose between his loyalty to Starfleet and his feelings towards his race. [[spoiler:He finds it quite easy to chose once he learns what his people are doing. He doesn't hate them or wishes them any harm, [[MySpeciesDothProtestTooMuch but that doesn't mean he is going to let them get away]] with their blatant disregard for Justice.]]Justice]].



** In ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts358DaysOver2'', Axel's friendship with Roxas and Xion conflicts with [[spoiler:his orders by the Organization to [[LetsYouAndHimFight "let things run their natural course"]] ]]. Even his [[spoiler:friendship with the pair suffers from this trope, as he comes to realize that only one of them can survive, and one of them has to perish to ensure the survival of the other.]]

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** In ''VideoGame/KingdomHearts358DaysOver2'', Axel's friendship with Roxas and Xion conflicts with [[spoiler:his orders by the Organization to [[LetsYouAndHimFight "let things run their natural course"]] ]]. course"]].]] Even his [[spoiler:friendship with the pair suffers from this trope, as he comes to realize that only one of them can survive, and one of them has to perish to ensure the survival of the other.]]



--> Merrill: How do you do it, living in the city without picking a side? Doesn't it matter to you?
--> Varric: Of course it does. That's why I don't take sides.
--> Merrill: That doesn't make any sense.
--> Varric: I've got you and Aveline, Fenris and Anders. Hawke. Isabela. I've got friends in the Circle and drinking buddies in the templars. All of them matter.
--> Merrill: But you're going to fight. If it comes to that, I mean.
--> Varric: I fought my own brother, Daisy. Nobody said this was going to be happy story.
* ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' - Miranda is [[UndyingLoyalty loyal to the end]] for Cerberus, having given up everything so they could protect her from her father. Then Shepard comes along and wins her loyalty by treating her as her own person and helping her out with a personal issue without expecting anything in return. In the endgame, if she goes with Shepard into the FinalBoss area, when forced to choose between Shepard and Cerberus, she chooses [[spoiler: Shepard. [[CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming Without hesitation.]]]]

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--> Merrill: ---> '''Merrill''': How do you do it, living in the city without picking a side? Doesn't it matter to you?
--> Varric:
you?\\
'''Varric''':
Of course it does. That's why I don't take sides.
--> Merrill:
sides.\\
'''Merrill''':
That doesn't make any sense.
--> Varric:
sense.\\
'''Varric''':
I've got you and Aveline, Fenris and Anders. Hawke. Isabela. I've got friends in the Circle and drinking buddies in the templars. All of them matter.
--> Merrill:
matter.\\
'''Merrill''':
But you're going to fight. If it comes to that, I mean.
--> Varric:
mean.\\
'''Varric''':
I fought my own brother, Daisy. Nobody said this was going to be happy story.
* ''VideoGame/MassEffect2'' - Miranda is [[UndyingLoyalty loyal to the end]] for Cerberus, having given up everything so they could protect her from her father. Then Shepard comes along and wins her loyalty by treating her as her own person and helping her out with a personal issue without expecting anything in return. In the endgame, if she goes with Shepard into the FinalBoss area, when forced to choose between Shepard and Cerberus, she chooses [[spoiler: Shepard. [[CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming Without hesitation.]]]]hesitation]].]]



** And in a straight [[SubvertedTrope subversion]],despite the fact we would expect the mantid to be absolutely loyal to their {{Hive Queen}} by virtue of being a race of {{Bee People}}, the [[PraetorianGuard Klaxxi's]] main goal is to keep in check the [[HiveQueen Mantid Empress]] in the case she ever becomes a threat to the [[BeePeople mantid]] [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy civilization]]. In the game, the current Mantid Empress has become corrupted by the [[EldritchAbomination Sha of Fear]], and has engaged in all sorts of [[TheCorruption morally]] [[WeHaveReserves questionable]] [[OmnicidalManiac activities]] due to it, so it's of no surprise that the Klaxxi want her dead. A better example comes from the backstory of one of the Paragons, whom is noted to not be the first time he has to fight a rogue Empress, altough that particular situation seems to have been much [[GrayandGrayMorality grayer]]([[ValuesDissonance by human standards, not mantid]]), he still seems to not have had much of a problem [[IDidWhatIHadtoDo doing what had to be done]]:

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** And in a straight [[SubvertedTrope subversion]],despite {{subver|tedTrope}}sion,despite the fact we would expect the mantid to be absolutely loyal to their {{Hive Queen}} by virtue of being a race of {{Bee People}}, the [[PraetorianGuard Klaxxi's]] main goal is to keep in check the [[HiveQueen Mantid Empress]] in the case she ever becomes a threat to the [[BeePeople mantid]] [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy civilization]]. In the game, the current Mantid Empress has become corrupted by the [[EldritchAbomination Sha of Fear]], and has engaged in all sorts of [[TheCorruption morally]] [[WeHaveReserves questionable]] [[OmnicidalManiac activities]] due to it, so it's of no surprise that the Klaxxi want her dead. A better example comes from the backstory of one of the Paragons, whom is noted to not be the first time he has to fight a rogue Empress, altough that particular situation seems to have been much [[GrayandGrayMorality grayer]]([[ValuesDissonance {{gray|andGrayMorality}}er ([[ValuesDissonance by human standards, not mantid]]), he still seems to not have had much of a problem [[IDidWhatIHadtoDo doing what had to be done]]:



'''[[NamestoRunAwayFromReallyFast Hisek the Swarmkeeper]]''': Grand Empress Zek'hara masked her true intentions behind the guise of matronly worry. She claimed her overbearing ways were necessary to protect us.When she tried to forbid [[TrainingFromHell the swarm]], it was to prevent, as she put it, [[WhatASenselessWasteofHumanLife "a senseless loss of life."]]In reality, she was obsessed with control. [[BlueandOrangeMorality She aspired to stay in power long past her time, and was willing to sacrifice our eternal cycle to achieve that]]. [[IDidWhatIHadtoDo We had no choice but]] [[DeadlyEuphemism to end her]]. How does it feel? [[IRegretNothing I have no regrets, if that is what you are asking]]. I am honored to serve the will of the Klaxxi. And having seen what Grand Empress Shek'zeer is doing to our land... [[PayEviluntoEvil I need no convincing.]]

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'''[[NamestoRunAwayFromReallyFast Hisek the Swarmkeeper]]''': Grand Empress Zek'hara masked her true intentions behind the guise of matronly worry. She claimed her overbearing ways were necessary to protect us.When she tried to forbid [[TrainingFromHell the swarm]], it was to prevent, as she put it, [[WhatASenselessWasteofHumanLife "a senseless loss of life."]]In reality, she was obsessed with control. [[BlueandOrangeMorality She aspired to stay in power long past her time, and was willing to sacrifice our eternal cycle to achieve that]]. [[IDidWhatIHadtoDo We had no choice but]] [[DeadlyEuphemism to end her]]. How does it feel? [[IRegretNothing I have no regrets, if that is what you are asking]]. I am honored to serve the will of the Klaxxi. And having seen what Grand Empress Shek'zeer is doing to our land... [[PayEviluntoEvil I need no convincing.]]convincing]].



** [[AntiVillain Zuko]] goes through this throughout the entire third season. He's finally got everything he's ever wanted, but he's betrayed the only family who cared for him. Team Avatar, his ''enemies'', care more for him then his father and sister do. And then we find out that [[spoiler:his grandfathers are not just Fire Lord Sozin but also Avatar Roku, splitting him even further. He finally chooses Team Avatar and his uncle - [[ThrowTheDogABone a decision which ultimately pays off in spectacular style.]]]]

to:

** [[AntiVillain Zuko]] goes through this throughout the entire third season. He's finally got everything he's ever wanted, but he's betrayed the only family who cared for him. Team Avatar, his ''enemies'', care more for him then his father and sister do. And then we find out that [[spoiler:his grandfathers are not just Fire Lord Sozin but also Avatar Roku, splitting him even further. He finally chooses Team Avatar and his uncle - [[ThrowTheDogABone a decision which ultimately pays off in spectacular style.]]]]style]].]]



* The Thebans at Thermopylae were a curious clash between one interpretation of PatrioticFervor and another. The Thebans were all exiles, yet stood and fought beside the 300 Spartans. In other words they put the [[HonorBeforeReason honor]] of their city ahead of the [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight laws]] of their city.
* UsefulNotes/GeorgeWashington in the Whiskey Rebellion. As the hero of the American Revolution, he had a certain sympathy for people revolting against being taxed (particularly as he was himself a rural distiller--albeit one for whom paying the excise was not particularly onerous); as the President of the United States, he had a duty to uphold the Constitution and the laws made under it, including the tax laws. He resolved the conflict by exercising the office of President: as President, he led an army that captured the rebels; as President, he put them on trial for treason; and when they were convicted, as President he [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome pardoned every one of them.]]

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* The Thebans at Thermopylae were a curious clash between one interpretation of PatrioticFervor and another. The Thebans were all exiles, yet stood and fought beside the 300 Spartans. In other words they put the [[HonorBeforeReason honor]] {{honor|BeforeReason}} of their city ahead of the [[ScrewTheRulesImDoingWhatsRight laws]] of their city.
* UsefulNotes/GeorgeWashington in the Whiskey Rebellion. As the hero of the American Revolution, he had a certain sympathy for people revolting against being taxed (particularly as he was himself a rural distiller--albeit one for whom paying the excise was not particularly onerous); as the President of the United States, he had a duty to uphold the Constitution and the laws made under it, including the tax laws. He resolved the conflict by exercising the office of President: as President, he led an army that captured the rebels; as President, he put them on trial for treason; and when they were convicted, as President he [[CrowningMomentOfAwesome pardoned every one of them.]]them]].
15th Jul '17 8:04:15 AM SilverFang
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Added DiffLines:

* ''{{Deadpool}}'' had this in the post recent chapters of his solo series. He has loyalty and friendship with Captain America & SHIELD agent, Emily Preston. But he sides with the former. [[spoiler: Cap, who has been Cosmic Cubed into a Hydra agent, sent Deadpool on a mission to assassinate Phil Coulson and prevent him from warning everyone about what's happening with him and Hydra. Coulson was a very close friend of Preston's and Wade felt guilty after completing the task. He asks Cap how he will ever explain things to Preston.]]
** [[spoiler: Later, Wade meets up with Preston to check on the family when a dark dome appears over Manhattan. She tells Deadpool to get in the car so they can find Coulson. Wade is completely torn. Preston wonders why Wade needed to see Coulson the other night, and Wade lies about the reason, and tells Preston he never found Coulson. When they get to his hide-out -which Wade burned down after killing Phil, he says it didn't look that way the other night he was there. He continues to play dumb while there, but Preston finds out the truth when she watches a surveillance video.]]
22nd Jun '17 12:51:34 PM abscake
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* The autobiographical protagonist of ''Manga/MyLesbianExperienceWithLoneliness''is torn between wanting to make her parents proud versus allowing herself to be proud.

to:

* The autobiographical protagonist of ''Manga/MyLesbianExperienceWithLoneliness''is ''Manga/MyLesbianExperienceWithLoneliness'' is torn between wanting to make her parents proud versus allowing herself to be proud.
22nd Jun '17 12:51:11 PM abscake
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Added DiffLines:

* The autobiographical protagonist of ''Manga/MyLesbianExperienceWithLoneliness''is torn between wanting to make her parents proud versus allowing herself to be proud.
11th Jun '17 8:55:56 PM nombretomado
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* In ''YggdraUnion'', Nessiah's first prerogative may be to ensure the safety and growth of the Gran Centurio, but he's also implied to care fairly deeply for the Imperial Army. When forced to choose between [[spoiler:protecting the Imperial Army by killing the player's army, thus ensuring that the sword's current wielder will die, or joining up with the player to rescue Yggdra and oversee the Gran Centurio's growth personally, he decides to TakeAThirdOption and kills himself to let things play out as naturally as possible. (Which isn't as extreme as it sounds, because Nessiah's pretty nonchalant about dying [[{{Immortality}} for obvious reasons]].)]] This is probably also done to preserve the balance of the game, but Nessiah having conflicted loyalties is the most reasonable explanation in-plot.

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* In ''YggdraUnion'', ''VideoGame/YggdraUnion'', Nessiah's first prerogative may be to ensure the safety and growth of the Gran Centurio, but he's also implied to care fairly deeply for the Imperial Army. When forced to choose between [[spoiler:protecting the Imperial Army by killing the player's army, thus ensuring that the sword's current wielder will die, or joining up with the player to rescue Yggdra and oversee the Gran Centurio's growth personally, he decides to TakeAThirdOption and kills himself to let things play out as naturally as possible. (Which isn't as extreme as it sounds, because Nessiah's pretty nonchalant about dying [[{{Immortality}} for obvious reasons]].)]] This is probably also done to preserve the balance of the game, but Nessiah having conflicted loyalties is the most reasonable explanation in-plot.
3rd Jun '17 10:00:54 AM nombretomado
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* Phase of the WhateleyUniverse. Brought up as an heir in the Goodkind family to hate mutants and know they are a threat to everything one should care about. Then Phase manifests as a mutant and ends up at [[SuperheroSchool Whateley Academy]] and in Team Kimba, where he is expected to support mutants and hate the Goodkind family. He's loyal to his family even after what they did to him. He's loyal to his friends and has risked his life for them.

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* Phase of the WhateleyUniverse.Literature/WhateleyUniverse. Brought up as an heir in the Goodkind family to hate mutants and know they are a threat to everything one should care about. Then Phase manifests as a mutant and ends up at [[SuperheroSchool Whateley Academy]] and in Team Kimba, where he is expected to support mutants and hate the Goodkind family. He's loyal to his family even after what they did to him. He's loyal to his friends and has risked his life for them.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ConflictingLoyalty