History Main / CommanderContrarian

10th Jan '18 7:27:38 AM MasterN
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[[TitleDrop Commander Contrarian]] doesn't just carry the ConflictBall, he holds the world hackey-sack record for keeping it aloft. His main purpose in the plot is to naysay and find flaws in the hero's plans so the other can fight physical and social obstacles. They might be legitimate concerns, but are usually spurious. This can be either because Commander Contrarian is AlphaBitch, [[GreenEyedMonster jealous]] [[DividedWeFall of the hero's position]] (like a good aligned [[TheStarscream Starscream]]), a GrumpyBear, or just a plain ol' {{Jerkass}}.

His objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if they aren't, he'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if he does, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If he's persuasive, he'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high his group will be monster chow.

When especially clichéd, [[{{Foil}} he will oppose anything a hero proposes]]. He'll wail and moan over [[ShootTheDog leaving the refugees]] or [[PetTheDog saving the refugees]]. He'll [[RedShirtArmy be adamant]] about a [[SuicidalOverconfidence suicidal charge]] ''or'' be [[ApatheticCitizens entirely against]] any military action. [[{{Foil}} As a character type]], he's practically [[SchrodingersGun Schrodinger's Gun Lobbyist]]; no matter ''what'' the hero advocates, he's against it. Likewise, his [[TokenEvilTeammate morality]] will always be 180 degrees opposite the leader.

He is usually the complainer when TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong. This can result in a DoomedContrarian. Sometimes, however, he's doing this on ''purpose.'' This is called a "DevilsAdvocate;" the basic idea is that, even though he may actually agree with the plan himself, he wants to make sure out of principle that the leader doesn't do anything he can't clearly defend against criticism, and might have missed something.

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[[TitleDrop Commander Contrarian]] doesn't just carry the ConflictBall, he holds they hold the world hackey-sack record for keeping it aloft. His Thier main purpose in the plot is to naysay and find flaws in the hero's plans so the other others can fight physical and social obstacles. They might be legitimate concerns, but are usually spurious. This can be either because Commander Contrarian is the AlphaBitch, [[GreenEyedMonster jealous]] [[DividedWeFall of the hero's position]] (like a good aligned [[TheStarscream Starscream]]), a GrumpyBear, or just a plain ol' {{Jerkass}}.

His Thier objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if [[JerkassHasAPoint they aren't, he'll aren't]], they'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if he does, they do, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If he's they’re persuasive, he'll they'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high his thier group will be [[RedShirt monster chow.

chow]].

When especially clichéd, [[{{Foil}} he they will oppose anything a hero proposes]]. He'll They’ll wail and moan over [[ShootTheDog leaving the refugees]] or [[PetTheDog saving the refugees]]. He'll refugees]], [[RedShirtArmy be adamant]] about a [[SuicidalOverconfidence suicidal charge]] ''or'' be [[ApatheticCitizens entirely against]] any military action. [[{{Foil}} As a character type]], he's they’re practically [[SchrodingersGun Schrodinger's Gun Lobbyist]]; no matter ''what'' the hero advocates, he's they’re against it. Likewise, his thier [[TokenEvilTeammate morality]] will always be 180 degrees opposite the leader.

He is They are usually the complainer when TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong. This can result in a DoomedContrarian. Sometimes, however, he's they’re doing this on ''purpose.'' This is called a "DevilsAdvocate;" the basic idea is that, even though he they may actually agree with the plan himself, he wants plan, they want to make sure out of principle that the leader doesn't do anything he they can't clearly defend against criticism, and might have missed something.
5th Jan '18 2:30:07 PM Derkhan
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* Kallor from ''Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' rarely agrees with the strategy suggested by the Alliance and is openly disgusted by the plan to [[spoiler: leave the conquered Coral to the Malazans]]. As only the second in command, he tends to be overruled, though.

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* High King Kallor from the ''Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' rarely agrees with the strategy suggested by the Alliance and is openly disgusted by the plan to [[spoiler: leave the conquered Coral to the Malazans]]. As only the second in command, he tends to be overruled, though.
4th Jan '18 10:37:51 AM lluewhyn
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Added DiffLines:

** It becomes clear that their answer to "How should the Night's Watch act in response to an imminent zombie invasion coupled with a major continental civil war?" is "Pretend like it isn't happening".
3rd Jan '18 7:34:30 AM janosrock
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** Kreia from the same game is almost certainly an example. Whenever you take an action that's either too good or too evil (not to be confused with Dark Side or Light Side points; most of her influence points are evil actions), she'll call you on disturbing the balance.

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** Kreia from the same game is almost certainly an a borderline example. Whenever She'll call you take an action that's either too out on both good or too evil (not to be confused with Dark Side or Light Side points; most actions and bad actions alike: if you do good, you're often robbing other people of her influence points are evil actions), the chance of growing stronger through struggle, she'll also call you out on disturbing any StupidEvil action because, well, it's stupid and evil for evil's sake, the balance.problem is that those are basically 80% of all options. She wholeheartedly approves of PragmaticVillainy and being PragmaticHero, but those are not always presented options.
2nd Jan '18 5:25:35 AM StFan
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* [=Flann O'Brien's=] TheThirdPoliceman features a man who makes it his rule to answer "No" to everything. Those who catch on can resort to asking if he refuses to divulge such-and-such information, and so on.
* Marco from ''Literature/{{Animorphs}}'' is a rare example of this with good intentions. While he hates going on missions, he wants to make sure that whatever plan Jake has come up with is as close to perfect as it can be. He's also a self-aware [[TheDragAlong drag-along]] and SarcasticDevotee whose CatchPhrase is "This is insane."

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* [=Flann O'Brien's=] TheThirdPoliceman ''Literature/TheThirdPoliceman'' features a man who makes it his rule to answer "No" to everything. Those who catch on can resort to asking if he refuses to divulge such-and-such information, and so on.
* ''Literature/{{Animorphs}}'':
**
Marco from ''Literature/{{Animorphs}}'' is a rare example of this with good intentions. While he hates going on missions, he wants to make sure that whatever plan Jake has come up with is as close to perfect as it can be. He's also a self-aware [[TheDragAlong drag-along]] and SarcasticDevotee whose CatchPhrase is "This is insane."
2nd Jan '18 5:24:32 AM StFan
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* While VitriolicBestBuds Rei and Usagi butt heads to the point of childish bickering in ''Anime/SailorMoon'', the English dub by Creator/DiC elevated her counterpart Raye to become this trope. A small complaint from Rei about Usagi's need to learn responsibility (something Rei thought Luna was doing too fast) was changed in one episode to Raye trying to kick Serena out of the Sailor Scouts and escalated to Raye actively bullying an apparently spineless Amy into actually not showing up on a mission out of protest, and Luna, [[FridgeLogic who you would expect would raise an objection to the most powerful person on the team being stripped of her duties and powers for no real reason]], being willing to go along with it.
** Raye was later strongly implied to have stolen Sailor Moon's Crescent Wand because she didn't trust Serena, which was altered from the original plot that actually showed Usagi giving the wand to Rei because she didn't trust ''herself'' to not give it up to the bad guys while attempting a [[FakeDefector Fake Defection]] to rescue Mamoru (Darien). Therefore, the scene that followed portrayed the dub's Raye being (apparently) ''willing'' to let Serena die (while Serena mentally pleaded for help) and finally backing down under pressure from her teammates, while the Japanese[=/=]Creator/VizMedia Rei was actually trying to keep a promise to Usagi and forcing herself to just watch (while Usagi mentally hoped they'd be strong enough ''not'' to rescue her and blow the entire plan).

to:

* ''Anime/SailorMoon'':
**
While VitriolicBestBuds Rei and Usagi butt heads to the point of childish bickering in ''Anime/SailorMoon'', bickering, the English dub by Creator/DiC elevated her counterpart Raye to become this trope. A small complaint from Rei about Usagi's need to learn responsibility (something Rei thought Luna was doing too fast) was changed in one episode to Raye trying to kick Serena out of the Sailor Scouts and escalated to Raye actively bullying an apparently spineless Amy into actually not showing up on a mission out of protest, and Luna, [[FridgeLogic who you would expect would raise an objection to the most powerful person on the team being stripped of her duties and powers for no real reason]], being willing to go along with it.
**
it.\\\
Raye was later strongly implied to have stolen Sailor Moon's Crescent Wand because she didn't trust Serena, which was altered from the original plot that actually showed Usagi giving the wand to Rei because she didn't trust ''herself'' to not give it up to the bad guys while attempting a [[FakeDefector Fake Defection]] to rescue Mamoru (Darien). Therefore, the scene that followed portrayed the dub's Raye being (apparently) ''willing'' to let Serena die (while Serena mentally pleaded for help) and finally backing down under pressure from her teammates, while the Japanese[=/=]Creator/VizMedia Rei was actually trying to keep a promise to Usagi and forcing herself to just watch (while Usagi mentally hoped they'd be strong enough ''not'' to rescue her and blow the entire plan).



* Joe in ''Anime/ScienceNinjaTeamGatchaman'', especially regarding the Bird Missiles. A rare example of a commander being this is Ken, who argues with Dr. Nambu from time to time and is actually a bit of a hothead.
** In ''Anime/BattleOfThePlanets'' it's even worse, with Mark being much more wholesome and boyscout-like than Ken and Joe's tragic backstory being {{Bowdlerise}}d out of Jason's character so Jason simply comes off as a hotheaded jerk whose role in battles is to argue with Mark.

to:

* Joe in ''Anime/ScienceNinjaTeamGatchaman'', especially regarding the Bird Missiles. A rare example of a commander being this is Ken, who argues with Dr. Nambu from time to time and is actually a bit of a hothead.
**
hothead. In ''Anime/BattleOfThePlanets'' it's even worse, with Mark being much more wholesome and boyscout-like than Ken and Joe's tragic backstory being {{Bowdlerise}}d out of Jason's character so Jason simply comes off as a hotheaded jerk whose role in battles is to argue with Mark.



[[folder:Film]]
* Decker in ''Film/StarTrekTheMotionPicture'' existed simply to be contrary to Captain Kirk. Sort of. But the script (specifically [=McCoy=] and Kirk's dialogue) suggests that it's rather an InvertedTrope - Kirk is acting contrary to Decker just to reassert control whereas Decker actually shows he has his head screwed on straight by saving the ship on more than one occasion.
** In point of fact, ''all'' of the first officers of the ''Franchise/StarTrek'' series usually act like this, especially with regard to the [[AlienNonInterferenceClause Prime Directive]]. Picard, at least, believes that it is the job of the first officer: to contradict and question the captain when necessary -- which (as he notes in "Encounter At Farpoint") is why he picked Riker (who had such an incident on his record). Starfleet captains are supposed to pick an executive officer that should have a different personality (although one he can get along with). This because Starfleet captains have a fairly loose leash, and as such there should always be a second opinion on if the choices they make are the right ones.
*** There's also the whole "Doomsday machine" angle. The "crazy" Commodore Decker in that Original series episode (basically Ahab InSpace), this one's dad. Star Trek ''[[Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan loves]]'' the [[Film/StarTrekFirstContact Ahab]] [[Film/StarTrekNemesis in]] [[Recap/StarTrekS2E13Obsession space]] [[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS5E4SiliconAvatar idea]].
*** Decker would be justified in being CommanderContrarian, as it is repeatedly shown that he ''does'' know the refit ''Enterprise'' far better than Kirk. Countermanding an order from Kirk actually saves the ship from impacting an asteroid at one point.

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[[folder:Film]]
[[folder:Films -- Live-Action]]
* ''Franchise/StarTrek'':
**
Decker in ''Film/StarTrekTheMotionPicture'' existed simply to be contrary to Captain Kirk. Sort of. But the script (specifically [=McCoy=] and Kirk's dialogue) suggests that it's rather an InvertedTrope - -- Kirk is acting contrary to Decker just to reassert control whereas Decker actually shows he has his head screwed on straight by saving the ship on more than one occasion.
** In point of fact, ''all'' of the first officers of the ''Franchise/StarTrek'' series usually act like this, especially with regard to the [[AlienNonInterferenceClause Prime Directive]]. Picard, at least, believes that it is the job of the first officer: to contradict and question the captain when necessary -- which (as he notes in "Encounter At Farpoint") is why he picked Riker (who had such an incident on his record). Starfleet captains are supposed to pick an executive officer that should have a different personality (although one he can get along with). This because Starfleet captains have a fairly loose leash, and as such there should always be a second opinion on if the choices they make are the right ones.
*** There's also the whole "Doomsday machine" angle. The "crazy" Commodore Decker in that Original series episode (basically Ahab InSpace), this one's dad. Star Trek ''[[Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan loves]]'' the [[Film/StarTrekFirstContact Ahab]] [[Film/StarTrekNemesis in]] [[Recap/StarTrekS2E13Obsession space]] [[Recap/StarTrekTheNextGenerationS5E4SiliconAvatar idea]].
***
occasion. Decker would be justified in being CommanderContrarian, as it is repeatedly shown that he ''does'' know the refit ''Enterprise'' far better than Kirk. Countermanding an order from Kirk actually saves the ship from impacting an asteroid at one point.



* ''All'' of the first officers of the ''Franchise/StarTrek'' series usually act like this, especially with regard to the [[AlienNonInterferenceClause Prime Directive]]. Picard, at least, believes that it is the job of the first officer: to contradict and question the captain when necessary -- which (as he notes in "Encounter At Farpoint") is why he picked Riker (who had such an incident on his record). Starfleet captains are supposed to pick an executive officer that should have a different personality (although one he can get along with). This because Starfleet captains have a fairly loose leash, and as such there should always be a second opinion on if the choices they make are the right ones.



-->'''Dr. Kelso''': The point is, sometimes what's best for this hospital ''is'' what's best for the patients! I know it, you know it, and guess what, Dr. Cox knows it too, although damned if he doesn't disagree with me just because I said it.
-->'''J.D.''': Sir, I don't think that's true.
-->'''Dr. Kelso''': Perry! It's hotter than hell in here!
-->'''Dr. Cox''': Freezing!
-->'''Dr. Kelso''': Great coffee, though!
-->'''Dr. Cox''': (raising his paper cup) Rat piss!
-->'''Dr. Kelso''': Dr Murphy is an incompetent suck-up.
-->'''Dr. Cox''': No, Bob. In fact, he's one of the finest young doctors I've ever had the good fortune of working with.
-->'''Dr. Kelso''': (to J.D.) Your witness.

to:

-->'''Dr. Kelso''': Kelso:''' The point is, sometimes what's best for this hospital ''is'' what's best for the patients! I know it, you know it, and guess what, Dr. Cox knows it too, although damned if he doesn't disagree with me just because I said it.
-->'''J.
it.\\
'''J.
D.''': :''' Sir, I don't think that's true.
-->'''Dr. Kelso''':
true.\\
'''Dr. Kelso:'''
Perry! It's hotter than hell in here!
-->'''Dr. Cox''': Freezing!
-->'''Dr. Kelso''':
here!\\
'''Dr. Cox:''' Freezing!\\
'''Dr. Kelso:'''
Great coffee, though!
-->'''Dr. Cox''': (raising
though!\\
'''Dr. Cox:''' ''[raising
his paper cup) cup]'' Rat piss!
-->'''Dr. Kelso''':
piss!\\
'''Dr. Kelso:'''
Dr Murphy is an incompetent suck-up.
-->'''Dr. Cox''':
suck-up.\\
'''Dr. Cox:'''
No, Bob. In fact, he's one of the finest young doctors I've ever had the good fortune of working with.
-->'''Dr. Kelso''': (to
with.\\
'''Dr. Kelso:''' ''[to
J.D.) ]'' Your witness.



* And, of course, ''Series/MontyPythonsFlyingCircus'' has The Man Who Contradicts People, as well as the ArgumentClinic staffer who keeps crossing the line between argument and contradiction. (No, he doesn't! Yes, he does!)

to:

* And, of course, ''Series/MontyPythonsFlyingCircus'' has The Man Who Contradicts People, as well as the ArgumentClinic Argument Clinic staffer who keeps crossing the line between argument and contradiction. (No, he doesn't! Yes, he does!)




[[folder:TabletopGames]]

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\n[[folder:TabletopGames]][[folder:Tabletop Games]]



[[folder:Web Originals]]
* Grif usually plays this role for Sarge in ''Machinima/RedVsBlue'', though Grif is usually justified in that Sarge is an AxCrazy [[TheNeidermeyer Neidermeyer]] who makes killing off Grif his priority in his plans, no matter how detrimental it would be to the situation.
** It's more often that Sarge is a genuine contrarion to Grif, just because he hates him, to the point that Sarge will refuse to believe basic facts if Grif mentions them.
-->'''Sarge''': Normally, I would agree with Simmons. But that would mean that I would agree with Grif! Therefore, I will simply grunt ambiguously. ''(does so)''
* Alfred Jodl in ''WebVideo/HitlerRants''. Every single time Hitler plans to do something, Jodl always disagrees with his plan, predictably causing Hitler to rant again.
* ''Website/{{Cracked}}'''s [[http://www.cracked.com/article_19468_5-logical-fallacies-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think.html 5 Logical Fallacies That Make You Wrong More Than You Think]] touches on humanity's love for this with a section on the argumentative theory of reasoning (See Real Life below).

to:

[[folder:Web Originals]]
Animation]]
* Grif usually plays this role for Sarge in ''Machinima/RedVsBlue'', though Grif is usually justified in that Sarge is an AxCrazy [[TheNeidermeyer Neidermeyer]] who makes killing off Grif his priority in his plans, no matter how detrimental it would be to the situation.
**
situation. It's more often that Sarge is a genuine contrarion contrarian to Grif, just because he hates him, to the point that Sarge will refuse to believe basic facts if Grif mentions them.
-->'''Sarge''': -->'''Sarge:''' Normally, I would agree with Simmons. But that would mean that I would agree with Grif! Therefore, I will simply grunt ambiguously. ''(does so)''
* Alfred Jodl in ''WebVideo/HitlerRants''. Every single time Hitler plans to do something, Jodl always disagrees with his plan, predictably causing Hitler to rant again.
* ''Website/{{Cracked}}'''s [[http://www.cracked.com/article_19468_5-logical-fallacies-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think.html 5 Logical Fallacies That Make You Wrong More Than You Think]] touches on humanity's love for this with a section on the argumentative theory of reasoning (See Real Life below).
''[does so]''



[[folder:Web Original]]
* Alfred Jodl in ''WebVideo/HitlerRants''. Every single time Hitler plans to do something, Jodl always disagrees with his plan, predictably causing Hitler to rant again.
* ''Website/{{Cracked}}'''s [[http://www.cracked.com/article_19468_5-logical-fallacies-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think.html 5 Logical Fallacies That Make You Wrong More Than You Think]] touches on humanity's love for this with a section on the argumentative theory of reasoning (See Real Life below).
[[/folder]]



* Rattrap in ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'' always doubted Optimus Primal's plans, always thought his fellow Maximals were all gonna die, and was by far the laziest of the group. Then again, he was a total Jerkass. Maybe he was just TemptingFate to spite him and let him win.
** Well, it worked. [[spoiler:He was one of the only three characters to survive the entirety of both ''Beast Wars'' and ''Beast Machines''.]]
** Also, before getting into the [[TheStarscream outright betrayal]] he's best known for, the original Starscream seemed to exist only to tell Megatron how stupid his plan was, often without having his own idea. You get the feeling that Starscream really doesn't have his own ideas - if Megs said grass was green, Screamer would say it's purple just to spite him.

to:

* ''Franchise/{{Transformers}}'':
**
Rattrap in ''WesternAnimation/BeastWars'' always doubted Optimus Primal's plans, always thought his fellow Maximals were all gonna die, and was by far the laziest of the group. Then again, he was a total Jerkass. Maybe he was just TemptingFate to spite him and let him win.
**
win. Well, it worked. [[spoiler:He was one of the only three characters to survive the entirety of both ''Beast Wars'' and ''Beast Machines''.]]
** Also, before getting into the [[TheStarscream outright betrayal]] he's best known for, the original Starscream seemed to exist only to tell Megatron how stupid his plan was, often without having his own idea. You get the feeling that Starscream really doesn't have his own ideas - -- if Megs said grass was green, Screamer would say it's purple just to spite him.



--> '''Lois''': I think you just got to be in the "out" group. Whoever's on top, whoever's in power, whoever's successful, you gotta be on the other side or you don't feel like the smartest guy in the room. All you are, my dear, is a contrarian.
* Played as straight as you could possibly get in ''WesternAnimation/WordGirl'' which introduced a recurring barbarian-esque villain named "Nocan The Contrarian" who is true to his name.

to:

--> '''Lois''': -->'''Lois:''' I think you just got to be in the "out" group. Whoever's on top, whoever's in power, whoever's successful, you gotta be on the other side or you don't feel like the smartest guy in the room. All you are, my dear, is a contrarian.
* Played as straight as you could possibly get in ''WesternAnimation/WordGirl'' which introduced a recurring barbarian-esque villain named "Nocan The the Contrarian" who is true to his name.
name.



* In the Roman Catholic Church, the Devil's Advocate was an actual position, used when determining sainthood. Said person was there specifically to argue against the canonization. [[UsefulNotes/ThePope Pope John Paul II]] removed this position, and replaced it with the Promoter of Justice, the guy who is in charge of examining how accurate the inquiry on the saintliness of the candidate really is. Not so much "Why this is wrong!" as it is "Why is this right?" Notably, this led to a ''ton'' more people getting sainthood in a short amount of time.
** They sort-of brought back the Devil's Advocate one time since. When Mother Teresa was up for beatification, Creator/ChristopherHitchens, one of her most vocal critics (and an atheist to boot), was invited to give evidence against the process.

to:

* In the Roman Catholic Church, the Devil's Advocate was an actual position, used when determining sainthood. Said person was there specifically to argue against the canonization. [[UsefulNotes/ThePope Pope John Paul II]] removed this position, and replaced it with the Promoter of Justice, the guy who is in charge of examining how accurate the inquiry on the saintliness of the candidate really is. Not so much "Why this is wrong!" as it is "Why is this right?" Notably, this led to a ''ton'' more people getting sainthood in a short amount of time.
**
time. They sort-of brought back the Devil's Advocate one time since. When Mother Teresa was up for beatification, Creator/ChristopherHitchens, one of her most vocal critics (and an atheist to boot), was invited to give evidence against the process.



* [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Guderian Heinz Guderian]], one of the 'inventors' of blitzkrieg. He claimed that he was hated by his contemporaries and superior because he was too smart for his own good and they didn't like the way he poked holes in their plans [[InsufferableGenius and was basically always right]]. ''In fact'' he was hated because [[{{Narcissist}} he refused to acknowledge others' abilities or contributions and hogged credit for accomplishments, criticised any and all strategies that did not give himself and his forces the most important role]], sucked up to Hitler by taking Hitler's side whenever his superiors disagreed with Hitler and taking care never to contradict or criticise Hitler himself, and presided over the KangarooCourt show-trials that sentenced several hundred fellow officers implicated in the July Plot (to kill Hitler) to death. Despite being a committed Nazi, after the war he claimed that he had secretly opposed Hitler all along and that he had been the only competent senior commander in the entire ''Heer'' - going on to claim that the war had only been lost because his superiors and Hitler had ignored his advice. In reality he was only barely competent - he was single-handedly responsible for the ''Heer'''s near-failure in the battles of Smolensk and Kiev (in both cases he abandoned the operational plan to attack the Soviets' flanks in favour of frontal attacks). His forces also lost the most vehicles and men during Operations ''Barbarossa'' and ''Typhoon'' due to his enthusiasm for frontal attacks and utter contempt for vehicle-repair and logistics. So extreme was his (often one-sided) rivalry with his contemporaries and superiors that his troops actually ''fought other German troops'' during The Battle of Smolensk - Guderian wanted all the captured Soviet trucks for his own troops, since he was losing his own trucks at a far higher rate than anyone else.

to:

* [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_Guderian Heinz Guderian]], one of the 'inventors' of blitzkrieg. He claimed that he was hated by his contemporaries and superior because he was too smart for his own good and they didn't like the way he poked holes in their plans [[InsufferableGenius and was basically always right]]. ''In fact'' he was hated because [[{{Narcissist}} he refused to acknowledge others' abilities or contributions and hogged credit for accomplishments, criticised any and all strategies that did not give himself and his forces the most important role]], sucked up to Hitler by taking Hitler's side whenever his superiors disagreed with Hitler and taking care never to contradict or criticise Hitler himself, and presided over the KangarooCourt show-trials that sentenced several hundred fellow officers implicated in the July Plot (to kill Hitler) to death. Despite being a committed Nazi, after the war he claimed that he had secretly opposed Hitler all along and that he had been the only competent senior commander in the entire ''Heer'' - -- going on to claim that the war had only been lost because his superiors and Hitler had ignored his advice. In reality he was only barely competent - he was single-handedly responsible for the ''Heer'''s near-failure in the battles of Smolensk and Kiev (in both cases he abandoned the operational plan to attack the Soviets' flanks in favour of frontal attacks). His forces also lost the most vehicles and men during Operations ''Barbarossa'' and ''Typhoon'' due to his enthusiasm for frontal attacks and utter contempt for vehicle-repair and logistics. So extreme was his (often one-sided) rivalry with his contemporaries and superiors that his troops actually ''fought other German troops'' during The Battle of Smolensk - Guderian wanted all the captured Soviet trucks for his own troops, since he was losing his own trucks at a far higher rate than anyone else.



* Movie critic [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armond_White Armond White]] has been frequently accused of being one, due to giving negative reviews to positively received movies and vice versa (perhaps the most notorious being his negative ''WesternAnimation/ToyStory3'' review, [[CowboyBebopAtHisComputer which got so many things wrong about the movie]] that some people wondered if he'd actually seen it) with such regularity that it's often joked that [[AntiAdvice if Armond White hates it, it must be a good movie]]. In fact, it was an unexpectedly big event when Armond gave a positive review to ''Film/{{Godzilla 2014}}'', in agreement with the general consensus.

to:

* Movie critic [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armond_White Armond White]] has been frequently accused of being one, due to giving negative reviews to positively received movies and vice versa (perhaps the most notorious being his negative ''WesternAnimation/ToyStory3'' review, [[CowboyBebopAtHisComputer which got so many things wrong about the movie]] that some people wondered if he'd actually seen it) with such regularity that it's often joked that [[AntiAdvice if Armond White hates it, it must be a good movie]]. In fact, it was an unexpectedly big event when Armond gave a positive review to ''Film/{{Godzilla 2014}}'', ''Film/Godzilla2014'', in agreement with the general consensus.



-->'''Chief''': [[SelfDemonstratingArticle You call this a page ending?!]] First a predicable [[TheStinger stinger]], and now you got it [[Administrivia/AboutRhetoricalQuestions all rhetorical]]?! ''Get outta here before I RedLink your [[WordCruft Word Crufting]] ass into next week!''

to:

-->'''Chief''': ->'''Chief:''' [[SelfDemonstratingArticle You call this a page ending?!]] First a predicable [[TheStinger stinger]], and now you got it [[Administrivia/AboutRhetoricalQuestions all rhetorical]]?! ''Get outta here before I RedLink your [[WordCruft Word Crufting]] ass into next week!''
19th Oct '17 7:52:35 PM CheeseDogX
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* Your personal opinions are ''definitely'' going to vary on who is and is not one, but it certainly seems that a great deal of American politics consists of this.

to:

* Your personal opinions are ''definitely'' going to vary on who is and is not one, but it certainly seems that a great deal of American politics consists of this. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement And let's just keep it at that]].
19th Oct '17 7:14:59 PM CheeseDogX
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** In ''Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan'', Joachim embodies this trope on the antagonist side, often contradicting Khan.

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** In ''Film/StarTrekIITheWrathOfKhan'', Joachim embodies this trope on the antagonist side, often contradicting Khan. Unusually for this trope (probably because it's a villainous example), his contrary opinion is generally a sensible one Khan would have been wise to heed.
16th Oct '17 5:21:32 PM Overfiend
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* Hawkeye (Clint Barton) was KING of this as related to Avengers team leader Captain America. This was elegantly lampshaded by Wonder Man in 2005's "Avengers Finale" the epilogue to the "Avengers Disassembled" saga. The remaining Avengers are having a get-together, reminiscing about old times and departed friends, including the recently killed Hawkeye. Wonder Man told the group "Clint didn't just disagree with Cap; he'd CRAZY disagree. Cap could just say something as simple as "I like turkey", and Clint would say "turkey sucks, and you suck and WHO MADE YOU BOSS, ANYWAY?!?"

to:

* Hawkeye (Clint Barton) was KING of this as related to Avengers team leader Captain America. This was elegantly lampshaded by Wonder Man in 2005's "Avengers Finale" Finale", the epilogue to the "Avengers Disassembled" saga. The remaining Avengers are having a get-together, reminiscing about old times and departed friends, including the recently killed Hawkeye. Wonder Man told the group group: "Clint didn't just disagree with Cap; he'd CRAZY disagree. Cap could just say something as simple as "I like turkey", and Clint would say "turkey sucks, and you suck and WHO MADE YOU BOSS, ANYWAY?!?"
16th Oct '17 5:20:17 PM Overfiend
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Added DiffLines:

*Hawkeye (Clint Barton) was KING of this as related to Avengers team leader Captain America. This was elegantly lampshaded by Wonder Man in 2005's "Avengers Finale" the epilogue to the "Avengers Disassembled" saga. The remaining Avengers are having a get-together, reminiscing about old times and departed friends, including the recently killed Hawkeye. Wonder Man told the group "Clint didn't just disagree with Cap; he'd CRAZY disagree. Cap could just say something as simple as "I like turkey", and Clint would say "turkey sucks, and you suck and WHO MADE YOU BOSS, ANYWAY?!?"
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