History Main / CommanderContrarian

9th Jun '18 5:24:28 PM Lawman592
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Their objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if [[JerkassHasAPoint they aren't]], they'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if they do, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If they’re persuasive, they'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high [[NeverSplitTheParty thier group will be monster chow]].

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Their objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if [[JerkassHasAPoint they aren't]], they'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if they do, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If they’re persuasive, they'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high [[NeverSplitTheParty thier their group will be monster chow]].
6th May '18 7:04:46 PM N1KF
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[[TitleDrop Commander Contrarian]] doesn't just carry the ConflictBall, they hold the world hackey-sack record for keeping it aloft. Their main purpose in the plot is to naysay and find flaws in the hero's plans so the others can fight physical and social obstacles. They might be legitimate concerns, but are usually spurious. This can be either because Commander Contrarian is the AlphaBitch, [[GreenEyedMonster jealous]] [[DividedWeFall of the hero's position]] (like a good aligned [[TheStarscream Starscream]]), a GrumpyBear, or just a plain ol' {{Jerkass}}.

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[[TitleDrop Commander Contrarian]] Contrarian doesn't just carry the ConflictBall, they hold the world hackey-sack record for keeping it aloft. Their main purpose in the plot is to naysay and find flaws in the hero's plans so the others can fight physical and social obstacles. They might be legitimate concerns, but are usually spurious. This can be either because Commander Contrarian is the AlphaBitch, [[GreenEyedMonster jealous]] [[DividedWeFall of the hero's position]] (like a good aligned [[TheStarscream Starscream]]), a GrumpyBear, or just a plain ol' {{Jerkass}}.



** Decker in ''Film/StarTrekTheMotionPicture'' existed simply to be contrary to Captain Kirk. Sort of. But the script (specifically [=McCoy=] and Kirk's dialogue) suggests that it's rather an InvertedTrope -- Kirk is acting contrary to Decker just to reassert control whereas Decker actually shows he has his head screwed on straight by saving the ship on more than one occasion. Decker would be justified in being CommanderContrarian, as it is repeatedly shown that he ''does'' know the refit ''Enterprise'' far better than Kirk. Countermanding an order from Kirk actually saves the ship from impacting an asteroid at one point.

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** Decker in ''Film/StarTrekTheMotionPicture'' existed simply to be contrary to Captain Kirk. Sort of. But the script (specifically [=McCoy=] and Kirk's dialogue) suggests that it's rather an InvertedTrope -- Kirk is acting contrary to Decker just to reassert control whereas Decker actually shows he has his head screwed on straight by saving the ship on more than one occasion. Decker would be justified in being CommanderContrarian, Commander Contrarian, as it is repeatedly shown that he ''does'' know the refit ''Enterprise'' far better than Kirk. Countermanding an order from Kirk actually saves the ship from impacting an asteroid at one point.



** Ten years later, during the ''Literature/HandOfThrawn'' duology, Pellaeon, through hard work and [[YouAreInCommandNow by outliving his superiors]], is the Empire's Supreme Commander, and Captain Ardiff is his CommanderContrarian.

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** Ten years later, during the ''Literature/HandOfThrawn'' duology, Pellaeon, through hard work and [[YouAreInCommandNow by outliving his superiors]], is the Empire's Supreme Commander, and Captain Ardiff is his CommanderContrarian.Commander Contrarian.



** In a more straight example, the New Republic High Council's CommanderContrarian is Councilor Fey'lya, a self-absorbed self-appointed Dark Side's advocate, but for the purposes of empowering himself, not improving the Council's ideas. He's a proponent of DividedWeFall.

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** In a more straight example, the New Republic High Council's CommanderContrarian Commander Contrarian is Councilor Fey'lya, a self-absorbed self-appointed Dark Side's advocate, but for the purposes of empowering himself, not improving the Council's ideas. He's a proponent of DividedWeFall.
2nd May '18 9:34:06 AM __Vano
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Their objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if [[JerkassHasAPoint they aren't]], they'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if they do, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If they’re persuasive, they'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high thier group will be [[RedShirt monster chow]].

to:

Their objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if [[JerkassHasAPoint they aren't]], they'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if they do, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If they’re persuasive, they'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high [[NeverSplitTheParty thier group will be [[RedShirt monster chow]].
29th Mar '18 6:35:43 AM Gosicrystal
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Thier objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if [[JerkassHasAPoint they aren't]], they'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if they do, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If they’re persuasive, they'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high thier group will be [[RedShirt monster chow]].

to:

Thier Their objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if [[JerkassHasAPoint they aren't]], they'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if they do, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If they’re persuasive, they'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high thier group will be [[RedShirt monster chow]].
16th Mar '18 3:33:22 PM nombretomado
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*** The most {{egregious}} example was Mitch [=McConnel=] calling for a vote to give the President the ability to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling, believing that the Democrats [[BatmanGambit didn't have enough votes to pass the measure]], thus proving it to be a bad idea. Harry Reid (Majority Leader) called his bluff, [[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2012/12/06/dem-unity-forces-mcconnell-to-filibuster-his-own-proposal/ forcing McConnel to filibuster]] his ''[[OutGambitted own proposal]]''.

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*** The most {{egregious}} {{JustForFun/egregious}} example was Mitch [=McConnel=] calling for a vote to give the President the ability to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling, believing that the Democrats [[BatmanGambit didn't have enough votes to pass the measure]], thus proving it to be a bad idea. Harry Reid (Majority Leader) called his bluff, [[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2012/12/06/dem-unity-forces-mcconnell-to-filibuster-his-own-proposal/ forcing McConnel to filibuster]] his ''[[OutGambitted own proposal]]''.
10th Feb '18 11:21:06 AM Baeraad555
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'''Britta:''' No to everything you both said!

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'''Britta:''' [[IResembleThatRemark No to everything you both said!said!]]
4th Feb '18 10:47:37 PM BattleMaster
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* This is taken UpToEleven by the Opposition (aka the Opposers), a thankfully small sect in the ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' setting. Their goal is to oppose ''every'' political, moral, ethical, and philosophical idea except their own, and they believe this will actually help people. Why? Well, they think that an idea can only succeed and its supporters can only become strong if they have to fight to support it. In other words, "opposition makes you strong, so help folks by opposing them". As can be expected, this group doesn't have many friends or allies (nor do they want any - they want people to oppose ''them'' too). Player Characters can actually join this group if they want to; the only requirement (other than holding to its controversial philosophy of opposing everything) is actually one that makes sense: you must be True Neutral in alignment. (Being Good, Evil, Lawful, or Chaotic obviously defeats the purpose.)

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* This is taken UpToEleven by the Opposition (aka the Opposers), a thankfully small sect in the ''TabletopGame/{{Planescape}}'' setting. Their goal is to oppose ''every'' political, moral, ethical, and philosophical idea except their own, and they believe this will actually help people. Why? Well, they think that an idea can only succeed and its supporters can only become strong if they have to fight to support it. In other words, "opposition "[[InsaneTrollLogic opposition makes you strong, so help folks by opposing them".them]]". As can be expected, this group doesn't have many friends or allies (nor do they want any - they want people to oppose ''them'' too). Player Characters can actually join this group if they want to; the only requirement (other than holding to its controversial philosophy of opposing everything) is actually one that makes sense: you must be True Neutral in alignment. (Being Good, Evil, Lawful, or Chaotic obviously defeats the purpose.)
1st Feb '18 9:41:50 PM Aetheo
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[[TitleDrop Commander Contrarian]] doesn't just carry the ConflictBall, they hold the world hackey-sack record for keeping it aloft. Thier main purpose in the plot is to naysay and find flaws in the hero's plans so the others can fight physical and social obstacles. They might be legitimate concerns, but are usually spurious. This can be either because Commander Contrarian is the AlphaBitch, [[GreenEyedMonster jealous]] [[DividedWeFall of the hero's position]] (like a good aligned [[TheStarscream Starscream]]), a GrumpyBear, or just a plain ol' {{Jerkass}}.

to:

[[TitleDrop Commander Contrarian]] doesn't just carry the ConflictBall, they hold the world hackey-sack record for keeping it aloft. Thier Their main purpose in the plot is to naysay and find flaws in the hero's plans so the others can fight physical and social obstacles. They might be legitimate concerns, but are usually spurious. This can be either because Commander Contrarian is the AlphaBitch, [[GreenEyedMonster jealous]] [[DividedWeFall of the hero's position]] (like a good aligned [[TheStarscream Starscream]]), a GrumpyBear, or just a plain ol' {{Jerkass}}.
10th Jan '18 7:27:38 AM MasterN
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[[TitleDrop Commander Contrarian]] doesn't just carry the ConflictBall, he holds the world hackey-sack record for keeping it aloft. His main purpose in the plot is to naysay and find flaws in the hero's plans so the other can fight physical and social obstacles. They might be legitimate concerns, but are usually spurious. This can be either because Commander Contrarian is AlphaBitch, [[GreenEyedMonster jealous]] [[DividedWeFall of the hero's position]] (like a good aligned [[TheStarscream Starscream]]), a GrumpyBear, or just a plain ol' {{Jerkass}}.

His objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if they aren't, he'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if he does, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If he's persuasive, he'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high his group will be monster chow.

When especially clichéd, [[{{Foil}} he will oppose anything a hero proposes]]. He'll wail and moan over [[ShootTheDog leaving the refugees]] or [[PetTheDog saving the refugees]]. He'll [[RedShirtArmy be adamant]] about a [[SuicidalOverconfidence suicidal charge]] ''or'' be [[ApatheticCitizens entirely against]] any military action. [[{{Foil}} As a character type]], he's practically [[SchrodingersGun Schrodinger's Gun Lobbyist]]; no matter ''what'' the hero advocates, he's against it. Likewise, his [[TokenEvilTeammate morality]] will always be 180 degrees opposite the leader.

He is usually the complainer when TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong. This can result in a DoomedContrarian. Sometimes, however, he's doing this on ''purpose.'' This is called a "DevilsAdvocate;" the basic idea is that, even though he may actually agree with the plan himself, he wants to make sure out of principle that the leader doesn't do anything he can't clearly defend against criticism, and might have missed something.

to:

[[TitleDrop Commander Contrarian]] doesn't just carry the ConflictBall, he holds they hold the world hackey-sack record for keeping it aloft. His Thier main purpose in the plot is to naysay and find flaws in the hero's plans so the other others can fight physical and social obstacles. They might be legitimate concerns, but are usually spurious. This can be either because Commander Contrarian is the AlphaBitch, [[GreenEyedMonster jealous]] [[DividedWeFall of the hero's position]] (like a good aligned [[TheStarscream Starscream]]), a GrumpyBear, or just a plain ol' {{Jerkass}}.

His Thier objections can be born of stupidity, [[DeathByPragmatism pragmatism]], or [[StrawmanPolitical politics]], but will almost always be just plain wrong. Even if [[JerkassHasAPoint they aren't, he'll aren't]], they'll only rarely propose a viable alternate plan of action, and even if he does, they do, it's almost unheard of for the hero to use it and have it work. If he's they’re persuasive, he'll they'll get the group to [[NeverSplitTheParty split up and go separate ways]]. Odds are high his thier group will be [[RedShirt monster chow.

chow]].

When especially clichéd, [[{{Foil}} he they will oppose anything a hero proposes]]. He'll They’ll wail and moan over [[ShootTheDog leaving the refugees]] or [[PetTheDog saving the refugees]]. He'll refugees]], [[RedShirtArmy be adamant]] about a [[SuicidalOverconfidence suicidal charge]] ''or'' be [[ApatheticCitizens entirely against]] any military action. [[{{Foil}} As a character type]], he's they’re practically [[SchrodingersGun Schrodinger's Gun Lobbyist]]; no matter ''what'' the hero advocates, he's they’re against it. Likewise, his thier [[TokenEvilTeammate morality]] will always be 180 degrees opposite the leader.

He is They are usually the complainer when TheComplainerIsAlwaysWrong. This can result in a DoomedContrarian. Sometimes, however, he's they’re doing this on ''purpose.'' This is called a "DevilsAdvocate;" the basic idea is that, even though he they may actually agree with the plan himself, he wants plan, they want to make sure out of principle that the leader doesn't do anything he they can't clearly defend against criticism, and might have missed something.
5th Jan '18 2:30:07 PM Derkhan
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* Kallor from ''Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' rarely agrees with the strategy suggested by the Alliance and is openly disgusted by the plan to [[spoiler: leave the conquered Coral to the Malazans]]. As only the second in command, he tends to be overruled, though.

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* High King Kallor from the ''Literature/MalazanBookOfTheFallen'' rarely agrees with the strategy suggested by the Alliance and is openly disgusted by the plan to [[spoiler: leave the conquered Coral to the Malazans]]. As only the second in command, he tends to be overruled, though.
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