History Main / BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood

30th Jun '17 4:56:52 PM zarpaulus
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** When homosexuality was still a crime in most Western nations many gay men were chemically castrated, including UsefulNotes/AlanTuring. It's commonly believed to have been a factor in his suicide.
14th Jun '17 6:20:29 PM Alberloze
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''Webcomic/PerfectionEngine'':
** The Eidolon King Animamundi completely transforms his kingdom and his people to strive for perfect morality and society as a form of penance for their Maker. The Eidolons and their King strive for their Maker to return to them, believing she was repulsed by their flaws and imperfections. Society is now peaceful, kind, beautiful, and perfect, one would think...
10th Jun '17 8:13:49 AM WikiGuardianAngel
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In Fanfic/WaterAerobicsForTheAquaphobic, [[JerkAss Lucius Malfoy]] gets immersed in [[Manga/RanmaOneHalf Jusenkyo's Spring of the Drowned Good Samaritan]], and becomes an IncorruptiblePurePureness [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin good samaritan]] who is ridiculously nice and gracious and coddles ''everyone''. Because the curse is triggered by cold water and deactivated by hot water, Dumbledore places a compulsion on Lucius that makes him avoid hot water, and [[PutOnABus sends him off]] to China to research the Jusenkyo curse and get him out of his hair and [[BigBad Voldermort's]] hands.

to:

* In Fanfic/WaterAerobicsForTheAquaphobic, ''Fanfic/WaterAreobicsForTheAquaphobic'', [[JerkAss Lucius Malfoy]] gets immersed in [[Manga/RanmaOneHalf Jusenkyo's Spring of the Drowned Good Samaritan]], and becomes an IncorruptiblePurePureness [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin good samaritan]] who is ridiculously nice and gracious and coddles ''everyone''. Because the curse is triggered by cold water and deactivated by hot water, Dumbledore places a compulsion on Lucius that makes him avoid hot water, and [[PutOnABus sends him off]] to China to research the Jusenkyo curse and get keep him out of his hair and [[BigBad Voldermort's]] hands.
10th Jun '17 8:11:37 AM WikiGuardianAngel
Is there an issue? Send a Message


So, the heroes have finally captured [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast Duke Diabolico]], yay! ... [[AndThenWhat so now what?]] He's repeatedly proven he not only [[CardCarryingVillain doesn't want to reform]], but will turn any such attempts into another [[EvilPlan dastardly scheme]] by [[FalselyReformedVillain masquerading as reformed]], and the CardboardPrison is looking especially porous right now. Plus, he's proven smart enough to defy being a {{Self Disposing Villain}}. The heroes [[ThouShallNotKill couldn't just kill him]], and even if they [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim weren't too principled against killing]], he's also avoided [[IDidWhatIHadToDo giving the heroes]] (and [[BadGuysDoTheDirtyWork other villains]]) reasons to kill him. Well, there is still one more thing left you can do, a [[{{Brainwash}} Brainwashing]] ... [[TitleDrop for the greater good]]!

The way it is done can have varying degrees of squick. Heroes might go the "soft" route and administer {{Care Bear Stare}}s, use ThePowerOfLove and [[ThePowerOfFriendship Friendship]], and in conjunction with [[TalkingTheMonsterToDeath "motivational" speeches]] trigger a [[MoreThanMindControl quasi-voluntary]] HeelFaceTurn. However, a more extreme villain might require a more extreme method, and perhaps a shot of LaserGuidedAmnesia, a [[LossOfIdentity new personality]], or a RestrainingBolt might be in order, or even a MindRape to screw him thoroughly. And Voilà! Duke Diabolico, the [[ForTheEvulz most evil]] and [[LargeHam theatrical]] supervillain to grace [[MonsterOfTheWeek the Saturday weekend]] is now a codger who willingly helps people cross the street. Who cares about MindOverManners, right?

Naturally, this trope involves [[GreyAndGreyMorality Grey And Grey]] or BlackAndGreyMorality at best, because like any brainwashing, it involves compromising the free will of the brainwashee. If done by TheFace, they are probably also running on BlackAndGreyMorality or GreyAndGreyMorality, otherwise there is probably some serious ValuesDissonance going on in the work. If TheAntagonist is doing the brainwashing, then it is treated as any regular ol'e {{Brainwashing}}, and expect them to be of the WellIntentionedExtremist or KnightTemplar variety justifying it through TheEvilsOfFreeWill. If regularly done by either side, there is the ever present danger of JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope until [[FelonyMisdemeanor litterers are brainwashed]] into [[UpToEleven creepy all-loving paragons]], and then having it taken from there because UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans.

The brainwashing has a tendency to be flimsy though, and when it slips the results are often pretty messy. Duke Diabolico may have been helping an old lady cross a street when he just spontaneously relapses and throws her under a semi. His minions or allies may come by and [[{{Deprogram}} break the brainwashing]] for him. He still might find himself [[BecomingTheMask liking good]] [[GoodFeelsGood more than evil]] and do a HeelFaceTurn on his own accord. He might face a HeroicBSOD as he [[AmnesiacDissonance grapples with]] a hidden [[HeelFaceMindScrew lifetime of evil]]. but if he doesn't, [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Run Away. Really Quickly]].

The brainwashing doesn't have to specifically be done to force a HeelFaceTurn. Upholding TheMasquerade is an example of this. If {{Muggles}} were to stumble on the existence of TheMasquerade and [[TheMasquerade The Masqueraders]] have the ethical sense to [[ThouShaltNotKillMuggles not erase them from existence]], then some LaserGuidedAmnesia is in order to keep them oblivious. Of course, being {{Muggles}}, the ethics of this isn't discussed much. This applies especially when it is justified that TheWorldIsNotReady for the [[BrokenMasquerade masquerade to be broken]], or that it is [[ForYourOwnGood for their own good]].

to:

So, the heroes have finally captured [[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast Duke Diabolico]], yay! ... [[AndThenWhat so now what?]] He's repeatedly proven he not only [[CardCarryingVillain doesn't want to reform]], but will turn any such attempts into another [[EvilPlan dastardly scheme]] by [[FalselyReformedVillain masquerading as reformed]], and the CardboardPrison is looking especially porous right now. Plus, he's proven smart enough to defy being a {{Self Disposing Villain}}. The heroes [[ThouShallNotKill couldn't just kill him]], and even if they [[IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim weren't too principled against killing]], he's also avoided [[IDidWhatIHadToDo giving the heroes]] (and [[BadGuysDoTheDirtyWork other villains]]) reasons to kill him. Well, there is still one him.

There's
more thing left you can do, option: to do a [[{{Brainwash}} Brainwashing]] ... [[TitleDrop for the greater good]]!

good]]! The way it is done can have varying degrees of squick. Heroes might go the "soft" route and administer {{Care Bear Stare}}s, use ThePowerOfLove and [[ThePowerOfFriendship Friendship]], and in conjunction with [[TalkingTheMonsterToDeath "motivational" speeches]] trigger a [[MoreThanMindControl quasi-voluntary]] HeelFaceTurn. However, a more extreme villain might require a more extreme method, and perhaps a shot of LaserGuidedAmnesia, a RestrainingBolt, or even a [[LossOfIdentity new personality]], or a RestrainingBolt might personality]] may be in order, or even a MindRape to screw him thoroughly. And Voilà! Duke Diabolico, the [[ForTheEvulz most evil]] and [[LargeHam theatrical]] supervillain to grace [[MonsterOfTheWeek the Saturday weekend]] is now a codger who willingly helps people cross the street.good-hearted codger. Who cares about MindOverManners, right?

Naturally, this trope involves [[GreyAndGreyMorality Grey And Grey]] or BlackAndGreyMorality at best, because like any brainwashing, it involves compromising the free will of the brainwashee. If done by TheFace, [[TheFace the heroes]], they are probably also running on BlackAndGreyMorality or GreyAndGreyMorality, otherwise there is probably some serious ValuesDissonance going on in the work. If TheAntagonist is doing the brainwashing, then it is treated as any regular ol'e {{Brainwashing}}, and expect them to be a LawfulEvil character of the WellIntentionedExtremist or KnightTemplar variety justifying it through TheEvilsOfFreeWill. If regularly done by either side, brainwashing is policy, there is also the ever present danger of JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope until [[FelonyMisdemeanor litterers are brainwashed]] into [[UpToEleven creepy all-loving paragons]], and then having it taken from there paragons]] because UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans.

The brainwashing has a tendency to be flimsy though, and when it slips the results are often pretty messy. Duke Diabolico may have been helping an old lady cross a street when he just spontaneously relapses and throws her under a semi. His minions or allies may come by and [[{{Deprogram}} break the brainwashing]] for him. He still might find himself [[BecomingTheMask liking good]] [[GoodFeelsGood more than evil]] and do a HeelFaceTurn on his own accord. He might face a HeroicBSOD as he [[AmnesiacDissonance grapples with]] a hidden [[HeelFaceMindScrew lifetime of evil]]. but if he doesn't, [[BrainwashedAndCrazy Run Away. Really Quickly]].

OhCrap.

The brainwashing doesn't have to specifically be done to force a HeelFaceTurn. Upholding change one's moral inclinations; upholding TheMasquerade is an example of this. If {{Muggles}} were to stumble on the existence of TheMasquerade and [[TheMasquerade The Masqueraders]] have the ethical sense to [[ThouShaltNotKillMuggles not erase them from existence]], then some LaserGuidedAmnesia is in order to keep them oblivious. Of course, being {{Muggles}}, the ethics of this isn't discussed much. This applies especially when it is justified [[JustifiedTrope justified]] that TheWorldIsNotReady for the [[BrokenMasquerade masquerade to be broken]], or that it is [[ForYourOwnGood for their own good]].



* Franchise/{{Superman}}'s {{Elseworlds}} counterpart in ''ComicBook/SupermanRedSon'' did this, to disturbing effect. The Batman imitators mopping the floor still in their costumes were particularly creepy; of course, [[spoiler:President]] Superman has a lot of reason to hate Batman. Unfortunately, the comic {{Time Skip}}s over the stage at which Superman decided to start cyberlobotomizing his enemies so as to maintain control without having to kill anybody, so by the time we see it it's treated as normal--a good drama call, but frustrating.
* Franchise/DocSavage used to use psychosurgery on his enemies to remove criminal tendencies. ''[[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans Hey, If it works, it works!]]''

to:

* Franchise/{{Superman}}'s {{Elseworlds}} counterpart in ''ComicBook/SupermanRedSon'' did this, to disturbing effect. The Batman imitators mopping the floor still in their costumes were particularly creepy; of course, [[spoiler:President]] Superman has a lot of reason to hate Batman. Batman in this story. Unfortunately, the comic {{Time Skip}}s over the stage at which Superman decided to start cyberlobotomizing his enemies so as to maintain control without having to kill anybody, so anybody. We never see the decision making that developed into this, and by the time we see it it's treated as normal--a good drama call, but frustrating.
* Franchise/DocSavage used to use psychosurgery on his enemies to remove criminal tendencies. ''[[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans Hey, If it works, it works!]]''


Added DiffLines:

* In Fanfic/WaterAerobicsForTheAquaphobic, [[JerkAss Lucius Malfoy]] gets immersed in [[Manga/RanmaOneHalf Jusenkyo's Spring of the Drowned Good Samaritan]], and becomes an IncorruptiblePurePureness [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin good samaritan]] who is ridiculously nice and gracious and coddles ''everyone''. Because the curse is triggered by cold water and deactivated by hot water, Dumbledore places a compulsion on Lucius that makes him avoid hot water, and [[PutOnABus sends him off]] to China to research the Jusenkyo curse and get him out of his hair and [[BigBad Voldermort's]] hands.
4th Jun '17 1:36:00 PM KingLyger
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''VideoGame/Persona5'' uses this as the modus operandi for the Phantom Thieves. They induce HeelFaceBrainwashing on adults whose crimes can't be traced by the police, or otherwise will simply be left alone as "ItCantBeHelped". Deconstructed in that the protagonists themselves, even after changing the hearts of some [[HateSink truly terrible people]], wonder if what they're doing is the right thing.
2nd Jun '17 1:04:41 AM PaulA
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Averted -- in fact, treated with revulsion and contempt -- in Creator/RobertAHeinlein's "If This Goes On". The [[TheRevolutionWillNotBeVillified revolutionaries]], after overthrowing the CorruptChurch, vote to reject their psych experts' proposal to use SubliminalSeduction to "condition" the people to accept the restoration of democracy (after an old man who "looked like Mark Twain" made an impassioned speech on how "free men aren't 'conditioned'.") Though interestingly, in the first published version of the story it wasn't averted: the revolutionaries agreed to the conditioning program with minimal discussion. Presumably Heinlein later decided this was morally very dubious and inserted the "Mark Twain" Expy as a kind of TakeThat against his younger self.

to:

* Averted -- in fact, treated with revulsion and contempt -- in Creator/RobertAHeinlein's "If This Goes On"."Literature/IfThisGoesOn". The [[TheRevolutionWillNotBeVillified revolutionaries]], after overthrowing the CorruptChurch, vote to reject their psych experts' proposal to use SubliminalSeduction to "condition" the people to accept the restoration of democracy (after an old man who "looked like Mark Twain" made an impassioned speech on how "free men aren't 'conditioned'.") Though interestingly, in the first published version of the story it wasn't averted: the revolutionaries agreed to the conditioning program with minimal discussion. Presumably Heinlein later decided this was morally very dubious and inserted the "Mark Twain" Expy as a kind of TakeThat against his younger self.
29th May '17 11:17:46 PM TSBasilisk
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* In ''Literature/APracticalGuideToEvil'' if an Angel of Contrition is summoned into Creation, every mortal within forty-nine miles is made contrite - forced to witness every Evil in their life, accept they cannot be forgiven, and made to repent. Those people will then attempt to purge Evil from the world, usually by forming into a crusading army. [[spoiler:The Lone Swordsman attempted this during the Battle of Liesse]].
28th Apr '17 12:27:49 PM flodoris
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** This is Tobi's main goal in . He plans to cast a permanent genjutsu on the moon that will make everyone live without hatred, since he believes mankind cannot live in such a way of their own free will. [[spoiler:Except he really just wanted to live in a dream world with [[TheLostLenore Rin, his dead love interest]]]].

to:

** This is Tobi's and [[spoiler:Madara's]] main goal in . He entitled "The Moon's Eye Plan". They plans to cast a permanent genjutsu on the moon that will make everyone live without hatred, in order to сapture all people in eternal genjutsu and collect all the chakra in all people in order to reach peace in the world, since he they believes mankind cannot live in such a way peacefully of their own free will. [[spoiler:Except he really just wanted to live in a dream world with [[TheLostLenore Rin, his dead love interest]]]].will.
27th Apr '17 11:06:00 PM WikiGuardianAngel
Is there an issue? Send a Message


Naturally, this trope involves [[GreyAndGreyMorality Grey And Grey]] or BlackAndGreyMorality at best, because like any brainwashing, it involves compromising the free will of the brainwashee. If done by TheFace, they are probably also running on BlackAndGreyMorality or GreyAndGreyMorality, otherwise there is probably some serious ValuesDissonance going on in the work. If done as policy, there is the ever present danger of JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope until [[FelonyMisdemeanor litterers are brainwashed]] into [[UpToEleven creepy all-loving paragons]], and then having it taken from there because UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans. If TheAntagonist is doing the brainwashing, then it is treated as any regular ol'e {{Brainwashing}}, and expect them to be of the WellIntentionedExtremist or KnightTemplar variety justifying it through TheEvilsOfFreeWill.

to:

Naturally, this trope involves [[GreyAndGreyMorality Grey And Grey]] or BlackAndGreyMorality at best, because like any brainwashing, it involves compromising the free will of the brainwashee. If done by TheFace, they are probably also running on BlackAndGreyMorality or GreyAndGreyMorality, otherwise there is probably some serious ValuesDissonance going on in the work. If TheAntagonist is doing the brainwashing, then it is treated as any regular ol'e {{Brainwashing}}, and expect them to be of the WellIntentionedExtremist or KnightTemplar variety justifying it through TheEvilsOfFreeWill. If regularly done as policy, by either side, there is the ever present danger of JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope until [[FelonyMisdemeanor litterers are brainwashed]] into [[UpToEleven creepy all-loving paragons]], and then having it taken from there because UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans. If TheAntagonist is doing the brainwashing, then it is treated as any regular ol'e {{Brainwashing}}, and expect them to be of the WellIntentionedExtremist or KnightTemplar variety justifying it through TheEvilsOfFreeWill.
UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans.



* "Moral enhancement", modifying the behavior and temperament of people through neuroscience to [[HeelFaceBrainwashing make bad people good]] and [[HumansAreFlawed normal people]] morally better, is a growing topic of moral, ethical and philosophical discussion in light of [[ScienceMarchesOn science's ever-growing capabilities]] to [[TheMindIsAPlaythingOfTheBody alter the mind and soul]]. Most envisionings of moral enhancement in wider society have it as a voluntary procedure or do not specify, but it especially invokes this trope when mandatory application is discussed.
** The issues around moral enhancement can greatly vary depending on the type and way the moral enhancement is carried out. A method that [[RestrainingBolt represses the ability to do bad]], for example, will have some different ethical and philosophical issues compared to a method that produces genuine goodwill (how authentic is an artificially induced goodwill compared to a "natural" one if they are otherwise subjectively identical is another point of debate). There are many differing approaches suggested: increasing self-control, enhancing prosocial emotions such as empathy and sympathy, applying a RestrainingBolt, or simple cognitive enhancement are among them. Whether it is a voluntary or involuntary procedure definitely also affects the issues to be discussed.
** The targets of a moral enhancement procedure also affects the issues that surround it. Moral enhancement has been discussed in scales and pervasiveness of application ranging from limited scope therapies for treating criminals with with disorders characterized by moral deficiencies (TheSociopath for example), to a global application to solve issues caused by [[HumansAreBastards Humans Being Bastards]] that is promoted by promoted by [[{{Transhumanism}} Transhumanists]].
** One area of moral enhancement that particularly fits this trope is crime and justice, in particular because this is the area of moral enhancement where involuntary treatment is commonly debated, and because the benefits are clear-cut. Issues specific to this area include the ethics of involuntary and voluntary treatment on convicts and whether consent to the procedure in exchange for reduced sentences is coercive.

to:

* "Moral enhancement", or also called moral bioenhancement, that is, modifying the behavior and temperament of people through neuroscience to [[HeelFaceBrainwashing make bad people good]] and [[HumansAreFlawed normal people]] morally better, is a growing topic of moral, ethical and philosophical discussion in light of [[ScienceMarchesOn science's ever-growing capabilities]] to [[TheMindIsAPlaythingOfTheBody alter the mind and soul]]. Most envisionings of moral enhancement in wider society have it as a voluntary procedure or do not specify, but it especially invokes this trope when mandatory application is discussed.
** The issues around moral enhancement can greatly vary depending on the type and way the moral enhancement is carried out. A method that [[RestrainingBolt represses the ability to do bad]], for example, will have some different ethical and philosophical issues compared to a method that produces genuine goodwill (how authentic is an artificially induced goodwill compared to a "natural" one if they are otherwise subjectively identical is another point of debate). There are many differing approaches suggested: increasing self-control, enhancing prosocial emotions such as empathy and sympathy, applying a RestrainingBolt, or simple cognitive enhancement are among them. Whether it is a voluntary or involuntary obligatory procedure definitely also affects the issues to be discussed.
** The targets scale of a moral enhancement procedure also affects the issues that surround it. Moral enhancement has been discussed in scales and pervasiveness of application ranging from limited scope therapies for treating criminals with with disorders characterized by moral deficiencies deficits (TheSociopath for example), to a global application to solve issues caused by [[HumansAreBastards Humans Being Bastards]] that is promoted by promoted by [[{{Transhumanism}} Transhumanists]].
** One area of moral enhancement that particularly fits this trope is crime and justice, in particular because this is the area of moral enhancement where involuntary treatment is commonly debated, and because the benefits here are clear-cut. Issues specific to this area include the ethics of involuntary and voluntary treatment on convicts and whether consent to the procedure in exchange for reduced sentences is coercive.
27th Apr '17 8:08:32 AM WikiGuardianAngel
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** The targets of a moral enhancement procedure also affects the issues that surround it. Moral enhancement has been discussed in scales and pervasiveness of application ranging from limited scope therapies for treating criminals with with disorders characterized by moral and [[LackOfEmpathy emotional]] deficiencies (TheSociopath for example), to a global application to solve issues caused by [[HumansAreBastards Humans Being Bastards]] that is promoted by promoted by [[{{Transhumanism}} Transhumanists]].

to:

** The targets of a moral enhancement procedure also affects the issues that surround it. Moral enhancement has been discussed in scales and pervasiveness of application ranging from limited scope therapies for treating criminals with with disorders characterized by moral and [[LackOfEmpathy emotional]] deficiencies (TheSociopath for example), to a global application to solve issues caused by [[HumansAreBastards Humans Being Bastards]] that is promoted by promoted by [[{{Transhumanism}} Transhumanists]].



** Complicating matters is that there is no one moral standard on which to improve. This moral pluralism means that an action that is morally sound in one moral system can be immoral in another, as demonstrated by the thought experiment the Trolley Problem, in which one has to decide between killing one to save 5 or letting 5 die through inaction. [[ForHappiness Utilitarian philosophy]] holds the most moral action is the one that [[TheNeedsOfTheMany saves the most people]], but [[ForJustice Deontological philosophy]] contradicts it by regarding the [[ThouShaltNotKill act of killing itself to be immoral]], despite being the route that saves more people. There is also the issue that moral enhancement can have side effects. Enhancing empathy, for example, could lead to [[RuleOfEmpathy increased partiality for those we care about]] at the expense of strangers, while enhancing generosity could allow [[TakingAdvantageOfEmpathy less scrupulous people to more easily exploit them]].

to:

** Complicating matters is that there is no one moral standard on which to improve. This moral pluralism means that an action that is morally sound in one moral system can be immoral in another, as demonstrated by the thought experiment the Trolley Problem, in which one has to decide between killing one to save 5 or letting 5 die through inaction. [[ForHappiness Utilitarian philosophy]] holds the most moral action is the one that [[TheNeedsOfTheMany saves the most people]], but [[ForJustice Deontological philosophy]] contradicts it by regarding the [[ThouShaltNotKill act of killing itself to be immoral]], despite being the route that saves more people. There is also the issue that moral enhancement can have side effects. Enhancing empathy, for example, could lead to [[RuleOfEmpathy increased partiality for those we care about]] at the expense of strangers, while enhancing generosity could allow [[TakingAdvantageOfEmpathy [[TakingAdvantageOfGenerosity less scrupulous people to more easily exploit them]].
This list shows the last 10 events of 343. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.BrainwashingForTheGreaterGood