History Main / BothSidesHaveAPoint

18th Feb '17 5:23:41 PM billybobfred
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* A major source of the Alliance versus Horde conflict in ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft''. The Alliance is racist and brutal against the Horde but the Horde tried to kill them all and [[BlackAndGreyMorality quite a few of them are kinda-sorta evil]]. Given the Horde has mitigating circumstances for many of their past crimes and has helped save the world, both sides have degenerated to a "he did this, she did that" situation to justify the [[Literature/CycleOfHatred cycle of hatred.]]

to:

* A major source of the Alliance versus Horde conflict in ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft''. The Alliance is racist and brutal against the Horde but the Horde tried to kill them all and [[BlackAndGreyMorality quite a few of them are kinda-sorta evil]]. Given the Horde has mitigating circumstances for many of their past crimes and has helped save the world, both sides have degenerated to a "he did this, she did that" situation to justify the [[Literature/CycleOfHatred [[CycleOfRevenge cycle of hatred.]]
29th Dec '16 7:06:22 AM gb00393
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ''Series/GameOfThrones'': In "The Wars to Come", Jon urges Mance to bend the knee to Stannis to save his people by earning them a place south of the Wall, but Mance argues his authority comes from a respect that would evaporate the moment they see him kneel and any leader that gives a damn about his people wouldn't ask them to die for a foreigner.
20th Dec '16 10:41:17 AM Berrenta
Is there an issue? Send a Message


Alice is faced with two different opinions: Bob strongly believes in one thing, and Charlie in another. The easiest choice would be to simply pick a side-- decide that Bob is right or that Charlie is right. But Alice won't do that. The second easiest choice would be to simply remain neutral and urge them to AgreeToDisagree. But Alice won't do that either. And she will neither [[NoExceptYes pretend that the two opposing views are actually the same thing]], nor [[MetaphoricallyTrue conclude that it's merely a matter of perspective]]. Finally, she will not engage in some extreme mental acrobatics, [[{{Doublethink}} simultaneously but separately agreeing with both opposing views]].

to:

Alice is faced with two different opinions: Bob strongly believes in one thing, and Charlie in another. The easiest choice would be to simply pick a side-- decide that Bob is right or that Charlie is right. But Alice won't do that. The second easiest choice would be to simply remain neutral and urge them to AgreeToDisagree. But Alice won't do that either. And she will neither [[NoExceptYes [[DistinctionWithoutADifference pretend that the two opposing views are actually the same thing]], nor [[MetaphoricallyTrue conclude that it's merely a matter of perspective]]. Finally, she will not engage in some extreme mental acrobatics, [[{{Doublethink}} simultaneously but separately agreeing with both opposing views]].
25th Oct '16 2:04:32 AM Morgenthaler
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The ''Series/{{Frasier}}'' episode ''Dinner At Eight''. On the one hand, Martin is right that Frasier and Niles need to relax and enjoy "normal" things sometimes; but seeing as how their hostess just cut off their (presumably expensive) ties, they have a right to be angry. Or at least very, very annoyed.

to:

* The ''Series/{{Frasier}}'' episode ''Dinner "Dinner At Eight''.Eight". On the one hand, Martin is right that Frasier and Niles need to relax and enjoy "normal" things sometimes; but seeing as how their hostess just cut off their (presumably expensive) ties, they have a right to be angry. Or at least very, very annoyed.
21st Oct '16 5:00:55 PM cybertoy0
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

* ''WesternAnimation/GravityFalls:
** In "Boss Mabel", Stan and Mabel get into an argument on how to run the Mystery Shack. Mabel takes umbrage to Stan's miserly and obnoxious attitude, but Stan believes if you're too nice, people will walk over you. At the end, both are proven correct; Mabel needs to get tough to get any work out of Soos and Wendy, and her liberal refunds policy eats at the Shack's profits. Stan, meanwhile, goes onto a gameshow and loses an easy fortune because he can't be bothered to learn basic manners.
** In "A Tale of Two Stans", Stan and Ford's feud stems from whom they believe has it worse; Stan had spent several years in near-poverty, even doing time in prison, but only because his determination to get rich quick by being a scam artist. Ford, meanwhile, became wracked with paranoia that the supernatural forces of Gravity Falls were out to get him and destroy the world with his research, but he sought out those forces to begin with.
19th Oct '16 8:39:38 AM siberia82
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ''Film/XMen'':
** ''Film/XMen1'' had this trope for the political hearing which Jean Grey debated with politicians concerning mutants. Both sides brought up good points, which was the intention of the director. On the one hand, it is an invasion of privacy and discrimination to demand that all mutants register their names, powers, and identities with the government. On the other, mutants are genuinely superhuman, some of them with ''extremely dangerous'' abilities... abilities that law enforcement needs to know how to protect people from should a mutant decide to abuse his or her powers.

to:

* ''Film/XMen'':
''Film/XMenFilmSeries'':
** ''Film/XMen1'' had this trope for the political Senate hearing which where Dr. Jean Grey debated with politicians concerning mutants. Both sides brought up good points, which was the intention of the director. On the one hand, it is an invasion of privacy and discrimination to demand that all mutants register their names, powers, and identities with the government. On the other, mutants are genuinely superhuman, some of them with ''extremely dangerous'' abilities... abilities that law enforcement needs to know how to protect people from should a mutant decide to abuse his or her powers.



*** When a cure for mutants is introduced, Magneto is primarily wary that humans will 'draw first blood' and use it to forcibly strip mutants of their powers--which is exactly what they do. Unfortunately, he, the Brotherhood and [[spoiler:Jean Grey]] then go on to launch an attack on the cure-production facility ([[spoiler:tearing the Golden Gate Bridge off its foundations in the process]]) with the stated intent of destroying the cure's source -- which happens to be [[spoiler:an innocent teenage boy who is himself a mutant]], thus giving the humans every reason to believe the mutants are exactly as dangerous and destructive as feared.
*** Also when the heroes are discussing taking the cure.
--->'''Storm''': I don't believe this. What sort of coward would take that just to fit in?\\

to:

*** When a cure for mutants is introduced, Magneto is primarily wary that humans will 'draw first blood' and use it to forcibly strip mutants of their powers--which is exactly what they do. Unfortunately, he, the Brotherhood and [[spoiler:Jean Grey]] [[spoiler:the Phoenix]] then go on to launch an attack on the cure-production facility ([[spoiler:tearing the Golden Gate Bridge off its foundations in the process]]) with the stated intent of destroying the cure's source -- which source--which happens to be [[spoiler:an innocent teenage boy who is himself a mutant]], thus giving the humans every reason to believe the that mutants are exactly as dangerous and destructive as feared.
*** Also Also, when the heroes are discussing taking the cure.
--->'''Storm''': ---->'''Storm''': I don't believe this. What sort of coward would take that just to fit in?\\
2nd Aug '16 1:39:41 PM snowydaybro
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** This can also be used for the initial conflict between Xavier and Cyclops. Xavier goes the democratic route, hoping for peace, but the amount of destructive mutants in the world tend to over rule peace talks. Although Magneto does go overboard sometimes (killing innocents, trying to destroy the world, bad stuff) he has a point that a war between mutants and humans was always going to happen. Any time things look like they'll get better, a shady government agency or the sentinels or any human faction will come along and murder a bunch of mutants. Mutants that aren't ready to fight will most surely die. This is one of the reasons he joins Cyclops after Schism.



** This can also be used for the initial conflict between Xavier and Cyclops. Xavier goes the democratic route, hoping for peace, but the amount of destructive mutants in the world tend to over rule peace talks. Although Magneto does go overboard sometimes (killing innocents, trying to destroy the world, bad stuff) he has a point that a war between mutants and humans was always going to happen. Any time things look like they'll get better, a shady government agency or the sentinels or any human faction will come along and murder a bunch of mutants. Mutants that aren't ready to fight will most surely die. This is one of the reasons he joins Cyclops after Schism.

to:

** This can also be used for the initial conflict between Xavier and Cyclops. Xavier goes the democratic route, hoping for peace, but the amount of destructive mutants in the world tend to over rule peace talks. Although Magneto does go overboard sometimes (killing innocents, trying to destroy the world, bad stuff) he has a point that a war between mutants and humans was always going to happen. Any time things look like they'll get better, a shady government agency or the sentinels or any human faction will come along and murder a bunch of mutants. Mutants that aren't ready to fight will most surely die. This is one of the reasons he joins Cyclops after Schism.
2nd Aug '16 1:38:33 PM snowydaybro
Is there an issue? Send a Message



to:

** This can also be used for the initial conflict between Xavier and Cyclops. Xavier goes the democratic route, hoping for peace, but the amount of destructive mutants in the world tend to over rule peace talks. Although Magneto does go overboard sometimes (killing innocents, trying to destroy the world, bad stuff) he has a point that a war between mutants and humans was always going to happen. Any time things look like they'll get better, a shady government agency or the sentinels or any human faction will come along and murder a bunch of mutants. Mutants that aren't ready to fight will most surely die. This is one of the reasons he joins Cyclops after Schism.
30th Jun '16 8:27:58 PM ElectroKraken
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* In ''Film/TransformersAgeOfExtinction'', humans have a good reason for wanting to build anti-Transformer technology since battles has razed cities and killed thousands of innocent people in the crossfire. On the other hand, if left unchecked, Decepticons would easily destroy/enslave humanity, nor did it justify [[spoiler: working with a murderous Cybertronian or killing/experimenting on the good Autobots.]]

to:

* In ''Film/TransformersAgeOfExtinction'', humans have a good reason for wanting to build anti-Transformer technology since battles has have razed cities and killed thousands of innocent people in the crossfire. On the other hand, if left unchecked, Decepticons would easily destroy/enslave humanity, nor did it justify [[spoiler: working with a murderous Cybertronian or killing/experimenting on the good Autobots.]]
4th Jun '16 4:22:10 PM MrThorfan64
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* [[Literature/ArchmaesterGyldaynsHistories "The Dance of the Dragons"]], a historical civil war in the world of "A Song of Ice and Fire". Viserys I declares his daughter from his first marriage, Rhaneyra, as heir. However he continues proclaiming her heir despite having sons from his second marriage. When he dies Rhaenyra and her half-brother Aegon II fight for supremacy. They both have valid points, Viserys proclaimed Rhaenyra his heir and she is older then Aegon. On the other hand, proclaiming a daughter over a son goes completely against the succession laws most of Westeros works on. This is even more strict among the Kings, Viserys only becoming heir to the throne due to his female cousin Rhaenys being passed over (he's the son of the second son, while Rhaenys was daughter of the first son of King Jaehaerys I), a law which was decided upon in the Great Council of the Lords. It doesn't help that Rhaenyra is married to her uncle, the ruthless and roguish Daemon Targaryen, who doesn't at all look like someone who should hold power. However, both claimants show themselves to be poor and brutal rulers, and refuse to compromise, [[when Rhaneyra takes King's Landing she refuses the offer to call another Great Council to determine succession,]] along with both branches of the family murdering other members, Aegon's full brother Aemond murdering one of Rhanyra's sons Lucerys Velaryon, and Daemon avenging his stepsons murder by sending men to murder one of Aegon's infant sons.

to:

* [[Literature/ArchmaesterGyldaynsHistories "The Dance of the Dragons"]], a historical civil war in the world of "A Song of Ice and Fire". Viserys I declares his daughter from his first marriage, Rhaneyra, as heir. However he continues proclaiming her heir despite having sons from his second marriage. When he dies Rhaenyra and her half-brother Aegon II fight for supremacy. They both have valid points, Viserys proclaimed Rhaenyra his heir and she is older then Aegon. On the other hand, proclaiming a daughter over a son goes completely against the succession laws most of Westeros works on. This is even more strict among the Kings, Viserys only becoming heir to the throne due to his female cousin Rhaenys being passed over (he's the son of the second son, while Rhaenys was daughter of the first son of King Jaehaerys I), a law which was decided upon in the Great Council of the Lords. It doesn't help that Rhaenyra is married to her uncle, the ruthless and roguish amoral Daemon Targaryen, who doesn't at all look like someone who should hold power. However, both claimants show themselves to be poor and brutal rulers, and refuse to compromise, [[when [[spoiler:when Rhaneyra takes King's Landing she refuses the offer to call another Great Council to determine succession,]] along with both branches of the family murdering other members, Aegon's full brother Aemond murdering one of Rhanyra's sons Lucerys Velaryon, and Daemon avenging his stepsons murder by sending men to murder one of Aegon's infant sons.sons. Ironically due to Aegon's line dying out Rhaenyra's line gets the Iron Throne, but remains with strict male-line inheritance, Rhaenyra partly ruining her cause with her tyranny.
This list shows the last 10 events of 176. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.BothSidesHaveAPoint