History Main / BothSidesHaveAPoint

13th May '17 9:56:44 PM mlsmithca
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* ''BothSidesHaveAPoint/CaptainAmericaCivilWar''
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* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'':
** Tony believes that the Avengers need to be accountable for their actions, while Steve believes that the heroes themselves are the best ones to make judgement calls. Their experiences in previous films both lend credence to their points of view:
*** Tony's cavalier attitude towards his tech has led to horrible consequences, while Steve has encountered corrupt and incompetent government officials who've made situations worse.
*** What it comes down to is that while the heroes ''might'' not be the best ones to make a judgement call, how can they be sure that anyone they hand the responsibility to would be better?
** On a more personal level, they make several questionable decisions in how they handle the conflict. They ''do'', however, raise several valid points. From Iron Man:
*** He's hounded by the [[spoiler:captured Anti-Accord team for arresting them and sending them to a HellholePrison. While they are indeed given very dubious treatment, Stark points out that he was just doing his duty (as he is under a lot of government pressure), and that the Anti-Accord side should have known what they risked when they aided a known felon]].
*** Likewise, Cap tears into Tony for keeping Wanda under what is essentially house arrest without even telling her, and while Tony's motivations and right to make that call are left dubious, he is right when he says Wanda ''really'' isn't safe amongst the masses right now.
*** Lastly, while Tony was a complete jerk in goading Spider-Man into the conflict, he ''does'' order Peter to keep his distance and just web up his opponents, which Peter ignores. His first scene even depicts him being guilt-shamed by the mother of a Sokovian victim and he presents this to the Avengers as why he thinks they, himself included, need to be kept in check. Tony doesn't start acting irrational until [[MagnificentBastard Zemo's]] schemes ruin any chance of reconciliation between the two sides.
** From Captain America:
*** He seemingly takes the accusations of collateral damage very lightly, but he ''does'' make a valid point saying things would be much, ''much'' worse if the Avengers didn't do anything at all (specifically, the human race would've been conquered by Thanos or HYDRA, or driven extinct by Ultron, either of which is overwhelmingly worse than the collateral damage caused by the Avengers in stopping these from happening).
*** While he may be borderline unreasonable in his desire not to sign the accords (it should be noted that Steve was willing to compromise up until he heard about the situation with Wanda's house arrest), he points out those agreements would turn the Avengers into a bunch of glorified attack dogs, which would only allow him to help people selectively [[note]]the UN, being a politically driven government body, renders the very likely possibility that any regulation of the Avengers' activities could and possibly would be used to forward a political agenda rather than help people, which is the Avengers' primary focus and the main reason they were formed in the first place[[/note]].
*** Additionally, the way the government officials act throughout the film (sending a team after Bucky, who's only a suspect based on circumstantial evidence, with shoot-to-kill orders, refusing to adhere to Steve, Sam, and Bucky's right to legal representation after they're brought in, and [[spoiler:refusing to release the captured Team Cap members and go after Zemo when it's definitively proven he was responsible for the bombing]]) shows that putting them in control of the Avengers would not be the best idea.
*** He also gets a lot of flak for dragging all the other Anti-Accord heroes in his quest to help Bucky, disregarding the fact that each and every one of them made the decision to help Cap themselves, with several of them having their own personal motivations for assisting Cap.
*** [[spoiler:He recognizes that this is not the case with his decision to not tell Tony about the true nature of his parent's deaths; in the letter he sends Tony at the end of the movie, Steve concedes that he fooled himself into thinking he was sparing Tony the pain when it was in fact to spare himself the thought that Bucky might have killed Tony's parents and flat-out admits he was wrong.]]
1st May '17 9:58:54 PM Donquill
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30th Apr '17 1:07:10 PM Rhodes7
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* Similar to the X-Men examples above, the central conflict of ''Literature/TheInfected'' is about the role of the titular Infected (basically, mutants) in society. Many of the objections to the Infected seem rooted in religion and reflexive xenophobia at first, however, the Infected really are unstable (each has an individualized mental disorder called a 'first mode') and dangerous. A major plot point in the first book was how [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds Melanie Miller]], a [[TykeBomb nine-year-old girl]] almost destroys North America through a bad case of PowerIncontinence, and murderous rampages are an almost weekly occurrence. On the other hand, the Infected are certainly correct to be concerned when kids are shot in the street for glowing, [[TorchesAndPitchforks sudden mobs]] turn up when visibly Infected eat out or run to the store, and Congress is debating "concentrating" the Infected population in special [[PuttingOnTheReich camps.]]
10th Apr '17 9:38:45 PM NightShade96
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[[index]]
* ''BothSidesHaveAPoint/CaptainAmericaCivilWar''
[[/index]]
3rd Apr '17 3:06:44 PM TheSinful
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* Xander's and Buffy's gripes with each other in ''[[https://www.tthfanfic.org/Story-32155-7/bakenandeggs+Influenced+Out+of+Normality.htm Influenced Out of Normality]]'' are both acknowledged as being legitimate and both are in the wrong. Xander admits he's been giving Buffy the cold shoulder since she came back and he was wrong to try to ruin her relationship with Angel in the past. Buffy realizes that she should apologize for letting her friends think she was dead for months and that Xander understands her staking Angel since he had to stake Jessie, whom he considered his brother.
1st Apr '17 4:23:51 AM ClatoLawa
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* The ''WesternAnimation/MiraculousLadybug'' fic ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11594010/1 It's Complicated]]'' is kicked off when Chat Noir makes a public declaration of love to Ladybug on a Ladyblog livestream, only to be shot down when Ladybug reveals she likes someone else and then leaves because her transformation is about to run out. Marinette is later shocked when her entire class side with Chat Noir because of how cold Ladybug was and how dejected he looked afterwards, despite her pointing out that he put her on the spot while already knowing that she had to leave urgently. Alya concedes the point after rewatching Ladybug's reaction on the video, as does Chat Noir the next time he sees her. In turn, Ladybug apologises to Chat after realising that he was sincere and it becomes clear this is affecting their partnership. "The way I treated you wasn't right. I totally disregarded your feelings and let my own frustration and anxiety get the better of me. I still think your timing was atrocious, and I don't think it was right of you to put me on the spot like that. However, even if my feelings weren't the same, I shouldn't have treated your feelings like they didn't matter. I'm sorry."
16th Mar '17 11:14:29 PM AnotherEpicFail
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** In "A Tale of Two Stans", Stan and Ford's feud stems from whom they believe has it worse; Stan had spent several years in near-poverty, even doing time in prison, but only because his determination to get rich quick by being a scam artist. Ford, meanwhile, became wracked with paranoia that the supernatural forces of Gravity Falls were out to get him and destroy the world with his research, but he sought out those forces to begin with.

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** In "A Tale of Two Stans", [[spoiler: Stan and Ford's ongoing feud stems from whom the last major argument they believe has it worse; had thirty years ago: Ford had discovered that his scientific research had given Bill Cipher a means of conquering our reality, and wanted Stan's help in hiding his journals; Stan had spent several the last few years in near-poverty, even doing time in prison, but estranged from the family, either imprisoned or homeless, and was upset to discover that Ford only because wanted him back in his determination life to get rich quick by being a scam artist. Ford, meanwhile, became wracked with paranoia that help him hide the supernatural forces of Gravity Falls were out journals. As necessary as hiding the research was, Ford's ego and obsessive focus on the big picture really blew up in his face; the disagreement ultimately led to get him getting shoved into the very dimensional portal he was trying to shut down, and destroy in a desperate attempt to save him, Stan spent the next three decades trying to restart the portal. In the present, Ford wants to keep the world with safe and believes that Stan shouldn't have risked using the portal just to save him; Stan believes that saving his research, but he sought out those forces family was worth anything. Both have a point, and both of them refuse to begin with.budge.]]
15th Mar '17 4:45:25 PM cybertoy0
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* In ''WesternAnimation/TeenageMutantNinjaTurtles2012'', the Turtles get into an argument over how to deal with Leatherhead; Mikey thinks he deserves their sympathy, but the others don't want him in their lair as he's prone to violent rages. Splinter compromises; Leatherhead should be shown compassion, but he should also be kept chained up so his rages won't hurt anyone. "I'm compassionate, not insane."
12th Mar '17 5:10:38 PM eowynjedi
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* The ParentalMarriageVeto that caused all the agony in ''Literature/{{Persuasion}}''. Anne Elliot was persuaded not to marry young naval lieutenant Fredrick Wentworth by her godmother Lady Russell. Anne has come to deeply regret this, having been subsumed by her family troubles and never finding a man equal to him. And to say Wentworth was mad is [[TheResenter a gross understatement]]. However, Lady Russell, though a little prejudiced towards the gentry, did have a point that young Wentworth was UnableToSupportAWife. Anne's father would certainly not have helped them, and Wentworth's belief that he'd capture enough prizes to secure their comfort was rather naive. There was no guarantee a young lieutenant in the Napoleonic Wars would even ''survive'', much less strike it rich, and that Wentworth's optimism bore fruit was mostly a matter of luck.

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* The ParentalMarriageVeto that caused all the agony in ''Literature/{{Persuasion}}''. Anne Elliot was persuaded not to marry young naval lieutenant Captain Fredrick Wentworth by her godmother Lady Russell. Anne has come to deeply regret this, having been subsumed by her family troubles and never finding a man equal to him. And to say Wentworth was mad is [[TheResenter a gross understatement]]. However, Lady Russell, though a little prejudiced towards the gentry, did have a point that young Wentworth was UnableToSupportAWife. Anne's father would certainly not have helped them, and Wentworth's belief assumption that he'd capture enough prizes to secure their comfort was rather naive. There was no guarantee a young lieutenant newly-maded captain in the Napoleonic Wars would even ''survive'', much less strike it rich, and that Wentworth's optimism bore fruit was mostly a matter of luck.
11th Mar '17 1:03:18 AM Nintendoman01
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* ''Series/BuffyTheVampireSlayer'': In "Dead Man's Party," while both sides in the tension between Buffy and her friends and family act like jerks to each other, both also have valid reasons to be upset. While the Scoobies and Joyce weren't wrong to be angry and hurt that Buffy abandoned them without a word, Buffy also had valid reasons to feel isolated and overly-pressured, and that the other Scoobies and Joyce weren't entirely helpful in supporting her with them.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.BothSidesHaveAPoint