History Main / BlueAndOrangeMorality

16th Jan '18 5:54:40 PM BatmanKalEl
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Compare {{Xenofiction}}, HumansAreCthulhu, HumanityIsInfectious (all often involving this), AboveGoodAndEvil, AffablyEvil / FauxAffablyEvil (they sometimes can come across as this), EvenEvilHasStandards (when handled poorly or bizarrely), EvilCannotComprehendGood (less elaborate forms that resemble this in practice), and NonMaliciousMonster (which occasionally requires this). When two sides go to war and nothing will stop them except total annihilation, that's GuiltFreeExterminationWar. If the character genuinely knows everything will turn out okay, allowing the plot to treat them as a good guy no matter how cruel, irresponsible or fascist this makes them by our standards, that's OmniscientMoralityLicense.

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Compare {{Xenofiction}}, HumansAreCthulhu, HumanityIsInfectious (all often involving this), AboveGoodAndEvil, AffablyEvil / FauxAffablyEvil (they sometimes can come across as this), EvenEvilHasStandards (when handled poorly or bizarrely), EvilCannotComprehendGood (less elaborate forms that resemble this in practice), and NonMaliciousMonster (which occasionally requires this).this), and ObliviouslyEvil (when a villain thinks that his actions are acceptable or helpful). When two sides go to war and nothing will stop them except total annihilation, that's GuiltFreeExterminationWar. If the character genuinely knows everything will turn out okay, allowing the plot to treat them as a good guy no matter how cruel, irresponsible or fascist this makes them by our standards, that's OmniscientMoralityLicense.
15th Jan '18 2:06:32 PM merotoker
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* To an extent, this tends to happen when dealing with religious and spiritual matters that one may not be affiliated or familiar with. When an outside perspective is perplexed by the perceived arbitrariness and/or contradiction of a belief, a commonly given answer is that [[InMysteriousWays the higher powers aren't easily understood]] and also that [[HumanityIsFlawed the problem is most likely on our end]]. Thus the best we can do is listen to them and hope for the best. This also comes up in response to the common question of why, in a universe believed to be controlled by a benevolent force, bad things happen to good people. Many philosophies and religions recognize that the needs and wants of an individual and the needs of the universe at large will conflict, and a transcendent being likely isn't exclusively concerned with the former. So while one person might see another's [[ThePowersThatBe Power(s) That Be]] as needlessly cruel for an action that doesn't sit with well with them, that other person would say that it is the right thing to do from their own and their divine entity's standpoint.

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* To an extent, this tends to happen when dealing with religious and spiritual matters that one may not be affiliated or familiar with. When an outside perspective is perplexed by the perceived arbitrariness and/or contradiction of a belief, a commonly given answer is that [[InMysteriousWays the higher powers aren't easily understood]] and also that [[HumanityIsFlawed the problem is most likely on our end]]. Thus the best we can do is listen to them and hope for the best. This also comes up in response to the common question of why, in a universe believed to be controlled by a benevolent force, bad things happen to good people. Many philosophies and religions recognize that the needs and wants of an individual and the needs of the universe at large will conflict, and a transcendent being likely isn't exclusively concerned with the former. So while one person might see another's [[ThePowersThatBe [[PowersThatBe Power(s) That Be]] as needlessly cruel for an action that doesn't sit with well with them, that other person would say that it is the right thing to do from their own and their divine entity's standpoint.



* ''Theatre/CyranoDeBergerac'' shows us a strange example of humans with this type of morality: The [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy Gascons]] believe that ''"Good"'' is to be [[YouthIsWastedOnTheDumb crack–brained]] [[FearlessFool and brave]], [[ImpoverishedPatrician to be poor is a motive for pride,]] [[MartyrdomCulture your autodestructive tendencies are to be not only tolerated but encouraged]], [[JerkAss to treat others like crap is tolerable so long as they are not]] [[OfThePeople Gascons]], [[DeathSeeker and to die in battle is the best destiny your can aspire to]]. ''"Evil"'' is to [[AmbitionIsEvil try to get ahead in life]] [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections by connections]] and [[FalseFriend alliances]] with [[DeadlyDecadentCourt powerful people]], and [[TheDandy to display your riches in public]] [[ArsonMurderAndJayWalking is shameful]] to the point of being declared [[NoTrueScotsman No True Gascon]]. Most of all, DisproportionateRetribution and DisproportionateReward are completely normal conducts.

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* ''Theatre/CyranoDeBergerac'' shows us a strange example of humans with this type of morality: The [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy Gascons]] believe that ''"Good"'' is to be [[YouthIsWastedOnTheDumb crack–brained]] [[FearlessFool and brave]], [[ImpoverishedPatrician to be poor is a motive for pride,]] [[MartyrdomCulture your autodestructive tendencies are to be not only tolerated but encouraged]], [[JerkAss to treat others like crap is tolerable so long as they are not]] [[OfThePeople Gascons]], [[DeathSeeker and to die in battle is the best destiny your can aspire to]]. ''"Evil"'' is to [[AmbitionIsEvil try to get ahead in life]] [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveConnections by connections]] and [[FalseFriend alliances]] with [[DeadlyDecadentCourt [[DecadentCourt powerful people]], and [[TheDandy to display your riches in public]] [[ArsonMurderAndJayWalking is shameful]] to the point of being declared [[NoTrueScotsman No True Gascon]]. Most of all, DisproportionateRetribution and DisproportionateReward are completely normal conducts.
26th Dec '17 1:03:38 AM Scraggle
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And although they are often likely to commit acts we would see as horrific, some are unusually [[HarmlessVillain benign]]. Either way they tend to act as if nothing were the matter. Because in their world/mind, [[ItsWhatIDo that's just what they do]]. This trope is one of the trickier to pull off well, because MostWritersAreHuman, and it's often hard to portray alien and ''truly'' foreign. Because of this, It's not uncommon for audience members to [[MisaimedFandom label]] these characters as [[DesignatedHero Designated Heroes]] or [[DesignatedVillain villains]] due to human audiences often [[HumanityIsYoung lacking the experience]] or [[HumansAreMorons knowledge]] that these fictional characters have. Audiences must remember that these characters are meant to be Morally Ambiguous.

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And although they are often likely to commit acts we would see as horrific, some are unusually [[HarmlessVillain benign]]. Either way they tend to act as if nothing were the matter. Because in their world/mind, [[ItsWhatIDo that's just what they do]]. This trope is one of the trickier to pull off well, because MostWritersAreHuman, and it's often hard to portray alien and ''truly'' foreign. Because of this, It's it's not uncommon for audience members to [[MisaimedFandom label]] these characters as [[DesignatedHero Designated Heroes]] or [[DesignatedVillain villains]] due to human audiences often [[HumanityIsYoung lacking the experience]] or [[HumansAreMorons knowledge]] that these fictional characters have. Audiences must remember that these characters are meant to be Morally Ambiguous.
16th Dec '17 1:50:57 PM WillKeaton
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And although they are often likely to commit acts we would see as horrific, some are unusually [[HarmlessVillain benign]]. Either way they tend to act as if nothing were the matter. Because in their world/mind, [[ItsWhatIDo that's just what they do]]. This trope is one of the trickier to pull off well, because MostWritersAreHuman, and it's often hard to portray alien ''truly'' foreign. Because of this, It's not uncommon for audience members to [[MisaimedFandom label]] these characters as [[DesignatedHero Designated Heroes]] or [[DesignatedVillain villains]] due to human audiences often [[HumanityIsYoung lacking the experience]] or [[HumansAreMorons knowledge]] that these fictional characters have. Audiences must remember that these characters are meant to be Morally Ambiguous.

to:

And although they are often likely to commit acts we would see as horrific, some are unusually [[HarmlessVillain benign]]. Either way they tend to act as if nothing were the matter. Because in their world/mind, [[ItsWhatIDo that's just what they do]]. This trope is one of the trickier to pull off well, because MostWritersAreHuman, and it's often hard to portray alien and ''truly'' foreign. Because of this, It's not uncommon for audience members to [[MisaimedFandom label]] these characters as [[DesignatedHero Designated Heroes]] or [[DesignatedVillain villains]] due to human audiences often [[HumanityIsYoung lacking the experience]] or [[HumansAreMorons knowledge]] that these fictional characters have. Audiences must remember that these characters are meant to be Morally Ambiguous.
17th Sep '17 9:12:52 PM PaulA
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* The girl mentioned in Music/TomLehrer's "The Irish Ballad" is perfectly willing to murder her entire family in cold blood for the simple reason that she is bored, or that she doesn't like them to the point where her murders are referred to as "little pranks" but will not lie when the police comes to investigate.
13th Sep '17 7:23:07 AM WaterBlap
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[[caption-width-right:350:''Ye who walk with the Path of Bacon shall be [[BaconAddiction with dinner blessed]]. Yet ye who follow the Way of Necktie shall be [[SharpDressedMan for dinner dressed]].'']]

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[[caption-width-right:350:''Ye who walk with the Path of Bacon shall be [[BaconAddiction with dinner blessed]].blessed. Yet ye who follow the Way of Necktie shall be [[SharpDressedMan for dinner dressed]].'']]
13th Feb '17 7:16:30 PM Orbiting
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-->-- '''Fanfic/{{Embers}}'''

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-->-- '''Fanfic/{{Embers}}''''''Shidan''', ''Fanfic/{{Embers}}''
5th Feb '17 10:55:41 AM DustSnitch
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Added DiffLines:

* According to the hero's mother in ''WesternAnimation/KuboAndTheTwoStrings'', the Moon Kingdom functions on this. Kubo's aunts and grandfather do care for him and want him happy, but their way of going about it and view of the human world is monstrous to humans - forcibly abducting them from his parents (after [[spoiler:hideously disfiguring one into a beetle]]) and plucking his remaining eye out to make him blind to the mortal realm, which the celestials consider impure and sinful.
9th Dec '16 10:18:38 PM Ikiniks
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* In general and to a lesser extent, this tends to happen with religions, both ancient and modern (not naming any names). When someone gets perplexed by the seeming arbitrariness and contradiction of the dogma, the official answer tends to be that god(s) are incomprehensible and the problem is on your end. The best we can do is obey their inscrutable commands and hope for the best. This also comes up in response to the common question of why, in an ordered universe, bad things happen to good people. Many philosophies and religions recognize that the needs of an individual and the needs of the universe at large simply won't mesh up, and a transcendent being is probably only interested in the latter. So while it might look like your god/gods/spirits are cruel bastards for killing your family with that flood, a believer needs to remember that from a divine standpoint it was probably the right thing to do (e.g. the flood was a necessary evil, or death isn't actually bad, etc.). The OmniscientMoralityLicense trope is all about this.

to:

* In general and to a lesser To an extent, this tends to happen when dealing with religions, both ancient religious and modern (not naming any names). spiritual matters that one may not be affiliated or familiar with. When someone gets an outside perspective is perplexed by the seeming perceived arbitrariness and and/or contradiction of the dogma, the official a belief, a commonly given answer tends to be is that god(s) are incomprehensible [[InMysteriousWays the higher powers aren't easily understood]] and also that [[HumanityIsFlawed the problem is most likely on your end. The our end]]. Thus the best we can do is obey their inscrutable commands listen to them and hope for the best. This also comes up in response to the common question of why, in an ordered universe, a universe believed to be controlled by a benevolent force, bad things happen to good people. Many philosophies and religions recognize that the needs and wants of an individual and the needs of the universe at large simply won't mesh up, will conflict, and a transcendent being is probably only interested in likely isn't exclusively concerned with the latter. former. So while it one person might look like your god/gods/spirits are see another's [[ThePowersThatBe Power(s) That Be]] as needlessly cruel bastards for killing your family an action that doesn't sit with well with them, that flood, a believer needs to remember other person would say that from a divine standpoint it was probably is the right thing to do (e.g. the flood was a necessary evil, or death isn't actually bad, etc.). The OmniscientMoralityLicense trope is all about this.from their own and their divine entity's standpoint.
12th Oct '16 10:15:04 AM LupoCani
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Note that cases involving solely [[PoorCommunicationKills a misapprehension of facts and consequences]] do not count here no matter how alien the reasons; if, for example, a race of aliens thinks [[ImmortalLifeIsCheap killing is okay]] because its own members [[HealingFactor respawn within a day]] with [[DeathIsCheap no harm done]], and [[IThoughtEveryoneCouldDoThat mistake humans as working the same way]], that doesn't mean they wouldn't balk at killing if they realized the degree of harm it causes to other creatures. In this case, they may be working by comprehensible moral standards and just gravely mistaken about the implications of their actions.

to:

Note that cases involving solely [[PoorCommunicationKills a misapprehension of facts and consequences]] do not count here no matter how alien the reasons; if, for example, a race of aliens thinks [[ImmortalLifeIsCheap killing is okay]] because its own members [[HealingFactor respawn within a day]] with [[DeathIsCheap no harm done]], done, and [[IThoughtEveryoneCouldDoThat mistake humans as working the same way]], that doesn't mean they wouldn't balk at killing if they realized the degree of harm it causes to other creatures. In this case, they may be working by comprehensible moral standards and just gravely mistaken about the implications of their actions.
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