History Main / BarSinister

22nd Apr '17 4:07:41 PM cherrychels
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** The bend sinister was also known, but isn't always used; the reversed color pattern is used nearly always. Not all bastard children, even noble-born acknowledged bastard children, are armigerous: Jon Snow, for example -- as a highborn illegitimate son of a lord -- is only entitled to the black shield of the Night's Watch since he joined the Night's Watch. There's no evidence of Ramsay Snow being armigerous before he was legitimized. Walder Rivers, a Frey bastard son, however, has both the bend sinister and the reversed colors.

to:

** The bend sinister was also known, but isn't always used; the reversed color pattern is used nearly always. Not all bastard children, even noble-born acknowledged bastard children, are armigerous: Jon Snow, for example -- as though he is a highborn highborn, acknowledged illegitimate son of a lord -- lord, is only entitled to the black shield of the Night's Watch since he joined the Night's Watch. There's Watch (and this applies to every member of the Watch, no matter what their status is). There is no evidence of Ramsay Snow Snow, bastard son of Roose Bolton, being armigerous before he was legitimized. However, Walder Rivers, a highborn acknowledged Frey bastard son, however, has both the bend sinister and the reversed colors.
22nd Apr '17 4:03:34 PM cherrychels
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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' uses a typical pattern for noble-born, acknowledged bastard sons that manag to gain a coat of arms. Their father's coat of arms with the colors reversed.

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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' uses a typical pattern for noble-born, acknowledged bastard sons that manag to gain use a coat of arms. Their arms -- their noble father's coat of arms with the colors reversed.
22nd Apr '17 4:02:20 PM cherrychels
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* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' uses a typical pattern for bastards that managed to gain a coat of arms. The father's coat of arms with the colors reversed.
** The bend sinister was also known, but wasn't always used; the reversed color pattern was used nearly always. Not all bastards, even acknowledged bastards, were armigerous at all: Jon Snow, for example, was only entitled to a black shield with no sigil as a member of the Night's Watch. There's no evidence of Ramsay Snow being armigerous before he was legitimized. Walder Rivers, a Frey bastard, however, had both the bend sinister and the reversed colors.
** Daemon Blackfyre, founder of the Blackfyre dynasty of pretenders to the Iron Throne, was a bastard son of King Aegon IV and took a black three-headed dragon on red (the reversed Targaryen sigil, a red three-headed dragon on black) as his family's sigil.
** There was another marker of bastardy in the series: a special surname based on the region of birth. The Northmen used "Snow", the Riverlanders used "Rivers", the Crownlanders used "Waters", etc.

to:

* ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' uses a typical pattern for bastards noble-born, acknowledged bastard sons that managed manag to gain a coat of arms. The Their father's coat of arms with the colors reversed.
** The bend sinister was also known, but wasn't isn't always used; the reversed color pattern was is used nearly always. Not all bastards, bastard children, even noble-born acknowledged bastards, were armigerous at all: bastard children, are armigerous: Jon Snow, for example, was example -- as a highborn illegitimate son of a lord -- is only entitled to a the black shield with no sigil as a member of the Night's Watch since he joined the Night's Watch. There's no evidence of Ramsay Snow being armigerous before he was legitimized. Walder Rivers, a Frey bastard, bastard son, however, had has both the bend sinister and the reversed colors.
** Daemon Blackfyre, founder of the Blackfyre dynasty of pretenders to the Iron Throne, was is a bastard son of King Aegon IV and took a black three-headed dragon on red (the reversed Targaryen sigil, a red three-headed dragon on black) as his family's sigil.
** There was is another marker of bastardy in the series: series, albeit it can only be used by highborn bastard children -- it is a special surname based on the region of birth. The Northmen used "Snow", the Riverlanders used "Rivers", the Crownlanders used "Waters", etc. Bastard children of smallfolk have no surnames.
1st Nov '16 7:52:29 PM Pinokio
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Added DiffLines:

[[AC:{{Comic Books}}]]
* ''Bar Sinister'', by Mike Grell, is about a genetically altered superhero team. The first issue's cover is based on the Bar Sinister.
23rd Oct '16 10:08:37 AM Eievie
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->A [[AStormIsComing thick band of clouds]] ran along the horizon. "A bar sinister," he said to Penny, pointing.
->"What does that mean?" she asked.
->"It means some big bastard is creeping up behind us."

to:

->A [[AStormIsComing thick band of clouds]] ran along the horizon. "A bar sinister," he said to Penny, pointing.
->"What
pointing.\\
"What
does that mean?" she asked.
->"It
asked.\\
"It
means some big bastard is creeping up behind us."



1. In heraldry, a ''bar'' is actually a horizontal line. The term for a diagonal line is ''bend'' (in French heraldry, ''barre''). A small diagonal line that doesn't reach the edges of the shield is a ''baton''.

2. There is no standard heraldic symbol for illegitimacy. The baton or bend sinister was used in this way in some places and times, but in other places and times it was completely innocent, and some other indicator was used -- or, depending on the cultural norms, no indicator at all. For instance, in Scottish heraldry, the arms of a bastard were marked by a border around the shield, usually a pattern of alternating white and some other colour, while the French rules varied from region to region, and the Germans rarely ever bothered differencing arms at all.

3. In English heraldry, there were (and are) very strict rules about how a coat of arms was inherited and even stricter and more complicated rules about how they could be used by members of the family of the person to whom the arms were originally granted. In general, though, an illegitimate child would have ''no right'' to bear or inherit the arms of either of their parents at all, no matter how they differenced it (however, an illegitimate child may apply for a grant of arms -- or, if a minor, the parent may do so for him -- and may request that it be based on the parental arms; but the rest is up to the Heralds' College).

to:

1. In #In heraldry, a ''bar'' is actually a horizontal line. The term for a diagonal line is ''bend'' (in French heraldry, ''barre''). A small diagonal line that doesn't reach the edges of the shield is a ''baton''.

2. There
''baton''.
#There
is no standard heraldic symbol for illegitimacy. The baton or bend sinister was used in this way in some places and times, but in other places and times it was completely innocent, and some other indicator was used -- or, depending on the cultural norms, no indicator at all. For instance, in Scottish heraldry, the arms of a bastard were marked by a border around the shield, usually a pattern of alternating white and some other colour, while the French rules varied from region to region, and the Germans rarely ever bothered differencing arms at all.

3. In
all.
#In
English heraldry, there were (and are) very strict rules about how a coat of arms was inherited and even stricter and more complicated rules about how they could be used by members of the family of the person to whom the arms were originally granted. In general, though, an illegitimate child would have ''no right'' to bear or inherit the arms of either of their parents at all, no matter how they differenced it (however, an illegitimate child may apply for a grant of arms -- or, if a minor, the parent may do so for him -- and may request that it be based on the parental arms; but the rest is up to the Heralds' College).
20th Jul '16 1:42:42 PM TimberRidge
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* Averted in ''Literature/VillageTales''. The Royal Stuart quarter in the Duke of Taunton's arms are blazoned in the narrative as being within "a bordure compony of Argent and Azure, the true blue compartments of that bordure bearing each a white and Yorkist rose, a rose Argent barbed and seeded proper: a quarter bare of any bend or baton (unlike that in the first quarter of Rory's Badenoch arms, in which the Stuart Royal Arms in their bordure compony of Gules and Or are further debruised by a baton Argent, marking the celebrated 'double bastardy of Badenoch')...." [Rory is the Marquess of Badenoch, a kinsman of the Duke's.]
16th Jun '16 1:35:45 PM Adeon
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** It doesn't apply to him personally however. The Empire doesn't seem to have any rules regarding bastards and as such he is considered a legal heir to the throne (behind his older half-siblings) despite his parents not being married.
17th Apr '16 7:08:39 PM Divra
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* ''Literature/PrinceRoger'': When the titular character, a bastard son of the Empress of Earth, ends up stranded on a hostile planet and, for various reasons, finds himself raising a regiment of the local aliens (The ''Basik's'' Own), he includes a bar sinister in their colours.
--> You bastard.
--> Literally. ''The Basik's Own'' carries the bar sinister proudly.
9th Apr '16 6:06:24 PM 20person
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** Daemon Blackfyre, founder of the Blackfyre dynasty of pretenders to the Iron Throne, was a bastard son of King Aegon IV and took a black three-headed dragon on red (the reversed Targaryen sigil, a red three-headed dragon on black) as his family's sigil.
5th Feb '16 9:10:53 PM nombretomado
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* In the [[AustralianRulesFootball Australian Football League]], Essendon and Richmond have these on their jumpers.

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* In the [[AustralianRulesFootball [[UsefulNotes/AustralianRulesFootball Australian Football League]], Essendon and Richmond have these on their jumpers.
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