History Main / BadIsGoodAndGoodIsBad

20th Sep '17 1:59:10 AM bfunc
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* The first VillainSong in ''Film/BabesInToyland'' has Barnaby, Gonzorgo, and Roderigo singing cheerfully about how they're "an awful gruesome threesome, and we're rotten to the core".
18th Sep '17 4:03:18 PM JoeMerl
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* Creator/EvaIbbotson is very fond of this. Most of her children's books have an evil creature who is not as evil as they'd like to be. For example, in ''Literature/WhichWitch'', Belladonna is a good witch, who is ashamed of her magic, and wants to be more evil. She is overjoyed when she manages to turn the blossoms that spontaneously grew in her tent into bloodstained thumbscrews. When someone suggests that she cheat in the dark-magic-competition for the dark wizard Arriman's hand, he reasons that "cheating is evil, and he ''wants'' evil, so that's fine".

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* Creator/EvaIbbotson is very fond of this. Most of her children's books have an evil creature who is not as evil as they'd like to be. For example, in ''Literature/WhichWitch'', Belladonna is a good witch, who is ashamed of her magic, and wants to be more evil. She is overjoyed when she manages to turn the blossoms that spontaneously grew in her tent into bloodstained thumbscrews. When someone suggests that she cheat in the dark-magic-competition for the dark wizard Arriman's hand, he reasons that "cheating is evil, and he ''wants'' evil, so that's fine".fine."
** Likewise, ''Literature/TheSecretOfPlatform13'' features Odge, a hag. While her mother and sister are all properly ugly, warty creatures, she looks [[AmbiguouslyHuman distressingly normal]], save for some MismatchedEyes, one blue tooth and a bump on her foot which will ''hopefully'' grow into an extra toe one of these days. Like all hags, she can cast minor curses, but she has to struggle with it a bit.



* In ''Literature/KushielsLegacy'', The Mahrkagir's motto is "Ill thoughts, ill words, ill deeds", in homage to the [[GodOfEvil evil]] [[TheAntiGod Anti-God]] he worships. Ironically, it bars him from his own god's priesthood, since prospective members have to [[IfYoureSoEvilEatThisKitten eat a loved one's heart]] and he [[WhatIsThisThingYouCallLove doesn't even know what love is]]. [[spoiler:In a further irony, as soon as he falls in love with Phèdre for that exact purpose, she kills him.]]

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* In ''Literature/KushielsLegacy'', The Mahrkagir's motto is "Ill thoughts, ill words, ill deeds", in homage to the [[GodOfEvil evil]] [[TheAntiGod Anti-God]] he worships. Ironically, it bars him from his own god's priesthood, since prospective members have to [[IfYoureSoEvilEatThisKitten eat a loved one's heart]] and he [[WhatIsThisThingYouCallLove doesn't even know what love is]]. [[spoiler:In a further irony, as soon as he falls in love with Phèdre for that exact purpose, she kills him.]]him]].
13th Aug '17 6:04:17 PM Fireblood
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* ''Series/Preacher2016'': Hell's administration enforces this by punishing any of the damned who show kindness or help others. They have a standard to uphold.
9th Aug '17 8:29:58 PM lalalei2001
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* The villains for the ''PJSparkles'' pilot cartoon are probably the most distilled version of this trope. The Cloak and his wife Betty revel in the dreary Twinkle Town, enjoy spreading filth, and get a headache and indigestion, respectively, when exposed to sunlight. So they're not pleased to find that PJ has suddenly made Twinkle Town match its name.

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* The villains for the ''PJSparkles'' ''WesternAnimation/PJSparkles'' pilot cartoon are probably the most distilled version of this trope. The Cloak and his wife Betty revel in the dreary Twinkle Town, enjoy spreading filth, and get a headache and indigestion, respectively, when exposed to sunlight. So they're not pleased to find that PJ has suddenly made Twinkle Town match its name.
27th Jul '17 3:13:06 PM WillKeaton
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* In ''Series/LazyTown'', one of Robbie Rotten's songs is [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4CTC_01mAQ "Good to be Bad"]].

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* In ''Series/LazyTown'', one of Robbie Rotten's songs is [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4CTC_01mAQ "Good to be Bad"]].Bad."]]
27th Jul '17 3:12:30 PM WillKeaton
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Compare AboveGoodAndEvil and WhatIsEvil. Villains whose strong point is not logic will sometimes use both tropes to justify this. See also BizarroUniverse, BlueAndOrangeMorality, and NaughtyIsGood. Not to be confused with SoBadItsGood.

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Compare AboveGoodAndEvil and WhatIsEvil. WhatIsEvil Villains whose strong point is not logic will sometimes use both tropes to justify this. See also BizarroUniverse, BlueAndOrangeMorality, and NaughtyIsGood. Not to be confused with SoBadItsGood.
5th Jul '17 6:48:42 PM Evalana
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* Used in an episode of ''WesternAnimation/DorothyAndTheWizardOfOz'', with the wicked witch of the west calling [[ChasteToons her niece]], Wilhelmina, a good girl, "and by good I mean bad." This causes one of the flying monkeys to get confused when she asks them to follow Wilhelmina and make sure she's up to no good.
14th Jun '17 11:56:05 AM Jeduthun
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Sometimes it isn't enough for a villain to be [[ObviouslyEvil evil]]. They [[SlaveToPR have to prove their evilness]] by [[GoodHurtsEvil eschewing all that is good]] and [[EvilFeelsGood embracing all that is bad]]. They'll eat [[TrademarkFavoriteFood foods that disgust the good guys]] and [[TheFunInFuneral laugh at funerals]]. They may also carry this over to their speech, making sure to only use negative phrases when most people would use a positive one, and correcting themselves if they "slip" ("Oh, goody! I mean, 'baddy.'") They'll [[KickTheDog kick puppies for sport]], and describe things as repulsive [[InsultBackfire like it's a good thing]]. They often describe sunny weather as depressing. They may be plagued by a MinionWithAnFInEvil.

Makes YourHeadASplode if you think about it too much.

Can also be why EvilCannotComprehendGood. If they simply loathe all positive attributes without necessarily emphasizing their negative ones, they're probably more of a believer in VirtueIsWeakness.

See NightmareFetishist for the non-evil version. Not to be confused with SoBadItsGood.

Compare AboveGoodAndEvil and WhatIsEvil. Villains whose strong point is not logic will sometimes use both tropes to justify this. See also BizarroUniverse, BlueAndOrangeMorality, and NaughtyIsGood.

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Sometimes it isn't enough for a villain to be [[ObviouslyEvil evil]]. They [[SlaveToPR have to prove their evilness]] by [[GoodHurtsEvil eschewing all that is good]] and [[EvilFeelsGood embracing all that is bad]]. They'll eat [[TrademarkFavoriteFood [[StockYuck foods that disgust the good guys]] and [[TheFunInFuneral laugh at funerals]]. They may also carry this over to their speech, making sure to only use negative phrases when most people would use a positive one, and correcting themselves if they "slip" ("Oh, goody! I mean, 'baddy.'") They'll [[KickTheDog kick puppies for sport]], and describe things as repulsive [[InsultBackfire like it's a good thing]]. They often describe sunny weather as depressing. They may also be prone to do things purely ForTheEvulz, even [[EvilIsPetty petty things]] like [[ThrewMyBikeOnTheRoof throwing some kids' bikes on the roof]]. They may be plagued by a MinionWithAnFInEvil.

MinionWithAnFInEvil.

Makes YourHeadASplode if you [[LogicBomb think about it too much.

much]].

Can also be why EvilCannotComprehendGood. If they simply loathe all positive attributes without necessarily emphasizing their negative ones, they're probably more of a believer in VirtueIsWeakness.

VirtueIsWeakness.

Quite likely to appear in a PerspectiveFlip if we see things [[VillainProtagonist from the villain's point of view]].

See NightmareFetishist for the non-evil version. Not to be confused with SoBadItsGood.\n\n

Compare AboveGoodAndEvil and WhatIsEvil. Villains whose strong point is not logic will sometimes use both tropes to justify this. See also BizarroUniverse, BlueAndOrangeMorality, and NaughtyIsGood.
NaughtyIsGood. Not to be confused with SoBadItsGood.
8th May '17 7:29:34 AM StFan
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-->--'''Satan''', ''Literature/ParadiseLost''

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-->--'''Satan''', -->-- '''Satan''', ''Literature/ParadiseLost''



A common trait of {{Card Carrying Villain}}s.

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A common trait of {{Card Carrying Villain}}s.
[[CardCarryingVillain Card-Carrying Villains]].






* In ''Franchise/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'', the MirrorUniverse of the Crime Syndicate of Amerika works this way. People talk about "Moloch below" and swear by the Antichrist in casual conversation.
** It's more like "Bad is Good and Good is Weak" though.

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* In ''Franchise/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'', the MirrorUniverse of the Crime Syndicate of Amerika works this way. People talk about "Moloch below" and swear by the Antichrist in casual conversation.
**
conversation. It's more like "Bad is Good and Good is Weak" Weak," though.



[[folder:Fan Fiction]]
* In ''[[FanFic/ThreeSlytherinMarauders 3 Slytherin Marauders]]'' Tom Riddle is terribly embarrassed about being sorted into Gryffindor- the house of "goodie-two shoes" and "cannon fodder."
-->'''Sorting Hat:''' I can see you learned quite well all the cunning you could ever need during your last stay in [[SchoolForScheming Slytherin.]]
-->'''[[TheAtoner Tom Riddle:]]''' What are you doing, Hat?
-->'''Sorting Hat:''' You already show commendable loyalty and you certainly strive toward academic achievements without needing any urging. [[VillainousValour And while you have plenty of courage...]] you might benefit from learning that being straightfoward in some dealings isn't all bad.
-->'''Tom Riddle:''' [[BigNo No!]]
-->'''Sorting Hat:''' Gryffindor!

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[[folder:Fan Fiction]]
Works]]
* In ''[[FanFic/ThreeSlytherinMarauders 3 Slytherin Marauders]]'' ''Fanfic/ThreeSlytherinMarauders'', Tom Riddle is terribly embarrassed about being sorted into Gryffindor- Gryffindor -- the house of "goodie-two shoes" and "cannon fodder."
fodder".
-->'''Sorting Hat:''' I can see you learned quite well all the cunning you could ever need during your last stay in [[SchoolForScheming Slytherin.]]
-->'''[[TheAtoner
]]\\
'''[[TheAtoner
Tom Riddle:]]''' What are you doing, Hat?
-->'''Sorting
Hat?\\
'''Sorting
Hat:''' You already show commendable loyalty and you certainly strive toward academic achievements without needing any urging. [[VillainousValour And while you have plenty of courage...]] you might benefit from learning that being straightfoward in some dealings isn't all bad.
-->'''Tom
bad.\\
'''Tom
Riddle:''' [[BigNo No!]]
-->'''Sorting
No!]]\\
'''Sorting
Hat:''' Gryffindor!



[[folder:Films -- Animated]]

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[[folder:Films -- Animated]]Animation]]



* The inhabitants of Halloweentown in ''WesternAnimation/TheNightmareBeforeChristmas''. They say "How awful" when they see something they like and Dr. Finklestein says "Curiosity killed the cat" when he is praising Jack for wanting to do scientific research.
** Subverted when Jack's girlfriend Sally is - in all seriousness - trying to tell him that his plan to take over the Christmas holiday will likely end in disaster, which is something he does ''not'' want.
--> '''Sally:''' Jack, I just had the most horrible vision!
--> '''Jack [misunderstanding]:''' Wonderful!

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* The inhabitants of Halloweentown in ''WesternAnimation/TheNightmareBeforeChristmas''. They say "How awful" when they see something they like and Dr. Finklestein says "Curiosity killed the cat" when he is praising Jack for wanting to do scientific research.
**
research. Subverted when Jack's girlfriend Sally is - -- in all seriousness - -- trying to tell him that his plan to take over the Christmas holiday will likely end in disaster, which is something he does ''not'' want.
--> '''Sally:''' -->'''Sally:''' Jack, I just had the most horrible vision!
--> '''Jack [misunderstanding]:'''
vision!\\
'''Jack:''' ''[misunderstanding]''
Wonderful!



* In ''WesternAnimation/TransformersTheMovie'', the Quintesson court sends defendants plummeting to certain death in the Sharkticon tank by finding them "innocent".

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* In ''WesternAnimation/TransformersTheMovie'', ''WesternAnimation/TheTransformersTheMovie'', the Quintesson court sends defendants plummeting to certain death in the Sharkticon tank by finding them "innocent".



-->'''Evil:''' Suddenly, I feel very, very good.
-->'''Benson:''' Oh, I'm sorry, Master.
-->'''Evil:''' No, it'll pass, it'll pass.

to:

-->'''Evil:''' Suddenly, I feel very, very good.
-->'''Benson:'''
good.\\
'''Benson:'''
Oh, I'm sorry, Master.
-->'''Evil:'''
Master.\\
'''Evil:'''
No, it'll pass, it'll pass.



* Meg in ''{{Series/Supernatural}}'' revels in being a demon and serving Lucifer in earlier seasons and expresses a distaste for her turn toward helping the heroes in later seasons. She also finds a dash of the dark side an attractive quality in Castiel, the angel.
-->'''Meg''': (to Castiel) I'm kinda good, which sucks. And you're kinda bad, which is actually all manner of hot.

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* Meg in ''{{Series/Supernatural}}'' ''Series/{{Supernatural}}'' revels in being a demon and serving Lucifer in earlier seasons and expresses a distaste for her turn toward helping the heroes in later seasons. She also finds a dash of the dark side an attractive quality in Castiel, the angel.
-->'''Meg''': (to Castiel) -->'''Meg:''' ''[to Castiel]'' I'm kinda good, which sucks. And you're kinda bad, which is actually all manner of hot.



[[folder:Mythology & Religion]]

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[[folder:Mythology [[folder:Myths & Religion]]



[[folder:Professional Wrestling]]

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[[folder:Professional [[folder:Pro Wrestling]]



[[folder:Videogames]]

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[[folder:Videogames]][[folder:Video Games]]



--> '''Eddie''': By your good graces-
--> Whole thing falls down
--> '''Eddie''': Evil, I meant evil graces! Aah, sonofa-

to:

--> '''Eddie''': -->'''Eddie:''' By your good graces-
--> Whole
graces--\\
''[whole
thing falls down
--> '''Eddie''':
down]''\\
'''Eddie:'''
Evil, I meant evil graces! Aah, sonofa-sonofa--



[[folder:Webcomics]]

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[[folder:Webcomics]][[folder:Web Comics]]



--> '''Agatha:''' Nah, you did '''good'''. \\

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--> '''Agatha:''' --->'''Agatha:''' Nah, you did '''good'''. \\



* A long defunct webcomic called ''Webcomic/BardsTale'' featured a god of evil and his daughter, who invariably spoke like this.

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* A long defunct long-defunct webcomic called ''Webcomic/BardsTale'' featured a god of evil and his daughter, who invariably spoke like this.



'''Daughter:''' ''with cheery smile'' I hate you, too, daddy!

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'''Daughter:''' ''with ''[with cheery smile'' smile]'' I hate you, too, daddy!



-->'''Evil T-Rex''': I love being bad--I mean, I love being good! Because "bad" is "good" to us! And by "us," I mean the entire universe.

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-->'''Evil T-Rex''': T-Rex:''' I love being bad--I mean, I love being good! Because "bad" is "good" to us! And by "us," I mean the entire universe.



* ''Webcomic/DanAndMabsFurryAdventures'': Demons have a weird sort of BlueAndOrangeMorality that sits on the borderline between this and MightMakesRight. So destroying things and killing/eating people because you feel like it is good, but restraining yourself and caring what others thing about is bad.

to:

* ''Webcomic/DanAndMabsFurryAdventures'': ''Webcomic/DanAndMabsFurryAdventures'':
**
Demons have a weird sort of BlueAndOrangeMorality that sits on the borderline between this and MightMakesRight. So destroying things and killing/eating people because you feel like it is good, but restraining yourself and caring what others thing about is bad.



-->'''Lorenda''': I hate you! I'm going to my room!
-->'''Kria''': Lorenda! You get back down here and throw a tantrum in this room full of rare fragile vases or else!

to:

-->'''Lorenda''': --->'''Lorenda:''' I hate you! I'm going to my room!
-->'''Kria''':
room!\\
'''Kria:'''
Lorenda! You get back down here and throw a tantrum in this room full of rare fragile vases or else!



* Sabine and Nale in [[http://www.GiantITP.com/comics/oots0794.html this]] strip of ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'' have the standard AllGirlsWantBadBoys vs. SingleWomanSeeksGoodMan conversation, but entirely flipped. ("Sure, women like me swoon for a hero, but that's only because deep down, we think we can change them.")

to:

* Sabine and Nale in [[http://www.GiantITP.com/comics/oots0794.html this]] strip of ''Webcomic/TheOrderOfTheStick'' have the standard AllGirlsWantBadBoys vs. SingleWomanSeeksGoodMan conversation, but entirely flipped. ("Sure, flipped.
-->'''Sabine:''' Sure,
women like me swoon for a hero, but that's only because deep down, we think we can change them.")



* In ''Webcomic/{{Homestuck}}'', Caliborn claims that spewing abuse at Jane is the cherub equivalent of complimenting her, since cherubs don't have positive emotions. She's not convinced.
** It also turns out he's unable to even type positive words. If he tries to, it quickly becomes random button mashing.

to:

* In ''Webcomic/{{Homestuck}}'', Caliborn claims that spewing abuse at Jane is the cherub equivalent of complimenting her, since cherubs don't have positive emotions. She's not convinced.
**
convinced. It also turns out he's unable to even type positive words. If he tries to, it quickly becomes random button mashing.



'''Drakken:''' ''(dismayed)'' Do ''not'' make me say those words!

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'''Drakken:''' ''(dismayed)'' ''[dismayed]'' Do ''not'' make me say those words!



29th Apr '17 9:20:51 AM CyberTiger88
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* ''WebAnimation/TerribleWritingAdvice'' discusses tropes and cliches to provide [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin terrible writing advice]] as good advice in a sarcastic fashion. The narrator frequently says that any deep and meaningful discussions should be avoided at all costs, especially if it gets in the way of the RomanticPlotTumor.
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