History Main / ArbitraryHeadCountLimit

28th Nov '16 5:29:42 PM wentesur
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* You can have only up to 4 active party members in ''[[VideoGame/KisekiSeries Legend of Heroes Series]]'' with several variations among different arcs. All of them have segments where several party members are mandatory.
** [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfHeroesTrailsInTheSky Liberl Arc (FC, SC and the 3rd)]] strictly limits your active members to four and you are mostly forced to bring two main characters (Estelle and Joshua in the first two games and Kevin and Ries in the last), leaving you little room for party member building.
*** FC starts out with Estelle and Joshua travelling the nation as their training to become a full-fledged bracer so helpers in each branch they visit (in this case, chapter) come and go until they are fully availabe during final dungeon.
*** SC increases the total to 12, but three of them are available only in the game's final dungeon. There are also two [[GuestStarPartyMember guest star party members]] who is available only in prologue and certain segment in one chapter and the other one only available in latter. The game this time allows you to costumize the party earlier. Estelle is still mandatory since she's the main character and the second slot depends on your choice at the end of the prologue which eventually be filled by [[spoiler:Joshua]] after chapter 6.
*** By the end of The 3rd, you have 16 switchable party members you will all use by the final dungeon. Two main characters of this game (Kevin and Ries) cannot leave the party most of the time except during several part of the story until they both can be switched out late in the game.
** [[VideoGame/ZeroNoKiseki Crossbell Arc (Zero and Ao)]] increases its limit to six; Four active party member and two others you can switch in between battles. The two standby members can occasionally help by casting exclusive support/attack crafts when their turn come comes during combat, although they are pretty much controlled by AI and appears only during that time. You can't switch during battle however.
*** ''Zero no Kiseki'' has 4 permanent party members; Lloyd, Elie, Tio and Randy. Others are only available during small portion of the game, but eventually will come back during sequel except for two characters.
*** ''Ao no Kiseki'' has a total of 8 endgame party members; You begin with four people, two join midgame and two become mandatory temporary members who eventually join. In arranging the party, you have to bring the four permanent members from the first half.
** [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfHeroesTrailsOfColdSteel Erebonia Arc (I, II, and III in future release)]] turns it into seven; Four active party members and three other you can swith in and out of so far has one thing in common: You will almost have Rean, the main character, in your party and you can't swith him out. Of course in certain parts, several party members become mandatory.
*** ''Cold Steel I'' has a segment where you travel to various parts of Erebonia as part of curriculum called "Field Study". The party has been assigned by default and you can't change during the segment. However, you can choose your team when exploring old schoolhouse building.
*** ''Cold Steel II'' has 18 members after the finale[[note]]You end up with 11 party members at the final dungeon, but there's a playable epilogue[[/note]] which consists of your core members and helpers during the game. There are also 5 secret playable characters that can be used by "replacing" your members.
28th Nov '16 10:19:25 AM AKITN
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** In ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', you can never have more than four humans on the field (counting the main character).

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** In ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', you can never have more than four humans on the field (counting the main character). In [[DevilSurvivor2 the sequel,]] while this is played straight in most occasions, there are points in the plot where the limit is justified by the characters splitting up into teams as part of a strategic operation.


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* In ''VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles'', only three characters can fight at the same time, with the others sitting it out. Even when your main party bites it, there is no option to have the others reinforce your or tag in. Rather egregious when cutscenes pretty blatantly imply ''everyone'' is deep in the action. This is presumably in order to reinforce the notion of the Chain Attack mechanic, where the team surrounds one foe and beat it up with their arts in sequence.
** In ''VideoGame/XenobladeChroniclesX'', although you can eventually end up with ''17'' different people to invite into your party, you may only deploy four characters into the field. [[CantDropTheHero And one of those must be]] [[PlayerCharacter Rook/Cross]]. And during most Story and Affinity Missions, you are also forced to bring certain members with you, and may in fact even be ''forbidden'' from bringing four people with you! Ironically enough, this doesn't really bother most of the players due to the fact that the PlayerCharacter can [[OneManArmy become strong enough to solo most of the game by him/herself,]] or that [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome most people will have their party]] [[MiniMecha in Skells]] [[ComplacentGamingSyndrome once they become available.]]
28th Nov '16 9:50:42 AM AKITN
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** Played with in ''VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia'' when after defeating the [[SummonMagic Summon Spirit]] [[DishingOutDirt Gnome]], he complains that the party took him "four against one", while his previous summoner [[spoiler:Mithos]] took him [[{{Badass}} one-on-one.]] This when your party consists of eight people, half of which apparently stood aside and let your main group fight him alone, and when nearly every other plot fight acts like everyone jumped into the melee.


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** ''VideoGame/TalesOfZestiria'' justifies this due to the unique nature of your party: namely, most of them are actually spirits, and require a human partner in order to fight most effectively, and you only have two playable humans max at any time. [[note]]Sorey, who is TheHero, and either [[GuestStarPartyMember Alisha]] or [[TheLancer Rose]], depending on where you are in the plot.[[/note]] This is especially true when one of the core mechanics of the battle system is Armatization, which triggers a FusionDance between the human and the current spirit partner into a new spirit-dependent form with unique abilities. Also, for the same reason, [[PartyInMyPocket the spirit partners actually all travel]] ''[[PartyInMyPocket within]]'' [[PartyInMyPocket Sorey's body,]] meaning that you can freely switch them out at any time in battle, and that technically, everyone ''is'' in battle at the same time, just not always actively participating. This is ''also'' justified by the game's premise. [[note]]The Spirits use Sorey as a vessel to protect themselves from [[TheCorruption the malevolence]], which could [[spoiler:irreversibly turn them into Dragons if they fully succumb to the corruption.]][[/note]] As you can tell, this game [[UpToEleven does its damned best]] to [[GameplayAndStoryIntegration integrate its plot with its gameplay quirks.]]


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** [[GoldenSunDarkDawn The sequel]] follows in the same footsteps, with the only caveat being that you obtain your fifth to eight party members gradually rather than all at once like in ''The Lost Age''. All the other mechanics still apply.


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** Even with attempts to justify its final chapter unit limit, 10 is hit pretty hard with this since, [[FinalDeath provided you didn't allow anyone to die]], and recruited every possible character, you'll have '''over 70 different units''' by the endgame (the largest canon army of playable characters in the series so far!), but can only bring '''17''' with you. Most likely, over half the spots will be taken by mandatory characters (Ike, Micaiah, Sothe, etc) and [[OneManArmy the]] [[GameBreaker Laguz]] [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking Royals]], with the rest being whatever characters you fancied enough to grind into total badasses.
18th Nov '16 12:56:08 PM ashlay
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** ''VideoGame/Persona4'' looks like it has a similar set up as the previous game... but then the entire party inexplicably shows up in the final room of each dungeon. There is, admittedly, a portal leading there from the lobby.
*** It's at least partially explained when you revisit a dungeon. Occasionally, members of your party that aren't actually with you can randomly appear in an empty room of the dungeon. It's implied that they've formed an independent B-team and fight Shadows in other parts of the dungeon. Of course, you never see the products of this endeavor.

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** ''VideoGame/Persona4'' looks like it has a similar set up as the previous game... but then the entire party inexplicably shows up in the final room of each dungeon. There is, admittedly, a portal leading there from the lobby. \n*** It's at least partially explained when you revisit a dungeon. Occasionally, members of your party that aren't actually with you can randomly appear in an empty room of the dungeon. It's implied that they've formed an independent B-team and fight Shadows in other parts of the dungeon. Of course, you never see the products of this endeavor.endeavor.
** ''VideoGame/{{Persona 5}}'': Only lets you take 4 party members into a fight, despite recruiting up to 9 members into your BadassCrew. Resident MrExposition, Morgana, attempts to HandWave this by saying you're more likely to get noticed on your PhantomThief heists if you have too many people, but as you can eventually switch characters in-and-out of the party even mid-battle, it doesn't make much sense.
18th Nov '16 7:12:56 AM HighCrate
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* Many public buildings have signs to the effect of "Occupancy by more than X persons is dangerous and unlawful", for safety reasons. You don't want an excessive throng of people clogging each other up from escaping the building in an emergency.
18th Nov '16 6:12:19 AM HighCrate
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*** In the Operation:Anchorage DLC, you are tasked with leading a squad to several objectives and eliminating the Commies therein. You have an amount of tokens, and different kinds of troops use different numbers of tokens depending on how strong they are. For example, a soldier with a rifle will take up 1 token, while a Mr. Gutsy will take up 5. The reason supplied is that too large a force will tip off the Commies that you're attacking.

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*** In the Operation:Anchorage DLC, you are tasked with leading a squad to several objectives and eliminating the Commies therein. You have an amount a limited number of tokens, and different kinds of troops use different numbers of tokens depending on how strong they are. For example, a soldier with a rifle will take up 1 token, while a Mr. Gutsy will take up 5. The reason supplied is that too large a force will tip off the Commies that you're attacking.



* ''VideoGame/MountAndBlade'' has a limit to the amount of lieutenants and soldiers that can be added to the party at any one time. However, this limit can be increased by raising your charisma statistic when you level up, or by increasing your renown by winning battles, and there is no upper limit on how high you can raise your party cap.

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* ''VideoGame/MountAndBlade'' has a limit to the amount number of lieutenants and soldiers that can be added to the party at any one time. However, this limit can be increased by raising your charisma statistic when you level up, or by increasing your renown by winning battles, and there is no upper limit on how high you can raise your party cap.



* ''VideoGame/{{Postal}} 2'' has a form of this - there is an option to limit the amount of people spawned in one map area at a time, to prevent overloading and causing the game to crash. Depending on the player's setup, one can increase that number for more carnage.

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* ''VideoGame/{{Postal}} 2'' has a form of this - there is an option to limit the amount number of people spawned in one map area at a time, to prevent overloading and causing the game to crash. Depending on the player's setup, one can increase that number for more carnage.



* Since ''VideoGame/SorcererKing'' lacks a gold resource for unit upkeep, it instead has "logistics", a straight cap on the amount of units you can produce at your cities and have on the field at any one time. [[ExactWords Note the wording]] - units not deliberately produced (such as quest rewards) don't have a logistics cost. Logistics as a hard cap to raise, so this distinction is vital.

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* Since ''VideoGame/SorcererKing'' lacks a gold resource for unit upkeep, it instead has "logistics", a straight cap on the amount number of units you can produce at your cities and have on the field at any one time. [[ExactWords Note the wording]] - units not deliberately produced (such as quest rewards) don't have a logistics cost. Logistics as a hard cap to raise, so this distinction is vital.



** This can be extended to 200 per player in the multiplayer mode (since each unit counts as 1, this limit is almost never reached), and the amount of units placed in the campaign editor is limited only by the power of the computer running the game.

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** This can be extended to 200 per player in the multiplayer mode (since each unit counts as 1, this limit is almost never reached), and the amount number of units placed in the campaign editor is limited only by the power of the computer running the game.



* ''VideoGame/SupremeCommander'', TA's spiritual sequel, has a default limit of 500 in multiplayer/skirmish games. It can be increased up to 1000, and also decreased to 250 (for the unlucky ones whose computers can't handle the amount of units in a capped-to-500 game. This tends to be particularly annoying in the last campaign missions, some of which '''start you off''' with 300 or more units and a maximum cap of 500. Editing the game files can theoretically increase the unit limit to arbitrary numbers, but the frame rate really starts suffering (even on high-end systems) after 800 or so, and going much above 1000 is guaranteed to cause a crash.

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* ''VideoGame/SupremeCommander'', TA's spiritual sequel, has a default limit of 500 in multiplayer/skirmish games. It can be increased up to 1000, and also decreased to 250 (for the unlucky ones whose computers can't handle the amount number of units in a capped-to-500 game. This tends to be particularly annoying in the last campaign missions, some of which '''start you off''' with 300 or more units and a maximum cap of 500. Editing the game files can theoretically increase the unit limit to arbitrary numbers, but the frame rate really starts suffering (even on high-end systems) after 800 or so, and going much above 1000 is guaranteed to cause a crash.



** Certain units are also capped; you can only ever deploy a single King Tiger to the battlefield in a game, and it costs an insane amount of resources to deploy as well as a considerable amount of your population cap.

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** Certain units are also capped; you can only ever deploy a single King Tiger to the battlefield in a game, and it costs an insane amount of resources to deploy as well as a considerable amount percentage of your population cap.



* ''Franchise/{{Star Wars|Expanded Universe}}: VideoGame/EmpireAtWar'' and its expansion are interesting with this. There is both a population cap and a reinforcements cap. The population cap increase with every planet captured and every Space Station built and/or upgraded. The larger and more powerful a unit is, the more population it takes up (but heroes always take only one point). However, the tactical battle cap is different. In Space Battles, one can bring in 20 (Empire) or 25 (Rebellion) points' worth of ships, with each starship/fighter squadron/hero requiring the same amount of points they require in the Galactic Map. Land units always take one point (but most consist of multiple troops/vehicles), and there's a different system: the defender's limited to ten units, while the attacker is limited by the number of Reinforcement Points they capture; each contains a different number of points, and they are still limited to ten population points.
* ''VideoGame/SinsOfASolarEmpire'' has this in spades. Your total number of ships is capped by a number called "supply", with different chips accounting for different amounts (a scout frigate might need 2, while an assult corvette could be 7 or 8). This limit starts out at 100 and can be increased with research, though doing so increases the upkeep deducted from your resource income. Then there are capital ships, which need a whopping fifty supply, ''and'' are limited by how many crews you have avaliable to man such sophisticated ships, which can again be increased with research. Each planet can also support only a limited number of logistic and military structures, and while this can be increased on a planet-by-planet basis, the highest possible cap is determined by planet type (a fully-developed asteroid can support fewer structures than a fully-developed terran planet, for instance).

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* ''Franchise/{{Star Wars|Expanded Universe}}: VideoGame/EmpireAtWar'' and its expansion are interesting with this. There is both a population cap and a reinforcements cap. The population cap increase with every planet captured and every Space Station built and/or upgraded. The larger and more powerful a unit is, the more population it takes up (but heroes always take only one point). However, the tactical battle cap is different. In Space Battles, one can bring in 20 (Empire) or 25 (Rebellion) points' worth of ships, with each starship/fighter squadron/hero requiring the same amount number of points they require in the Galactic Map. Land units always take one point (but most consist of multiple troops/vehicles), and there's a different system: the defender's limited to ten units, while the attacker is limited by the number of Reinforcement Points they capture; each contains a different number of points, and they are still limited to ten population points.
* ''VideoGame/SinsOfASolarEmpire'' has this in spades. Your total number of ships is capped by a number called "supply", with different chips accounting for different amounts ships costing more or less (a scout frigate might need 2, while an assult corvette could be 7 or 8). This limit starts out at 100 and can be increased with research, though doing so increases the upkeep deducted from your resource income. Then there are capital ships, which need a whopping fifty supply, ''and'' are limited by how many crews you have avaliable to man such sophisticated ships, which can again be increased with research. Each planet can also support only a limited number of logistic and military structures, and while this can be increased on a planet-by-planet basis, the highest possible cap is determined by planet type (a fully-developed asteroid can support fewer structures than a fully-developed terran planet, for instance).



* ''VideoGame/StarWarsRebellion'' has "maintenance points". Every planet you control gives you a certain amount of maintenance points. Planets also generate raw materials in their mines. Raw materials can then be refined with refineries; you have to pay a one-time cost in refined materials, but it also takes maintenance points, which return to you after the object is destroyed. You're further limited to eight ''groups'' of capital ships and four ''groups'' of starfighters. But that's not an actual limit on the size of your fleet; it just means you start having to conflate different ones. (In the case of starfighters, they're typically arranged by model, with the most popular model being split into two or three (or if all that model, four, as can happen when you're the Empire and your only decent fighter is the TIE Defender) groups. Finally, you can only have one Commander, Admiral, and General in a given fleet.

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* ''VideoGame/StarWarsRebellion'' has "maintenance points". Every planet you control gives you a certain amount number of maintenance points. Planets also generate raw materials in their mines. Raw materials can then be refined with refineries; you have to pay a one-time cost in refined materials, but it also takes maintenance points, which return to you after the object is destroyed. You're further limited to eight ''groups'' of capital ships and four ''groups'' of starfighters. But that's not an actual limit on the size of your fleet; it just means you start having to conflate different ones. (In the case of starfighters, they're typically arranged by model, with the most popular model being split into two or three (or if all that model, four, as can happen when you're the Empire and your only decent fighter is the TIE Defender) groups. Finally, you can only have one Commander, Admiral, and General in a given fleet.



* The maximum amount of troops that you can train in ''VideoGame/ClashOfClans'' is directly proportional to the maximum space that your Army Camps can house (240 at maximum).

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* The maximum amount number of troops that you can train in ''VideoGame/ClashOfClans'' is directly proportional to the maximum space that your Army Camps can house (240 at maximum).



** The ''Franchise/{{Disgaea}}'' games limit you to ten on the field at once (though you can switch between them). There is also an arbitrary limit on the amount of specialists you can put onto any given item in the ''Disgaea'' games, based on rarity.

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** The ''Franchise/{{Disgaea}}'' games limit you to ten on the field at once (though you can switch between them). There is also an arbitrary limit on the amount number of specialists you can put onto any given item in the ''Disgaea'' games, based on rarity.



* Treaties limiting the amount of certain classes of warship the parties can possess at a time have a similar effect.

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* Treaties limiting the amount number of certain classes of warship the parties can possess at a time have a similar effect.
18th Nov '16 6:06:13 AM HighCrate
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** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', near the beginning of the game when the number of allies travelling with the main character exceeds the 'recommended' amount, they split into two groups and arrange to meet up at the next plot-relevant location because, technically, they are all wanted terrorists. It is essentially decided that, since the antagonists are searching for a group of 5 people, they wouldn't stop to question a group of 3 and a group of 2 moving separately.

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** In ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII'', near the beginning of the game when the number of allies travelling with the main character exceeds the 'recommended' amount, number, they split into two groups and arrange to meet up at the next plot-relevant location because, technically, they are all wanted terrorists. It is essentially decided that, since the antagonists are searching for a group of 5 people, they wouldn't stop to question a group of 3 and a group of 2 moving separately.
3rd Oct '16 3:45:32 PM nombretomado
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* Fleets in ''EVEOnline'' are restricted to 256 characters with every command position filled. This can cause some issues with larger fights featuring well over a thousand players, the largest so far featuring over 3000.

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* Fleets in ''EVEOnline'' ''VideoGame/EVEOnline'' are restricted to 256 characters with every command position filled. This can cause some issues with larger fights featuring well over a thousand players, the largest so far featuring over 3000.
21st Sep '16 2:03:25 PM res20stupid
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[[folder: Visual Novels]]
* The ''VisualNovel/ZeroEscape'' series enforces this, and averts NeverSplitTheParty on the characters. To go through each puzzle room, the characters have to obey rules imposed by Zero. Failure to comply will result in their immediate execution. Also, there has to be 9 players for each game to work.
** ''VisualNovel/NineHoursNinePersonsNineDoors'' has the loosest ruleset [[spoiler: because Zero knew that the Ninth Man would break the rules and [[MakeAnExampleOutOfThem made an example out of him]].]] Between three to five players are needed to open a door and the bracelets can only be opened through having the sum of their bracelets add up to a digital root of the door they're going through. Should more or less people go through the door their bracelets will activate bombs inside their stomachs. [[spoiler: Ace capitalizes on this when he tries to murder who he thinks is Snake, using the Ninth Man's bracelet, his own and his victim's to open the door then shoving his victim through, allowing his victim to suffer a penalty.]]
** ''VisualNovel/VirtuesLastReward'' is much stricter. Each round has the players designated colors and six of them are split into pairs with the same color bracelet. These players must combine their bracelet colors to make the colors on the Chromatic Doors, either two separate colors or one color which contrasts the door (for example, if the door is Magenta then either the GREEN players, a RED solo and BLUE pair or BLUE solo and RED pair can go through). Also, the doors open automatically and failure to go through will result in a penalty execution via lethal injection and this forces three players to go through a door each.
** ''VisualNovel/ZeroTimeDilemma'' has three people in a team, but there's no choice in the matter - Zero has split the teams up and is forcing them to compete against each other in Decision Games. [[spoiler: Except that one of the teams has four members instead of three...]]
[[/folder]]
27th Aug '16 5:48:28 AM Sonofstranger
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*** Played with in the "Citadel" DLC. When Brooks mentions it's a shame Shepard can't bring their whole team on this mission, Shepard decides to do just that. The controllable party is the same size (they're the guys taking point with Shepard), but the rest of the crew is there to provide covering fire. [[CurbStompBattle The radio chatter consists of the good guys loving how much ass they're kicking and mooks soiling themselves.]] Lampshaded again later when Joker's skycar only has room for Shepard and two others. This leaves the rest of the roster standing around, complaining about not getting picked. Amusingly, one of the complainers is the squad mate that the player has used the least throughout the rest of the game.

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*** Played with in the "Citadel" DLC. When Brooks mentions it's a shame Shepard can't bring their whole team on this mission, Shepard decides to do just that. The controllable party is the same size (they're the guys taking point with Shepard), but the rest of the crew is there to provide covering fire. [[CurbStompBattle The radio chatter consists of the good guys loving how much ass they're kicking and mooks soiling themselves.]] Lampshaded again later when Joker's skycar only has room for Shepard and two others. This leaves the rest of the roster standing around, complaining about not getting picked. Amusingly, one of the complainers is includes the squad mate that the player has used the least throughout the rest of the game.game, the squad mate that the player has used the most, or Wrex.
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