History Main / AlternateHistoryWank

13th Sep '16 10:45:17 PM Worffan101
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* '''The Eastern Roman Empire''', and the '''Malwa''' Empire before its collapse in the ''Literature/BelisariusSeries''. {{Justified}} in that they're both being aided by supercomputers from the future to advance technologically.

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* '''The Eastern Roman Empire''', and the '''Malwa''' Empire before its collapse in the ''Literature/BelisariusSeries''. {{Justified}} in that they're both being aided by supercomputers from the future to advance technologically. TropesAreNotBad in this case--the point of the series is a series of geeky military thought experiments inside some truly epic war novels, rather than an attempt to build a complete and plausible alternate-history timeline.


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* The '''[[UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany Kaiserreich]]''' AND '''the [[{{Eagleland}} United States of America]]''' in Robert Conroy's ''1901'', accompanied by gratuitous (and historically inaccurate) use of AllGermansAreNazis tropes and general StupidEvil by the Germans. In 1901, any European nation attempting to fight America would be instantly set upon by the other Great Powers of Europe; by this point, the alliance systems that led to UsefulNotes/WorldWarI were already largely in place, and such a clear violation of American historical neutrality, even after the US's war with the decaying remains of the Spanish empire, would be an easy pretext for war-not to mention that Germany's navy at the time was substantially weaker than the Royal Navy, precluding the sort of overseas invasion that Conroy portrays. Conroy seems to have a thing for [[{{Eagleland}} Plucky 'Murica]] [[AmericaSavesTheDay fighting back from the brink of destruction to destroy the Enemies of Freedom (tm)]].
23rd Aug '16 8:42:40 PM hagamablabla
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** In Homefront 2, the point of divergence is moved back to 1972 (though it may actually be farther back, given that the intro cinematic says that North Korea was already technologically superior to the US at that time). A North Korean starts the computer revolution out of his garage, creating Silicon River and making the North Koreans the world leader of technology. By 2004, the [[EvilInc APEX corporation]], this universe's equivalent of Apple, is the sole supplier for America's [[BreadEggsMilkSquick phones, tablets, and military equipment]]. After bankrupting itself in the Middle East for 2 decades, America is essentially annexed by North Korea after APEX shuts off all of America's military equipment through a backdoor they had installed.
21st Aug '16 6:13:30 AM Doug86
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Note also that there is a certain degree of TruthInTelevision here; certain nations or causes ''have'' apparently been BornLucky or have become implausibly dominant global powers, and certain periods have essentially been dominated by one particular group or cause. The United States in particular is sometimes said to embody the closest thing to this in RealLife: Bismarck is often ([[BeamMeUpScotty falsely]]) quoted as saying "there is a special providence that protects fools, drunkards, and the United States of America." At the height of the British Empire 20% of the world’s population was governed from a small island off the coast of Northern Europe. The achievements of UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat might seem like the stuff of implausibly fanciful tales had they not actually happened. The unification, and in some sense, the creation, of the nation and the idea of China was, in some sense, the work of one man, QinShiHuangdi. And the Mongol Empire lasted for over 150 years and, at its height, spanned 20% of the surface of the world. However, what separates these situations from a typical AlternateHistoryWank (aside from the fact that they really happened) is that not everything was perfect for them; the United States hasn’t always had good fortune (one word: [[UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar Vietnam]]), the British Empire was fiercely hated and resisted by a large number of its subjects, Alexander had his screw-ups and personal failings, ''every'' pan-Chinese Empire fell apart at some point, and even the Mongol Empire eventually collapsed.

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Note also that there is a certain degree of TruthInTelevision here; certain nations or causes ''have'' apparently been BornLucky or have become implausibly dominant global powers, and certain periods have essentially been dominated by one particular group or cause. The United States in particular is sometimes said to embody the closest thing to this in RealLife: Bismarck is often ([[BeamMeUpScotty falsely]]) quoted as saying "there is a special providence that protects fools, drunkards, and the United States of America." At the height of the British Empire 20% of the world’s population was governed from a small island off the coast of Northern Europe. The achievements of UsefulNotes/AlexanderTheGreat might seem like the stuff of implausibly fanciful tales had they not actually happened. The unification, and in some sense, the creation, of the nation and the idea of China was, in some sense, the work of one man, QinShiHuangdi.UsefulNotes/QinShiHuangdi. And the Mongol Empire lasted for over 150 years and, at its height, spanned 20% of the surface of the world. However, what separates these situations from a typical AlternateHistoryWank (aside from the fact that they really happened) is that not everything was perfect for them; the United States hasn’t always had good fortune (one word: [[UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar Vietnam]]), the British Empire was fiercely hated and resisted by a large number of its subjects, Alexander had his screw-ups and personal failings, ''every'' pan-Chinese Empire fell apart at some point, and even the Mongol Empire eventually collapsed.
17th Aug '16 8:49:16 PM Darkaros
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* The '''Aztec Empire''' in the ''VideoGame/CrusaderKings'' DLC Sunset Invasion, where the Aztec Empire manages to launch a full invasion of Europe in the 1250s.
** Nevermind that the Aztec Empire was [[NewerThanTheyThink not founded until 1427]]...
*** There were Nahuatl people living in what would become the Aztec Empire since 900AD. Still wank though.
*** Nahuatl-speaking people, but not the specific Mexica group who would found Tenochtitlan in the early 1300's. But, yes; still definitely wank.
*** [[FridgeBrilliance Maybe the AI formed the Aztec Empire early.]]
** Ever-so-slightly handwaved in that the entire scenario is ''supposed'' to be silly.

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* The '''Aztec Empire''' in the non-canon ''VideoGame/CrusaderKings'' DLC Sunset Invasion, where the Aztec Empire manages to launch a full invasion of Europe in the 1250s.
** Nevermind
1250s. Note that the Aztec Empire was [[NewerThanTheyThink not founded until 1427]]...
*** There were Nahuatl people living in what would become
1427]]; this, combined with other impossibilities, leads to its inclusion being mocked by diehard history simulation fans. Overall, the Aztec Empire since 900AD. Still wank though.
*** Nahuatl-speaking people, but not the specific Mexica group who would found Tenochtitlan in the early 1300's. But, yes; still definitely wank.
*** [[FridgeBrilliance Maybe the AI formed the Aztec Empire early.]]
** Ever-so-slightly handwaved in that the entire
scenario is ''supposed'' to be silly.silly, acting mostly as a handwavy mechanic to balance how easy it was to start in western Europe, far away from invading mongols and likely distanced from the islamic factions.
8th Jul '16 2:52:37 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** [[TheyJustDidntCare Nevermind]] that the Aztec Empire was [[NewerThanTheyThink not founded until 1427]]...

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** [[TheyJustDidntCare Nevermind]] Nevermind that the Aztec Empire was [[NewerThanTheyThink not founded until 1427]]...
2nd Jul '16 12:17:01 PM lavendermintrose
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* ''Anime/CodeGeass'' is a weird case. '''Britannia''' rules half the world, but not the British Isles, because Revolutionary France successfully invaded said isles and forced the Britannian royal family to flee to their North American colonies. Meanwhile, Japan, despite being a Britannian colony, seems to have been one of the last non-superpower countries and its independence is treated as central to world politics, thanks to its large deposites of [[MineralMacGuffin Sakuradite]].

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* ''Anime/CodeGeass'' is a weird case. '''Britannia''' ''Britannia'' rules half the world, but not the British Isles, because Revolutionary France successfully invaded said isles and forced the Britannian royal family aristocracy to flee to their North American colonies. Meanwhile, Japan, despite being a Britannian colony, seems to have been one of the last non-superpower countries and its independence is treated as central to world politics, thanks to its large deposites deposits of [[MineralMacGuffin Sakuradite]].Sakuradite]]. The series' portrayal of Japan may or may not count as the BornLucky element of this - they aren't the dominant power, but the revolution that overturns the three-color-map-world status quo starts in Japan, when a banished Britannian prince decides to help the Japanese rebels, who held out longer than any other colony, so at first, it could seem like they are, but when you look closer, the series is actually quite critical of Japan and a lot of elements of the country's behavior.
29th Jun '16 10:19:40 PM Senza32
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* A rare in-universe example occurs in [[http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-140 SCP-140]] from the SCP Foundation. The [[ArtifactOfDoom object in question]] is a book detailing the history of a civilization called the Daevites. Originally, the Daevites were a minor culture destroyed fairly early on in the history of civlization. However, when the book comes into contact with a fluid that can be used for writing such as ink or human blood (which is, naturally, the most potent writing fluid), the text changes to state that the Daevites recovered from their defeats and rebuilt elsewhere and such. This on its own would not be remarkable compared to many other objects in containment except for the fact that these changes in the written history are [[CosmicRetcon retroactively applied]] to the world, with corresponding archaeological sites appearing. Each time the book has such an ''expansion event'', their history gets closer and closer to modern times. This is especially bad because the Daevites are [[ObviouslyEvil obviously evil]], performing [[HumanSacrifice human sacrifice]], follow a [[ReligionOfEvil religion of evil]], and appear to be [[HumanoidAbomination humanoid abominations]], specifically a separate subspecies from humans with much longer lives and therefore often superior intelligence to humans. Furthermore, they [[TheyWalkAmongUs have infiltrated our society]] and are actively working to [[OhCrap expand their history further]].

to:

* A rare in-universe example occurs in [[http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-140 SCP-140]] from the SCP Foundation. The [[ArtifactOfDoom object in question]] is a book detailing the history of a civilization called the Daevites. Originally, the Daevites were a minor culture destroyed fairly early on in the history of civlization. However, when the book comes into contact with a fluid that can be used for writing such as ink or human blood (which is, naturally, the most potent writing fluid), the text changes to state that the Daevites recovered from their defeats and rebuilt elsewhere and such. This on its own would not be remarkable compared to many other objects in containment except for the fact that these changes in the written history are [[CosmicRetcon retroactively applied]] to the world, with corresponding archaeological sites appearing. Each time the book has such an ''expansion event'', their history gets closer and closer to modern times. This is especially bad because the Daevites are [[ObviouslyEvil obviously evil]], performing [[HumanSacrifice human sacrifice]], follow a [[ReligionOfEvil religion of evil]], and appear to be [[HumanoidAbomination humanoid abominations]], specifically a separate subspecies from humans with much longer lives and therefore often superior intelligence to humans. Furthermore, they [[TheyWalkAmongUs have infiltrated our society]] society and are actively working to [[OhCrap expand their history further]].
29th Jun '16 10:10:28 PM Senza32
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* A rare in-universe example occurs in [[http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-140 SCP-140]] from the SCP Foundation. The [[ArtifactOfDoom object in question]] is a book detailing the history of a civilization called the Daevites. Originally, the Daevites were a minor culture destroyed fairly early on in the history of civlization. However, when the book comes into contact with a fluid that can be used for writing such as ink or human blood (which is, naturally, the most potent writing fluid), the text changes to state that the Daevites recovered from their defeats and rebuilt elsewhere and such. This on its own would not be remarkable compared to many other objects in containment except for the fact that these changes in the written history are [[CosmicRetcon retroactively applied]] to the world, with corresponding archaeological sites appearing. Each time the book has such an ''expansion event'', their history gets closer and closer to modern times. This is especially bad because the Daevites are [[ObviouslyEvil obviously evil]], performing [[HumanSacrifice human sacrifice]], follow a [[ReligionOfEvil religion of evil]], and appear to be [[HumanoidAbomination humanoid abominations]], specifically a separate subspecies from humans with much longer lives and therefore often superior intelligence to humans. Furthermore, they [[TheyWalkAmongUs have infiltrated our society]] and are actively working to [[OhCrap expand their history further]].


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22nd Jun '16 12:10:06 PM Worffan101
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* '''The Eastern Roman Empire''', and the '''Malwa''' Empire before its collapse in ''Literature/TheBelisariusSeries''. {{Justified}} in that they're both being aided by supercomputers from the future to advance technologically.

to:

* '''The Eastern Roman Empire''', and the '''Malwa''' Empire before its collapse in ''Literature/TheBelisariusSeries''.the ''Literature/BelisariusSeries''. {{Justified}} in that they're both being aided by supercomputers from the future to advance technologically.
22nd Jun '16 12:08:53 PM Worffan101
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*** Not really. The Draka catch an implausible number of incredibly lucky breaks in their early history (the "serf" justification for slavery seems especially unlikely to fly past the British administration, as does the allegedly covert aid to the Confederacy), and even once they carve themselves out of the British Empire, they are a totalitarian slavocracy combining all of the greatest weaknesses of Nazi Germany, ancient Sparta, and the CSA. In pure numerical terms the Draka should be incapable of invading any state larger than an unsupported Kuwait, lest their civilians be torn apart by rebel slaves when the armies are away (as happened to Sparta in our history). On top of that, the TooDumbToLive tendencies of the Alliance leadership, including ''allowing the Draka to invade Alliance-allied Siberia without repercussions'' break the bounds of credibility.


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* '''The Eastern Roman Empire''', and the '''Malwa''' Empire before its collapse in ''Literature/TheBelisariusSeries''. {{Justified}} in that they're both being aided by supercomputers from the future to advance technologically.
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