History Literature / Timeline191

9th Feb '18 10:25:10 AM FordPrefect
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* Defictionlization: It seems as though some real life White nationalists have unironically taken up the Freedom Party flag (the Confederate battle flag with the colors reversed) as a banner. Several Freedom Party flags could be seen during the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville Virginia.

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* Defictionlization: {{Defictionalization}}: It seems as though some real life White nationalists have unironically taken up the Freedom Party flag (the Confederate battle flag with the colors reversed) as a banner. Several Freedom Party flags could be seen during the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville Charlottesville, Virginia.



** Justified in that when he didn't do this in ''How Few Remain'', people apparentlylost track of who was who. And that was a book where nearly all the major characters were real historical figures.

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** Justified in that when he didn't do this in ''How Few Remain'', people apparentlylost apparently lost track of who was who. And that was a book where nearly all the major characters were real historical figures.
3rd Feb '18 12:25:23 AM ares191
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Added DiffLines:

* Defictionlization: It seems as though some real life White nationalists have unironically taken up the Freedom Party flag (the Confederate battle flag with the colors reversed) as a banner. Several Freedom Party flags could be seen during the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville Virginia.
5th Nov '17 12:47:53 PM RedScharlach
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* AntiVillain: Clarence Potter, who ends up as the Confederate Army's Head of Intelligence and masterminds [[spoiler:the near-destruction of Philadelphia with a nuclear weapon.]] He's also somewhat aware of what's going on at Camp Determination. Despite all this, it's easy to sympathise with him, as Potter is clearly MyCountryRightOrWrong. He even attempts to assasinate Featherston!

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* AntiVillain: Clarence Potter, who ends up as the Confederate Army's Head of Intelligence and masterminds [[spoiler:the near-destruction of Philadelphia with a nuclear weapon.]] He's also somewhat aware of what's going on at Camp Determination. Despite all this, it's easy to sympathise with him, as Potter is clearly MyCountryRightOrWrong. He even attempts to assasinate assassinate Featherston!



** Turtledove is also fond of doing this at the very start of each novel - Bartlett and Colleton both die at the start of ''The Center Cannot Hold'' and ''Return Engagment''.

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** Turtledove is also fond of doing this at the very start of each novel - Bartlett and Colleton both die at the start of ''The Center Cannot Hold'' and ''Return Engagment''.Engagement''.



** The USA has most of the North American continent either under direct military occupation or as puppet states (Texas, Quebec, likely fate of Cuba and Mexico) after 1944. Sustaining martial law in an area several times the size of the core USA probably will require its citizens to make even more sacrifices in the name of security. There are, however, indications that the USA's new acquisitions/puppets may fall into line. Perhaps most importantly, the Canadian resistance has been absolutely shattered, and most Canadians seem to be assimilating well (there are also indications that Candadian provinces will be granted statehood at some point). Texas will likely be able to govern itself. Cuba will probably be fairly pro-US, because it funded Fidel Castro's anti-Confederate rebellion. The US also has a lot of friends in Mexico, due to their funding of the (losing) republican side in their Spanish Civil War-analogue before WWII. Quebec has always been quiescent. As for the old Confederacy, though, it seems like the US will be in for a long insurgency.

to:

** The USA has most of the North American continent either under direct military occupation or as puppet states (Texas, Quebec, likely fate of Cuba and Mexico) after 1944. Sustaining martial law in an area several times the size of the core USA probably will require its citizens to make even more sacrifices in the name of security. There are, however, indications that the USA's new acquisitions/puppets may fall into line. Perhaps most importantly, the Canadian resistance has been absolutely shattered, and most Canadians seem to be assimilating well (there are also indications that Candadian Canadian provinces will be granted statehood at some point). Texas will likely be able to govern itself. Cuba will probably be fairly pro-US, because it funded Fidel Castro's anti-Confederate rebellion. The US also has a lot of friends in Mexico, due to their funding of the (losing) republican side in their Spanish Civil War-analogue before WWII. Quebec has always been quiescent. As for the old Confederacy, though, it seems like the US will be in for a long insurgency.



* DoubleReverseQuadrupleAgent: Cincinnatus Driver, a lowly black truck driver in Kentucky, starts as an ActionSurvivor and ends up as a go-between for all sides (the USA, Confederates, and black Marxists) in the conflict during the First Great War, taking [[TookALevelInBadass several levels in badass]] in the process. He eventually becomes a US auxilliary ([[BadassGrandpa despite being in his fifties]]) during the Second Great War. The man even had ''[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome Teddy Roosevelt order the head of the Kentucky State (read: secret) Police to release him and pay him $100 (in 1920) out of his own pocket]]'' at one point!

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* DoubleReverseQuadrupleAgent: Cincinnatus Driver, a lowly black truck driver in Kentucky, starts as an ActionSurvivor and ends up as a go-between for all sides (the USA, Confederates, and black Marxists) in the conflict during the First Great War, taking [[TookALevelInBadass several levels in badass]] in the process. He eventually becomes a US auxilliary auxiliary ([[BadassGrandpa despite being in his fifties]]) during the Second Great War. The man even had ''[[CrowningMomentOfAwesome Teddy Roosevelt order the head of the Kentucky State (read: secret) Police to release him and pay him $100 (in 1920) out of his own pocket]]'' at one point!



** PlayedWith in the case of the USA. It eventually morphs into a CultureChopSuey of The Union, UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany and the [[GloriousMotherRussia Soviet Union]]... -and is led by German-style social democrats!- Now that's what I call an AlternateUniverse...

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** PlayedWith in the case of the USA. It eventually morphs into a CultureChopSuey of The Union, UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany and the [[GloriousMotherRussia Soviet Union]]... -and Union]] ...and is led by German-style social democrats!- democrats! Now that's what I call an AlternateUniverse...



* InSpiteOfANail: The Great War begins the same way it does it our world, despite nearly fifty years of completely divergent history before it. While history in general becomes ForWantOfANail afterwards, historical characters still crop up in similar positions to where they would have been. Winston Churchill is still born - despite having an American mother - and is Prime Minister during the Second Great War.

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* InSpiteOfANail: The Great War begins the same way it does it our world, despite nearly fifty years of completely divergent history before it. While history in general becomes ForWantOfANail afterwards, historical characters still crop up in similar positions to where they would have been. Winston Churchill is still born - -- despite having an American mother - -- and is Prime Minister during the Second Great War.



** Also justified in that Churchill probably didn't advertise his ancestry heavily given the hostility between the two countries. As a relentless self-promoter early in his career, Chruchill would be unlikely to bring up anything that would jeopardize his prospects. He was also estranged from his parents in RealLife, and there's no reason to suspect that the family dynamics were altered by the changes in this timeline.

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** Also justified in that Churchill probably didn't advertise his ancestry heavily given the hostility between the two countries. As a relentless self-promoter early in his career, Chruchill Churchill would be unlikely to bring up anything that would jeopardize his prospects. He was also estranged from his parents in RealLife, and there's no reason to suspect that the family dynamics were altered by the changes in this timeline.



* PetTheDog: Jefferson Pinkard, basically the Confederacy's version of Adolf Eichmann, genuinly loves his wife and children, to the point where he worries what will happen to them if they lose the war. Quite common with actual Nazi prison guards.

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* PetTheDog: Jefferson Pinkard, basically the Confederacy's version of Adolf Eichmann, genuinly genuinely loves his wife and children, to the point where he worries what will happen to them if they lose the war. Quite common with actual Nazi prison guards.



* VicePresidentWho: Donald Partridge, the second vice president of evil Confederate Nazi President Jake Featherston, is chosen for that office specifically because he is an ineffectual cipher. Featherston's first Vice President had tried to assassinate him. Partridge doesn't do much more than hang out with society ladies and tell jokes. Also true on the Union side - at one point the USA Vice President tells his in-laws that his job is to sit around collecting dust unless something happens to the President.

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* VicePresidentWho: Donald Partridge, the second vice president of evil Confederate Nazi President Jake Featherston, is chosen for that office specifically because he is an ineffectual cipher. Featherston's first Vice President had tried to assassinate him. Partridge doesn't do much more than hang out with society ladies and tell jokes. Also true on the Union side - -- at one point the USA Vice President tells his in-laws that his job is to sit around collecting dust unless something happens to the President.
3rd Nov '17 9:08:50 AM DustSnitch
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** The Art/StatueOfLiberty's counterpart in this universe is the Statue of Remembrance, a gift from Germany to the United States. Visually, the only difference is that she holds a sword and shield in the place of the Statue of Liberty's torch and tablet of law, respectively. The statue is a symbol of the the US desire for vengeance against the CSA, Britain, and France.



* UsefulNotes/StatueOfLiberty: Its counterpart in this universe is the Statue of Remembrance, a gift from Germany to the United States. Visually, the only difference is that she holds a sword and shield in the place of the Statue of Liberty's torch and tablet of law, respectively. The statue is a symbol of the the US desire for vengeance against the CSA, Britain, and France.
31st Aug '17 10:07:23 AM HalcyonDayz
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** Other black rebellions, driven more by survival than ideology, flare up in the Confederacy thereafter. During the Second Great War, escaped US POWs occasionally join up with these guerrilla bands.

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** Other black rebellions, driven more by survival than ideology, flare up in the Confederacy thereafter. During the Second Great War, escaped US POWs [=POWs=] occasionally join up with these guerrilla bands.
10th Jun '17 10:27:06 AM nombretomado
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** The element neptunium is called "saturnium", and plutonium is called "jovium" (or "[[WinstonChurchill churchillium]]" if you're a Brit).

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** The element neptunium is called "saturnium", and plutonium is called "jovium" (or "[[WinstonChurchill "[[UsefulNotes/WinstonChurchill churchillium]]" if you're a Brit).
16th May '17 9:49:42 AM nombretomado
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*** Not to mention the British and French becoming fascists and an equivalent of WWII Italy and Japan. And TsaristRussia, Austria-Hungary and UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany becoming more liberal and turning into a thinly-veiled {{Expy}} ''[[BizarroUniverse of our world's inter-war USA and Canada]]''.

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*** Not to mention the British and French becoming fascists and an equivalent of WWII Italy and Japan. And TsaristRussia, UsefulNotes/TsaristRussia, Austria-Hungary and UsefulNotes/ImperialGermany becoming more liberal and turning into a thinly-veiled {{Expy}} ''[[BizarroUniverse of our world's inter-war USA and Canada]]''.
15th May '17 7:35:17 PM nombretomado
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** They start out like this. In later books, though, the conflict that they inspire has a lot more parallels with TheTroubles in Ireland, with the US playing the role of Britain.

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** They start out like this. In later books, though, the conflict that they inspire has a lot more parallels with TheTroubles UsefulNotes/TheTroubles in Ireland, with the US playing the role of Britain.
17th Apr '17 6:14:32 PM Golondrina
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%%
%% ZeroContextExample entries are not allowed on wiki pages. All such entries have been commented out. Add context to the entries before uncommenting them.
%%



* BloodKnight:
** Gordon [=McSweeney=]
** Jefferson Pinkard is after his wife cheats on him.
** So is Jonathan Moss after his family is killed.
** Boris Lavochkin counts in ''In at the Death.''

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* %%* BloodKnight:
** %%** Gordon [=McSweeney=]
** %%** Jefferson Pinkard is after his wife cheats on him.
** %%** So is Jonathan Moss after his family is killed.
** %%** Boris Lavochkin counts in ''In at the Death.''



* TheButcher : During the Second Great War, the Union gives Featherston the derogatory nickname "Jake the Snake" (or just "The Snake").

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* TheButcher : TheButcher: During the Second Great War, the Union gives Featherston the derogatory nickname "Jake the Snake" (or just "The Snake").



* LesCollaborateurs

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* %%* LesCollaborateurs



* CoolPlane : Several, though they're really just doppelgängers of various planes from our history.

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* CoolPlane : CoolPlane: Several, though they're really just doppelgängers of various planes from our history.



* {{Doorstopper}} : Guess.

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* {{Doorstopper}} : {{Doorstopper}}: Guess.



* ForWantOfANail: Special Orders 191.

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* %%* ForWantOfANail: Special Orders 191.



* LaResistance : A LOT.
** The Mormons are almost constantly in rebellion against the United States, starting in 1881.
** Black Marxist guerrillas harass the Confederacy during the Great War, and they are crushed.
** Other black rebellions, driven more by survival than ideology, flare up in the Confederacy thereafter. During the Second Great War, escaped US POWs occasionally join up with these guerrilla bands.
** Canadian patriots rise up at several points during and after the American conquest.
** Freedom Party sympathizers engage in open, armed rebellion against US authorities in territories taken from the Confederacy after the Great War.
** Both the USA and the CSA sponsor rebels and subversives in Kentucky at various points.
** Other, smaller examples include the Mexican Republicans and Native American tribes in Sequoyah during the Great War.
* LeanAndMean: Jake Featherston.

to:

* LaResistance : A LOT.
** The Mormons are almost constantly in rebellion against the United States, starting in 1881.
** Black Marxist guerrillas harass the Confederacy during the Great War, and they are crushed.
** Other black rebellions, driven more by survival than ideology, flare up in the Confederacy thereafter. During the Second Great War, escaped US POWs occasionally join up with these guerrilla bands.
** Canadian patriots rise up at several points during and after the American conquest.
** Freedom Party sympathizers engage in open, armed rebellion against US authorities in territories taken from the Confederacy after the Great War.
** Both the USA and the CSA sponsor rebels and subversives in Kentucky at various points.
** Other, smaller examples include the Mexican Republicans and Native American tribes in Sequoyah during the Great War.
*
%%* LeanAndMean: Jake Featherston.



* TheMedic: Leonard O'Doull.

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* %%* TheMedic: Leonard O'Doull.



* ANaziByAnyOtherName: [[FictionalPoliticalParty The Freedom Party]] of the CSA.

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* %%* ANaziByAnyOtherName: [[FictionalPoliticalParty The Freedom Party]] of the CSA.



* OutWithABang: Lucien Galtier.

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* %%* OutWithABang: Lucien Galtier.



* PresidentEvil: Jake Featherston.

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* %%* PresidentEvil: Jake Featherston.



* LaResistance : A LOT.
** The Mormons are almost constantly in rebellion against the United States, starting in 1881.
** Black Marxist guerrillas harass the Confederacy during the Great War, and they are crushed.
** Other black rebellions, driven more by survival than ideology, flare up in the Confederacy thereafter. During the Second Great War, escaped US POWs occasionally join up with these guerrilla bands.
** Canadian patriots rise up at several points during and after the American conquest.
** Freedom Party sympathizers engage in open, armed rebellion against US authorities in territories taken from the Confederacy after the Great War.
** Both the USA and the CSA sponsor rebels and subversives in Kentucky at various points.
** Other, smaller examples include the Mexican Republicans and Native American tribes in Sequoyah during the Great War.



* WhatIf the Confederacy won the Civil War?

to:

* WhatIf WhatIf: What if the Confederacy won the Civil War?



* [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI The Great War]]
* [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII The Second Great War]]
17th Apr '17 5:53:35 PM Golondrina
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* LesCollaborateurs



* LesCollaborateurs
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Literature.Timeline191