History Literature / Timeline191

3rd Aug '16 12:46:31 AM shadowmanwkp
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** "It was as good an answer as and, and better than most," is a phrase this Troper had never heard before Turtledove used it... again... and again... and again....

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** "It was as good an answer as and, and better than most," is a phrase this Troper had you'll almost never heard before hear. Turtledove used uses it... again... and again... and again....
2nd Aug '16 5:06:22 AM Morgenthaler
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* GameMod: Several popular mods for ''[[VictoriaAnEmpireUnderTheSun Victoria]]'' and ''HeartsOfIron'' incorporate all or part of the events of ''Timeline 191''.

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* GameMod: Several popular mods for ''[[VictoriaAnEmpireUnderTheSun ''[[VideoGame/VictoriaAnEmpireUnderTheSun Victoria]]'' and ''HeartsOfIron'' ''VideoGame/HeartsOfIron'' incorporate all or part of the events of ''Timeline 191''.
10th Jul '16 7:10:04 PM AmbarSonofDeshar
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** Arguably evolves into BlackAndGrayMorality in the later stages of the USA vs. CSA conflict. The US is not without its faults - the occupation of Canada, the suppression of the Mormons in Utah, several war crimes, etc. - but the Confederacy under Featherston is unmistakably evil.

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** Arguably evolves Evolves into BlackAndGrayMorality in the later stages of the USA vs. CSA conflict. The US is not without its faults - the occupation of Canada, the suppression of the Mormons in Utah, several war crimes, etc. - but the Confederacy under Featherston is unmistakably evil.



* NoCelebritiesWereHarmed: Several characters are parallels of famous figures from our own history, most notably Irving Morrell (Erwin Rommel) and Jake Featherston (UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler).
** Don't forget Flora Blackford, a.k.a. American [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg Rosa Luxemburg]].
*** That one may be more of a WhatCouldHaveBeen than anything. Fans have long suspected that Turtledove originally meant for the USA to lose the Great War and end up being the parallel to Weimar and later Nazi Germany. Had he gone this route, Flora Blackford would have been the Rosa Luxemburg parallel, while Gordon [=McSweeney=] would have been Hitler. As it stands, Blackford develops into much more an Eleanor Roosevelt Expy. The [[AllohistoricalAllusion allohistorical]] trajectories of most other characters are impossible to forecast.
** In-universe, the most popular comic book in the Confederacy is "Hyperman", a thinly-disguised {{Expy}} of {{Superman}} who was specifically created by the Confederates because they didn't want kids reading Superman comics, where he fight the evil Confederates.

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* NoCelebritiesWereHarmed: NoHistoricalFiguresWereHarmed: Several characters are parallels of famous figures from our own history, most notably Irving Morrell (Erwin Rommel) and Jake Featherston (UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler).
** Don't forget Flora Blackford, a.k.a. American [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg Rosa Luxemburg]].
*** That one may be more of a WhatCouldHaveBeen than anything. Fans have long suspected that Turtledove originally meant for the USA to lose the Great War and end up being the parallel to Weimar and later Nazi Germany. Had he gone this route, Flora Blackford would have been the Rosa Luxemburg parallel, while Gordon [=McSweeney=] would have been Hitler. As it stands, Blackford develops into much more an
Luxemburg]] with some Eleanor Roosevelt Expy. The [[AllohistoricalAllusion allohistorical]] trajectories of most other characters are impossible to forecast.
thrown in.
** In-universe, the most popular comic book in the Confederacy is "Hyperman", a thinly-disguised {{Expy}} CaptainErsatz of {{Superman}} who was specifically created by the Confederates because they didn't want kids reading Superman comics, where he fight the evil Confederates.
7th Jul '16 9:00:24 PM AmbarSonofDeshar
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Added DiffLines:

* IndustrializedEvil: The Confederacy under Featherston is industrial evil on the scale of Nazi Germany, using the most modern and efficient practises to exterminate the African-American populace.
16th Jun '16 12:30:20 PM Jake18
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** Ironically thanks to the invention of the superbomb, there are signs that the world will turn out for the better in the future. Much like in OTL (but UpToEleven), the rampant the superbombings has caused nations that have superbombs to be weary of deploying them, while those who ''don't'' have superbombs are more willing to fall in line lest they wind up like London, Hamburg, Paris, Philadelphia or Charleston. Alongside is the ratification of the Dewey Doctrine, in which the US, alongside Germany, will police the world to ensure that superbomb technology does not spread, all the while a growing focus on rebuilding is spreading amongst the nations. Overall, the end of the Second Great War is just as hopeful as the end of our World War II, perhaps even more so as the Soviet Union and accompanying RedScare do not exist.

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** Ironically thanks to the invention of the superbomb, there are signs that the world will turn out for the better in the future. Much like in OTL (but UpToEleven), the rampant the use of superbombings has caused nations that have superbombs to be weary of deploying them, while those who ''don't'' have superbombs are more willing to fall in line lest they wind up like London, Hamburg, Paris, Philadelphia or Charleston. Alongside is the ratification of the Dewey Doctrine, in which the US, alongside Germany, will police the world to ensure that superbomb technology does not spread, all the while a growing focus on rebuilding is spreading amongst the nations. Overall, the end of the Second Great War is just as hopeful as the end of our World War II, perhaps even more so as the Soviet Union and accompanying RedScare do not exist.
7th Jun '16 9:01:17 AM Doug86
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* ''[[UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo Settling Accounts]] : Return Engagement'' (2004)

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* ''[[UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo ''[[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Settling Accounts]] : Return Engagement'' (2004)



* CrapsackWorld: The complete lack of anything resembling a free society anywhere on the planet. The USA and CSA are effectively police states (with the CSA becoming an outright dictatorship under Featherston) for all that they have elections and pay lipservice to individual rights. Every other country mentioned in the series is either a dictatorship, becomes a dictatorship, is under occupation by a dictatorship, or a puppet state of a dictatorship ([[spoiler: Quebec and Houston--later the whole once-again-independent Republic of Texas for the USA, with Haiti implied as a USA protectorate. Parts of Mexico and the whole of Cuba were annexed by the CSA, and the [[NonIndicativeName Empire of Mexico]] is heavily implied to be a puppet of the CSA.]]). UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne and UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo equivalents playing out in full bloody detail in North America as well as Europe don't help matters.

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* CrapsackWorld: The complete lack of anything resembling a free society anywhere on the planet. The USA and CSA are effectively police states (with the CSA becoming an outright dictatorship under Featherston) for all that they have elections and pay lipservice to individual rights. Every other country mentioned in the series is either a dictatorship, becomes a dictatorship, is under occupation by a dictatorship, or a puppet state of a dictatorship ([[spoiler: Quebec and Houston--later the whole once-again-independent Republic of Texas for the USA, with Haiti implied as a USA protectorate. Parts of Mexico and the whole of Cuba were annexed by the CSA, and the [[NonIndicativeName Empire of Mexico]] is heavily implied to be a puppet of the CSA.]]). UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne UsefulNotes/WorldWarI and UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo UsefulNotes/WorldWarII equivalents playing out in full bloody detail in North America as well as Europe don't help matters.



** Mainly of our timeline's military equipment. One example is the Confederate airforce's "Asskicker" dive bomber plane, which is largely analogous to the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWar2 the German Stuka]]. However, most vehicles and weaponry go unnamed, aside from technical descriptions like the caliber of tank guns.

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** Mainly of our timeline's military equipment. One example is the Confederate airforce's "Asskicker" dive bomber plane, which is largely analogous to the [[UsefulNotes/WorldWar2 [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII the German Stuka]]. However, most vehicles and weaponry go unnamed, aside from technical descriptions like the caliber of tank guns.



* GrayAndGrayMorality : One thing Harry can handle very well in his works and this series is no exception. By the time of the Second Great War, the US and CSA [[NotSoDifferent are much more morally grey when compared to each other]] than, say, the USA and Nazi Germany of our history. But since the end of the so-called [[WorldWarII Second Great War]], the US is becoming a politically and economically liberal or social-democratic version of the Soviet Union, this is quite understandable.

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* GrayAndGrayMorality : One thing Harry can handle very well in his works and this series is no exception. By the time of the Second Great War, the US and CSA [[NotSoDifferent are much more morally grey when compared to each other]] than, say, the USA and Nazi Germany of our history. But since the end of the so-called [[WorldWarII [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII Second Great War]], the US is becoming a politically and economically liberal or social-democratic version of the Soviet Union, this is quite understandable.



** The London-Berlin thing in Ontario could be Harry leaving a Genius Bonus for the readers : A certain Canadian town called "Berlin" was renamed "Kitchener" after the start of our world's UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne.

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** The London-Berlin thing in Ontario could be Harry leaving a Genius Bonus for the readers : A certain Canadian town called "Berlin" was renamed "Kitchener" after the start of our world's UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne.UsefulNotes/WorldWarI.



* PuttingOnTheReich: A rather unusual and amusing subversion in general. Almost everything about the CSA's Freedom Party is modelled after the Nazis - except their uniforms, which resemble those worn by our timeline's US troops during UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo.

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* PuttingOnTheReich: A rather unusual and amusing subversion in general. Almost everything about the CSA's Freedom Party is modelled after the Nazis - except their uniforms, which resemble those worn by our timeline's US troops during UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo.UsefulNotes/WorldWarII.



* RuleOfCool: YMMV, but things seem to go all too well for the CSA between 1861 and about 1915 considering it is a nepotistic, ethnically divided country that ties itself to a rural economy and slavery while the rest of the world embraces the second industrial revolution. It's justified since the intention of the author was to recycle UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne [[RecycledINSPACE IN AMERICA!]], but still.

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* RuleOfCool: YMMV, but things seem to go all too well for the CSA between 1861 and about 1915 considering it is a nepotistic, ethnically divided country that ties itself to a rural economy and slavery while the rest of the world embraces the second industrial revolution. It's justified since the intention of the author was to recycle UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne UsefulNotes/WorldWarI [[RecycledINSPACE IN AMERICA!]], but still.



* SettingUpdate: ''Timeline-191'' is basically European history of the 19th and 20th century [-MOVED TO AMERICA !-] Featherston is Hitler, West Texas/Kentucky/Sequoyah suffers a fate identical to Austria/Sudetenland, [[SignificantAnagram Irwing Morrell]] is an American CaptainErsatz of Erwin Rommel and the Battle of Pittsburgh becomes the equivalent of our Battle of Stalingrad. Blacks, Mormons and Indians become the equivalent of Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and other nationalities that died in our world's Holocaust. It may not be particularly inspired, but it works well both as a story and as a HistoricalInJoke. The only real outliers are the fate of Canada, which is occupied by the United States at the end of WorldWarI, and American politics, which are far too soft and democratic (albeit increasingly left-wing after WorldWarI) to make a meaningful parallel to the Soviet Union. Still, the Confederate invasion of the United States in 1941 strongly parallels, militarily, the German invasion of the Soviet Union, though the geography is ''tremendously'' compressed (Ohio and eastern Pennsylvania compared to the whole of Europe east of Warsaw) and the United States is somewhat more prepared.

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* SettingUpdate: ''Timeline-191'' is basically European history of the 19th and 20th century [-MOVED TO AMERICA !-] Featherston is Hitler, West Texas/Kentucky/Sequoyah suffers a fate identical to Austria/Sudetenland, [[SignificantAnagram Irwing Morrell]] is an American CaptainErsatz of Erwin Rommel and the Battle of Pittsburgh becomes the equivalent of our Battle of Stalingrad. Blacks, Mormons and Indians become the equivalent of Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and other nationalities that died in our world's Holocaust. It may not be particularly inspired, but it works well both as a story and as a HistoricalInJoke. The only real outliers are the fate of Canada, which is occupied by the United States at the end of WorldWarI, UsefulNotes/WorldWarI, and American politics, which are far too soft and democratic (albeit increasingly left-wing after WorldWarI) UsefulNotes/WorldWarI) to make a meaningful parallel to the Soviet Union. Still, the Confederate invasion of the United States in 1941 strongly parallels, militarily, the German invasion of the Soviet Union, though the geography is ''tremendously'' compressed (Ohio and eastern Pennsylvania compared to the whole of Europe east of Warsaw) and the United States is somewhat more prepared.



* [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne The Great War]]
* [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo The Second Great War]]

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* [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarOne [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarI The Great War]]
* [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarTwo [[UsefulNotes/WorldWarII The Second Great War]]
2nd Jun '16 7:58:42 AM Naram-Sin
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** Also in the series after the US Navy devastates the British Pacific Fleet in a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, a Confederate character calls the incident a "day that will live in infamy".

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** Also in the series after the US Navy devastates the British Pacific Fleet in a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, Harbor (as Hawaii became a Confederate British colony instead of an American territory), a British character calls the incident a "day that will live in infamy".infamy".
*** The main British fort in Pearl Harbor is called Fort William Rufus, after a Medieval king of England. It is on the site where OTL Fort Shafter stands, named after US Army General William Rufus Shafter.


Added DiffLines:

** Two white Confederates attend a negro boxing league match in 1914. After watching one of the boxers absolutely destroy his opponent, one of the whites wonders for a second about how the victor would fare [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Johnson_%28boxer%29#The_.22Fight_of_the_Century.22 against a white boxer]], then reminds himself that a mixed boxing match would never be allowed in the CSA, nor in the USA.
30th May '16 8:21:35 PM Doug86
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* FanSequel : One of the members of AlternateHistoryDotCom has written one for the timeline's post-WWII years. Read it [[http://wiki.alternatehistory.com/doku.php/timelines/tl-191_after_the_end here]]. As of June 2013, it has been finally completed and chronicles the developments of the TL-191 world between the alternate 1944 and 2009.

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* FanSequel : One of the members of AlternateHistoryDotCom Website/AlternateHistoryDotCom has written one for the timeline's post-WWII years. Read it [[http://wiki.alternatehistory.com/doku.php/timelines/tl-191_after_the_end here]]. As of June 2013, it has been finally completed and chronicles the developments of the TL-191 world between the alternate 1944 and 2009.
15th May '16 9:29:37 AM ares191
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* EarnYourHappyEnding: The Union goes through a lot of hell throughout the series, from two crushing defeats to two more costly wars, one of which they were completely caught off guard for and were nuked. Despite this, by the end of the end of In At The Death, the United States stands as one of the two most powerful countries in the world, has completely destroyed the Confederacy and have pushed the British and French (whose interference set the whole series into motion) out of the Americas.

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* EarnYourHappyEnding: The Union goes through a lot of hell throughout the series, from two crushing defeats to two more costly wars, one of which they were completely caught off guard for and were nuked. Despite this, by the end of the end of In At The Death, the United States stands as one of the two three most powerful countries in the world, world (the other two being ImperialJapan and ImperialGermany), has completely destroyed the Confederacy and have pushed the British and French (whose interference set the whole series into motion) out of the Americas.
13th May '16 11:06:37 AM TheOneWhoTropes
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* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: In an in-universe inversion, many of the United States' Founding Fathers, like the Virginians UsefulNotes/GeorgeWashington and ThomasJefferson, are much less well-regarded by United States citizens in this timeline because they were Southern, and Northerners no longer consider Southerners to be their countrymen. Very few of the Founding Fathers appear on US currency, with their "national hero" roles being filled by figures like Custer and Roosevelt, who are celebrated for fighting the Confederates.

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* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: In an in-universe inversion, many of the United States' Founding Fathers, like the Virginians UsefulNotes/GeorgeWashington and ThomasJefferson, UsefulNotes/ThomasJefferson, are much less well-regarded by United States citizens in this timeline because they were Southern, and Northerners no longer consider Southerners to be their countrymen. Very few of the Founding Fathers appear on US currency, with their "national hero" roles being filled by figures like Custer and Roosevelt, who are celebrated for fighting the Confederates.
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