History Literature / TheTalmud

24th Nov '15 6:48:11 PM karstovich2
Is there an issue? Send a Message


The existence of an "oral" Torah was a hotly contested issue before the Roman conquest of Judah; the Sadducees (an extinct political/religious entity tied to the priesthood and Hasamonean kings of Judah) vigorously denied any oral law. Their opponents, the Pharisees (the ancestors of modern-day rabbinical Judaism) accepted the oral law. Today, there are still groups of Jews (Karaites, and the dwindling Samaritan community) that reject the validity of the Talmud.[[note]]Disputes over the validity of the oral tradition are rather common in the Abrahamic tradition; the Protestant Reformation in UsefulNotes/{{Christianity}} was largely about the validity of the "Church tradition" that plays an important role in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine, and there are substantial movements in contemporary UsefulNotes/{{Islam}} (which, it should be noted, is about as old now as Christianity was when the Reformation happened) looking closely at reevaluating the ''Hadith'' (the "oral law" of Islam, consisting of things the Prophet is said to have said using modern techniques of textual criticism and analysis to see what he actually said and what he probably didn't).[[/note]]

to:

The existence of an "oral" Torah was a hotly contested issue before the Roman conquest of Judah; the Sadducees (an extinct political/religious entity tied to the priesthood and Hasamonean kings of Judah) vigorously denied any oral law. Their opponents, the Pharisees (the ancestors of modern-day rabbinical Judaism) accepted the oral law. Today, there are still groups of Jews (Karaites, and the dwindling Samaritan community) that reject the validity of the Talmud.[[note]]Disputes over the validity of the oral tradition are rather common in the Abrahamic tradition; the Protestant Reformation in UsefulNotes/{{Christianity}} was largely about the validity of the "Church tradition" that plays an important role in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine, and there are substantial movements in contemporary UsefulNotes/{{Islam}} (which, it should be noted, is about as old now as Christianity was when the Reformation happened) looking closely at reevaluating the ''Hadith'' (the "oral law" of Islam, consisting of things the Prophet is said to have said using modern techniques of textual criticism and analysis to see what he actually said and what he probably didn't). As always, the children follow the footsteps of the parent...[[/note]]
24th Nov '15 6:47:25 PM karstovich2
Is there an issue? Send a Message


The existence of an "oral" Torah was a hotly contested issue before the Roman conquest of Judah; the Sadducees (an extinct political/religious entity tied to the priesthood and Hasamonean kings of Judah) vigorously denied any oral law. Their opponents, the Pharisees (the ancestors of modern-day rabbinical Judaism) accepted the oral law. Today, there are still groups of Jews (Karaites, and the dwindling Samaritan community) that reject the validity of the Talmud.

to:

The existence of an "oral" Torah was a hotly contested issue before the Roman conquest of Judah; the Sadducees (an extinct political/religious entity tied to the priesthood and Hasamonean kings of Judah) vigorously denied any oral law. Their opponents, the Pharisees (the ancestors of modern-day rabbinical Judaism) accepted the oral law. Today, there are still groups of Jews (Karaites, and the dwindling Samaritan community) that reject the validity of the Talmud.
Talmud.[[note]]Disputes over the validity of the oral tradition are rather common in the Abrahamic tradition; the Protestant Reformation in UsefulNotes/{{Christianity}} was largely about the validity of the "Church tradition" that plays an important role in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine, and there are substantial movements in contemporary UsefulNotes/{{Islam}} (which, it should be noted, is about as old now as Christianity was when the Reformation happened) looking closely at reevaluating the ''Hadith'' (the "oral law" of Islam, consisting of things the Prophet is said to have said using modern techniques of textual criticism and analysis to see what he actually said and what he probably didn't).[[/note]]
24th Nov '15 6:41:03 PM karstovich2
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Nashim (Women), relating to things like marriage and divorce as well as laws about vows.

to:

* Nashim (Women), relating to things like marriage and divorce as well as laws about vows.vows (or, for lawyers: it's about family law, plus some other stuff).
8th Sep '15 5:30:58 AM Cidolfas
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* SealedEvilInACan: As Yossi Gurvitz, a noted leftist blogger who was raised as an Orthodox Jew, explains, you do NOT want to be around [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY When Israel Is Mighty]].



* StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as 'mice can be formed out of earth and snails can be formed out of rain' to justify the belief in the Resurrection in Jewish eschatology]]. You can look up more about the subject [[http://www.daatemet.org/?LANG=en here]].
** This, however, depends on whom you're asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren't executed is just because this era is not 'When Israel Is Mighty', and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber ("''Yeridat haDorot''"), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren't that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
8th Sep '15 5:29:04 AM Cidolfas
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* ScienceMarchesOn: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, even for people of the time, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant. A few more examples:
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 Snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 Women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 Cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they're younger than three years and a day, so molesting one [[InsaneTrollLogic isn't considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
4th Sep '15 6:06:01 PM mlsmithca
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they’re younger than three years and a day, so [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel molesting one]] [[InsaneTrollLogic isn’t considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.

to:

** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they’re they're younger than three years and a day, so [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel molesting one]] one [[InsaneTrollLogic isn’t isn't considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.



** StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as ‘mice can be formed out of earth and snails can be formed out of rain’ to justify the belief in the Resurrection in Jewish eschatology]]. You can look up more about the subject [[http://www.daatemet.org/?LANG=en here]].
*** This, however, depends on whom you’re asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren’t executed is just because this era is not ‘When Israel Is Mighty’, and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And ItGotWorse, as the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber (‘''Yeridat haDorot''’), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren’t that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
* TheStoryteller: there are several parables contained inside.

to:

** * TheStoryteller: There are several parables contained inside.
*
StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as ‘mice 'mice can be formed out of earth and snails can be formed out of rain’ rain' to justify the belief in the Resurrection in Jewish eschatology]]. You can look up more about the subject [[http://www.daatemet.org/?LANG=en here]].
*** ** This, however, depends on whom you’re you're asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren’t aren't executed is just because this era is not ‘When 'When Israel Is Mighty’, Mighty', and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And ItGotWorse, as the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber (‘''Yeridat haDorot''’), ("''Yeridat haDorot''"), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren’t aren't that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
* TheStoryteller: there are several parables contained inside.
issue]].
4th Sep '15 2:36:10 PM Techpriest10010111
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

* ScienceMarchesOn: The Talmud gets anatomical descriptions of animals grossly wrong, even for people of the time, including, for instance, getting the number of a cow’s stomachs wrong, as well as things like saying that only pigs have split hooves without being ruminant. A few more examples:
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=438 Snakes can mate with turtles and produce extra-dangerous snakes.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=123 Women can give birth to lambs.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=82 Cows can give birth to a calf directly into the womb of another cow.]]
** [[http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm?ISSUE_ID=175 A girl's hymen will grow back after penetration]] if they’re younger than three years and a day, so [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel molesting one]] [[InsaneTrollLogic isn’t considered actually molesting one]]. Despite claims to the contrary, the rapist is not exempt from punishment.
* SealedEvilInACan: As Yossi Gurvitz, a noted leftist blogger who was raised as an Orthodox Jew, explains, you do NOT want to be around [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY When Israel Is Mighty]].
** StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as ‘mice can be formed out of earth and snails can be formed out of rain’ to justify the belief in the Resurrection in Jewish eschatology]]. You can look up more about the subject [[http://www.daatemet.org/?LANG=en here]].
*** This, however, depends on whom you’re asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren’t executed is just because this era is not ‘When Israel Is Mighty’, and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And ItGotWorse, as the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber (‘''Yeridat haDorot''’), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren’t that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
25th Jun '15 7:13:39 PM karstovich2
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Nezikin (Damages), relating to monetary laws and court procedures (for those versed in UsefulNotes/TheCommonLaw, it sets out tort law, most contract law, property law, civil procedure, some criminal law, criminal procedure, and some of the law of evidence, especially as relates to oaths). This is the most popular order to learn in Orthodox ''yeshivas'', as it provides a wealth of depth and logic.

to:

* Nezikin (Damages), relating to monetary laws and court procedures (for those versed in UsefulNotes/TheCommonLaw, it sets out tort law, most contract law, property law, civil procedure, much of inheritance/wills and estates law, some criminal law, criminal procedure, and some of the law of evidence, especially as relates to oaths). This is the most popular order to learn in Orthodox ''yeshivas'', as it provides a wealth of depth and logic.
25th Jun '15 7:02:52 PM karstovich2
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Nezikin (Damages), relating to monetary laws and court procedures. This is the most popular order to learn in Orthodox ''yeshivas'', as it provides a wealth of depth and logic.

to:

* Nezikin (Damages), relating to monetary laws and court procedures.procedures (for those versed in UsefulNotes/TheCommonLaw, it sets out tort law, most contract law, property law, civil procedure, some criminal law, criminal procedure, and some of the law of evidence, especially as relates to oaths). This is the most popular order to learn in Orthodox ''yeshivas'', as it provides a wealth of depth and logic.
25th May '15 12:47:39 AM Sheora
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt: God desires this in Tractate Sanhedrin. Narrowly averted when He catches sight of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah - the three righteous men from the Literature/BookOfDaniel.

to:

* TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt: God desires this in Tractate Sanhedrin. Narrowly averted Averted when He catches sight of Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah - the three righteous men from the Literature/BookOfDaniel.
This list shows the last 10 events of 63. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Literature.TheTalmud