History Literature / TheTalmud

28th Jan '17 11:01:32 AM nngnna
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Nezikin, Moed, and Nashim, being the most practical of the three, are the most commonly studied; Kodshim is virtually useless, as there is no temple in Jerusalem right now, and much of Zeraim is considered to apply only to ''Eretz Yisrael'' and as such non-Israeli rabbis don't have much use for it (Israeli rabbis, on the other hand, do have some use, particularly since religious Jews started taking up farming as part of the Religious Zionist movement...although not ''that'' much use, since modern mechanized farming reduces the number of people needed to run a farm). As for Tohorot...

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Nezikin, Moed, and Nashim, being the three most practical of the three, bunch, are the most commonly studied; Kodshim is virtually useless, as there is no temple in Jerusalem right now, and much of Zeraim is considered to apply only to ''Eretz Yisrael'' and as such non-Israeli rabbis don't have much use for it (Israeli rabbis, on the other hand, do have some use, particularly since religious Jews started taking up farming as part of the Religious Zionist movement...although not ''that'' much use, since modern mechanized farming reduces the number of people needed to run a farm). As for Tohorot...
5th Jan '17 6:49:53 AM bedrockperson
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The Talmud was a frequent target of anti-semitic pogroms in the European Middle Ages, due to its denial of Jesus' divinity and a possible claim that he was an illegitimate son of a Roman soldier.

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The Talmud was a frequent target of anti-semitic pogroms in the European Middle Ages, due to its denial of Jesus' divinity and a possible claim that he was an illegitimate son of a Roman soldier. Maybe. It's actually unclear if the Talmud ever mentions Jesus, but regardless this was the assumption that many used to persecute Jewish populations.
5th Jan '17 6:46:31 AM bedrockperson
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* JesusWasWayCool: Averted and inverted; none of the Talmud editions have much good to say about him, and some specifically say (in Gittin 57) that he's being [[FireAndBrimstoneHell punished in Hell]] for [[ValuesDissonance being an apostate]].
** And it's very controversial whether said passage refers to Jesus ''at all''. Yeshu was a very common given name during the first century BCE. It's mainly used by anti-semites to imply that the Talmud is inherently anti-Christian.

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* JesusWasWayCool: Averted and inverted; inverted...maybe. It's very controversial whether any passages refers to Jesus ''at all'', as the term Yeshu, while very similar to Jesus' Hebrew name Yeshua, was a very common given name during the first century BCE. There are also a great number of major discrepancies between the life of Jesus and the life of Yeshu as described in the Talmud, ranging from being killed differently on different days in different cities, and only having a disciple with the same name in common. Since it's likely the Talmud was codified a while before Jesus was even born, the argument is mainly used by anti-semites to imply that the Talmud is inherently anti-Christian. Regardless of who Yeshu is, none of the Talmud editions have much good to say about him, and some specifically say (in Gittin 57) that he's being [[FireAndBrimstoneHell punished in Hell]] for [[ValuesDissonance being an apostate]].
** And it's very controversial whether said passage refers to Jesus ''at all''. Yeshu was a very common given name during the first century BCE. It's mainly used by anti-semites to imply that the Talmud is inherently anti-Christian.
6th Dec '16 9:20:37 PM ImperialMajestyXO
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A collection of rabbinical discussions of Jewish customs and theology. It is divided into the Mishnah (written about 200 CE), which is the first written collection of Jewish laws; and the Gemara (about 500 CE), which is a discussion of the Mishnah and Jewish works, including what Christians know as [[Literature/TheBible the Old Testament]]. Intellectual study and discussion of the Talmud has an important role among the customs and history of many Jews. If you have a story in which one of the characters is a [[GoodShepherd rabbi]], you can be fairly sure that they [[TheSmartGuy know a lot]] about the Talmud. And if you [[SchmuckBait wish to debate them or hear them expound]], you will [[SesquipedalianLoquaciousness get what you ask for]].

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A collection of rabbinical discussions of Jewish [[UsefulNotes/{{Judaism}} Jewish]] customs and theology. It is divided into the Mishnah (written about 200 CE), which is the first written collection of Jewish laws; and the Gemara (about 500 CE), which is a discussion of the Mishnah and Jewish works, including what Christians know as [[Literature/TheBible the Old Testament]]. Intellectual study and discussion of the Talmud has an important role among the customs and history of many Jews. If you have a story in which one of the characters is a [[GoodShepherd rabbi]], you can be fairly sure that they [[TheSmartGuy know a lot]] about the Talmud. And if you [[SchmuckBait wish to debate them or hear them expound]], you will [[SesquipedalianLoquaciousness get what you ask for]].
24th Jul '16 6:29:58 PM SantosLHalper
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* EldritchLocation: The Rabbis enter the realm of Pardes and encounter a palace made of marble so pure that it looks like water. Those who did not understand what they saw went mad.

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* EldritchLocation: The Rabbis enter the realm of Pardes {{Heaven}} and encounter a palace made of marble so pure that it looks like water. Those who did not understand what they saw went mad.



* GoMadFromTheRevelation: Rabbi Akiva, Ben Azzai, Ben Zoma, and Elisha ben Avuyah travel to the mystical realm of Pardes. Ben Azzai dies, Ben Zoma goes insane, and Elisha ben Avuyah does a FaceHeelTurn. Only Rabbi Akiva entered in peace and left in peace.

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* GoMadFromTheRevelation: Rabbi Akiva, Ben Azzai, Ben Zoma, and Elisha ben Avuyah travel to the mystical realm of Pardes.{{Heaven}}. Ben Azzai dies, Ben Zoma goes insane, and Elisha ben Avuyah does a FaceHeelTurn. Only Rabbi Akiva entered in peace and left in peace.
24th Jun '16 8:08:04 PM karstovich2
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* TheJudge : Much advice for arbitrating civil disputes between Jews is contained within.

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* TheJudge : Much advice for arbitrating adjudicating civil disputes between Jews is contained within.
24th Nov '15 6:48:11 PM karstovich2
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The existence of an "oral" Torah was a hotly contested issue before the Roman conquest of Judah; the Sadducees (an extinct political/religious entity tied to the priesthood and Hasamonean kings of Judah) vigorously denied any oral law. Their opponents, the Pharisees (the ancestors of modern-day rabbinical Judaism) accepted the oral law. Today, there are still groups of Jews (Karaites, and the dwindling Samaritan community) that reject the validity of the Talmud.[[note]]Disputes over the validity of the oral tradition are rather common in the Abrahamic tradition; the Protestant Reformation in UsefulNotes/{{Christianity}} was largely about the validity of the "Church tradition" that plays an important role in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine, and there are substantial movements in contemporary UsefulNotes/{{Islam}} (which, it should be noted, is about as old now as Christianity was when the Reformation happened) looking closely at reevaluating the ''Hadith'' (the "oral law" of Islam, consisting of things the Prophet is said to have said using modern techniques of textual criticism and analysis to see what he actually said and what he probably didn't).[[/note]]

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The existence of an "oral" Torah was a hotly contested issue before the Roman conquest of Judah; the Sadducees (an extinct political/religious entity tied to the priesthood and Hasamonean kings of Judah) vigorously denied any oral law. Their opponents, the Pharisees (the ancestors of modern-day rabbinical Judaism) accepted the oral law. Today, there are still groups of Jews (Karaites, and the dwindling Samaritan community) that reject the validity of the Talmud.[[note]]Disputes over the validity of the oral tradition are rather common in the Abrahamic tradition; the Protestant Reformation in UsefulNotes/{{Christianity}} was largely about the validity of the "Church tradition" that plays an important role in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine, and there are substantial movements in contemporary UsefulNotes/{{Islam}} (which, it should be noted, is about as old now as Christianity was when the Reformation happened) looking closely at reevaluating the ''Hadith'' (the "oral law" of Islam, consisting of things the Prophet is said to have said using modern techniques of textual criticism and analysis to see what he actually said and what he probably didn't). As always, the children follow the footsteps of the parent...[[/note]]
24th Nov '15 6:47:25 PM karstovich2
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The existence of an "oral" Torah was a hotly contested issue before the Roman conquest of Judah; the Sadducees (an extinct political/religious entity tied to the priesthood and Hasamonean kings of Judah) vigorously denied any oral law. Their opponents, the Pharisees (the ancestors of modern-day rabbinical Judaism) accepted the oral law. Today, there are still groups of Jews (Karaites, and the dwindling Samaritan community) that reject the validity of the Talmud.

to:

The existence of an "oral" Torah was a hotly contested issue before the Roman conquest of Judah; the Sadducees (an extinct political/religious entity tied to the priesthood and Hasamonean kings of Judah) vigorously denied any oral law. Their opponents, the Pharisees (the ancestors of modern-day rabbinical Judaism) accepted the oral law. Today, there are still groups of Jews (Karaites, and the dwindling Samaritan community) that reject the validity of the Talmud.
Talmud.[[note]]Disputes over the validity of the oral tradition are rather common in the Abrahamic tradition; the Protestant Reformation in UsefulNotes/{{Christianity}} was largely about the validity of the "Church tradition" that plays an important role in both Catholic and Orthodox doctrine, and there are substantial movements in contemporary UsefulNotes/{{Islam}} (which, it should be noted, is about as old now as Christianity was when the Reformation happened) looking closely at reevaluating the ''Hadith'' (the "oral law" of Islam, consisting of things the Prophet is said to have said using modern techniques of textual criticism and analysis to see what he actually said and what he probably didn't).[[/note]]
24th Nov '15 6:41:03 PM karstovich2
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* Nashim (Women), relating to things like marriage and divorce as well as laws about vows.

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* Nashim (Women), relating to things like marriage and divorce as well as laws about vows.vows (or, for lawyers: it's about family law, plus some other stuff).
8th Sep '15 5:30:58 AM Cidolfas
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* SealedEvilInACan: As Yossi Gurvitz, a noted leftist blogger who was raised as an Orthodox Jew, explains, you do NOT want to be around [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY When Israel Is Mighty]].



* StrawmanHasAPoint: The Talmud really is filled to the brim with misogyny, xenophobia, anti-democratic attitudes, and lots of other horrific things like permission of rape of girls under three-years-and-a-day old by their own fathers. Also, [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking it is grossly unscientific, using explanations such as 'mice can be formed out of earth and snails can be formed out of rain' to justify the belief in the Resurrection in Jewish eschatology]]. You can look up more about the subject [[http://www.daatemet.org/?LANG=en here]].
** This, however, depends on whom you're asking, as the interpretation of which parts were to be taken at face value and which ones are allegorical seem to change from time to time (Maïmonides, for instance, lived in the relatively Jew-friendly 11th century Muslim Morocco, and claimed only the supernatural legends are allegorical, while the rulings should be interpeted literally; later on, in much less Jew-friendly 14th century Europe, these legends were interpreted more literally as a sort of escapism from the harsher reality). Also, as mentioned in Sealed Evil in a Can above, the fact that the more harrowing laws aren't executed is just because this era is not 'When Israel Is Mighty', and, in fact, those rules are still very relevant to the way of thought of way too many Orthodox Jews (as the occasional slip of the tongue of way too many rabbis, that is too easily overlooked, can indicate). And the Talmud firmly establishes that while gentiles get wiser with every generations, Jews get dumber ("''Yeridat haDorot''"), which pretty much prevents any overruling of Talmud rulings.
** It should also be said the vast majority of Jews aren't that well-versed in the Talmud, if they ever even tried reading it, but Orthodox Jews definitely have more experience with it and more faith in it, and the fact that they are growing in number and influence in Israel is not very encouraging, to say the least... And then again, they often claim that the Talmud should not be taken literally, but often seem to act as if it does (disallowing women to sit in the front of the bus, refusing to rent apartments to Arabs, &c.) and have the occasional slip of the tongue that show extremely disturbing states of mind. To sum it up, [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment this is a complicated issue]].
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