History Literature / TheIliad

5th Jun '16 6:31:27 AM LogicDragon
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5th Jun '16 6:31:25 AM LogicDragon
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* AntiHero: At the time of the tale's origin, Achilles was definitely ''not'' an antihero, but due to ValuesDissonance, many readers see Achilles as a colossal JerkAss and are more sympathetic to Hector, who is not a nice guy either.

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* AntiHero: At the time of the tale's origin, Achilles was definitely ''not'' perhaps less of an antihero, but due to ValuesDissonance, many readers see Achilles as a colossal JerkAss and are more sympathetic to Hector, who is not a nice guy either.
3rd Apr '16 11:02:47 AM ading
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* ForegoneConclusion: Homer's audience would have been very familiar with the myths behind the story, and known how it all ended. The fact that the Trojans are doomed to lose is known even by Hector himself.

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* ForegoneConclusion: Homer's audience would have been very familiar with the myths behind the story, and known how it all ended. The fact that the Trojans are doomed to lose is known even by Hector himself. Even if the audience doesn't know beforehand, Zeus explains midway through what's going to happen in the rest of the epic.



* ManlyTears: Many times. The most famous example being between Achilles and King Priam [[spoiler: when Priam begs Achilles to return the body of his son Hector for burial. Priam's passion moves Achilles who begins thinking about his lost friend Patroclus and his own aged father back in Greece, who will soon lose his son; and the two men weep together over their loss.]]

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* ManlyTears: Many times. The most famous example being between Achilles and King Priam [[spoiler: when Priam begs Achilles to return the body of his son Hector for burial. Priam's passion moves Achilles who begins thinking about his lost friend Patroclus and his own aged father back in Greece, who will soon lose his son; and the two men weep together over their loss.]]



* TragicBromance: [[spoiler:Achilles and Patroclus]]

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* TragicBromance: [[spoiler:Achilles Achilles and Patroclus]]Patroclus.
13th Mar '16 8:50:15 AM LordGro
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Added DiffLines:

* HeroicAmbidexterity: The Trojan [[BitCharacter Asteropaeus]] throws both his spears at once, "for both his arms were as his right", when he faces off against Achilles. One of the spears hits Achilles in the arm, making Asteropaeus the first Trojan to give Achilles a wound. Nevertheless Asteropaeus is slain in the ensuing sword-fight.
3rd Feb '16 3:33:17 PM CaptainCrawdad
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* AchillesInHisTent (but not AchillesHeel; the "invulnerable except for his heel" superpower comes from Statius's fanfic some nine centuries after Homer)

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* AchillesInHisTent (but not AchillesHeel; the "invulnerable except for his heel" superpower comes from Statius's fanfic some nine centuries after Homer)



%%* AchillesInHisTent: The TropeNamer.

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%%* * AchillesInHisTent: The TropeNamer.Achilles refuses to come out and fight due to a squabble with Agamemnon.



* ArmorIsUseless: Played with. Oddly enough, whether a warrior's armor protects him or not depends on how much PlotArmor he has; in a sense, the real armor is used as a {{Handwave}} for Plot Armor. At any rate, this is a DefiedTrope in-universe, considering that every time a warrior dies there is a fight over who gets to keep the armor.

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* ArmorIsUseless: Played with. Oddly enough, whether a warrior's armor protects him or not depends on how much PlotArmor he has; in a sense, the real armor is used as a {{Handwave}} for Plot Armor. At any rate, this is a DefiedTrope in-universe, considering that every time a warrior dies there is a fight over who gets to keep the armor.



* AuthorityEqualsAsskicking: All the heroes are nobles, and the battles are all decided by how well they fight each other. This is fundamental to the warfare of the time; it is the noble's duty to kick ass. The common soldiers are just mooks.
* BadAss: Achilles, [[Literature/TheAeneid Aeneas]], [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking Agamemnon]], [[TheBigGuy Ajax]], [[OneSteveLimit the other Ajax]], [[BadassNormal Diomedes]], Glaucus, [[BadassGrandpa Nestor]], [[TheRival Hector]], Patroclus, [[GeniusBruiser Odysseus]], Sarpedon, Menelaus... [[WorldOfBadass EVERYONE, in fact]]. Except [[DirtyCoward for]] [[TheLoad Paris]]. There are, perhaps surprisingly in a work this old[[note]]this is a discussion unto itself, but, in short: modern misogyny in media ''is'', well, modern, and really old works seldom display it (while they're often stories told by men to other men, about men and manly things, female reality is typically acknowledged as valid too: ''Literature/TheOdyssey'' mentions women and female matters so often that 19th and early 20th century scholars proposed the hypothesis that it had been written by a woman (which may be the case, but it's also possible that it was written by a man who didn't share 19th/early 20th century views on women))[[/note]], even some female badasses: Hera, Athena[[labelnote:How badass is Athena?]]she's so badass that by simply standing in her Field of Badassery for a couple of moments, a guy gets the ability to take on ''gods''[[/labelnote]], and Helena.
%%* BarbarianHero: Most of the Greeks.

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* AuthorityEqualsAsskicking: All the heroes are nobles, and the battles are all decided by how well they fight each other. This is fundamental to the warfare of the time; it is the noble's duty to kick ass. The common soldiers are just mooks.
* BadAss: BadAss:
** For the humans, there is
Achilles, [[Literature/TheAeneid Aeneas]], [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking Agamemnon]], [[TheBigGuy Ajax]], [[OneSteveLimit the other Ajax]], [[BadassNormal Diomedes]], Glaucus, [[BadassGrandpa Nestor]], [[TheRival Hector]], Patroclus, [[GeniusBruiser Odysseus]], Sarpedon, Menelaus... [[WorldOfBadass EVERYONE, in fact]]. Except [[DirtyCoward for]] [[TheLoad Paris]]. There are, perhaps surprisingly in a work this old[[note]]this is a discussion unto itself, but, in short: modern misogyny in media ''is'', well, modern,
** For the goddesses, there's Hera
and really old works seldom display it (while they're often stories told by men to other men, about men and manly things, female reality is typically acknowledged as valid too: ''Literature/TheOdyssey'' mentions women and female matters so often that 19th and early 20th century scholars proposed the hypothesis that it had been written by a woman (which may be the case, but it's also possible that it was written by a man who didn't share 19th/early 20th century views on women))[[/note]], even some female badasses: Hera, Athena[[labelnote:How badass is Athena?]]she's so badass that by simply standing in her Field of Badassery for a couple of moments, a guy gets the ability to take on ''gods''[[/labelnote]], and Helena.
%%* BarbarianHero: Most of the Greeks.
Athena.



* BecauseDestinySaysSo: The prophecy that the newborn Alexandros/Paris would grow up to bring doom to Troy. Thus, UsefulNotes/TheTrojanWar and everything connected with it happen because of destiny.
** More complicated than that. To the Greeks, fate was the destination, not the path we take to get there. (Notice that even in English "destiny" comes from the same root as "destination".) According to a legend (not actually in the ''Iliad''), Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite asked Paris to judge a beauty contest between them. Then each one offered him a bribe -- power, wealth, or the most beautiful woman on Earth. Paris opted for that last bribe, which is how the war started. But that wasn't destined. Paris was free to take one of the other bribes -- and undoubtedly, each one of them would've resulted in Troy's destruction, but in a different way.

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* BecauseDestinySaysSo: BecauseDestinySaysSo:
**
The prophecy that the newborn Alexandros/Paris would grow up to bring doom to Troy. Thus, UsefulNotes/TheTrojanWar and everything connected with it happen worked out that way because of destiny.
** More complicated than that. To the Greeks, fate was the destination, not the path we take to get there. (Notice that even in English "destiny" comes from the same root as "destination".) According to a legend (not actually in the ''Iliad''), Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite asked Paris to judge a beauty contest between them. Then each one offered him a bribe -- power, wealth, or the most beautiful woman on Earth. Paris opted for that last bribe, which is how the war started. But that wasn't destined. Paris was free to take one of the other bribes -- and undoubtedly, each one of them would've resulted in Troy's destruction, but in a different way.
destiny.



* TheBerserker: Achilles and, to the surprise of anyone familiar with the various adaptations, Agamemnon. Seriously, read his rampage in Book 11. It screams UnstoppableRage.

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* TheBerserker: TheBerserker:
**
Achilles and, to the surprise of anyone familiar with the various adaptations, Agamemnon. Seriously, read his rampage in Book 11. It screams UnstoppableRage.



%%* BigBrotherInstinct: Agamemnon to Menelaus.
* BigGood: Agamemnon is a subversion. He's the leader of the Greeks and the one who began the campaign, but not even he can resist the temptation to KickTheDog.
** There is no clear bad guy in the Iliad so the Trojans have their own BigGood. Or rather, they have two of them. Priam is TheGoodKing while Hector leads their army in the field as TheLeader.
* TheBigGuy: Telamonean/Big Ajax, aka Greater Ajax and Ajax the Giant. He's the biggest soldier among the Greek forces. Sarpedon seems to play a similar role on the Trojan side. Both are pretty decent guys.

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%%* * BigBrotherInstinct: Agamemnon Agamemnon, elder brother to Menelaus.
* BigGood: Agamemnon is a subversion. He's the leader of the Greeks and the one who began the campaign, but not even he can resist the temptation to KickTheDog.
** There is no clear bad guy in the Iliad so the Trojans have their own BigGood. Or rather, they have two of them. Priam is TheGoodKing while Hector
Menelaus, leads their army in the field as TheLeader.
forces to win back his brother's wife.
* TheBigGuy: Telamonean/Big Ajax, aka Ajax Telamonean, who is called Greater Ajax and Ajax the Giant. for a reason. He's the biggest soldier among the Greek forces.forces and judged second only to Achilles in fighting strength. Sarpedon seems to play a similar role on the Trojan side. Both are pretty decent guys.



* TheCassandra: While the TropeNamer herself makes a minor appearance, she actually doesn't qualify in this case. Polydamas, on the other hand, is a Trojan of good standing and well-recognized intelligence whose advice Hector violently rejects on multiple occasions, leading to massive losses for the Trojans and their allies and Hector's eventual death.
** Nestor, the CoolOldGuy OldSoldier {{Mentor}} for the Greeks' side, is clearly the wisest of the Greeks in advice (next to Diomedes, since he is stated to actually have more combat experience than the other warriors, having fought in a previous war before this one). No one listens to him, most probably because everyone else (with the exception of Odysseus(maybe) and Diomedes) is too HotBlooded to care.



%%* DeadSidekick: Patroclus for Achilles.

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%%* * DeadSidekick: Patroclus for Achilles.is Achilles' sidekick and gets killed, driving Achilles' actions thereon.



%%* DeusExMachina: All over the place, naturally.



** During his RoaringRampageOfRevenge, Achilles beats down the local river god. While crossing it. Subverted because Achilles is almost drowned in the process and has to be rescued by the god Hephaestus.

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** During his RoaringRampageOfRevenge, Achilles beats down the local river god. While god while crossing it. Subverted because Achilles is it, but almost gets drowned in the process and has to be rescued by the god Hephaestus.



* DirtyCoward: Paris, especially in the fight against Menelaus. Some theorize that it's because ancient Greeks in general and Homer considered archery as un-{{Badass}} compared to melee combat and spear-throwing, but a number of prominent Greek heroes, notably Teucer, Philoctetes, Heracles and the hero of [[Literature/TheOdyssey Homer's other epic]] were also [[TheArcher ace archers]].

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* DirtyCoward: Paris, especially in Paris is given this characterization when he flees from the fight against with Menelaus. Some theorize that it's because ancient Greeks in general and Homer considered archery as un-{{Badass}} compared to melee combat and spear-throwing, but a number of prominent Greek heroes, notably Teucer, Philoctetes, Heracles and the hero of [[Literature/TheOdyssey Homer's other epic]] were also [[TheArcher ace archers]].



*** However, after Achilles has rejoined the Greek force, Agamemnon suggests that his actions might have been influenced by the goddess Folly. This might simply be a cheap excuse, but seeing as this is a world where [[JerkassGods everything is micromanaged by the gods]], it's not all that unlikely.



* GoodCopBadCop: Odysseus and Diomedes were on a night raid and captured the hapless but useful Dolon. Bad cop Diomedes said to stand still or die. Good cop Odysseus said, "''Fear not, let no thought of death be in your mind."'' It went on like that for awhile until Diomedes "''struck him in the middle of his neck with his sword and cut through both sinews so that his head fell rolling in the dust while he was yet speaking."''

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* GoodCopBadCop: Odysseus and Diomedes were on a night raid and captured the hapless but useful Dolon. Bad cop Diomedes said says to stand still or die. Good cop Odysseus said, says, "''Fear not, let no thought of death be in your mind."'' It went goes on like that for awhile until Diomedes "''struck him in the middle of his neck with his sword and cut through both sinews so that his head fell rolling in the dust while he was yet speaking."''



** One could say that Paris is the BigBad, while the rest of the Trojans and their allies are {{Anti Villain}}s, while the Greeks range from [[TheHero heroic]], to {{Anti Hero}}ic, to {{Sociopathic Hero}}es.



* ItsAllMyFault:
** Achilles after Patroclus' death -- he's right.
** Helen probably feels immense guilt for causing a ten-year war.
** In the sequel to the Iliad, the Odyssey, we discover that she indeed does feel guilt but only for the Greeks that died trying to rescue her, not for the Trojans. She goes so far like telling to Telemachus (Odysseus' son) that when his father sneaked in Troy, disguised like a beggar, not only she didn't betray him, but she did take delight hearing the crying of the trojan women whose husbands Odysseus has killed, because that did mean that she return to her home soon

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* ItsAllMyFault:
**
ItsAllMyFault: Achilles after Patroclus' death -- he's right.
** Helen probably feels immense guilt for causing a ten-year war.
** In the sequel to the Iliad, the Odyssey, we discover that she indeed does feel guilt but only for the Greeks that died trying to rescue her, not for the Trojans. She goes so far like telling to Telemachus (Odysseus' son) that when his father sneaked in Troy, disguised like a beggar, not only she didn't betray him, but she did take delight hearing the crying of the trojan women whose husbands Odysseus has killed, because that did mean that she return to her home soon
right.



%%* KnowWhenToFoldEm: Hector doesn't.



%%* LivingMacGuffin: Helen of Troy.

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%%* * LivingMacGuffin: The official objective of the Trojan War is to possess Helen of Troy.



** Further underlining this, Menelaus, despite being a Spartan king, was considered a poor soldier by both sides and Paris still got his ass kicked despite Aphrodite raining Hax down on the duel. To add insult to injury Menelaus defeated him bare-handed. After his sword broke, he grabbed Paris' helmet and began to drag him around, this while Paris still had his sword in his hand.



%%* LoverNotAFighter: Paris
* LudicrousGibs: Sometimes the deaths in ''Iliad'' are quite messy. Homer goes into loving detail about how each weapon is swung/thrown, how it flies through the air, who it hits, what part of their body it hits, how it penetrated their armor, which internal organs it damages, whether/how it exits their body, how long it takes them to die, how they die, and their comrades' reaction to their death.
** These details were essentially 'oral memorials' kept to commemorate the dead in a society where most of the populace were illiterate and the honored dead were cremated. See NominalImportance.

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%%* * LoverNotAFighter: Paris
Paris is known for stealing Helen and being a poor fighter.
* LudicrousGibs: Sometimes the deaths in ''Iliad'' are quite messy. Homer goes into loving detail about how each weapon is swung/thrown, how it flies through the air, who it hits, what part of their body it hits, how it penetrated their armor, which internal organs it damages, whether/how it exits their body, how long it takes them to die, how they die, and their comrades' reaction to their death.
**
death. These details were essentially 'oral memorials' kept to commemorate the dead in a society where most of the populace were illiterate and the honored dead were cremated. See NominalImportance.



* MaliciousSlander: While it was understandable for the time period and the fact that she caused the war (even if unwillingly), ''nearly everyone in Troy'' called Helen a whore or treated her with disrespect. Good thing Hector is there to be a man and stand up for his sister-in-law.
** Although Helen is frequently slandered in the ''Iliad'', she is really the only person to do so. The Trojan men in particular, including Hector, Priam, and the other elders, are quite kind to her.



* MenDontCry: In book 16 the crabby Achilles asks Patroclus why he's crying, comparing him to a blubbering baby girl begging for her mama.
** Subverted when fearsome generals, like Agamemnon and Achilles openly cry in front of their men, with no shame for it. Justified Trope, as in Greek society, men crying was not considered a shame.

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* MenDontCry: In spite of Greek culture not looking down on crying as unmanly, in book 16 the crabby Achilles asks Patroclus why he's crying, comparing him to a blubbering baby girl begging for her mama.
** Subverted when fearsome generals, like Agamemnon and Achilles openly cry in front of their men, with no shame for it. Justified Trope, as in Greek society, men crying was not considered a shame.
mama.



%%* TheMentor: Nestor tries. He really, really does.

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%%* * TheMentor: The elderly Nestor tries. He really, really does.tries to talk sense into Achilles.



* NominalImportance: Averted. We learn the names, and usually the fathers' names, of hundreds of characters whose only purpose is to be slaughtered.
** This was not simply for purposes of {{Gorn}}, however. Homer's audience were powerful men, most of whom (truthfully or otherwise) claimed descent from one or more of those who fought at Troy. Each death was significant to somebody in one of his audiences, and glossing over these details would have been disrespectful to the men who were paying him to recite the poem.



* OnlyKnownByTheirNickname: Helen of Troy, who got that name -- in the English-speaking world! -- after being abducted by a Trojan prince. Almost nobody calls her "Helen of Sparta."

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* OnlyKnownByTheirNickname: Helen of Troy, who got that name -- in the English-speaking world! world -- after being abducted by a Trojan prince. Almost nobody calls her "Helen of Sparta."



* ARealManIsAKiller: I suppose you figured that one out already.

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* ARealManIsAKiller: I suppose you figured that one out already.The men are all soldiers.



* SadlyMythtaken: ''TheIliad'' is an epic poem, not a myth. It also does not contain many well-known events in UsefulNotes/TheTrojanWar, such as the Trojan Horse, the death of Achilles, the theft of the Palladium, the fall of Troy, etc. Some of these events are mentioned in the ''[[Literature/TheOdyssey Odyssey]]'', but we've lost the other epics from the Literature/TrojanCycle that actually deal with these episodes. Some colorful additions (like Achilles' AchillesHeel) come from sources ''much'' later.

to:

* SadlyMythtaken: ''TheIliad'' ''The Iliad'' is an epic poem, not a myth. It also does not contain many well-known events in UsefulNotes/TheTrojanWar, such as the Trojan Horse, the death of Achilles, the theft of the Palladium, the fall of Troy, etc. Some of these events are mentioned in the ''[[Literature/TheOdyssey Odyssey]]'', but we've lost the other epics from the Literature/TrojanCycle that actually deal with these episodes. Some colorful additions (like Achilles' AchillesHeel) come from sources ''much'' later.



%%* SoBeautifulItsACurse: Probably the TropeCodifier.

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%%* * SoBeautifulItsACurse: Probably the TropeCodifier.Helen is kidnapped and has a war waged over her for her beauty.



%%* UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny: The original.

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%%* * UltimateShowdownOfUltimateDestiny: The original.story is largely a build-up to Hector v. Achilles.



%%* YouCantFightFate: What we would call an OverusedRunningGag.

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%%* * YouCantFightFate: What we would call an OverusedRunningGag.Troy was always going to fall.
18th Jan '16 10:26:59 AM MrDeath
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* MacGuffin: The plague at the beginning. Despite supposedly killing countless Achaeans, none of its victims are named, it has no lasting effect on the strength of the army, and it's totally forgotten for the rest of the story.
17th Jan '16 6:38:04 PM werehyena
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Added DiffLines:

* MacGuffin: The plague at the beginning. Despite supposedly killing countless Achaeans, none of its victims are named, it has no lasting effect on the strength of the army, and it's totally forgotten for the rest of the story.
6th Jan '16 2:43:59 PM 5p4r74n
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*** However, after Achilles has rejoined the Greek force, he suggests that Agamemnon's actions might have been influenced by the goddess Folly. This might simply be a cheap excuse, but seeing as this is a world where [[JerkassGods everything is micromanaged by the gods]], it's not all that unlikely.

to:

*** However, after Achilles has rejoined the Greek force, he Agamemnon suggests that Agamemnon's his actions might have been influenced by the goddess Folly. This might simply be a cheap excuse, but seeing as this is a world where [[JerkassGods everything is micromanaged by the gods]], it's not all that unlikely.
6th Jan '16 2:32:38 PM 5p4r74n
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*** However, after Achilles has rejoined the Greek force, he suggests that his actions against Agamemnon might have been influenced by the goddess Folly. This might simply be a cheap excuse, but seeing as this is a world where [[JerkassGods everything is micromanaged by the gods]], it's not all that unlikely.

to:

*** However, after Achilles has rejoined the Greek force, he suggests that his Agamemnon's actions against Agamemnon might have been influenced by the goddess Folly. This might simply be a cheap excuse, but seeing as this is a world where [[JerkassGods everything is micromanaged by the gods]], it's not all that unlikely.
6th Jan '16 2:32:01 PM 5p4r74n
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*** However, after Achilles has rejoined the Greek force, he suggests that his actions against Achilles might have been influenced by the goddess Folly. This might simply be a cheap excuse, but seeing as this is a world where [[JerkassGods everything is micromanaged by the gods]], it's not all that unlikely.

to:

*** However, after Achilles has rejoined the Greek force, he suggests that his actions against Achilles Agamemnon might have been influenced by the goddess Folly. This might simply be a cheap excuse, but seeing as this is a world where [[JerkassGods everything is micromanaged by the gods]], it's not all that unlikely.
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