History Literature / TheGunsOfTheSouth

31st Aug '16 1:55:56 PM ScrewySqrl
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* HistoricalDomainCharacter: Robert E. Lee, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Abraham Lincoln, and the other generals, plus ''every member'' of the Castelia Invincibles (though with less known about them, Turtledove made up much of their characterization)
9th Aug '16 8:31:05 AM jadmire
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* ThisIsMyBoomstick: Deconstructed. The AWB present many future devices to the Confederates, but until explanations start coming out much of it is accepted as simply an advanced part of their own world. It is not until Rhoodie explicitly states that he is from the future that Lee even begins to suspect such an event.

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* ThisIsMyBoomstick: Deconstructed. The AWB present many future devices to the Confederates, but until explanations start coming out much of it is accepted as simply an advanced part of their own world.world; this produces a funny moment early on, for example, when Rhoodie is somewhat disconcerted at Lee's matter-of-fact reaction to seeing a MRE (Lee notes that he's familiar with the Union practice of dessicating vegetables for army use but hadn't been aware that the Federals had extended it to entire meals). It is not until Rhoodie explicitly states that he is from the future that Lee even begins to suspect such an event.
9th Aug '16 7:22:01 AM jadmire
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* ReasonableAuthorityFigure: Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America. Though numerous characters point out that he can be extremely fractious and lets his personal animosity effect his ability to work with certain people, he is on extremely good terms with General Lee throughout the course of the novel. He supports Lee in all his military campaigns, agrees with him regarding the dangers of the AWB, and pushes Lee to run for President himself.

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* ReasonableAuthorityFigure: Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America. Though numerous characters point out that he can be extremely fractious and lets his personal animosity effect his ability to work with certain people, he is on extremely good terms with General Lee throughout the course of the novel. He supports Lee in all his military campaigns, agrees with him regarding the dangers of the AWB, and pushes Lee to run for President himself. In the end, Davis willingly, indeed enthusiastically, subordinates himself to Lee and agrees to join Lee's Cabinet as Secretary of War - the job he always really wanted in the first place - saying that if he wants to continue his career in public service, it will necessarily have to be at a lower level of authority.
9th Aug '16 7:16:17 AM jadmire
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** General Benjamin Butler. He is despised for his nasty occupation of New Orleans, where he said any woman who criticizes the presence of the Union army should be considered nothing more than a whore. His presence at the peace talks is considered an insult, and at the opening to the negotiations he mocks Judah Benjamin for being a Jew solely for negotiating advantage.

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** General Benjamin Butler. He is despised for his nasty occupation of New Orleans, [[TruthInTelevision where he said any woman who criticizes the presence of the Union army should be considered nothing more than a whore.whore]]. His presence at the peace talks is considered an insult, and at the opening to the negotiations he mocks Judah Benjamin for being a Jew solely for negotiating advantage.
1st Aug '16 5:04:43 PM Teakay
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** Erstwhile-Corporal Billy Beddingfield has a generally unpleasant personality, kills surrendering black soldiers, and nearly puts a bullet in Lincoln.
23rd Jun '16 1:08:12 PM JBK405
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* AKA47: Averted. The rifles are specifically referred to as the AK-47 and their care and maintenance is based on the real rifle. All other real-life guns that make an appearance are also given their proper names by the Rivington men.



* UsefulNotes/TheAmericanCivilWar: Duh.
* AmoralAfrikaner: Every single member of the AWB.
* AndThenWhat: Lee is asked this a couple of times, first by Abraham Lincoln, and then by Lord Lyons, the British Minister to the USA who is himself an opponent of slavery and famous for having diffused the Trent Affair. They both tell him that he must put the Confederacy on a course for the future. Lee's response is that, whatever type of nation they become, they will ''be'' a nation.

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* UsefulNotes/TheAmericanCivilWar: Duh.
* AmoralAfrikaner: Every single member of The AWB is a South Africa white supremacist group that travelled back in time to preserve White Power in the AWB.
South.
* AndThenWhat: Lee is asked this several times as the war comes to a couple of times, close, first by Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln and then by Lord Lyons, the British Minister to the USA who is himself an opponent of slavery and famous for having diffused the Trent Affair. USA. They both tell him that he must put the Confederacy on a course for the future. future, and wonder what kind of nation it will become. Lee's response is that, whatever type of nation they become, they will ''be'' a nation.



* BigBad: Andries Rhoodie

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* BigBad: Andries RhoodieRhoodie, the leader of the AWB.



* CallARabbitASmeerp: The Confederates do not know the names for some of the future technology and come up with their own names. They refer to a belt-fed machine gun as an 'endless repeater' and a computer as a 'qwerty', after the letters on the keyboard. Cup-of-soup are known as "desiccated meals", based on similarities to their own desiccated vegetables.

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* BottomlessMagazines: Averted. The soldiers are carefully instructed that full-auto is actually mostly useless except in ''extreme'' circumstances -- it's the ability to fire single shots without stopping to reload that is their primary advantage.
* CallARabbitASmeerp: The Confederates do not know the names for some much of the future technology they encounter, and come up with their own names. They refer to a belt-fed machine gun as an 'endless repeater' and a computer as a 'qwerty', after the letters on the keyboard. Cup-of-soup are known as "desiccated meals", based on similarities to their own desiccated vegetables.



* CoversAlwaysLie: This happening to ''another'' author's book was actually the inspiration for this one--see below.

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* CoversAlwaysLie: This happening to ''another'' Harry Turtledove had heard the cover of another author's book was actually the inspiration for described as being as anachronistic as Robert E. Lee holding an Uzi. Afterwards, he wrote this one--see below. book to explain how such a thing might come to pass.



* EasyLogistics: Averted. The difficulties of supplying an army in the field come up a number of times, though the AWB are tripped up by this a little - they have a huge stock of AK-47s and ammunition ready to supply to the Confederacy, but weren't expecting them to be interested in their field rations.



** The book analyzes the difference between conservative racism (people are racist from societal condition and what "they" say) and reactionary racism (active hatred and degradation based on personal beliefs). This is demonstrated in early chapters where one of Caudell's squadmates says that if he owned slaves, he would want a Rivington man as an overseer, but quickly recants when he sees how harshly they treat blacks, remarking that their attitude would either cause a lot of runaways or an outright revolt.

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** The book analyzes the difference between conservative racism (people are racist from societal condition and what "they" say) and reactionary racism (active hatred and degradation based on personal beliefs). This is demonstrated in early chapters where one of Caudell's squadmates says that if he owned slaves, he would want a Rivington man as an overseer, but quickly recants when he sees how harshly they treat blacks, remarking that their attitude would either cause a lot of runaways or an outright revolt.



* FemmeFataleSpy: Molly Bean, who is brought into the headquarters of the AWB and becomes a favored bedmate after the war. Ignorant and only recently taught to read, she nonetheless becomes a vital part of the attempts by the South to destroy them. While she is spying on them, she sends letters to Nate describing futuristic things like electricity and books that haven't yet been published, causing him to figure out that they're from the future.

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* FemmeFataleSpy: Molly Bean, who Bean is brought into not an intentional spy, but after the headquarters of the AWB and war she becomes a favored bedmate after the war. Ignorant and only recently taught to read, she nonetheless becomes a vital part of several of the attempts by the South to destroy them. While Rivington men and stumbles across many of their secrets. When she is spying on them, she sends letters to Nate describing futuristic things like electricity and books that haven't yet been published, causing him to figure out that they're ultimately finds herself in possession of a history book from the future.future, [[spoiler:she smuggles it out of Rivington and brings to Robert E. Lee]].



* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: While the second Act of the novel treats him as the primary antagonist, Nathan Bedford Forrest receives surprisingly sympathetic treatment for being the founder of the Ku Klux Klan (which he noticeably ''doesn't'' do in the revised timeline, although his political supporters "[[IncrediblyLamePun Forrest's Trees]]" wear similar outfits as an AllohistoricalAllusion).
* HoistByHisOwnPetard[=/=]KarmicDeath: [[spoiler:Andries Rhoodie is killed when one of his slaves stabs him in the throat with a broken bottle. The Confederates ignore the law and let him go, having learned how horribly Rhoodie (and indeed most of AWB) treated their slaves; one soldier even remarks [[KickTheSonOfABitch "Reckon the son of a bitch had it coming."]] ]]

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* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: While the second Act of the novel treats him as the primary antagonist, Nathan Bedford Forrest receives surprisingly sympathetic treatment for being the a founder of the Ku Klux Klan (which he noticeably ''doesn't'' do in the revised timeline, although his political supporters "[[IncrediblyLamePun Forrest's Trees]]" wear similar outfits as an AllohistoricalAllusion).
* HoistByHisOwnPetard[=/=]KarmicDeath: HoistByHisOwnPetard: [[spoiler:Andries Rhoodie is killed when one of his slaves stabs him in the throat with a broken bottle. The Confederates soldiers present ignore the law and let him the slave go, having learned how horribly Rhoodie (and indeed most of AWB) treated their slaves; one soldier even remarks [[KickTheSonOfABitch "Reckon the son of a bitch had it coming."]] ]]



** General Benjamin Butler. He is despised for his nasty occupation of New Orleans, where he said any woman who criticizes the presence of the Union army should be considered nothing more than a whore. His presence at the peace talks is considered an insult, and at the opening to the negotiations he mocks Judah Benjamin for being a Jew. This is later revealed to be little more than a ploy to gain an advantage in the negotiations, he is still a bit of a jerkass though...

to:

** General Benjamin Butler. He is despised for his nasty occupation of New Orleans, where he said any woman who criticizes the presence of the Union army should be considered nothing more than a whore. His presence at the peace talks is considered an insult, and at the opening to the negotiations he mocks Judah Benjamin for being a Jew. This is later revealed to be little more than a ploy to gain an advantage in the negotiations, he is still a bit of a jerkass though...Jew solely for negotiating advantage.



* [[NoHeroToHisValet No Hero To His Wife]]: Lee's wife does believe him a national hero, but is also understandably disillusioned with how little he can be present for her and their family, with the duty of serving the nation always foremost on his mind.

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* [[NoHeroToHisValet No Hero To His Wife]]: NoHeroToHisValet: Lee's wife does believe him a national hero, but is also understandably disillusioned with how little he can be present for her and their family, with the duty of serving the nation always foremost on his mind.



* RidiculousExchangeRates: The Confederates are befuddled by the Rivington men selling their AK-47s for 50 Confederate dollars, given the currency's complete worthlessness. They also buy merchandise and pay Confederate soldiers with gold, which is worth far more than the face value of the currency/pay vouchers. [[spoiler:Although it's never stated in the book, it is possible that the Rivington men were transporting the Confederate money to the future and selling the pristine banknotes to collectors, thus making a profit.]]

to:

* RidiculousExchangeRates: The Confederates are befuddled by the Rivington men selling their AK-47s for 50 Confederate dollars, given the currency's complete worthlessness. They also buy merchandise and pay Confederate soldiers with gold, which is worth far more than the face value of the currency/pay vouchers. [[spoiler:Although it's never stated in the book, it is possible that the Rivington men were transporting the Confederate money to the future and selling the pristine banknotes to collectors, thus making a profit.]]



* SchizoTech: ''Literature/TheGunsOfTheSouth'' gets this on purpose.

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* SchizoTech: ''Literature/TheGunsOfTheSouth'' gets this on purpose.More elements of future technology are introduced throughout the book, sometimes quietly slipping into Confederate society and sometimes being glaringly out of place.
* ScienceAtTheSpeedOfPlot: Averted and {{lampshaded}}. When Colonel Gorgas states his disappointment at not being able to figure out smokeless powder, General Lee bluntly states that TheSmartGuy having the AppliedPhlebotinum rejiggered and ready ''exactly'' when TheHero needs it is something that [[ThisIsReality only happens in stories]], and that he does not share Gorgas' disappointment in any way.



** When Lee talks to Lincoln, he says that he couldn't go against his home state of Virginia. Lincoln chuckles that Lee acts as if that explains everything and Lee is confused as, from his viewpoint, it does.



** The rest of the world condemns the Confederacy for slavery and view all of their other lofty and philosophical claims to fall by the wayside of this singular horror. AT several times they point out that the Confederacy's proud claims are false within their own borders.
** To be fair, when reading the various books brought back from the future, Lee and the other Confederate leaders do begin to finally understand how and why future generations look back at slavery as a horror.
** When Lee talks to Lincoln, he says that he couldn't go against his home state of Virginia. Lincoln chuckles that Lee acts as if that explains everything and Lee is confused as, from his viewpoint, it does.
* SmartBall: When Lee gets a telegraph message mentioning Henry Pleasants, the name sounds familiar and he goes to ''The Picture History of the Civil War''; after realizing that Pleasants executed a similar plan in the original timeline, he orders General Forrest not to use Pleasants' name in any further communications, fearing that the Rivington men may be tapping the lines and might catch on to the Confederates' plan.

to:

** The rest of the world condemns the Confederacy for slavery and view all of their other lofty and philosophical claims to fall by the wayside of this singular horror. AT At several times they point out that the Confederacy's proud claims are false within their own borders.
** To be fair, when reading the various books brought back from the future, Lee and the other Confederate leaders do begin to finally understand how and why future generations look back at slavery as a horror.
** When Lee talks to Lincoln, he says that he couldn't go against his home state of Virginia. Lincoln chuckles that Lee acts as if that explains everything and Lee is confused as, from his viewpoint, it does.
* SmartBall: When Lee gets a telegraph message mentioning Henry Pleasants, the name sounds familiar and he goes to ''The Picture History of the Civil War''; after realizing that Pleasants executed a similar plan in the original timeline, he orders General Forrest not to use Pleasants' name in any further communications, fearing that the Rivington men may be tapping the lines and might catch on to the Confederates' plan.
borders.



* SuspiciouslySpecificDenial: The Notahilton.

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* SuspiciouslySpecificDenial: The Notahilton.Notahilton (Not A Hilton).



* ThisIsMyBoomstick: Played straight, almost to the point of {{deconstruction}}.

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* ThisIsMyBoomstick: Played straight, almost Deconstructed. The AWB present many future devices to the point Confederates, but until explanations start coming out much of {{deconstruction}}.it is accepted as simply an advanced part of their own world. It is not until Rhoodie explicitly states that he is from the future that Lee even begins to suspect such an event.



* TimeTravel: Duh. Again.

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* TimeTravel: Duh. Again.The time machine which the AWB possess can go backwards and forwards exactly 150 years.



* WhatCouldHaveBeen:[[invoked]]
** Along with being the premise of the novel itself, it is actually '''meta'''-[[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in the first chapter by the characters themselves:
---> "Pity they couldn't have come a year ago," Walter Taylor said. "Think what we might have done with those rifles at Chancellorsville, or up in Pennsylvania."
---> "I have had that thought myself a fair number of times the last few days, Major," Lee said. "What's past is past, though, and cannot be changed."
** This is something of a RunningGag with Turtledove; when Lee and Lincoln run into each other in 1865, Lincoln says he might write a book about how things would have been better if Lee and the South hadn't won.
** An acknowledged moment occurs when Lee reads [[spoiler: the ''Picture History of the Civil War'' and sees that in the original timeline, Lincoln was killed on Good Friday of 1865]]; Lee shudders when he remembers that he spoke to Lincoln on that day.




It [[AvertedTrope averts]]:
* AKA47: Averted. The rifles are specifically referred to as the AK-47 and their care and maintenance is based on the real rifle. All other real-life guns that make an appearance are also given their proper names by the Rivington men.
* BottomlessMagazines: The soldiers are carefully instructed that full-auto is actually mostly useless except in ''extreme'' circumstances -- it's the ability to fire single shots without stopping to reload that is their primary advantage.
* ChristianityIsCatholic: Caudell is a Baptist, and the two ministers shown are Baptist and Episcopalian. Not surprising as it's set in the South, which has been dominated by Protestantism from the beginning.
* EasyLogistics: The difficulties of supplying an army in the field come up a number of times, though the AWB are tripped up by this a little - they have a huge stock of AK-47s and ammunition ready to supply to the Confederacy, but weren't expecting them to be interested in their field rations.
** This is also a reason for concern in the end of the novel. Even with the new technological boon the CSA has gained, the fact that the North has used its massive industry to start mass producing functional copies of the AK has the characters fear that said advantage might not be enough.
* MagicFromTechnology: The AK-47s are never treated as magic, simply as weapons of amazing quality whose appearance makes no sense. Neither are [=MREs=] and instant coffee. The Confederates are well acquainted with the desiccated vegetables the Federals have, they just didn't know anyone was preparing whole meals or coffee that way. Even given a bit of a [[LampshadeHanging lampshade]], when Lee comments on the "desiccated stew" he is offered, and notes that Rhoodie seems disappointed that he isn't more surprised.
** The Confederates become accustomed so quickly to their marvelous new rifles, indeed, that Mollie Bean is soon as readily cussing out a refractory AK-47 that she's trying to disassemble as she might curse a Springfield that she was having difficulty cleaning. Nate Caudell himself is actually a good deal more astonished by Bennie Lang's body armor, as he is well aware that any iron plate strong enough to stop a rifle bullet would be far too heavy for a man to wear.
* {{Technobabble}}: Nobody has to explain one bit of the science behind the machine, since it was stolen from who-knows-how-far into the future in the first place, and all they could do was try and work the controls.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen:[[invoked]]
** Along with being the premise of the novel itself, it is actually '''meta'''-[[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in the first chapter by the characters themselves:
---> "Pity they couldn't have come a year ago," Walter Taylor said. "Think what we might have done with those rifles at Chancellorsville, or up in Pennsylvania."
---> "I have had that thought myself a fair number of times the last few days, Major," Lee said. "What's past is past, though, and cannot be changed."
** This is something of a RunningGag with Turtledove; when Lee and Lincoln run into each other in 1865, Lincoln says he might write a book about how things would have been better if Lee and the South hadn't won.
** An acknowledged moment occurs when Lee reads [[spoiler: the ''Picture History of the Civil War'' and sees that in the original timeline, Lincoln was killed on Good Friday of 1865]]; Lee shudders when he remembers that he spoke to Lincoln on that day (in a scene depicted earlier in the novel).
* ScienceAtTheSpeedOfPlot: When Colonel Gorgas states his disappointment at not being able to figure out smokeless powder, General Lee bluntly states that TheSmartGuy having the AppliedPhlebotinum rejiggered and ready ''exactly'' when TheHero needs it is something that [[ThisIsReality only happens in stories]], and that he does not share Gorgas' disappointment in any way.
7th May '16 9:39:38 AM pwiegle
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* RidiculousExchangeRates: The Confederates are befuddled by the Rivington men selling their AK-47s for 50 Confederate dollars, given the currency's complete worthlessness.

to:

* RidiculousExchangeRates: The Confederates are befuddled by the Rivington men selling their AK-47s for 50 Confederate dollars, given the currency's complete worthlessness. They also buy merchandise and pay Confederate soldiers with gold, which is worth far more than the face value of the currency/pay vouchers. [[spoiler:Although it's never stated in the book, it is possible that the Rivington men were transporting the Confederate money to the future and selling the pristine banknotes to collectors, thus making a profit.]]
13th Apr '16 3:01:05 AM LinTaylor
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Added DiffLines:

* SmartBall: When Lee gets a telegraph message mentioning Henry Pleasants, the name sounds familiar and he goes to ''The Picture History of the Civil War''; after realizing that Pleasants executed a similar plan in the original timeline, he orders General Forrest not to use Pleasants' name in any further communications, fearing that the Rivington men may be tapping the lines and might catch on to the Confederates' plan.
13th Apr '16 2:56:57 AM LinTaylor
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* JerkassHasAPoint: Lee does agree with the Rhoodie on opposing interracial marriage.

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* JerkassHasAPoint: Lee does agree JerkassRealization: Though not a bad person by any stretch of the imagination, Nate Caudell grows out of the institutionalized racism present in much of the South by interacting with blacks. In particular, after teaching Henry Pleasants' laborers to do arithmetic (and seeing the Rhoodie man's honest passion to learn and better himself), he reflects on opposing interracial marriage.the fact that the man could be bought by someone less intelligent and mutters "I'll be damned if there's any justice in that."



* OverprotectiveDad: At one point Rhoodie tries to scare Lee by asking if he likes the idea of his daughters marrying a black man; Lee's unspoken response is that he's not too keen on the idea of his daughters marrying ''anyone''.



** Nathan Bedford Forrest's opinions and HeelFaceRevolvingDoor are rather close to his actual denouncing of the Klan in RealLife, after it went from a legally-organized political group to a terror organization.

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** Nathan Bedford Forrest's opinions and HeelFaceRevolvingDoor are rather close to his actual denouncing and dissolution of the Klan Klan[[note]]at least in its original form[[/note]] in RealLife, after it went from a legally-organized political group to a terror organization.


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* VindicatedByHistory: InUniverse, the Confederates were convinced that while slavery was far from ideal, future generations would recognize that it was the best way for blacks and whites to co-exist. [[spoiler:''The Picture History of the Civil War'' proves them wrong, which helps President Lee pass a bill that leads to the end of slavery.]]
14th Mar '16 3:15:11 PM redandready45
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Added DiffLines:

* JerkassHasAPoint: Lee does agree with the Rhoodie on opposing interracial marriage.
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