History Literature / PastwatchTheRedemptionOfChristopherColumbus

26th Aug '16 9:44:37 PM billybobfred
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* UnspokenPlanGuarantee: {{Inverted|Trope}}. All three time travellers are given a backup plan for if the "moment" fails to last long enough and only one of them actually makes it. Naturally, then, the moment expands just fine and those particular plans end up unneeded.
29th May '15 6:33:33 PM rabidwolfe
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** Somewhat {{handwave}}d away when one character mentions in passing that every religious vision observed has been too subjective to tell what really happened.

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** Somewhat {{handwave}}d away when one character mentions in passing that every religious vision observed has been too subjective to tell what really happened.happened (this how they can tell [[spoiler:Columbus's vision of the Trinity was a fake]], because it's the only religious vision they've seen that was unambiguous).
24th Dec '14 5:35:38 AM ChronoLegion
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* {{Atlantis}}: Thanks to Pastwatch (and one obsessed meteorologist), it's eventually discovered that Atlantis is the name later given to an ancient civilization at the end of the last WesternAnimation/IceAge. It was the first civilization to organize into urban-like groups and set up (more or less) permanent structures in the Red Sea. The melting of the ice caps has resulted in the rising of the ocean levels and a destructive tidal wave wiping out the entire civilization. Only a man named Naog, foreseeing this outcome, builds a sturdy wooden boat, just big enough to hold his family and the families of his slaves. After making it to shore, he becomes a shepherd, telling the story of his lost homeland to all who would listen. He advocated two things: slavery (as a replacement of human sacrifice) and a nomadic lifestyle (believing God was against cities). It wasn't until Babylon that large cities were again attempted. What all this means is that Noah was from Atlantis.

to:

* {{Atlantis}}: Thanks to Pastwatch (and one obsessed meteorologist), it's eventually discovered that Atlantis is the name later given to an ancient civilization at the end of the last WesternAnimation/IceAge.Ice Age. It was the first civilization to organize into urban-like groups and set up (more or less) permanent structures in the Red Sea. The melting of the ice caps has resulted in the rising of the ocean levels and a destructive tidal wave wiping out the entire civilization. Only a man named Naog, foreseeing this outcome, builds a sturdy wooden boat, just big enough to hold his family and the families of his slaves. After making it to shore, he becomes a shepherd, telling the story of his lost homeland to all who would listen. He advocated two things: slavery (as a replacement of human sacrifice) and a nomadic lifestyle (believing God was against cities). It wasn't until Babylon that large cities were again attempted. What all this means is that Noah was from Atlantis.
23rd Dec '14 5:29:22 PM nombretomado
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* {{Atlantis}}: Thanks to Pastwatch (and one obsessed meteorologist), it's eventually discovered that Atlantis is the name later given to an ancient civilization at the end of the last IceAge. It was the first civilization to organize into urban-like groups and set up (more or less) permanent structures in the Red Sea. The melting of the ice caps has resulted in the rising of the ocean levels and a destructive tidal wave wiping out the entire civilization. Only a man named Naog, foreseeing this outcome, builds a sturdy wooden boat, just big enough to hold his family and the families of his slaves. After making it to shore, he becomes a shepherd, telling the story of his lost homeland to all who would listen. He advocated two things: slavery (as a replacement of human sacrifice) and a nomadic lifestyle (believing God was against cities). It wasn't until Babylon that large cities were again attempted. What all this means is that Noah was from Atlantis.

to:

* {{Atlantis}}: Thanks to Pastwatch (and one obsessed meteorologist), it's eventually discovered that Atlantis is the name later given to an ancient civilization at the end of the last IceAge.WesternAnimation/IceAge. It was the first civilization to organize into urban-like groups and set up (more or less) permanent structures in the Red Sea. The melting of the ice caps has resulted in the rising of the ocean levels and a destructive tidal wave wiping out the entire civilization. Only a man named Naog, foreseeing this outcome, builds a sturdy wooden boat, just big enough to hold his family and the families of his slaves. After making it to shore, he becomes a shepherd, telling the story of his lost homeland to all who would listen. He advocated two things: slavery (as a replacement of human sacrifice) and a nomadic lifestyle (believing God was against cities). It wasn't until Babylon that large cities were again attempted. What all this means is that Noah was from Atlantis.
31st Oct '14 9:21:03 PM Fireblood
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* ApathyKilledTheCat: With a past viewing device available, it seems likely that the first order of business would be to investigate every major religion, either confirming or debunking the accounts in each book of scripture. There's no mention made of this, and there are still explicitly Christians and Muslims around in this future. (This despite the fact that one character became famous by discovering the historical event that became the basis for the Great Flood).

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* ApathyKilledTheCat: With a past viewing device available, it seems likely that the first order of business would be to investigate every major religion, either confirming or debunking the accounts in each book of scripture. There's no mention made of this, and there are still explicitly Christians and Muslims around in this future. (This future (this despite the fact that one character became famous by discovering the historical event that became the basis for the Great Flood).



** Somewhat handwaved away when one character mentions in passing that every religious vision observed has been too subjective to tell what really happened.
* {{Atlantis}}: Thanks to Pastwatch (and one obsessed meteorologist), it's eventually discovered that Atlantis is the name later given to an ancient civilization at the end of the last IceAge. It was the first civilization to organize into urban-like groups and set up (more or less) permanent structures in the Red Sea. The melting of the ice caps has resulted in the rising of the ocean levels and a destructive tidal wave wiping out the entire civilization. Only a man named Naog, foreseeing this outcome, builds a sturdy wooden boat, just big enough to hold his family and the families of his slaves. After making it to shore, he becomes a shepherd, telling the story of his lost homeland to all who would listen. He advocated two things: slavery (as replacement of human sacrifice) and a nomadic lifestyle (believing God was against cities). It wasn't until Babylon that large cities were again attempted. What all this means is that Noah was from Atlantis.

to:

** Somewhat handwaved {{handwave}}d away when one character mentions in passing that every religious vision observed has been too subjective to tell what really happened.
* {{Atlantis}}: Thanks to Pastwatch (and one obsessed meteorologist), it's eventually discovered that Atlantis is the name later given to an ancient civilization at the end of the last IceAge. It was the first civilization to organize into urban-like groups and set up (more or less) permanent structures in the Red Sea. The melting of the ice caps has resulted in the rising of the ocean levels and a destructive tidal wave wiping out the entire civilization. Only a man named Naog, foreseeing this outcome, builds a sturdy wooden boat, just big enough to hold his family and the families of his slaves. After making it to shore, he becomes a shepherd, telling the story of his lost homeland to all who would listen. He advocated two things: slavery (as a replacement of human sacrifice) and a nomadic lifestyle (believing God was against cities). It wasn't until Babylon that large cities were again attempted. What all this means is that Noah was from Atlantis.



* FlingALightIntoTheFuture: Knowing that people of the 15th century wouldn't able to understand, they left their history as a sealed record that would be found only when society had the technology to detect it.

to:

* FlingALightIntoTheFuture: Knowing that people of the 15th century wouldn't be able to understand, they left their history as a sealed record that would be found only when society had the technology to detect it.



* HitlersTimeTravelExemptionAct: Averted. It turns out it is possible to change the past, but we can only speculate whether previous iterations were better or worse than our own timeline.

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* HitlersTimeTravelExemptionAct: Averted.{{Averted}}. It turns out it is possible to change the past, but we can only speculate whether previous iterations were better or worse than our own timeline.



* NobleSavage: Played straight and averted. The characters watch the slaughter and plunder of peaceful American tribes by European invaders. This is initially seen a simple good vs. evil conquest, but they later realize that, left to themselves, the post-Aztec kingdoms would have created an even worse empire based on conquest and human sacrifice. They seek to find a way to [[TakeAThirdOption bring the cultures together and prevent their worst excesses]].

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* NobleSavage: Played straight {{Played straight}} and averted. The characters watch the slaughter and plunder of peaceful American tribes by European invaders. This is initially seen a simple good vs. evil conquest, but they later realize that, left to themselves, the post-Aztec kingdoms would have created an even worse empire based on conquest and human sacrifice. They seek to find a way to [[TakeAThirdOption bring the cultures together and prevent their worst excesses]].



** Notably, not just the Europeans--the native Taino and Zapotec tribes the protagonists interact with have plenty of their own problems with sexism and racism to fix too.

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** Notably, not just the Europeans--the Europeans-the native Taino and Zapotec tribes the protagonists interact with have plenty of their own problems with sexism and racism to fix too.



** There is some variety -- basically, of the events happening before the time travellers act, those based more-or-less on random chance get a "re-roll" (sailors pick random girls to sleep with), while those based on conscious and informed decision proceed roughly the same way (a ship's captain's concerns stay the same and so does the ship's course).

to:

** There is some variety -- basically, variety-basically, of the events happening before the time travellers travelers act, those based more-or-less on random chance get a "re-roll" (sailors pick random girls to sleep with), while those based on conscious and informed decision proceed roughly the same way (a ship's captain's concerns stay the same and so does the ship's course).
13th Feb '14 8:20:11 PM rabidwolfe
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** Somewhat handwaved away when one character mentions in passing that every religious vision observed has been too subjective to tell what really happened.
29th Sep '13 12:12:13 PM ChronoLegion
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** Even more, one of the people is a slave from another village. Hunahpu demands that she be freed and asks her to take one of the needles, just like the others. She takes the needle from his penis and sticks it through her tongue. The others are shocked... but not for the same reason as a modern-day person would be. In that culture, this is something only a wife would do, and for a slave to do that to a [[spoiler:messenger of the gods]] would be extremely shocking. Later, [[spoiler:he ends up marrying her]].
29th Sep '13 10:34:52 AM slvstrChung
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* ModernMayincatecEmpire: The Tlaxcala apparently took over the world in a previous iteration of the world's history. The people of that timeline [[spoiler:apparently considered it such a catastrophe in the long run, they changed history (and prevented themselves from ever existing) to avoid it.]] [[spoiler:A more peaceful incarnation of this is the result of Diko, Hunahpu, and Kemal's work in changing the past.]]
* MortonsFork: What spurs the decision to change the past even though it'll erase their own timeline and existence is the fact that things have gotten to the point where no matter what is done (other than changing the past) to remedy the situation, an even ''worse'' apocalyptic scenario than the one they've already experienced will happen, the human population will be reduced to under 10 million, and humanity will be plunged back into the Stone Ages with little hope of ever rising to civilization ever again.

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* ModernMayincatecEmpire: The Tlaxcala apparently took over the world in a previous iteration of the world's history. The people of that timeline [[spoiler:apparently considered it such a catastrophe in the long run, they changed history (and prevented themselves from ever existing) to avoid it.it, resulting in ''our'' timeline.]] [[spoiler:A [[spoiler:Ironically, the CosmicRetcon created by our timeline ''restores'' this trope, but in a more peaceful incarnation of this is as the result of Diko, Hunahpu, and Kemal's work in changing the past.]]
* MortonsFork: What spurs the decision to change the past even though it'll erase their own our timeline and existence is the fact that things have gotten [[ApocalypseHow Earth is doomed]] to the point where no matter what is done (other than changing the past) to remedy the situation, an even ''worse'' apocalyptic scenario than the one they've already experienced will happen, the experienced. The human population will be reduced to under 10 million, and humanity will be plunged back into the Stone Ages with little hope of ever rising to civilization ever again.
6th Jul '13 1:43:30 PM Tuckerscreator
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** Even the Mayan time traveler is stated to be a foot taller than the Mayans of that period.
*** This only serves to help him to pretend to be a messenger from Xibalba (the underworld).

to:

** Even the Mayan time traveler is stated to be a foot taller than the Mayans of that period.
***
period. This only serves to help him to pretend to be a messenger from Xibalba (the underworld).
18th Jan '13 10:26:25 AM ChronoLegion
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** This is also why the scientists painstakingly work to make sure that all three get sent back. If even one of them is sent back a second before the others, then the other won't be there in the already-altered future to be sent back. This means that all the distances must be measured down to microscopic measurements, and all wires cut to exactly the same lengths. Even in the end, the lead scientist states that it all comes down to chance and his hope that the universe will expand the "moment" to allow for all three to make it through.
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Literature.PastwatchTheRedemptionOfChristopherColumbus