History Headscratchers / VforVendetta

** You're mostly right, but a couple loosely related points I'd like to finish with. Norsefire Britian isn't just a generic authoritarian regime; its explicitly fascist and both aethestically and ideologically takes the most cues from Nazi Germany, who's entire ideology was based around racial struggle; no perceived struggle (war or otherwise), no reason to back them. As for Norsefire's propaganda: in the comics, Prothero explicitly states they killed all the blacks. Whether or not that's the party's official position or somehow a secret is unknown (it being an OpenSecret, like the holocaust was in Germany, though, seems most likely). Not knowing whether or not Britain is the only country left in the world in the comic makes saying whether or not Norsefire could scare people about foreigners difficult; there's no mention of other countries, but if England could somehow survive a nuclear war, theoretically others could as well. But even then, "they could come here and cause trouble" is far less powerful a message than "they're already here and causing trouble." False Flag attacks and framing innocent people as gay or Muslim as you suggest would likely be a nessecary move by Norsefire, and is canon in the film, but is somewhat of a VoodooShark. There not having been any notable resistance to Norsefire since they took power is the strong implication as well, because there's no mention of other resistance groups (no one speculates what groups V might be aligned with, none come out of the woodwork when V shakes things up), and the Fingermen seem happy to patrol the streets catching petty curfew violators and prostitutes, and are framed as an bureucracy made decadent and incompetent by their perceived security, which is how V constantly outsmarts them. Overall, Norsefire's position at the start of the story as not widely popular, but functioning is ''feasible'' but [[ItJustBugsMe seems strange that an anarchist like Moore would]] depict fascism as having such a clear endgame and seemingly able to exist indefinitely without the intervention of a MagnificentBastard with superpowers (motivated by something they did years ago, not atrocities they continuously commit).

** Perhaps a lot of the laughing is out of shock. Given how oppressive the state is, it's unlikely any of these people have even seen such risque humor on network TV. So it's a sort of in universe SeinfeldIsUnfunny; it's not that funny to us, because we're used to people taking the piss out of government leaders. But this is the first time a lot of them are seeing that kind of comedy - so a lot of the laughs could be of an "I can't believe they're doing this" sort.

** They definitely killed Asian people, when the Fingermen extrajudically shoot someone a disgruntled man says they shot her "like she was a p*ki". I can't imagine things being much better for Eastern Europeans- even today they're usually looked down upon by the worst aspects of British society. What happened to the Irish, though, is a really pertinent question and I'm surprised the story doesn't touch upon it at all. A ''lot'' of the "Anglo-Saxon" population is going to have Irish and Scottish ancestry at some point so I'm surprised we never saw one of those blood-quantum chart things in the background.

*** I just think that fascism is (unfortunately!) more adaptable than you suggest. Yes, fascism requires some sort of bogeyman, but once the fascists are in power they can switch boogeymen whenever they damn well please. I'm coming at this from the Orwellian perpsective, where the Party makes enemies with Eurasia and friends with Eastasia, then suddenly switches them around and famously claims "We have always been at war with Eastasia". If the Nazis had succeeded in killing all the Jews within reach, I don't think the party would have suffered much for lack of a bogeyman; they would have simply found new bogeymen to target. They'd come up with ''any'' excuse to justify their power. That's how fascism works, isn't it? Anyway, it's true that there's a strong implication that there wasn't any strong resistance to Norsefire before V came along, and yes the regime appears to be indefinitely stable. But that's kindof realistic, isn't it? Fascist regimes exist along a spectrum of stable to unstable; Norsefire is just one of the more stable examples. As far as I know, the instability in the Nazi party came about because the Allies were hammering them from all sides (and rightly so). But in cases where there isn't an external influence to bring you down, again, China is a great example of a dictatorial regime that currently appears to be quite stable. Protests are small and outspoken criticism (within the country's territory) is rare. I guess the difference with Norsefire is that at the start of the story there appears to be ''exactly zero resistance'' aside from V, right up until the end where suddenly ''everyone'' revolts. A more realistic story would have ''some'' resistance at the start, a ''few'' protests at least, a ''few'' outspoken critics who are currently on the run as the Fingermen search for them. Then you could have plotlines about V trying to gain various allies, dealing with intra-revolution politics when people disagree about tactics and goals and whatnot...but I think Moore wanted to tell a simpler story than that. It's at this point that ''V for Vendetta'' clearly bleeds over into the superhero genre, because "Let The Amazing Man In the Cool Costume Solve All The Problems Himself" is very much a superhero trope.

*** I just think that fascism is (unfortunately!) more adaptable than you suggest. Yes, fascism requires some sort of bogeyman, but once the fascists are in power they can switch boogeymen whenever they damn well please. I'm coming at this from the Orwellian perpsective, where the Party makes enemies with Eurasia and friends with EastAsia, then suddenly switches them around and famously claims "We have always been at war with EastAsia". If the Nazis had succeeded in killing all the Jews within reach, I don't think the party would have suffered much for lack of a bogeyman; they would have simply found new bogeymen to target. They'd come up with ''any'' excuse to justify their power. That's how fascism works, isn't it? Anyway, it's true that there's a strong implication that there wasn't any strong resistance to Norsefire before V came along, and yes the regime appears to be indefinitely stable. But that's kindof realistic, isn't it? Fascist regimes exist along a spectrum of stable to unstable; Norsefire is just one of the more stable examples. As far as I know, the instability in the Nazi party came about because the Allies were hammering them from all sides (and rightly so). But in cases where there isn't an external influence to bring you down, again, China is a great example of a dictatorial regime that currently appears to be quite stable. Protests are small and outspoken criticism (within the country's territory) is rare. I guess the difference with Norsefire is that at the start of the story there appears to be ''exactly zero resistance'' aside from V, right up until the end where suddenly ''everyone'' revolts. A more realistic story would have ''some'' resistance at the start, a ''few'' protests at least, a ''few'' outspoken critics who are currently on the run as the Fingermen search for them. Then you could have plotlines about V trying to gain various allies, dealing with intra-revolution politics when people disagree about tactics and goals and whatnot...but I think Moore wanted to tell a simpler story than that. It's at this point that ''V for Vendetta'' clearly bleeds over into the superhero genre, because "Let The Amazing Man In the Cool Costume Solve All The Problems Himself" is very much a superhero trope.

*** Why aren't they revolting right now? Simple: Because they're not convinced that a revolt would accomplish anything. What if you risk your life to overthrow the current government only to see it replaced by a SuspiciouslySimilarSubstitute? What if your fellow citizens turn out to be fans of some new dictator? They you would have accomplished nothing! Revolts are easier in places where everybody knows that everybody else is on board with democracy and it's only recent circumstances that have allowed the dictator to take charge (see: Vichy France). But it's much harder in places that have ''never'' been democratic, leaving everybody unsure if everybody else is actually pro-democracy or not, and likewise unsure over the details of how the democracy would work in practice.

** It's pretty likely also that, since the assumption is that everything aired is government-approved (and that it's been that way for the last twenty years or so)then since this show obviously is to then it's okay to laugh at the jokes presented there. Either that or that the people are meant to laugh at it (it is a comedy sketch), although the former is more likely for that point in the film/current events.

** The gays, blacks and Muslims are ''not'' "very obviously all dead". Where did you get that idea? It could easily be that half of them are dead and the other half are still alive. Nazi Germany managed to maintain rabid antisemitism even though maybe 1% of its population was Jewish. There was no internal crisis where the S.S. worried that its funding might get cut because they ran out of Jews. And the world being "far too busy with disease, civil war, or being a radioactive crater to bother England" doesn't track either. Nobody was "bothering" Germany in 1940; in fact there was a notable campaign of appeasement! But that didn't stop Hitler from whipping up a frenzy and declaring war on a dozen countries in the name of "national glory" or whatever. Besides, if every other country is suffering from disease or civil war, it's ''extremely easy'' to whip up fears about how foreigners are supposedly going to come ''here'' and bring all their diseases and civil wars with them! If every other country is desperate, isn't there a chance that they'll try to invade us and take our stuff, in hopes of fixing their own problems? The fascist propaganda writes itself!

** The gays, blacks and Muslims are ''not'' "very obviously all dead". Where did you get that idea? It could easily be that half of them are dead and the other half are still alive. Nazi Germany managed to maintain rabid antisemitism even though maybe 1% of its population was Jewish. There was no internal crisis where the S.S. worried that its funding might get cut because they ran out of Jews. And the world being "far too busy with disease, civil war, or being a radioactive crater to bother England" doesn't track either. Nobody was "bothering" Germany in 1940; in fact there was a notable campaign of appeasement! But that didn't stop Hitler from whipping up a frenzy and declaring war on a dozen countries in the name of "national glory" or whatever. Besides, if every other country is suffering from disease or civil war, it's ''extremely easy'' to whip up fears about how foreigner are supposedly going to come ''here'' and bring all their diseases and civil wars with them! If every other country is desperate, isn't there a chance that they'll try to invade us and take our stuff, in hopes of fixing their own problems? The fascist propaganda writes itself!

Fascism requires an [[PaperTiger enemy/boogeyman present in people’s minds]] (Communism, a Jewish cabal, terrorists, black people etc) to justify it’s militarism and oppression of he people. And when the fascists defeat one “other” they have to find a new one, or stop being fascist (see Innuendo Studio’s video on White Fascism for more on this point or Kay and Skittles video on The Funtion of Fascism) How is Norsefire still able to keep people tolerant of their own oppression and their army loyal when all the blacks, muslims and gays very obviously all dead, and every other country far too busy with disease, civil war, or being a radioactive crater to bother England? The implication in the film at least is that they’re still pretending muslim terrorists are a threat (possibly via more [[FalseFlagOperation False Flag attacks]] but are the Fingermen not worried about getting their funding cut and the army questioning beating down their own people now that they never fight any of these supposed external threats? Do their comic counterparts really have that much confidence in [[StylisticSuck Storm Saxon serials,]] that posit Britian will get taken over by an extinct demographic to keep their people in line?

** It's not just that he considers himself monstrous. V is an Ubermensch, and he wants a new world to rise from Norsefire's shadow, but he also DOESN'T want this new world to be based, defined or dependant on ''him''. Likely because he doesn't want to repeat Jesus' mistake, trying to guide people and then having people run away with his beliefs and corrupt them to try and lord over others, or be made into a leader and [[HeWhoFightsMonsters then become as corrupt and despotic as Sutler]]. Like he tells Evy, the new world needs to be shaped by new people, and the choices must be their own, without any influence. [[FridgeBrilliance Which fits the True Anarchy concept, of society ruling itself without the need of leaders or religions to control what they view as right or wrong]]. Movie!V is still an anarchist, only a more subtle one than Comic!V.
*** but he also DOESN'T want this new world to be based, defined or dependant on ''him''.- If that was true, he shouldn't have sent out all of those masks or done public broadcasts, or groomed Evey to be his successor etc. People will absolutely see him as an Anarchist Jesus, in all likelihood.

** He stood there and got shot in order to deplete their bullets so he could kill them all while they were reloading. He was actually quite explicit about it. As for why he chose that method instead of rushing them immediately, I can think of two reasons. First, he might be armored heavily in the front but not in the back or sides. (Perhaps the armor is made of a rare material and he couldn't find enough of it.) If he rushes the soldiers while they still have ammo, there's every chance that someone will get behind him and shoot him in a spot that isn't armored. But if he tempts them into wasting their ammo on the armored side, he can survive and counterattack (which is exactly what happens). Secondly, psychology. V wants Creedy to know his death his coming. He wants the guy to watch in horror as V survives an assault and then takes out the soldiers one by one, before finally choking him to death with his own two hands. V wants Creedy to feel ''fear'' before he dies. Responding to the above, I think he wanted to survive and have a life with Evey, but he couldn't find a way to do it. Even using his best armor, he still got fatally wounded in the end. But once he knew he was dying, he accepted it as a necessary sacrifice, and he was glad to lay down his burdens, though he was also sad to leave Evey behind.