History Headscratchers / Tsukihime

20th Jan '16 6:00:51 PM cillianflood
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* So does Kohaku wear contact lenses? At first I'd guessed that they swapped places during that one scene where they did but half way through I changed my mind because she still had Hisu's eye colour. You'd think they would have done a slight colour edit there since for the player (or at least me) the swap was pretty obvious. Not even a full orange colour edit but maybe an off blue implying she does have contact lenses instead of literally using Hisu's sprite. I guess it's not impossible she has access to contact lenses that are 100% identical to Hisu's natural eye colour but it still seems odd...unless Hisu is wearing coloured contact lenses the whole time for some reason and Kohaku just stole a pair.
19th Jan '16 3:52:35 PM cillianflood
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** Why is his mind more broken on the Near Side Routes? Seems he has less interference with his routine in those routes since Nero takes the heat off for a few days. If anything he seems the most discoordinated in Hisu's route where he doesn't even recognise Shiki (and is probably getting an extra dosage of Kohaku's meddling).
29th Dec '15 10:28:29 PM Willbyr
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*** Hence, "just screwed up" is a valid explanation. If she wins, she asks why he didn't use the eyes, since they would have helped him win. If she loses, she berates herself for not working fast enough. Sion's not infallible, Shiki's not a pushover, and the {{Nasuverse}} canon basically runs on large-scale quantum mechanics.

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*** Hence, "just screwed up" is a valid explanation. If she wins, she asks why he didn't use the eyes, since they would have helped him win. If she loses, she berates herself for not working fast enough. Sion's not infallible, Shiki's not a pushover, and the {{Nasuverse}} Franchise/{{Nasuverse}} canon basically runs on large-scale quantum mechanics.
18th Dec '15 5:37:16 PM cillianflood
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*** Perhaps since Roa's power comes from Arcueid and Ciel's power comes from Roa she can just sense Ciel and innately knows about her.
24th Jul '15 1:42:21 PM nombretomado
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* Even if they're bullshitting us as to the contents, why would that mean her route wouldn't get released? We already know the route has changed a lot from what Nasu was originally planning. It certainly wouldn't reverse causality and make MeltyBlood stop existing just because it no longer follows a released route perfectly.
** The content length doesn't really fit. For all that information to be revealed requires a longer time frame than the other routes got. That's not even really taking into account that it's ''Satsuki's'' route, not theirs. So the focus still ought to be on her, even if she doesn't live through it or whatever. If they want to release a Satsuki route in the remake that includes everything that Kagetsu Tohya or MeltyBlood are based on then it will either be far longer than the other routes or they'll have to at least partially rewrite the other routes to make them closer. Also, in a narrative sense, is it Far Side or Near Side? Or does it have a special Middle Side? Maybe I think too much about actual writing and how it fits together, but it just doesn't seem like a Satsuki route can ''fit'' without feeling like it's rushed or that it skips over too many details. Hell, apart from any romance angle, how does she become the 10th Dead Apostle? Is her Reality Marble going to be mentioned? And then it needs to include at least part of the background material of Makihasa for the Far Side routes to make sense. Perhaps it will be released since it'd be a real waste not to, but it seems like if it is it wouldn't be released with the Tsukihime remake so much as in something like the Manga or a different game altogether. It's not a 'Satsuki route' if they do that so much as merely writing an entirely new story that happens to be a prequel to Kagetsu Tohya.
*** I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm asking why you think they'll release a prequel to MeltyBlood instead of Satsuki's game route. I have a little more confidence in Nasu's editor than to think that he'll try to cram in everything that's implied in the spinoff games, rather than write the thing and say "it's not directly related any more." Though really, pretty much everything non-Satsuki related implied in MeltyBlood is either standard Near Side stuff (Nero's appearance, Shiki's attraction to Arcueid and kohai relationship with Ciel, and the like) or can probably be explained in a Satsuki route.

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* Even if they're bullshitting us as to the contents, why would that mean her route wouldn't get released? We already know the route has changed a lot from what Nasu was originally planning. It certainly wouldn't reverse causality and make MeltyBlood VideoGame/MeltyBlood stop existing just because it no longer follows a released route perfectly.
** The content length doesn't really fit. For all that information to be revealed requires a longer time frame than the other routes got. That's not even really taking into account that it's ''Satsuki's'' route, not theirs. So the focus still ought to be on her, even if she doesn't live through it or whatever. If they want to release a Satsuki route in the remake that includes everything that Kagetsu Tohya or MeltyBlood VideoGame/MeltyBlood are based on then it will either be far longer than the other routes or they'll have to at least partially rewrite the other routes to make them closer. Also, in a narrative sense, is it Far Side or Near Side? Or does it have a special Middle Side? Maybe I think too much about actual writing and how it fits together, but it just doesn't seem like a Satsuki route can ''fit'' without feeling like it's rushed or that it skips over too many details. Hell, apart from any romance angle, how does she become the 10th Dead Apostle? Is her Reality Marble going to be mentioned? And then it needs to include at least part of the background material of Makihasa for the Far Side routes to make sense. Perhaps it will be released since it'd be a real waste not to, but it seems like if it is it wouldn't be released with the Tsukihime remake so much as in something like the Manga or a different game altogether. It's not a 'Satsuki route' if they do that so much as merely writing an entirely new story that happens to be a prequel to Kagetsu Tohya.
*** I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm asking why you think they'll release a prequel to MeltyBlood VideoGame/MeltyBlood instead of Satsuki's game route. I have a little more confidence in Nasu's editor than to think that he'll try to cram in everything that's implied in the spinoff games, rather than write the thing and say "it's not directly related any more." Though really, pretty much everything non-Satsuki related implied in MeltyBlood VideoGame/MeltyBlood is either standard Near Side stuff (Nero's appearance, Shiki's attraction to Arcueid and kohai relationship with Ciel, and the like) or can probably be explained in a Satsuki route.



* How does Shiki actually beat anyone in a fight ''without'' killing them? In MeltyBlood, he beats Sion specifically because his eyes are so unpredictable, and also defeats Ciel. Plus Akiha. Am I missing something? His eyes ''kill things'' or at least make unhealable wounds. If he's not cutting lines, he's just a knife fighter. And therefore predictable.

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* How does Shiki actually beat anyone in a fight ''without'' killing them? In MeltyBlood, VideoGame/MeltyBlood, he beats Sion specifically because his eyes are so unpredictable, and also defeats Ciel. Plus Akiha. Am I missing something? His eyes ''kill things'' or at least make unhealable wounds. If he's not cutting lines, he's just a knife fighter. And therefore predictable.



*** Apparently confirmed by MeltyBlood. Arcueid is [[spoiler:resurrected by Gaia after Roa kills her in Type-Earth form]]. You'd need to destroy the World to kill her (something Shiki has proven capable of, in localized areas).

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*** Apparently confirmed by MeltyBlood.VideoGame/MeltyBlood. Arcueid is [[spoiler:resurrected by Gaia after Roa kills her in Type-Earth form]]. You'd need to destroy the World to kill her (something Shiki has proven capable of, in localized areas).
25th Mar '15 7:54:58 PM nombretomado
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** Ciel ''didn't'' leave Japan, she left for the one Catholic church in Japan with a connection to the Burial Agency (...wait, wouldn't that be the [[FateStayNight Kotomine church]]?), to get a permit for Shiki to enter the Vatican. She ''does'' mention that she might be gone for several days, and that Shiki could last a couple of weeks safely in her room, so it probably just didn't take as long as she expected.

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** Ciel ''didn't'' leave Japan, she left for the one Catholic church in Japan with a connection to the Burial Agency (...wait, wouldn't that be the [[FateStayNight [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Kotomine church]]?), to get a permit for Shiki to enter the Vatican. She ''does'' mention that she might be gone for several days, and that Shiki could last a couple of weeks safely in her room, so it probably just didn't take as long as she expected.



*** "No modern weapon" and "super-powerful" wouldn't apply to Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, which is really what the argument is about. "Concepts of Death" are already an incredibly important plot point in Tsukihime, considering such things as Shiki being able to see object lines at all, not being able to kill Arcueid under specific circumstances, and Shiki's brain slowly ticking towards implosion because he's starting to understand ''everything'' Gaian (enough to see points of Death on people and things). Point being that ORT can be killed, it's just insanely difficult because he can't be [[OneHitKill wtfpwnzed]] by Satsujinki. Besides, Gaia being isolated is also a plot point with regards to [[FateStayNight Shirou's projection magic]].

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*** "No modern weapon" and "super-powerful" wouldn't apply to Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, which is really what the argument is about. "Concepts of Death" are already an incredibly important plot point in Tsukihime, considering such things as Shiki being able to see object lines at all, not being able to kill Arcueid under specific circumstances, and Shiki's brain slowly ticking towards implosion because he's starting to understand ''everything'' Gaian (enough to see points of Death on people and things). Point being that ORT can be killed, it's just insanely difficult because he can't be [[OneHitKill wtfpwnzed]] by Satsujinki. Besides, Gaia being isolated is also a plot point with regards to [[FateStayNight [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight Shirou's projection magic]].



*** Because SHIKI's "immortality" was weaker than Roa's own regeneration power? SHIKI's not immortal so much as ''incredibly'' hard to kill (he survives self-inflicted lethal wounds routinely, and was functioning just fine with only an upper body before Akiha ripped him apart), and all fusion does is match his life level to Shiki's. It may have only been due to the full moon, but Roa literally ''regenerated everything from his ankles up'' after Arcueid did something even more thorough to him. And who exactly has been saying that Roa would get Satsuki's reality marble? Of course he wouldn't; he wouldn't have Satsuki's personality and soul. He also doesn't ''need'' her reality marble, [[http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Michael_Roa_Valdamjong#Powers_and_Abilities he's got his own]]. Also, in Roa's own words, he valued Ciel as a host far more than SHIKI, because while Elesia certainly was a working-class human rather than his favored upper-crust, she also had a huge prana capacity similar to the original Roa...on the level of a [[FateStayNight servant spirit]]. Satsuki is supposed to be even ''stronger''.

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*** Because SHIKI's "immortality" was weaker than Roa's own regeneration power? SHIKI's not immortal so much as ''incredibly'' hard to kill (he survives self-inflicted lethal wounds routinely, and was functioning just fine with only an upper body before Akiha ripped him apart), and all fusion does is match his life level to Shiki's. It may have only been due to the full moon, but Roa literally ''regenerated everything from his ankles up'' after Arcueid did something even more thorough to him. And who exactly has been saying that Roa would get Satsuki's reality marble? Of course he wouldn't; he wouldn't have Satsuki's personality and soul. He also doesn't ''need'' her reality marble, [[http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Michael_Roa_Valdamjong#Powers_and_Abilities he's got his own]]. Also, in Roa's own words, he valued Ciel as a host far more than SHIKI, because while Elesia certainly was a working-class human rather than his favored upper-crust, she also had a huge prana capacity similar to the original Roa...on the level of a [[FateStayNight [[VisualNovel/FateStayNight servant spirit]]. Satsuki is supposed to be even ''stronger''.
8th Nov '14 1:38:24 PM 448inc
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**Because in Ciel's story after the hotel incident Shiki told Arcueid to never heal him again that way.


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** In one of Ciel-Sensei's lessons during the Akiha route Ciel and Roa hypothesize that the difference in appearance is due to SHIKI's mental condition, since his mind was so broken in the Near Side routes, there wasn't much left for Roa to possess, and ultimately he is more SHIKI than he is Roa.
21st Oct '14 7:21:57 PM shinpichu1
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* Is it ever explained why Roa/SHIKI's appearance differs between the Near and Far Side routes? It's the same body, even if the personalities are different, so why did his/their appearance change? Does it have anything to do with why Roa shows up covered in bandages in Arcueid's route?
15th Aug '13 8:21:22 PM Zearth
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* How did Nrvnqsr Chaos create a Soil of Genesis out of the dog to bind Shiki AFTER he'd stabbed its point? Shouldn't it have been reduced to useless biomass?

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* How did Nrvnqsr Chaos create a Soil of Genesis out of the dog to bind Shiki AFTER he'd stabbed its point? Shouldn't it have been reduced to useless biomass?biomass? Also, as a separate question; why could Arcueid heal Shiki with a portion of the recently slain Nrvnqsr's remains in her route, but not in Ciel's?
15th Aug '13 8:04:57 PM Zearth
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* How did Nrvnqsr Chaos create a Soil of Genesis out of the dog to bind Shiki AFTER he'd stabbed its point? Shouldn't it have been reduced to useless biomass?
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