History Headscratchers / Thor

27th Feb '16 11:01:46 AM nombretomado
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** I wouldn't bet on Jane playing a large role in ''Film/TheAvengers'' -- filming is just about done, and Natalie Portman isn't listed as being in it.

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** I wouldn't bet on Jane playing a large role in ''Film/TheAvengers'' ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'' -- filming is just about done, and Natalie Portman isn't listed as being in it.



** Maybe. In ''Film/TheAvengers'', the Helicarrier didn't stop when Thor dropped it. Depends on how it is measuring "movement." Cutting out a big slab of the earth it's sitting on would probably be fine, but I think an excavator would trigger the hammer's "Something is trying to move me, stop it," since it disturbs the earth so much.

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** Maybe. In ''Film/TheAvengers'', ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', the Helicarrier didn't stop when Thor dropped it. Depends on how it is measuring "movement." Cutting out a big slab of the earth it's sitting on would probably be fine, but I think an excavator would trigger the hammer's "Something is trying to move me, stop it," since it disturbs the earth so much.



* How old exactly ''is'' Thor? He does not seem to [[ReallySevenHundredYearsOld act his age]] at all. Loki says in ''Film/TheAvengers'' that humans ''think'' the Asgardians are immortal; but he then asks to test it (Implying it's either not true or maybe they honestly don't know if they're immortal or not). Odin speaks of his "father before him," implying that there ''have'' been previous generations of Asgardians that have come and gone; hence ''not'' immortal. Are they super long-lived (so much so Thor was old enough to fight during Viking times)? Does time pass differently in Asgard then it does in Midgard? Are there many generations of Odins and Thors and Lokis?

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* How old exactly ''is'' Thor? He does not seem to [[ReallySevenHundredYearsOld act his age]] at all. Loki says in ''Film/TheAvengers'' ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'' that humans ''think'' the Asgardians are immortal; but he then asks to test it (Implying it's either not true or maybe they honestly don't know if they're immortal or not). Odin speaks of his "father before him," implying that there ''have'' been previous generations of Asgardians that have come and gone; hence ''not'' immortal. Are they super long-lived (so much so Thor was old enough to fight during Viking times)? Does time pass differently in Asgard then it does in Midgard? Are there many generations of Odins and Thors and Lokis?



** As of ''Film/TheAvengers'', SHIELD researching the remains of the Destroyer, at least, is [[spoiler: confirmed. Furthermore, they've built a {{BFG}} using the tech and it's complete enough for Coulson to use it against Loki, though he claims not to know what it does.]]

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** As of ''Film/TheAvengers'', ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', SHIELD researching the remains of the Destroyer, at least, is [[spoiler: confirmed. Furthermore, they've built a {{BFG}} using the tech and it's complete enough for Coulson to use it against Loki, though he claims not to know what it does.]]
29th Jan '16 9:08:42 AM DarkStarling
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** There's also the possibility that they made it in the first place using an Infinity Stone, which they don't have access too anymore.
4th Dec '15 6:53:25 PM Discar
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*** It's possible to calculate Asgardian mental maturity vs. physical age, based on evidence from the films. In ''The Dark World'', Loki implies that Asgardians live for about five thousand years or so. Taking average human life expectancy as about eighty years, and assuming that Asgardians mature mentally at a rate that's more or less proportional to their lifespan- like humans- 62.5 years for an Asgardian is equivalent to one year of human development. Assuming that Loki was born during or at the end of the war between Asgard and Jotunheim, dated at about 965 C.E., and that Thor is a few years/decades older, both of them come out at about only ''seventeen years old'' mentally. [[FridgeBrilliance Which actually explains a lot]].

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*** ** It's possible to calculate Asgardian mental maturity vs. physical age, based on evidence from the films. In ''The Dark World'', Loki implies that Asgardians live for about five thousand years or so. Taking average human life expectancy as about eighty years, and assuming that Asgardians mature mentally at a rate that's more or less proportional to their lifespan- like humans- 62.5 years for an Asgardian is equivalent to one year of human development. Assuming that Loki was born during or at the end of the war between Asgard and Jotunheim, dated at about 965 C.E., and that Thor is a few years/decades older, both of them come out at about only ''seventeen years old'' mentally. [[FridgeBrilliance Which actually explains a lot]].



*** That's a masterwork of AlternateCharacterInterpretation right there.

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*** ** That's a masterwork of AlternateCharacterInterpretation right there.
4th Dec '15 5:47:25 PM ErikModi
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** On the other hand, just because we never see them travel to Asgard without Asgardian assistance doesn't mean they ''can't.'' It's possible they have the ability to attack Asgard, but it's not as easy or fast as stepping through the Bifrost. While it seems likely the Jotuns couldn't destroy Asgard outright in their current state, it seems equally likely that they could do significant damage and cost significant lives. And Odin is against "the horror of war" probably for the exact reason that it kills people.
4th Dec '15 5:41:41 PM ErikModi
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** It's quite likely that, in the MCU, Thor is not as widely known outside of those with an interest in Old Norse mythology precisely because a big-time comic book company hasn't been publishing fictional exploits of him in the modern day for the last fifty years. Even in our world, before the films, Thor was still relatively obscure. If weren't a comic or mythology nerd, you probably hadn't heard of him. For most Americans, "Pagan Thunder God" means Zeus, not Thor.
4th Dec '15 5:28:40 PM ErikModi
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** While all Norse gods have their warrior aspect, they have many others besides. This troper submits into evidence the story of Loki murdering Baldur. After arranging Baldur's death (involving magically forging a sprig of mistletoe, the only thing that hadn't sworn to never harm Baldur, into a spear, and getting a blind god to throw it at him), Loki is brought before Odin for judgement. Odin decides that Loki will go free, with ''no'' punishment, if he can but shed one sincere tear of remorse for Baldur's death. Now, Baldur was ''the'' most beloved of all Aesir (which is why everything in creation agreed to do him no harm), and according to some tellings his death kickstarts Ragnarok. Despite Loki having murdered the most beautiful and beloved god of all (and possibly bringing about the end of the world), Odin was still prepared to let him go scot-free if he just felt really bad about it! Compare to, say, what Zeus did to Prometheus for handing a dumb ape a burning stick. . .

Odin is primarily a god of wisdom and knowledge. His emphasis on warfare is largely due to his knowledge that Ragnarok is coming, and he can't stop it, but he'll try anyway. Point of fact: dying in battle wasn't the "only" way to a good afterlife. Half the slain of a battle go to Valhalla (Odin's Boot Camp for Ragnarok Soliders), the other half go to Folkvang (Freya's hall, where they're reunited with their lovers after death.) Everyone else goes to Hel/Hela's domain, which is just an afterlife, not a particularly unpleasant one, despite what Christian missionaries will tell you. Sure, Hela had a little corner of her domain set aside for people who needed some extra punishment, but by and large, Hel was just a place you went so you didn't mess things up by being a dead person in the land of the living. Under his aspect as a god of wisdom and knowledge, war for war's sake is about the least wise thing a person can do. Hence, him being very disappointed and angry with Thor for doing exactly that.

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** While all Norse gods have their warrior aspect, they have many others besides. This troper submits into evidence the story of Loki murdering Baldur. After arranging Baldur's death (involving magically forging a sprig of mistletoe, the only thing that hadn't sworn to never harm Baldur, into a spear, and getting a blind god to throw it at him), Loki is brought before Odin for judgement. Odin decides that Loki will go free, with ''no'' punishment, if he can but shed one sincere tear of remorse for Baldur's death. Now, Baldur was ''the'' most beloved of all Aesir (which is why everything in creation agreed to do him no harm), and according to some tellings his death kickstarts Ragnarok. Despite Loki having murdered the most beautiful and beloved god of all (and possibly bringing about the end of the world), Odin was still prepared to let him go scot-free if he just felt really bad about it! Compare to, say, what Zeus did to Prometheus for handing a dumb ape a burning stick. . . \n\n Odin is primarily a god of wisdom and knowledge. His emphasis on warfare is largely due to his knowledge that Ragnarok is coming, and he can't stop it, but he'll try anyway. Point of fact: dying in battle wasn't the "only" way to a good afterlife. Half the slain of a battle go to Valhalla (Odin's Boot Camp for Ragnarok Soliders), the other half go to Folkvang (Freya's hall, where they're reunited with their lovers after death.) Everyone else goes to Hel/Hela's domain, which is just an afterlife, not a particularly unpleasant one, despite what Christian missionaries will tell you. Sure, Hela had a little corner of her domain set aside for people who needed some extra punishment, but by and large, Hel was just a place you went so you didn't mess things up by being a dead person in the land of the living. Under his aspect as a god of wisdom and knowledge, war for war's sake is about the least wise thing a person can do. Hence, him being very disappointed and angry with Thor for doing exactly that.
4th Dec '15 5:27:35 PM ErikModi
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to:

** While all Norse gods have their warrior aspect, they have many others besides. This troper submits into evidence the story of Loki murdering Baldur. After arranging Baldur's death (involving magically forging a sprig of mistletoe, the only thing that hadn't sworn to never harm Baldur, into a spear, and getting a blind god to throw it at him), Loki is brought before Odin for judgement. Odin decides that Loki will go free, with ''no'' punishment, if he can but shed one sincere tear of remorse for Baldur's death. Now, Baldur was ''the'' most beloved of all Aesir (which is why everything in creation agreed to do him no harm), and according to some tellings his death kickstarts Ragnarok. Despite Loki having murdered the most beautiful and beloved god of all (and possibly bringing about the end of the world), Odin was still prepared to let him go scot-free if he just felt really bad about it! Compare to, say, what Zeus did to Prometheus for handing a dumb ape a burning stick. . .

Odin is primarily a god of wisdom and knowledge. His emphasis on warfare is largely due to his knowledge that Ragnarok is coming, and he can't stop it, but he'll try anyway. Point of fact: dying in battle wasn't the "only" way to a good afterlife. Half the slain of a battle go to Valhalla (Odin's Boot Camp for Ragnarok Soliders), the other half go to Folkvang (Freya's hall, where they're reunited with their lovers after death.) Everyone else goes to Hel/Hela's domain, which is just an afterlife, not a particularly unpleasant one, despite what Christian missionaries will tell you. Sure, Hela had a little corner of her domain set aside for people who needed some extra punishment, but by and large, Hel was just a place you went so you didn't mess things up by being a dead person in the land of the living. Under his aspect as a god of wisdom and knowledge, war for war's sake is about the least wise thing a person can do. Hence, him being very disappointed and angry with Thor for doing exactly that.
4th Dec '15 5:06:03 PM ErikModi
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*** That's a masterwork of AlternateCharacterInterpretation right there.
4th Dec '15 4:47:00 PM ErikModi
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** Even the best LARP/Cosplay outfits are generally identifiable as such, if nothing else then by a weapon that is obviously safe to comply with local laws. Sif and Warriors Three are carrying very obviously NOT safe weapons. And as mentioned above, once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is a pattern. For scientists like Jane and Selvig, even a political scientist like Darcy, five is more or less irrefutable proof. Now, granted, all this might take talking to Sif and WT for a bit, but for their initial reaction. . . well, if four dudes in Viking armor knocked on ''your'' kitchen window at breakfast, you'd be a tad out-of-sorts for a moment, too. And if you were playing host to someone claiming to be a Norse god at the time. . .
4th Dec '15 4:17:57 PM ErikModi
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** Odinsleep in general is no big deal, this particular one was unplanned, and much more severe, as evidenced by dialogue. It seems likely that Odin knows when he'll need to Odinsleep soon, and so makes preparations to be away for a little bit. This time, the stress of banishing Thor and having Loki learn his heritage, and throw it in Odin's face rather aggressively, triggered a premature and far deeper Odinsleep than usual, leaving Asgard in crisis. Add to that the potential impending war with Jotunheim, and it's no surprise the Asgardians would fall in line behind the only prince they had.
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