History Headscratchers / TheWire

18th Feb '17 5:15:49 PM brokenwit
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** It's important to remember what The Greek represents: Capitalism in its purest form. Capitalists only benefit from conflict when they can directly profit from the circumstances, i.e. when conflict only ''indirectly'' affects them. Otherwise, they '''''strongly''''' hate conflict, as like government regulations and laws, it creates an encumbrance to trade. A conflict over a link in the supply line is guaranteed to kill business. Marlo's strength in this series always came from playing the game innately. He knew or deduced the Greeks wouldn't want a war to erupt over their connection. So his plan was to minimize conflict. Moreover, to The Greek, Marlo is just another face in a long line to represent the distributor of the supply. It matters not who he is or what he's capable of. As long as Marlo doesn't threaten the Greeks by bypassing access to the supply, they have no quarrel. The Greek's "competition" is not the dealers like Marlo and Prop Joe, but other drug suppliers.
18th Feb '17 3:39:53 PM brokenwit
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** Also important: The Greek, like any good capitalist, has a friend in the FBI.
16th Feb '17 12:52:40 PM neckinhalf
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* As cautious as the Greeks are, why would they let Marlo replace Joe? I know the WordOfGod reason for this: The Greek himself concluded that Marlo was going to kill Joe and rather than warn Joe and possibly get entangled in a war over their product, they just let Marlo proceed. But they still don't know Marlo like they know Joe. His inexperience in being the main connect may lead to a mistake that compromises them. Joe likely didn't teach him everything there is to know. Is that risk really worse than warning Joe and seeing what happens?

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* As cautious as the Greeks are, why would they let Marlo replace Joe? I know the WordOfGod reason for this: The Greek himself concluded that Marlo was going to kill Joe and rather than warn Joe and possibly get entangled in a war over their product, they just let Marlo proceed. But they still don't know Marlo like they know Joe. His inexperience in being the main connect may lead to a mistake that compromises them. Joe likely didn't teach him everything there is to know. Is that risk really worse better than warning Joe and seeing what happens?
15th Feb '17 7:11:25 PM neckinhalf
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* As cautious as the Greeks are, why would they let Marlo replace Joe? I know the {{WordOfGod stated}} reason for this: The Greek himself concluded that Marlo was going to kill Joe and rather than warn Joe and possibly get entangled in a war over their product, they just let Marlo proceed. But they still don't know Marlo like they know Joe. His inexperience in being the main connect may lead to a mistake that compromises them. Joe likely didn't teach him everything there is to know. Is that risk really worse than warning Joe and seeing what happens?

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* As cautious as the Greeks are, why would they let Marlo replace Joe? I know the {{WordOfGod stated}} WordOfGod reason for this: The Greek himself concluded that Marlo was going to kill Joe and rather than warn Joe and possibly get entangled in a war over their product, they just let Marlo proceed. But they still don't know Marlo like they know Joe. His inexperience in being the main connect may lead to a mistake that compromises them. Joe likely didn't teach him everything there is to know. Is that risk really worse than warning Joe and seeing what happens?
15th Feb '17 7:08:59 PM neckinhalf
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[[folder:The Greeks and Marlo]]
* As cautious as the Greeks are, why would they let Marlo replace Joe? I know the {{WordOfGod stated}} reason for this: The Greek himself concluded that Marlo was going to kill Joe and rather than warn Joe and possibly get entangled in a war over their product, they just let Marlo proceed. But they still don't know Marlo like they know Joe. His inexperience in being the main connect may lead to a mistake that compromises them. Joe likely didn't teach him everything there is to know. Is that risk really worse than warning Joe and seeing what happens?
[[/folder]]
12th Feb '17 7:25:21 PM BanjoTCat
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** It's to maximize benefit and minimize risk. Assuming that the cases go cold, those bodies are on Royce's plate. But if there is a breakthrough, then the clearance will go on Carcetti. Keep in mind, at this point, the police aren't aware that the budget shortfall will affect them the way it will the next season.
5th Feb '17 5:44:44 AM Merseyuser1
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* Due to the LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters and contractual issues, at a guess, this is probably why many regulars were credited as Guest Starring, therefore being a FakeGuestStar? How many actors are typically on an OBB (opening billboard)?

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* Due to the LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters and contractual issues, at a guess, is this is the reason probably why many regulars were credited as Guest Starring, therefore being a FakeGuestStar? How many actors are typically on an OBB (opening billboard)?
5th Feb '17 5:42:10 AM Merseyuser1
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[[folder:Guest Starring credits, Fake Guest Star and general casting issues]]
* Due to the LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters and contractual issues, at a guess, this is probably why many regulars were credited as Guest Starring, therefore being a FakeGuestStar? How many actors are typically on an OBB (opening billboard)?
[[/folder]]
17th Dec '16 6:54:11 PM dmcreif
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** The biggest problem with the entire scenario is that Templeton is such an obvious fabulist that Klebanow and Whiting (but especially Klebanow) get far too credulous to be taken seriously as characters. Gus was just using common sense and the paper's own sourcing standards to show why these stories should not be getting published, but the bosses are portrayed as being so clueless that he seems like the perfect journalist by comparison. In honesty, the entire execution of the Templeton matter would've worked better if Klebanow had been portrayed as someone who was so set on selling papers that he was willing to ignore his own suspicions (as opposed to being completely oblivious). Instead, Klebanow gets concrete evidence that Scott is making shit up, and the best he can do is "it's personal between you and Scott". That kind of ineptitude stacks the deck more in Gus's favor than anything Gus does.



** The Barksdales have to rely on their own muscle, as these guys, except for Slim, are independent and have no reason to help them in the war or hit Marlo later (until Omar is drawn into it). Part of the point is that the Barksdale empire is no longer a gang but an organization, and as with every institution of the story, dysfunctional. Stringer's heart and mind are not in the streets (the botched hit on Omar happens thanks to slow burocracy, Slim is not in reach and String is in a business meeting and has to give a quick answer), he hasn't been able to find competent soldiers to replace Wee-Bey, Bird & co, and he doesn't really have to, because out of necessity and pragmatism, he chose to co-exist with Prop. Joe. Years without a real threat have filled the ranks with incompetent muscle, with the short-lived exceptions of Cutty and Country, who are old school. Avon has to swallow his pride and hire some Eastside good soldiers, but by then internal strife is already eating away the crumbling organization. By contrast Marlo runs a militarized gang, simple and focused in the streets (not even a lawyer on payroll), with a single leader, so much more agile and effective.

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** The Barksdales have to rely on their own muscle, as these guys, except for Slim, are independent and have no reason to help them in the war or hit Marlo later (until Omar is drawn into it). Part of the point is that the Barksdale empire is no longer a gang but an organization, and as with every institution of the story, dysfunctional. Stringer's heart and mind are not in the streets (the botched hit on Omar happens thanks to slow burocracy, Slim is not in reach and String is in a business meeting and has to give a quick answer), he hasn't been able to find competent soldiers to replace Wee-Bey, Bird & co, and he doesn't really have to, because out of necessity and pragmatism, he chose to co-exist with Prop. Joe. Years without a real threat have filled the ranks with incompetent muscle, with the short-lived exceptions of old-schoolers like Cutty and Country, who are old school.Country. Avon has to swallow his pride and hire some Eastside good soldiers, but by then internal strife is already eating away the crumbling organization. By contrast Marlo runs a militarized gang, simple and focused in the streets (not (they don't even have a lawyer on payroll), payroll until season 5), with a single leader, so much more agile and effective.



** I think Stringer was just super paranoid that D'Angelo could turn at any time for any reason, despite what he says. If he folded, the entire Barksdale Organization is gone, and Stringer is facing years in jail, if not life. He saw it as too much of a risk to take. As for sleeping with Donette, I think Stringer just took a liking to her and there wasn't any intentional attempt to ruin his life (besides having him killed, of course).
** Stringer has every reason to consider D a liability after he gets called out in the "Where's Wallace?" confrontation. "No seconds acts in the American life". D'Angelo consistently proves that he is a weak link from the beginning, when he's demoted from the towers and reassigned to the pit and has to be baby-sitted by Levy and Avon several times. After he's arrested, he ask for his own defendant and reveals that Wee-Bey is in Philly, which leads to his arrest. He's about to make a deal with the authorities and only a last minute plea from his own mother stops him. The moment he brushes Avon off in jail, he proves again that he cannot be trusted and Avon implictly knows it too. This is the game, ResignationsNotAccepted if you don't play by the rules (as Cutty did do)

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** I think Stringer was just super paranoid that D'Angelo could turn at any time for any reason, despite what he says. If he folded, the entire Barksdale Organization is gone, and Stringer is facing years in jail, if not life. He saw it as too much of a risk to take. As for sleeping with Donette, I think Stringer just took a liking to her and there wasn't any intentional attempt to ruin his life (besides having him killed, of course).
** Stringer has every reason to consider D D'Angelo a liability after he gets called out in the "Where's Wallace?" confrontation. "No seconds acts in the American life". D'Angelo consistently proves that he is a weak link from the beginning, when he's demoted from the towers and reassigned to the pit over the entire matter of Pooh Blanchard, and has to be baby-sitted babysat by Levy and Avon several times. After he's arrested, he ask for his own defendant and reveals that Wee-Bey is in Philly, which leads to his arrest. He's about to make a deal with the authorities and only a last minute plea from his own mother stops him. The moment he brushes Avon off in jail, he proves again that he cannot be trusted and Avon implictly implicitly knows it too. This is the game, ResignationsNotAccepted if you don't play by the rules (as Cutty did do) do).



** If we're being technical, Poot (who, if we recall, was actually the one who noticed and successfully identified Brandon as the stick-up guy) should also have gotten a cut. However, this one is more easily explained: he probably asked Wallace and possibly D'Angelo to keep his name out of it; that's consistent with his character development. Why Stinkum was omitted is still unknown. Unless maybe he just volunteered to do it for free because he saw turning gay stick-up guys into ashtrays as a necessity to the job.
** Remember that it's Stinkum who gets to take a shot at Scar's territory and gets a chance to be taken "off salary" and get a percentage of his business. It's possible that he turned down payment for his part in Brandon's murder for that opportunity. It's also possible that Stinkum didn't actually take part in the murder, and was just there to oversee. Bird and Wee-Bey are straight muscle; Stinkum's job also involves moving product.

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** If we're being technical, Poot (who, if we recall, was actually the one who noticed and successfully identified Brandon as the stick-up guy) should also have gotten a cut. However, this one is more easily explained: he probably asked Wallace and possibly D'Angelo to keep his name out of it; that's consistent with his character development. Why Stinkum was omitted is still unknown. Unless maybe he just volunteered to do it for free because he saw turning gay stick-up guys into ashtrays as a necessity to the job.
was his specialty.
** Remember that it's Stinkum who gets to take a shot at Scar's territory and gets a chance to be taken go "off salary" and get a percentage of his business. It's possible that he turned down payment for his part in Brandon's murder for that opportunity. It's also possible that Stinkum didn't actually take part in the murder, and was just there to oversee. Bird and Wee-Bey are straight muscle; Stinkum's job also involves moving product.



** There's a joke: "What does a lesbian bring to a second date?" "A u-haul." It describes the purported tendency of lesbians to shack up more quickly than people of other sexual persuasions. That doesn't answer why she doesn't alert Kima, but I think the previous poster speaks to that ably.

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** There's a joke: "What does a lesbian bring to a second date?" "A u-haul.U-Haul." It describes the purported tendency of lesbians to shack up more quickly than people of other sexual persuasions. That doesn't answer why she doesn't alert Kima, but I think the previous poster speaks to that ably.



* Perhaps a bigger question is why Carver chose to give up trying to save Randy from the group home. In theory, I think he could've gone through the application process. Randy would still stay in the group home, though temporarily. I'm sure that they would have okayed him within a couple of months, 3 at the most. It (probably) would have been easier to tell Randy to hang in there for a couple of months, rather than a couple of years. Then the next season, we see a taller, more muscular and angry, Randy, who has obviously been hardened by the system. As upset as Carver was at dropping him off, you would think he wouldn't let something so minor stop him from getting Randy out of that situation.
** Carver wanted to prevent Randy from going back to the foster home for even one day because the damage would have already been done months later. If it weren't already clear from the fact that Randy was getting beat up on the streets and having his house burned, his snitch label is exactly what Carver was fearing about Randy returning to the foster home. Also keep in mind that Carver made an impulsive decision about adopting Randy in the first place. No one really knows if he was actually cut out to be a guardian in the long run, which is why there is a vetting period in the first place. Carver may have reached the same conclusion after cooling off and opted to not go back for Randy. He knew the minute Randy stepped into the foster home he was already done for which is why he reacted the way he did in the first place.

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* Perhaps a bigger question is why Carver chose to give up trying to save Randy from the group home. In theory, I think he could've gone through the application process. Randy would still stay in the group home, though temporarily. I'm sure that they would have okayed him within a couple of months, 3 at the most. It (probably) would have been easier to tell Randy to hang in there for a couple of months, rather than a couple of years. Then the next season, by the time Bunk drops by to see him, we see a taller, more muscular and angry, Randy, who has obviously been hardened by the system. As upset as Carver was at dropping him off, you would think he wouldn't let something so minor stop him from getting Randy out of that situation.
** Carver wanted to prevent Randy from going back to the foster home for even one day because the damage would have already been done months later. If it weren't already clear from the fact that Randy was getting beat up on the streets and having his house burned, his snitch label is exactly what Carver was fearing about Randy returning to the foster home. Also keep in mind that Carver made an impulsive decision about adopting Randy in the first place. No one really knows if he was actually cut out to be a guardian in the long run, which is why there is a vetting period in the first place. Carver may have reached the same conclusion realized it himself after cooling off and opted to not go back for Randy. He knew the minute Randy stepped into the foster home he was already done for which is why he reacted the way he did in the first place.



** A couple things. First, it seems likely that a lot of those kids have friends or family who have been arrested and would have no love for informants. Second, even if Marlo told his gang not to do anything (because it might lead back to him), that's not going to stop wannabes from doing something to try to impress him. Third, teenage boys, especially ones with the rage issues shown over and over on the show, don't need a big excuse to bully anyone. Randy's like the gay kid in class, only much worse in their eyes.
** Marlo was in clean-up mode and ordering the deaths of anyone that could have possibly snitched on him, including Little Kevin (who didn't say a word), and Bodie (who was getting ready to snitch, but hadn't given any useful information yet). He makes an exception for Randy (probably because he's just a kid), but his ordering of his crew to "spread the word" that he'd been snitching was obviously done to get the results that he did. It's clear that snitches are not tolerated in the school, and the retribution that Randy receives isn't any specific kind of payback from Marlo's crew but more in line with a more general bullying, taken to extremes.

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** A couple things. First, **First, it seems likely that a lot of those kids have friends or family who have been arrested and would have no love for informants. Second, even if Marlo told his gang not to do anything (because it might lead back to him), that's not going to stop wannabes from doing something to try to impress him. Third, teenage boys, especially ones with the rage issues shown over and over on the show, don't need a big excuse to bully anyone. Randy's like the gay kid in class, only much worse in their eyes.
** Marlo was in clean-up mode and ordering the deaths of anyone that could have possibly snitched on him, including Little Kevin (who didn't say a word), and Bodie (who was getting ready to snitch, but hadn't given any useful information yet). He makes an exception for Randy (probably because he's just a kid), of his age), but his ordering of his crew to "spread the word" that he'd been snitching was obviously done to get the results that he did. It's clear that snitches are not tolerated in the school, and the retribution that Randy receives isn't any specific kind of payback from Marlo's crew but more in line with a more general bullying, taken to extremes.



** There's also the fact that Bodie wasn't charged in part because he had [=McNulty=] there to advocate for him (note the halfway-regard Bodie treats Jimmy with the following season)... probably Bodie didn't even need a lawyer this time. Poot was not so lucky.
** It's never really shown what happens to the Hamsterdam dealers. But Poot himself was not arrested for dealing in Hamsterdam, he was implicated in the MCU's wiretaps of the Barksdale Organization and that is why he is on trial with the Barksdale organization members in the ending montage. It could be many of the Hamsterdam dealers did indeed beat their charges this way - certainly, arresting all those mid-level dealers is not shown to have made any dent in the drug trade by season 4. Bear in mind, the operation to take out Hamsterdam is primarily a political one: it's done quickly and instantly after Burrell makes his deal so that the police can round up the witnesses and stick them in the joint for a few days and demolish the vacant properties, and that in turn allows the Mayor's office and Burrell to make Colvin their scapegoat for the debacle.

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** There's also the fact that Bodie wasn't charged in part because he had [=McNulty=] there to advocate for him (note the halfway-regard Bodie treats Jimmy [=McNulty=] with the following season)... probably Bodie didn't even need a lawyer this time. Poot was not so lucky.
** It's never really shown what happens to the Hamsterdam dealers. But Poot himself was not arrested for dealing in Hamsterdam, he was implicated in the MCU's MCU wiretaps of the Barksdale Organization and that is why he is on trial at that arraignment hearing with the Barksdale organization members in the ending montage. It could be many if not all of the Hamsterdam dealers did indeed beat their charges this way - certainly, arresting all those mid-level dealers is not shown to have made any dent in the drug trade by season 4. Bear in mind, 4.
***Also,
the operation to take out Hamsterdam is primarily was entirely a political one: it's one. It's done quickly and instantly after Burrell makes his deal so that the police can round up the witnesses and stick them in the joint for a few days and demolish the vacant properties, and that in turn allows the Mayor's office and Burrell to make Colvin their scapegoat for the debacle.



***Not only that, but Herc had requested for Carver to be brought onto the detail. I think Daniels had planned to set aside a slot for Sydnor, and it was that slot that Carver ended up filling. Once Herc and Carver transferred to the Western District, Daniels was able to bring Sydnor back since he now had an opening for the guy.



** In Bird's particular case, Wee-Bay already admitted to the Gant murder. Obviously it didn't convince the detectives but Bird didn't have to be imprisoned if it could have been avoided. They didn't need a fall guy. The Barksdales at the point of season 2 weren't looking to lose more muscle.

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** In Bird's particular case, Wee-Bay had already admitted to the Gant murder. Obviously it didn't convince the detectives but Bird didn't have to be imprisoned if it could have been avoided. They didn't need a fall guy. The Barksdales at the point of season 2 weren't looking to lose more muscle.



** In the Baltimore Police Department, there are three kinds of cops: the ones who care about doing real police work, the ones who care about climbing the career ladder, and the ones who are essentially thugs with badges who parade about like the playground bully thinking the badge gives them license to abuse anyone they please (Valchek, Herc and Collichio, per se). [=McNulty=] does real police work (though he's too self-righteous for it to not also be about himself and his own ego) and he specifically bucks the chain of command stuff. The problem is that by doing real police work he actually makes it harder for the career climbers to do what they do because in this department the shit always rolls downhill. And that is a theme that repeats itself ''ad nauseam'' throughout the show. That real police work is pretty hard in a department where all the people in charge of policy are trying to climb the ladder. Of course, there is that scene where Landsman gets Rawls to give [=McNulty=] an out and bring himself back into the fold because [=McNulty=] is a fairly competent investigator. Rawls isn't totally blind to this, but he's also a self serving career climber and a true believer in chain of command and the way the shit rolls down to everyone below, keeping him unburdened so that he may continue his rise.
** On a second watch, I get the feeling that a long time ago, Rawls and Burrell actually DID care about real police work. But when they saw how hamstrung you'd get, so they figured the only way to survive was to just play the game and work on their careers. There's a clear difference and self-awareness between them (Rawls shows it a lot. We don't see it with Burrell until the very end) and guys like Valchek who are clearly just bullies who wanted the badge for the power they think it'll give them. So Rawls' negativity towards [=McNulty=] could be because he sees where [=McNulty=] is coming from. And he hates that because he knows [=McNulty=] will just cause problems for everyone due to the system he decided to give up fighting a long time ago. If anything, I could argue Rawls may have done all the sorts of things [=McNulty=] did in the show, but the frustrations of the bureaucracy made him choose to get in line with the program rather than be the loose cannon.

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** In the show's Baltimore Police Department, there are three kinds of cops: the ones who care about doing real police work, work ([=McNulty=], Lester, Major Colvin), the ones who care about climbing the career ladder, ladder (Rawls), and the ones who are essentially thugs with badges who parade about like the playground bully thinking the badge gives them license to abuse anyone they please (Valchek, Herc and Collichio, per se).Collichio). [=McNulty=] does real police work (though he's too self-righteous for it to not also be about himself and his own ego) and he specifically bucks the chain of command stuff. The problem is that by doing real police work he actually makes it harder for the career climbers to do what they do because in this department the shit always rolls downhill. And that is a theme that repeats itself ''ad nauseam'' throughout the show. That real police work is pretty hard in a department where all the people in charge of policy are trying to climb the ladder. Of course, there is that scene where Landsman gets Rawls to give [=McNulty=] an out and bring himself back into the fold because [=McNulty=] is a fairly competent investigator. Rawls isn't totally blind to this, but he's also a self serving career climber and a true believer in chain of command and the way the shit rolls down to everyone below, keeping him unburdened so that he may continue his rise.
** On a second watch, I get the feeling that a long time ago, Rawls and Burrell actually DID care about real police work. But when they saw how hamstrung you'd get, so they figured the only way to survive was to just play the game and work on their careers. There's a clear difference and self-awareness between them (Rawls shows it a lot. We don't see it with Burrell until the very end) and guys like Valchek who are clearly just bullies who wanted the badge for the power they think it'll give them. So Rawls' negativity towards [=McNulty=] could be because he sees where [=McNulty=] is coming from. And he hates that because he knows [=McNulty=] will just cause problems for everyone due to the system he decided to give up fighting a long time ago. If anything, I could argue that back in the day, Rawls may have done did all the sorts of things [=McNulty=] did in the show, did, but the frustrations of the bureaucracy made him choose whereas [=McNulty=] ended up destroying his own career, Rawls eventually chose to get fall in line with the program rather than be the loose cannon.
21st Nov '16 11:46:46 AM vsun5492
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** Carver wanted to prevent Randy from going into the foster home for even one day because the damage would have already been done months later. If it weren't already clear from the fact that Randy was getting beat up on the streets and having his house burned, his snitch label is exactly what Carver was fearing about Randy returning to the foster home. Also keep in mind that Carver made an impulsive decision about adopting Randy in the first place. No one really knows if he was actually cut out to be a guardian in the long run, which is why there is a vetting period in the first place. Carver may have reached the same conclusion after cooling off and opted to not go back for Randy. He knew the minute Randy stepped into the foster home he was already done for which is why he reacted the way he did in the first place.

to:

** Carver wanted to prevent Randy from going into back to the foster home for even one day because the damage would have already been done months later. If it weren't already clear from the fact that Randy was getting beat up on the streets and having his house burned, his snitch label is exactly what Carver was fearing about Randy returning to the foster home. Also keep in mind that Carver made an impulsive decision about adopting Randy in the first place. No one really knows if he was actually cut out to be a guardian in the long run, which is why there is a vetting period in the first place. Carver may have reached the same conclusion after cooling off and opted to not go back for Randy. He knew the minute Randy stepped into the foster home he was already done for which is why he reacted the way he did in the first place.
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