History Headscratchers / TheSecretOfNIMH

20th Apr '16 12:34:02 AM erforce
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* I recall hearing during the making-of featurette for ''IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade'' that the animal wranglers couldn't simply capture rats off the streets or from out in the wild; the rats they worked with had been specially bred and tamed, because street or wild animals generally carry diseases, lice, etc. So my question is this: would a science lab really capture feral rats off the streets of a city? Wouldn't they obtain their rats (and their other animals) from a breeder, to make sure they were tame and disease-free?

to:

* I recall hearing during the making-of featurette for ''IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade'' ''Film/IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade'' that the animal wranglers couldn't simply capture rats off the streets or from out in the wild; the rats they worked with had been specially bred and tamed, because street or wild animals generally carry diseases, lice, etc. So my question is this: would a science lab really capture feral rats off the streets of a city? Wouldn't they obtain their rats (and their other animals) from a breeder, to make sure they were tame and disease-free?
13th Feb '16 11:39:00 AM drunkrobot
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Added DiffLines:

* What the hell was Jenner doing at the end? His plan to kill Nicodemus went off without a hitch, he basically had the Rats of NIMH wrapped around his fingers, and what does he do when Mrs. Brisby comes in to warn them of N.I.M.H coming in to exterminate them? He goes crazy and tries to kill her, ''right in front of the rest of the Rats of NIHM.'' While killing any innocent person for simply warning of potential danger would call his ability as a leader into serious question, this was Mrs. Brisby he just tried to kill, the wife of one of the Rats of NIHM's most beloved members, to whom they felt they owed enough to delay their plan to ensure the survival of their society just to save the house and family of said widowed wife. At no point did Jenner develop a personal reason to want Mrs. Brisby dead, and neither is he presented as a particularly stupid plotter, so why didn't he just try to keep his cool and use his silver tongue to dismiss her warnings to the group, instead of bluntly attacking her and completely discrediting himself in front of everyone?
3rd Jan '16 6:36:52 PM Homemaderat
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*** The book's page also elaborates on this. As in this story it is clear everyday animals have certain concepts are able to rationalize some human parts. However without the drugs to uplift them, some things are probably forever beyond them. The movie blurs this line a bit more by anthropomorphize the characters more than the book ever did. It also has to be remembered our main source is Mrs. Frisby/Brisby who lived with one of the mice and their kids. She might have known a lot more just by this fact. Had the POV character been another random mouse, they might have not been as human-wise. As in it was Jonathon who understood the concepts and taught Mrs. to talk using them.
23rd Dec '15 11:53:19 AM SnowyWolf
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* The moving of the Brisby home was very dangerous. Timmy's case is obvious, he can't go outside, but why weren't the other children evacuated for this? Or they could have had Mr. Ages, Justin or someone go into the home to take care of the kids and make sure they stayed calm and safe?
3rd Dec '15 11:19:41 AM PurrElise
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[[folder:The Sequel]]
* Martin's character design in the sequel when he's evil is nothing like his usual character design other than his eye color. And even then, Martin can somehow control the appearance of his eyes, like the hypno spiral. His fur is much darker. He had a cream colored pelt and a white shape on his chest (you know, the type in every animated show with a talking animal) but now he has dark gray (green in some shots) fur. Who does his dye job? They did a crappy job sense his fur color changes back. He seems (he's wearing a cloak) to have lost weight and grown taller. Fine, I can understand that but these he then shrinks and gains back the weight. And now he has a British accent. Fine, Stockholm Syndrome would explain that if the humans were British. But he becomes American again once he's good and his voice also becomes that of a fifteen year old as opposed to Evil Martin's quite adult voice. How does that work?!
** I don't consider the sequel to be canon. I know it technically is, but it's so out of touch with the original. See if that helps.
*** I don't consider it good form to give a response that boils down to "it doesn't matter, because it's {{Fanon Discontinuity}}" because it tends to stifle discussion. That's the right of anyone here, though, so, [[ShrugTake meh]]. To the original troper, I say that it's an EvilMakeover, which happens enough to be a supertrope of its own. [[WatsonianVersusDoylist In-story]], because [[DarkIsEvil Evil Is Dark]] according to [[AWizardDidIt whatever magic gave him the hypnosis eyes]], a more menacing expression and posture can do a lot to change someone (especially if they exude an aura of evil or at least [[{{Disneyfication}} not-niceness]] a la [[Literature/TheStrangeCaseOfDrJekyllAndMrHyde Mr. Hyde]]), and that sort of British accent is [[EvilIsCool cool]]. Out-of-story, because he [[SarcasmMode needed to]] be [[EvilMakesYouMonstrous turned into]] an ObviouslyEvil MoustacheTwirlingVillain so [[ViewersAreMorons the poor, dull-witted kids wouldn't be confused]] about why Martin was suddenly rampaging around and being a mean person, and be happy when he turned [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop normal]].
*** [[WildMassGuessing Maybe the DNA he was given in the lab to make him smart had been derived from a British-bred lab mouse with a different fur color?]]
*** Just speculating, but considering how Martin appeared to have become something of an evil Necodemus, complete with robes and psychic powers, and how during his Villain song he appears to switch back and forth between his old and new appearance, while changing the background into an evil candyland, it's possible his change in appearance is some kind of mental illusion to intimidate Tim, either psychically or through the use of some new device he created. Kind of how some people speculate that the God-Emperor of 40k didn't actually look half as impressive as he appeared, and that his golden armor and blinding aura were illusion.

* Now to quote the old name of this page, this one Just Bugs Me. Where is the electricity gone in this movie ?!? In the original, the whole point of the rat is that they know complicated mechanics, especially electricity lighting and the likes. At the end of the movie they're on their way to Thorn Valley where they are supposed to rebuild their civilization but this time without stealing. And thenů in this sequel, the rats barely have any complicated or sophisticated machines. We see some cartoony clockwork in the Parade scene, and Mr Ages's lab still contains some chemistry items, but no electricity whatsoever !?! Granted, maybe that's because the writers of the sequel paid too much attention about the rat's remarks that "stealing electricity from the farmer is wrong", but couldn't they make electricity generators/dynamos using steam power or a dam on the river we ''do'' see in Thorn Valley ? And even if they can't, electricity aside, their Thorn Valley building still look too primitive and rural compared to what the rats were able to do under the Rosebush (the Council room and all that).
** And please, what I'm asking for is some sort of canon/plausible in-universe explanation, not "the writers didn't pay attention" or the likes.
[[/folder]]
15th Nov '15 3:26:44 AM Homemaderat
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to:

** This is a rough question to give an answer because it might be prone to bad generalizations. There are very good reasons why there are domesticated rodents. However there also could be experiments out there with more specific requirements. As in some may say "a rat is a rat". but some might prefer wild over domesticated. As there are some stimuli and intelligence that an animal will have if they live in the wild that they won't ever have if raised in captivity.
23rd Sep '15 7:33:19 AM ScroogeMacDuck
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* A meta one: where is the electricity gone in this movie ?!? In the original, the whole point of the rat is that they know complicated mechanics, especially electricity lighting and the likes. At the end of the movie they're on their way to Thorn Valley where they are supposed to rebuild their civilization but this time without stealing. And thenů in this sequel, the rats barely have any complicated or sophisticated machines. We see some cartoony clockwork in the Parade scene, and Mr Ages's lab still contains some chemistry items, but no electricity whatsoever !?! Granted, maybe that's because the writers of the sequel paid too much attention about the rat's remarks that "stealing electricity from the farmer is wrong", but couldn't they make electricity generators/dynamos using steam power or a dam on the river we ''do'' see in Thorn Valley ? And even if they can't, electricity aside, their Thorn Valley building still look too primitive and rural compared to what the rats were able to do under the Rosebush (the Council room and all that).

to:

* A meta one: where Now to quote the old name of this page, this one Just Bugs Me. Where is the electricity gone in this movie ?!? In the original, the whole point of the rat is that they know complicated mechanics, especially electricity lighting and the likes. At the end of the movie they're on their way to Thorn Valley where they are supposed to rebuild their civilization but this time without stealing. And thenů in this sequel, the rats barely have any complicated or sophisticated machines. We see some cartoony clockwork in the Parade scene, and Mr Ages's lab still contains some chemistry items, but no electricity whatsoever !?! Granted, maybe that's because the writers of the sequel paid too much attention about the rat's remarks that "stealing electricity from the farmer is wrong", but couldn't they make electricity generators/dynamos using steam power or a dam on the river we ''do'' see in Thorn Valley ? And even if they can't, electricity aside, their Thorn Valley building still look too primitive and rural compared to what the rats were able to do under the Rosebush (the Council room and all that).
23rd Sep '15 7:30:43 AM ScroogeMacDuck
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* Martin's character design in the sequel when he's evil is nothing like his usual character design other than his eye color. And even then, Martin can somehow control the appearance of his eyes, like the hypno spiral. His fur is much darker. He had a cream colored pelt and a white shape on his chest (you know, the type in every animated show with a talking animal) but now he has dark gray (green in some shots) fur. Who does his dye job? They did a crappy job sense his fur color changes back. He seems (he's wearing a cloak) to have lost weight and grown taller. Fine, I can understand that but these he then shrinks and gains back the weight. And now he has a British accent. Fine, Stockholm Syndrome would explain that if the humans were British. But he becomes American again once he's good and his voice also becomes that of a fifteen year old as opposed to Evil Martin's quite adult voice. How does that work?!
** I don't consider the sequel to be canon. I know it technically is, but it's so out of touch with the original. See if that helps.
*** I don't consider it good form to give a response that boils down to "it doesn't matter, because it's {{Fanon Discontinuity}}" because it tends to stifle discussion. That's the right of anyone here, though, so, [[ShrugTake meh]]. To the original troper, I say that it's an EvilMakeover, which happens enough to be a supertrope of its own. [[WatsonianVersusDoylist In-story]], because [[DarkIsEvil Evil Is Dark]] according to [[AWizardDidIt whatever magic gave him the hypnosis eyes]], a more menacing expression and posture can do a lot to change someone (especially if they exude an aura of evil or at least [[{{Disneyfication}} not-niceness]] a la [[Literature/TheStrangeCaseOfDrJekyllAndMrHyde Mr. Hyde]]), and that sort of British accent is [[EvilIsCool cool]]. Out-of-story, because he [[SarcasmMode needed to]] be [[EvilMakesYouMonstrous turned into]] an ObviouslyEvil MoustacheTwirlingVillain so [[ViewersAreMorons the poor, dull-witted kids wouldn't be confused]] about why Martin was suddenly rampaging around and being a mean person, and be happy when he turned [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop normal]].
*** [[WildMassGuessing Maybe the DNA he was given in the lab to make him smart had been derived from a British-bred lab mouse with a different fur color?]]
*** Just speculating, but considering how Martin appeared to have become something of an evil Necodemus, complete with robes and psychic powers, and how during his Villain song he appears to switch back and forth between his old and new appearance, while changing the background into an evil candyland, it's possible his change in appearance is some kind of mental illusion to intimidate Tim, either psychically or through the use of some new device he created. Kind of how some people speculate that the God-Emperor of 40k didn't actually look half as impressive as he appeared, and that his golden armor and blinding aura were illusion.


Added DiffLines:


[[folder:The Sequel]]
* Martin's character design in the sequel when he's evil is nothing like his usual character design other than his eye color. And even then, Martin can somehow control the appearance of his eyes, like the hypno spiral. His fur is much darker. He had a cream colored pelt and a white shape on his chest (you know, the type in every animated show with a talking animal) but now he has dark gray (green in some shots) fur. Who does his dye job? They did a crappy job sense his fur color changes back. He seems (he's wearing a cloak) to have lost weight and grown taller. Fine, I can understand that but these he then shrinks and gains back the weight. And now he has a British accent. Fine, Stockholm Syndrome would explain that if the humans were British. But he becomes American again once he's good and his voice also becomes that of a fifteen year old as opposed to Evil Martin's quite adult voice. How does that work?!
** I don't consider the sequel to be canon. I know it technically is, but it's so out of touch with the original. See if that helps.
*** I don't consider it good form to give a response that boils down to "it doesn't matter, because it's {{Fanon Discontinuity}}" because it tends to stifle discussion. That's the right of anyone here, though, so, [[ShrugTake meh]]. To the original troper, I say that it's an EvilMakeover, which happens enough to be a supertrope of its own. [[WatsonianVersusDoylist In-story]], because [[DarkIsEvil Evil Is Dark]] according to [[AWizardDidIt whatever magic gave him the hypnosis eyes]], a more menacing expression and posture can do a lot to change someone (especially if they exude an aura of evil or at least [[{{Disneyfication}} not-niceness]] a la [[Literature/TheStrangeCaseOfDrJekyllAndMrHyde Mr. Hyde]]), and that sort of British accent is [[EvilIsCool cool]]. Out-of-story, because he [[SarcasmMode needed to]] be [[EvilMakesYouMonstrous turned into]] an ObviouslyEvil MoustacheTwirlingVillain so [[ViewersAreMorons the poor, dull-witted kids wouldn't be confused]] about why Martin was suddenly rampaging around and being a mean person, and be happy when he turned [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop normal]].
*** [[WildMassGuessing Maybe the DNA he was given in the lab to make him smart had been derived from a British-bred lab mouse with a different fur color?]]
*** Just speculating, but considering how Martin appeared to have become something of an evil Necodemus, complete with robes and psychic powers, and how during his Villain song he appears to switch back and forth between his old and new appearance, while changing the background into an evil candyland, it's possible his change in appearance is some kind of mental illusion to intimidate Tim, either psychically or through the use of some new device he created. Kind of how some people speculate that the God-Emperor of 40k didn't actually look half as impressive as he appeared, and that his golden armor and blinding aura were illusion.

* A meta one: where is the electricity gone in this movie ?!? In the original, the whole point of the rat is that they know complicated mechanics, especially electricity lighting and the likes. At the end of the movie they're on their way to Thorn Valley where they are supposed to rebuild their civilization but this time without stealing. And thenů in this sequel, the rats barely have any complicated or sophisticated machines. We see some cartoony clockwork in the Parade scene, and Mr Ages's lab still contains some chemistry items, but no electricity whatsoever !?! Granted, maybe that's because the writers of the sequel paid too much attention about the rat's remarks that "stealing electricity from the farmer is wrong", but couldn't they make electricity generators/dynamos using steam power or a dam on the river we ''do'' see in Thorn Valley ? And even if they can't, electricity aside, their Thorn Valley building still look too primitive and rural compared to what the rats were able to do under the Rosebush (the Council room and all that).
** And please, what I'm asking for is some sort of canon/plausible in-universe explanation, not "the writers didn't pay attention" or the likes.
[[/folder]]
19th Sep '15 6:04:56 PM falcon2484
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Added DiffLines:

* I recall hearing during the making-of featurette for ''IndianaJonesAndTheLastCrusade'' that the animal wranglers couldn't simply capture rats off the streets or from out in the wild; the rats they worked with had been specially bred and tamed, because street or wild animals generally carry diseases, lice, etc. So my question is this: would a science lab really capture feral rats off the streets of a city? Wouldn't they obtain their rats (and their other animals) from a breeder, to make sure they were tame and disease-free?
3rd Aug '15 3:51:30 AM tropower
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* So...The real NIHM. They don't really test on poor little animals, do they? If they do, please say they are smart enough to not stick their intellectually enhanced specimens in easily opened cages.

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* So...The real NIHM.NIMH. They don't really test on poor little animals, do they? If they do, please say they are smart enough to not stick their intellectually enhanced specimens in easily opened cages.
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