History Headscratchers / TheMatrix

18th Sep '17 7:43:12 AM Gess
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* A case of IfIWanterYouDead maybe? She could've engineered a situation we she had an upper hand over the zionists but didn't act upon hence proving that's she's not a threat.
8th Jul '17 12:49:02 PM nombretomado
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*** There's nothing to say that "Beyond" is set anywhere except an outlying neighborhood of the same city. If it was really set in Japan, why would the agents, who are treated as local authority figures, still be caucasian and look and act exactly like the movie agents, instead of something more geographically relevant? That would make sense if Yoko lives in a Japanese district of the city, not so much if she's supposed to be in another country thousands of miles away. Also, a character referring to "her aunt in France" means little. Did we see the aunt? Does the aunt really even exist? The Matrix is a false reality. It's a lie. That's the whole point. You can't trust anything inside it. The television shows what the machines want it to show, the newspapers have whatever headlines the machines want them to have, the maps look like whatever the machines like. The whole point is that none of it's real. So the only thing to be trusted is what we actually see, which is a gigantic city with lots of districts and the surrounding mountains. As for the Capitol building and Capitol City, for all we know the city itself is called Capitol City and thought of as a national capitol by the bluepills. The Matrix isn't just time travel into the 1990s like some people seem to treat it. It's a virtual ant farm, an MMORPG that mimics daily modern life. Given the choice between an entire, unseen virtual planet and what the movies actually showed us, which is the megacity and its surroundings, I prefer going with the megacity and its surroundings as the Matrix, especially since that fits with the theme of the Matrix as a mental prison, a bottle-world that drives some people mad. TheOtherWiki presents both explanations side by side, and the Matrix wikia goes with the CityInABottle one, so it's up to the viewer to decide which answer they personally prefer.

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*** There's nothing to say that "Beyond" is set anywhere except an outlying neighborhood of the same city. If it was really set in Japan, why would the agents, who are treated as local authority figures, still be caucasian and look and act exactly like the movie agents, instead of something more geographically relevant? That would make sense if Yoko lives in a Japanese district of the city, not so much if she's supposed to be in another country thousands of miles away. Also, a character referring to "her aunt in France" means little. Did we see the aunt? Does the aunt really even exist? The Matrix is a false reality. It's a lie. That's the whole point. You can't trust anything inside it. The television shows what the machines want it to show, the newspapers have whatever headlines the machines want them to have, the maps look like whatever the machines like. The whole point is that none of it's real. So the only thing to be trusted is what we actually see, which is a gigantic city with lots of districts and the surrounding mountains. As for the Capitol building and Capitol City, for all we know the city itself is called Capitol City and thought of as a national capitol by the bluepills. The Matrix isn't just time travel into the 1990s like some people seem to treat it. It's a virtual ant farm, an MMORPG that mimics daily modern life. Given the choice between an entire, unseen virtual planet and what the movies actually showed us, which is the megacity and its surroundings, I prefer going with the megacity and its surroundings as the Matrix, especially since that fits with the theme of the Matrix as a mental prison, a bottle-world that drives some people mad. TheOtherWiki Wiki/TheOtherWiki presents both explanations side by side, and the Matrix wikia goes with the CityInABottle one, so it's up to the viewer to decide which answer they personally prefer.
3rd Jul '17 3:11:56 PM DanteCorwyn
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[[/folder]]
[[folder: If you're not one of us you're one of them, and the Oracle]]
* Anyone else have issues with how the Oracle is presented? Morpheus's us vs them discussion points out just how dangerous anyone not unplugged in the matrix can be, but he doesn't have any issues talking to the oracle, who he must know doesn't exist in the free world. It's only in the second film that non-hostile programs are encountered, so why do any of the rebels willingly visit someone who has any chance of turning hostile at any minute?
21st Jun '17 5:24:12 AM hermanJnr
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** Uhm, no. The Machines are in control of the real world. Remember that? And always will be. And they obviously have no interest in giving up the spot of the dominant species. So any kind of rebuilding or repopulation will be severely limited and "free" humans will live under a constant threat of annihilation should they ever become an annoyance. That is, if it will be at all possible, since, I'd like to reiterate, ''the planet is dead''. There's no sun, meaning they cannot grow food. Simple as that.[[/folder]]

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** Uhm, no. The Machines are in control of the real world. Remember that? And always will be. And they obviously have no interest in giving up the spot of the dominant species. So any kind of rebuilding or repopulation will be severely limited and "free" humans will live under a constant threat of annihilation should they ever become an annoyance. That is, if it will be at all possible, since, I'd like to reiterate, ''the planet is dead''. There's no sun, meaning they cannot grow food. Simple as that.that.
** People are really overcomplicating the morality of the whole thing. The bluepills are *oblivious slaves* 100% in the control of the Machines, it's that simple. They can't even choose what side they want to be on; they're a zombie army for the Machines. That doesn't mean killing them is a nice choice, but it's the *only* choice if you're detected by the system as a Redpill and you don't want to die. Bluepills are plugged into a network that can fatally use them as pawns them whenever it likes by literally morphing them into an Agent. The true monsters morally are the Agents themselves: they happily use humans as substitute bodies and ditch them when they get killed without a moment's pause or care. Additionally, the cops, SWAT teams and soldiers are all shown to be completely subservient to the Agents and at no point do they ever disagree with what they are ordered to do (except for the rooftop chase scene where the Agents leap over a highway and the cops simply can't follow). When Neo walks into the lobby in the first movie and guns down the security staff, he is (at that point) undetected by the Agents in the Matrix. When word gets to the Agents they immediately begin morphing (and thus killing) Bluepill bodies near Neo and try to kill him - so his shooting spree is the only way to neutralise potential Agents before they can teleport to his position. The guards were basically dead men walking already.
[[/folder]]
20th May '17 1:44:42 PM nombretomado
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* There is a possibility that the entire concept was inspired by ValiantComics. In a cross-series storyline set in the future, sentient machines invade Earth and imprison humans with PsychicPowers in pods as an energy source. At least one such captive human is sufficiently-skilled as a [[{{Telepathy}} telepath]] that she is able to spy on the machines through the psychic network and give advice to her student in the real world. All of this was in the titles: ''Magnus: Robot Fighter'', ''Rai and the Future Force'' and ''Psi-Lords'' during the early-90's, before ''The Matrix'' movies were made.

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* There is a possibility that the entire concept was inspired by ValiantComics.Creator/ValiantComics. In a cross-series storyline set in the future, sentient machines invade Earth and imprison humans with PsychicPowers in pods as an energy source. At least one such captive human is sufficiently-skilled as a [[{{Telepathy}} telepath]] that she is able to spy on the machines through the psychic network and give advice to her student in the real world. All of this was in the titles: ''Magnus: Robot Fighter'', ''Rai and the Future Force'' and ''Psi-Lords'' during the early-90's, before ''The Matrix'' movies were made.
25th Apr '17 2:12:38 PM Pafman
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* My guess is that the machines, for all their intelligence and human-like behaviour are still machines...that were programmed to simulale an artificial reality. So, their first instict when they encounter a problem is "Let's create an artificial reality!" even if it doesn't quite make sense ("war with humans? Let´s create an artificial reality!" "we need more energy? Let´s create an artificial reality!"...you get the idea)
18th Apr '17 12:04:46 AM Borjigin
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*** This may go back to the original premise, pre executive meddling. The programs, at least the sentient ones, need to run on human brains. When an Agent possesses someone, he isn't possessing an image, he's overwriting a full human brain. He can't possess a house, or a cat, or a patch of empty space, because those are images running on much less processing power than a full human brain. An Agent simply can't be crammed into anything smaller than a human brain.
22nd Jan '17 9:59:43 AM FordPrefect
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** "How do the machines know what Tasty Wheat tasted like? Maybe they got it wrong... maybe they couldn't figure out what to make chicken taste like, which is why chicken tastes like everything." In the same vein, the machines might NOT have know what the real 90-s had been like (although I doubt even a global war would've destroyed ''all'' records, not to mention machines themselves had time before the war to learn and record human history), but if that's all you've known your entire life, how would you tell the difference? Besides, if Matrix was indeed created from the minds of people, the machines could've fed whatever knowledge of the past they had to the first Matricians, and they thought up the rest and filled in the gaps. I suppose it actually looks like the real deal in the movie, because it was easier to write and shoot it that way. It would've been nice though, if the world did have some minor discrepancies that could've clued the viewer about its tacit wrongness, or, hell, maybe there were, you just have to look really hard.

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** "How do the machines know what Tasty Wheat tasted like? Maybe they got it wrong... maybe they couldn't figure out what to make chicken taste like, which is why chicken tastes like everything." In the same vein, the machines might NOT have know known what the real 90-s had been like (although I doubt even a global war would've destroyed ''all'' records, not to mention machines themselves had time before the war to learn and record human history), but if that's all you've known your entire life, how would you tell the difference? Besides, if the Matrix was indeed created from the minds of people, the machines could've fed whatever knowledge of the past they had to the first Matricians, and they thought up the rest and filled in the gaps. I suppose it actually looks like the real deal in the movie, because it was easier to write and shoot it that way. It would've been nice though, if the world did have some minor discrepancies that could've clued the viewer about its tacit wrongness, or, hell, maybe there were, you just have to look really hard.
22nd Jan '17 9:58:19 AM FordPrefect
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*** Jumping far strains belief, but doesn't break it--look at basketball players, or long jumpers. The Agent's leap might be well past that, but people can rationalize it away. "In plain view of the whole city" is a massive exaggeration. They were on top of a skyscraper, the ''closest'' anyone could have possibly been was hundreds of meters away, and that's only if they were bothering to pay attention. And at that distance, all they'd see is, "Oh, that guy missed." The highway chase, well, chances are the people caught in that pileup were killed anyway, so it doesn't matter what they see, and at any rate thld be invincible. So what they did was simply take regular human stats, like strey were, again, acting pretty desperately.
*** That's because agents don't run on their ''own'' program, they run on the bodies of people (making it easy to swap out). If they made the body invincible, then every human couength and speed, and maxed them out while they operate.

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*** Jumping far strains belief, but doesn't break it--look at basketball players, or long jumpers. The Agent's leap might be well past that, but people can rationalize it away. "In plain view of the whole city" is a massive exaggeration. They were on top of a skyscraper, the ''closest'' anyone could have possibly been was hundreds of meters away, and that's only if they were bothering to pay attention. And at that distance, all they'd see is, "Oh, that guy missed." The highway chase, well, chances are the people caught in that pileup were killed anyway, so it doesn't matter what they see, and at any rate thld be invincible. So what they did was simply take regular human stats, like strey they were, again, acting pretty desperately.
*** That's because agents don't run on their ''own'' program, they run on the bodies of people (making it easy to swap out). If they made the body invincible, then every human couength would need potential super strength and speed, and maxed them out while they the agents operate.



*** Which brings us back to the original question - why not give the Agents endless bullets? That's not even conspicuous - how's gonna count them?

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*** Which brings us back to the original question - why not give the Agents endless bullets? That's not even conspicuous - how's who's gonna count them?
22nd Jan '17 9:54:35 AM FordPrefect
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*** Care to discuss the in-universe explanation for the presence in the ''Film/{{Gladiator}}'' movie such things as digital watches, a guy in jeans and a plane trail in the sky? Some things are just blunders, whether visual or conceptual. In this case they pretty much admit that it is a blunder. There cannot be an in-universe explanation for a blunder, because it was not supposed to be there at all. It's a glitch. In the "real" part of the movie world. Funny, I think, I just accidentally prooved that the "real" world ''was'' another layer of the Matrix.

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*** Care to discuss the in-universe explanation for the presence in the ''Film/{{Gladiator}}'' movie such things as digital watches, a guy in jeans and a plane trail in the sky? Some things are just blunders, whether visual or conceptual. In this case they pretty much admit that it is a blunder. There cannot be an in-universe explanation for a blunder, because it was not supposed to be there at all. It's a glitch. In the "real" part of the movie world. Funny, I think, I just accidentally prooved proved that the "real" world ''was'' another layer of the Matrix.



** The in-universe explanation that doesn't rely on people (or machines) being stupid, is that the whole premise is not correctly interpreted by the redpills. Machines never enslaved humanity and are not malicious at all. Matrix is run ''by'' humans and is designed as a refuge for the humakind after the world war had desolated the planet (the "sky burning" was some nano-wepon GoneHorriblyWrong). Naturally, all the regular Matricians had their memories of the pre-Matrix events erased, so that they could lead normal lives. However, because the Matrix is created by the neurological network of the minds of its dwellers, it's natural laws rely on the conformity of mind to work. Some people are less susceptable and start feeling that "something is wrong". If left unchecked, they might proove dangerous to the society, but the leaders are unwilling to simply murder them and instead chose to remove them from the Matrix (because no prison inside could hold them). And the whole "Human rebellion" ruse was created to give the exiles something to do and also to enlist them into searching for other anomalies.

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** The in-universe explanation that doesn't rely on people (or machines) being stupid, is that the whole premise is not correctly interpreted by the redpills. Machines never enslaved humanity and are not malicious at all. Matrix is run ''by'' humans and is designed as a refuge for the humakind after the world war had desolated the planet (the "sky burning" was some nano-wepon GoneHorriblyWrong). Naturally, all the regular Matricians had their memories of the pre-Matrix events erased, so that they could lead normal lives. However, because the Matrix is created by the neurological network of the minds of its dwellers, it's natural laws rely on the conformity of mind to work. Some people are less susceptable and start feeling that "something is wrong". If left unchecked, they might proove prove dangerous to the society, but the leaders are unwilling to simply murder them and instead chose to remove them from the Matrix (because no prison inside could hold them). And the whole "Human rebellion" ruse was created to give the exiles something to do and also to enlist them into searching for other anomalies.



** Except that the machines have been deling with the Resistance for decades. They ''know'' that's how they free new members. Signals or not, if the machines were serious about all this, they would've ordered the caretaker to snap each human's neck, wether it's dead or not.

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** Except that the machines have been deling dealing with the Resistance for decades. They ''know'' that's how they free new members. Signals or not, if the machines were serious about all this, they would've ordered the caretaker to snap each human's neck, wether whether it's dead or not.



** Come on. It had already grabbed him by the neck. If it was capable of that, no way it couldn't have squizzed just a little tighter and crush his windpipe. And no, there's no way Machines don't know how the Zionists get their recruits out, because the caretaker drone was there when Neo was flushed. Extraction could only happen afterwards.

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** Come on. It had already grabbed him by the neck. If it was capable of that, no way it couldn't have squizzed squeezed just a little tighter and crush crushed his windpipe. And no, there's no way Machines don't know how the Zionists get their recruits out, because the caretaker drone was there when Neo was flushed. Extraction could only happen afterwards.
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