History Headscratchers / TheLionKing

18th Aug '16 6:35:56 AM ben9192
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[[WMG: Why does Kiara's reflection only show half her face?]]
During "We are One" Kiara looks at her reflection in the water, the reflection of her face is half shown, and then it happens again in "Love Will Find a Way" but there is no explanation as to why Kiara has this happen to her, is it meant to be symbolism or something else I missed?



[[WMG:When there's the stand-off between Zira and Simba and the lionesses after Kovu and Kiara first meet, Zira gets pretty close to Simba and Kiara.]]
Even with as fast as everyone could move, she could have done something to at least cripple Kiara, if not kill her or injure Simba, so why is there no threatening growls or orders of "Get back!"?
* Because if Zira had attacked Kiara, Simba would have killed her and Kovu right there, and her plans for revenge would have been lost. And if she had attacked Simba instead, the other lionesses, including Nala, would have attacked her and killed her. It was to her advantage to not make any movements right there and instead, wait for the right moment to attack (that is, for Kovu to grow up, get close to Simba and then kill him).
* Actually, Zira was quite eager to attack Simba in that scene until she noticed the other lionesses there. I think both parties were well aware Zira was too smart to launch an attack when she was outnumbered.
* Zira (a malnourished lioness) was not only outnumbered, but outmuscled; had she actually gone for Kiara, Simba (a healthy male) and Nala (a healthy lioness) would likely ''both'' go for her. Considering the way lions fight, Zira's face would have been a bloody mess if she actually tried to kill the cub of the leading pair, especially if she managed to wound Kiara at all.

[[WMG:Simba acknowledges that Kiara is like him and he got into a lot of trouble.]]
So why does he send Timon and Pumbaa after her, since (a) they can't really fight so well, and (b) they're probably going to do something to get noticed?
Why not send one of the lionesses, who could probably stay hidden and could put up a fight against anything that might harm Kiara?
* Perhaps he's willing to let her get into just a ''little'' bit of trouble. He knows from experience that an attempt to completely restrict her will not work, so he just sends those two to keep her out of real danger as opposed to mere mischief.
* But how could they keep her out of real danger? I mean, they obviously couldn't catch up to her if she just took off, and they can't really fight (except for Pumbaa's special ability), so what would happen if, say, an Outlander was trespassing, saw her, and decided to attack or something?
** Excuse me, in the first movie Pumbaa lays out a couple of hyenas, and that's without his stench, he can fight if he has to.
* Simba trusts them: Timon and Pumbaa are his closest friends and were somehow able to keep him alive to adulthood, so the have to have SOME kind of survival skill. They've got HonoraryUncle status for Kiara so they might be able to talk her out of something really stupid. If nothing else, they'd be able to find him if she got in over her head.
* Mundane solution: the audience knew Timon and Pumbaa, so the filmmakers decided to allow them more screentime in this manner as opposed to using a background character. Kind of a shame, as giving one of the lionesses greater characterization would have given the pride as a whole more life in the eyes of the viewers.



[[WMG:How could Scar have hand-picked Kovu to be his heir when he (assumedly) wasn't born until after Scar had died?]]
During the confrontation after Kovu and Kiara meet, Zira says Kovu was hand-chosen by Scar AND the last kitten to be born before her group was banished. Now, this implies that they left after Scar was killed. Kovu is obviously the same age as Kiara, within a few months, since he's the same size and cats - lions - grow at a fairly different rate after the first few months, depending on gender. I'm guessing Simba took a few months to get the Pride Lands back to normal before he could focus on taking care of any possible treachery within the pride - this is assuming that at the end of the first movie, the Pride Lands going back to being green takes a few months after he becomes king, and the fade is just a time-skip shown in one shot. So, how could Scar have hand-picked Kovu to be his heir when he (assumedly) wasn't born until after Scar had died?
* Scar could have said, 'The next cub who is born will be my heir' and Zira is exaggerating, or Zira could just be flat-out lying (to herself, even).
* Alternatively, none of the disloyal lionesses gave birth after Simba took power. Kovu may have been born not long before Simba's return.
* Maybe Nala and Simba really did Feel the Love that Night and Nala was already pregnant by the time they got back. Kovu could have either been just born or Zira was nearly due (in which case Scar had told her that this baby would be heir). Either one is a good reason why we didn't see her in the fight; in the former she couldn't risk leaving Kovu alone, in the latter she couldn't risk the baby getting hurt.
** As far as Simba and Nala "[[UnusualEuphemism feeling the love that night]]" goes, it [[Disney/LadyAndTheTramp wouldn't be the first time]] [[GettingCrapPastTheRadar Disney implied something like that]].
*** The [[WordOfGod directors' commentary]] actually does confirm that Simba and Nala were "feeling the love that night" during that scene. While it isn't confirmed she actually got pregnant their first time, the fact we see a cub at the end of the movie would seem to suggest she did. In which case, if Zira was indeed already pregnant when Simba returned to overthrow Scar, she and Nala would have had their cubs close together (Kovu being born first would explain why he was a little bigger and bulkier) and the passage of time would allow for the dry season to end, the herds to return, and the land to recover. In which case, Scar could indeed have said her next cub would be his heir before he died.

[[WMG:Why are TERMITES bothering Nuka? Shouldn't it be fleas?]]
* Since he lives in a termite mound, they just happen to be crawling over him all the time.
** Termites have a bite like you wouldn't believe too.

[[WMG:Who was Kiara supposed to hook up with if she hadn't met Kovu?]]
Okay, so... There's no male cubs shown in the Pride Lands pride during the second movie. Ever. Not even in the background. So... who would ensure more cubs if Simba died?
* Well, that was a lucky break then, wasn't it?
* Well, another thing I just realized. There's no other cubs shown at all. It's no wonder she's so {{rebellious| princess}} - she never really had any friends besides Timon and Pumbaa, who were more her babysitters than anything.
** A RebelliousPrincess who [[Disney/{{Aladdin}} never had any real friends]], huh?
* I always imagined matured male lions who weren't in line for the kingship would go off to find prides in this very situation. Or, if they were too old for the queen-to-be, they'd mate with one of the other lionesses and the first son to be produced would marry the queen.
* Given how there's the relatively common theory that Nala was a "gift" from another pride, Simba could have gone and found a pride that had a lot of male cubs in it and [[ArrangedMarriage arranged a marriage for Kiara]].



[[WMG:Do Nala's eyes change colors or was it a coloring mistake?]]
Minor irk, but I re-watched the original movie and ''Simba's Pride'' the other day out of boredom, and I noticed Nala had green eyes in the original but has blue eyes in ''Simba's Pride''.
* Definitely a mistake. ''Simba's Pride'' had some notable differences in coloring compared to the original -- Timon, for example, looks like he's spent too much time in the sun and gotten an impressive tan after the original movie.
** Simba's nose also changed color. In ''The Lion King'' it's orange, but in ''Simba's Pride'' it's turned purple-pink. I know that a lion SHOULD have a pinkish nose, but couple it with the gradient on his muzzle and it makes him look like he has a cold.
*** Much of the color palette of LK2 is pinkish. Not a change of which this troper is fond.
*** Looking at some screenshots, Simba's nose is pink in the original film and a darker purple-pink in the sequel, which leads to some FridgeBrilliance as lions' noses in real life ''do'' get darker as they age. If Disney was going this consciously, Simba's nose would be close to black a few years down the line.
* Even in the first movie, sometimes it looks like Nala's eyes are blue instead of green. Maybe it was just a mistake at first, but then the animators decided to just go with it for the second movie.
** Eyes can look different colours depending on what light they're in; for example, a light blue eye can look almost white if in the right lighting. Considering Nala's eyes are already a aquamarine-ish shade, under the right lighting it's reasonable to assume that they could end up looking more green or more blue. Doesn't exactly explain the sudden art shift in ''Simba's Pride'', but that was likely due to differences in animators and modelers.









[[WMG:Where did the Hyenas go?]]
It's vaguely mentioned that they ran away after Scars fall from power, but where did they go? Presumably such a massive population cant just dissapear into the wilderness.
* Maybe they dispersed into smaller groups? Hyena clans often do that.
* During the battle from pride rock, a large group is seen fleeing so those are the Hyenas that ran off. Bunzai, Sheenzi, and Ed however perished in the fire with the ones that remained after killing Scar. Come on, you don't honestly think Disney would allow them too live after [[spoiler:being instrumental in Mufasa's death and oh I don't know....EATING HIS CORPSE AFTERWARDS?]]
** They ate Mufasa's corpse?
*** Mix-ups aside (since, well, they did eat SCAR), they probably DID consume Mufasa's remains after Banzai recovered from his tumble into the bramble patch. That's a perfectly good dead lion laying RIGHT THERE. The hyenas, gluttons such as they are, aren't gonna let that go to waste. That's an awesome snack after a job well done, and Scar most likely deemed it a suitable reward (both to let the hyenas feast, and to ''watch'' them eat his dead brother. He seems like the sort of sick son of a bitch).
** The trio did not perish.
** It's unlikely the hyenas were killed in the fire given that it started raining only moments afterward and the fires were extinguished very quickly. Sure they might have gotten singed a bit, but there's no evidence that they all died. And yes, Disney commonly does allow the lesser villains to live.
* The hyenas most likely left the Pride Lands for good in search of new territory. They probably realized things weren't going to get any better for them staying there, and they feared the lions might retaliate against them some time in the future.



[[WMG: In the sequel, did Vitani really expect Kovu to attack Simba right on the Pride Rock, in front of the cave where all the dozens of his pride's lionesses were?]]
* I guess she would if Kovu was trained to the point he could have just jumped and snapped Simba's neck in a second before the lionesses would even have known, but judging by how ridiculously easy he got defeated when trying to defend Simba from Zira's pride, it doesn't sound very likely.
** Even if he could have killed Simba instantly, which is unlikely no matter how skilled he is, Kovu would have almost no prayer of getting away alive. As Zira's plan, as far as I understood it, involved Kovu becoming king after a successful assassination, doing something suicidal would put Zira's followers in a very precarious position. Nuka, the only adult male in the group, besides Kovu, that we know of is not exactly a model lion. He'd be an easy kill for a rogue. Should Zira and her followers drive off the rogue or kill him, they would then be without a king, more or less dooming the pride. In short, Vitani was not thinking very clearly at all.
*** Yeah, I was kind of wondering about that too...Vitani jumped the gun bigtime there, methinks. Kovu couldn't possibly have killed Simba before the lionesses heard the commotion and came out to attack him, if he could beat Simba one-on-one at all...after all, her lionesses were all trained killers too, just like Kovu (though he probably had special training) and all of them couldn't take him down in one go.




[[WMG: Never found the body??]]
In the sequel, how could Simba think that Kovu set him up for an ambush? They were at a place that Simba led them to, having a talk that Simba instigated. Kovu hadn't planned on being alone with him at all.
* Simple, Simba's paranoid. Think about it, he's alone in the wilds with a younger and probably fitter lion who he knows has been trained practically from birth to assassinate him and take his place then suddenly, from out of nowhere, they're surrounded by this lion's pride who are out for his blood because he banished them for supporting his tyrant of an uncle. It wouldn't be that difficult for Simba to jump to the conclusion that Kovu could have sent word to a pride member of his progress within the pride and had arranged for the rest of the pride to be on standby should he ever corner Simba alone. I mean, Kovu is shown to sleep outside alone while the rest of the pride are sleeping soundly inside the cave, it wouldn't have been that difficult for him to sneak off in the middle of the night, meet Vitani or another lioness, update them of his progress and tell them to have the pride waiting then sneak back to Priderock before the sun rose and everyone woke up again.



[[WMG: Why does Zira assume that Kovu will be king just because he marries Kiara?]]
Why would Kovu inherit Simba's throne? He's not a direct relative, he's got no right to succeed Simba, Kiara does. Wouldn't Kovu be styled Prince Kovu while Kiara is styled Queen Kiara?

Using the British royal family here, since that's the one I'm most familiar with and because it's the best parallel to this situation. There's a reason that Prince Philip is not king- because he would outrank the Queen, who is the successor to her father's throne, much like Kiara should be to Simba's.
** Because lions are not the same as British royals. Lion prides are always headed by a male.
* The plan actually wasn't for Kovu to marry Kiara, but rather to get close to her and, at the same time, to get close to Simba and gaining his trust, so he could have a chance of being alone with Simba and kill him. Kovu would probably become the next king because of him killing the former one, like in real life.
** Yeah, Zira never planned for Kovu to actually marry Kiara to become king...remember in her lullaby song, she mentions having 'his daughter squealing in my grasp', indicating she wants to murder Kiara herself. Zira just wanted Kovu to get close to Kiara so he could get close to Simba and kill him.







[[WMG: What are they looking at?!]]

Here's a random one: At the end of "We Are One" in Simba's Pride, Kiara has a really intense stare at... something. Simba notices, follows her gaze, and has an expression that's all, "Oh. Heh." But no matter how many times I've looked for anything up there at the edge of Pride Rock, I see absolutely nothing. What caught her attention, and if it's nothing, why in the WORLD did they animate it that way?
* This is just guesswork, but they were looking up at Pride Rock itself. The whole song is about how Kiara and Simba are one because of their relation, thus their royalty, but Kiara is rebellious against ruling the pride Lands when Simba dies because in her words prior to the song, she doesn't even want to be Queen because it's not fun. Simba was looking up at Pride Rock, and she looked upset because it was all set in stone according to him. I honestly think that 'Oh. Heh.' expression was because he understood what she looked upset about and tried to reassure her that it was who she was positively (which she doesn't really want since she told Timon and Pumbaa, quite annoyed, that a princess was only half of who she was and can't think of an answer when asked what's the other half). Again, just guessing but I saw the movie recently for a bit of nostalgia and wondered that myself.
* The above has it more or less right. Remember, Kiara at this point is characterized somewhat by a fear of bowing to destiny and losing her own individuality in the process. While Simba is trying to reassure her, she sees his face in profile with Pride Rock looming large behind him. Remember that Pride Rock is much more than just the lions' home. It's a symbol, like a palace or a throne, or even the White House. Kind of an oppressive reminder of what fate had in store for her down the road. Simba sees her looking rather distressed at something, turns, sees Pride Rock and, with surprising insight, gleans what she saw and tries to reassure her again, even if he probably chose the exact wrong thing to say.




[[WMG:Kopa and Vitani]]
This is a fanon thing, obviously. I don't get how Kopa and Vitani could have been the same age. I can accept Nuka and Kopa but not Vitani. She seems too young come her first appearance, once Kiara is born.
* Well, you could chalk appearances up to being malnourished. I've never heard this fan theory before. Most of the ones I've heard of involved Kopa and Kiara being twins. In that case Vitani should be older than Kopa.



[[WMG: The hunting scene with Kovu and Kiara]]
* I know that the trilogy has never been concerned with being accurate, but still...A male lion teaching a lioness to hunt. How does that work? (Maybe Kovu was trained to hunt because the Outlands were so prey-scarce, but he still wouldn't know how to catch big prey. "Mother, I caught some fieldmice for your dinner.")
** The concepts used to catch small prey (stealth, speed, accuracy of attack) are the same as for catching larger prey. Most of Kiara's problems with hunting aren't things Kovu can't already do better. He also said he could do better than her so she's daring him to prove it. She's also learning how to hunt alone, which Kovu would naturally be better at explaining than one of the lionesses, who almost always work in a group.
** Male lions do hunt. And they mainly hunt either when game is scarce or to attack very large prey.


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18th Aug '16 4:03:34 AM ben9192
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* When Mufasa's spirit appears to Simba, he tells him that he must return and take his place in the Circle of Life. But while he had his son's attention, why didn't he just say, "Oh by the way, Scar killed me, not you"? I'm assuming it was something Simba needed to learn on his own for the sake of CharacterDevelopment.

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* When Mufasa's spirit appears to Simba, he tells him that he must return and take his place in the Circle of Life. But But, while he had his son's attention, why didn't he just say, "Oh by the way, Scar killed me, not you"? I'm assuming it was something Simba needed to learn on his own for the sake of CharacterDevelopment.CharacterDevelopment, but still...




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** I think the fact of whether the ghost of Mufasa is real or just a figment of Simba’s imagination is voluntarily ambiguous, and left to the viewer’s interpretation. However, since he didn’t tell him about his death, one may presume that it is probably just a hallucination (fits in the context of Simba’s disarray, done to make him take the good decision). However, the problem is the [[ContinuitySnarl sequels decided he was real]]: on a more subtle way with Simba’s Pride, and taken UpToEleven in the new series TheLionGuard, where Kion chats with him from times to times. So, yeah, it is retroactively a big problem for the Lion King, because there is no clue why he suddenly shows himself this one night, and not long before, like e.g…. when Pridelands were still a bit preserved and the population wasn’t all dead. It is not only Simba’s business, all the country is concerned. If Mufasa is really in the stars, he bears a big part of the guilt by his silence, along with Scar who is directly responsible.

29th Jul '16 8:14:10 AM AlexDKZ
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* It follows the same nonsensical reasoning that people use when writing profanities and changing some letters with random symbols (IE: F**K) to pretend they haven't actually used the bad word.
29th Jul '16 8:08:04 AM AlexDKZ
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** That's a pretty absurd comparision. A country needs a good government to run efficently. Trees and grass don't need lions to grow.
23rd Jun '16 3:15:19 PM Taxima
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* I doubt anyone from that distance would be able to clearly hear Scar's voice or even make out what words are being made, so it just comes back as noise. Then you could just write off the red lights as weird activity in the rocks out there.







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* I think part way through Scar's reign of overhunting, the Pridelands just happened to be hit by a bad drought. If Mufasa were still king at the time, he might have had the presence of mind to implement rationing to preserve the vegetation and balance, but the selfish Scar wouldn't put in enough forethought which lead to the desolation.



** It's a legend, not something unique to the film, and according to the legend elephants go there to die. Many of those bones are far to big to be carried there.

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** It's a legend, not something unique to the film, and according to the legend elephants go there to die. Many of those bones are far to too big to be carried there.
16th Jun '16 3:41:10 AM Snicka
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* Also, the scene is simply [[RuleOfFunny funnier]] with Timon stopping Pumbaa saying the word than it was if Pumbaa simply said the word.
18th May '16 8:52:08 PM Everdream
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* I would assume it's to avoid a PG rating for rude humor. Doesn't make logical sense to me for the Rating Board to overlook blatant fart jokes just because the word fart is not used and farting is not shown, but they can and did for ''The Lion King'' and other movies, so this tactic works. That's what GettingCrapPastTheRadar is all about; implying things not too overtly so the Rating Board will overlook or ignore it.

to:

* I would assume it's to avoid a PG rating for rude toilet humor. Doesn't make logical sense to me for the Rating Board to overlook blatant fart jokes just because the word fart is not used and farting is not shown, but they can and did for ''The Lion King'' and other movies, so this tactic works. That's what GettingCrapPastTheRadar is all about; implying things not too overtly so the Rating Board will overlook or ignore it.
18th May '16 8:50:25 PM Everdream
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* I would assume it's to avoid a PG rating for rude humor. Doesn't make logical sense to me for the Rating Board to overlook blatant fart jokes just because the word fart is not used and farting is not shown, but they can and did for ''The Lion King'' and other movies, so this tactic works. That's what GettingCrapPastTheRadar is all about; implying things not overtly so the Rating Board will overlook or ignore it.

to:

* I would assume it's to avoid a PG rating for rude humor. Doesn't make logical sense to me for the Rating Board to overlook blatant fart jokes just because the word fart is not used and farting is not shown, but they can and did for ''The Lion King'' and other movies, so this tactic works. That's what GettingCrapPastTheRadar is all about; implying things not too overtly so the Rating Board will overlook or ignore it.
18th May '16 8:49:22 PM Everdream
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* I would assume it's to avoid a PG rating for rude humor. Doesn't make logical sense to me for the Rating Board to overlook blatant fart jokes just because the word fart is not used and farting is not shown, but they can and did for ''The Lion King,'' so this tactic works. That's what GettingCrapPastTheRadar is all about; implying things not overtly so the Rating Board will overlook or ignore it.

to:

* I would assume it's to avoid a PG rating for rude humor. Doesn't make logical sense to me for the Rating Board to overlook blatant fart jokes just because the word fart is not used and farting is not shown, but they can and did for ''The Lion King,'' King'' and other movies, so this tactic works. That's what GettingCrapPastTheRadar is all about; implying things not overtly so the Rating Board will overlook or ignore it.
18th May '16 8:48:43 PM Everdream
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* I would assume it's to avoid a PG rating for rude humor. Doesn't make logical sense to me for the Rating Board to overlook blatant fart jokes just because the word fart is not used and farting is not shown, but they can and did for ''The Lion King,'' so this tactic works. That's what GettingCrapPastTheRadar is all about; implying things not overtly so the Rating Board will overlook it.

to:

* I would assume it's to avoid a PG rating for rude humor. Doesn't make logical sense to me for the Rating Board to overlook blatant fart jokes just because the word fart is not used and farting is not shown, but they can and did for ''The Lion King,'' so this tactic works. That's what GettingCrapPastTheRadar is all about; implying things not overtly so the Rating Board will overlook or ignore it.
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