History Headscratchers / TheLegendOfZelda

2nd Sep '17 2:32:52 PM HalcyonDayz
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* It's commonly assumed that OOT Link is 10 as a child and 17 as an adult, but there is [[WordofDante no official source]] stating this. The official age is 12 as a child and 19 as an adult, based on Toon Link's trophy data in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosBrawl'', which states he was 12 when he first received the Hero's Garb. As we know from TWW that this occurred on the day he became the same age as OOT Link, that means the latter was 12 as well (and 19 as an adult). Where is the 10/17 figure coming from?

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* It's commonly assumed that OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' Link is 10 as a child and 17 as an adult, but there is [[WordofDante no official source]] stating this. The official age is 12 as a child and 19 as an adult, based on Toon Link's trophy data in ''VideoGame/SuperSmashBrosBrawl'', which states he was 12 when he first received the Hero's Garb. As we know from TWW that this occurred on the day he became the same age as OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' Link, that means the latter was 12 as well (and 19 as an adult). Where is the 10/17 figure coming from?



** Not true. Link's OOT age is confirmed to be 8, and then 15 for adult Link. Link being 12 in WW is because it's a legend, not a fact that the hero was older. Never mind that the Hero in WW is just the Adult Link, which saved them. So if WW is used as reasoning at all, Young Link was 5 years old in [=OoT=].

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** Not true. Link's OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' age is confirmed to be 8, and then 15 for adult Link. Link being 12 in WW is because it's a legend, not a fact that the hero was older. Never mind that the Hero in WW is just the Adult Link, which saved them. So if WW is used as reasoning at all, Young Link was 5 years old in [=OoT=].



### SSB did redesign Sheik to be unambiguously female, but that is SSB-verse, so taking that into continuity, it would mean Zelda fights Mario/Ness/Ganondorf/Link/Luigi in a battle of ages. Then again, you COULD argue that the hidden Arwing in OOT is canon. Anyway, the whole "androgynous male" argument held a lot more weight in 1998, as it was post-FFVII, which had been released a year before. What you could argue is that 3DS did change the model/use the SSB model, but that would mean that such things like the Stone of Agony would be in ContinuityLockout.

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### SSB did redesign Sheik to be unambiguously female, but that is SSB-verse, so taking that into continuity, it would mean Zelda fights Mario/Ness/Ganondorf/Link/Luigi in a battle of ages. Then again, you COULD argue that the hidden Arwing in OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' is canon. Anyway, the whole "androgynous male" argument held a lot more weight in 1998, as it was post-FFVII, which had been released a year before. What you could argue is that 3DS did change the model/use the SSB model, but that would mean that such things like the Stone of Agony would be in ContinuityLockout.



** To this troper, Sheik has always been female. It is obvious that magic is used to disguise herself as a male. The question is how far has her magic gone. In game, Sheik seems to be the same as Zelda personality wise. She still has feminine features. But the added masculine features mask the features for those not wary enough. Pay attention and the ambiguity becomes less and hints are dropped. Yes she becomes stronger looking, but women can be stronger, that is not strange. Her magic could also make her voice a bit deeper, and it does, but there is still a feminine quality to it. I see no reason for how a complete biological sex change makes her a better disguise. It is unnecessary in my eyes. Furthermore, because she seems exactly the same personality wise, which a sex change would at least alter a bit. She hasn't created an entirely different consciousness, it is always Zelda behind that disguise. Therefore I conclude at least in my mind Sheik is Zelda, therefor Sheik is female. Some may say that Sheik is more masculine than Zelda. I say that Magic is the cause and that it is much less of a stretch to believe Zelda made herself more masculine than to believe Zelda completely changed her sex and created an entirely new consciousness. Nintendo has stated several times that Sheik is female in SSB which is something they made or had influence in and they heavily implied Sheik was female in OOT 3d by making her more slender and feminine. By contrast. Sheik is only called male once in the game, by someone who may know better than to call Sheik female since it is obvious Sheik was meant to look male for disguise purposes. Other than that, there is the manga, which seems dubious when it comes to whether it is canon. It is essentially a third party production and if it is considered canon, then the Zelda cartoon is just as canonical.

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** To this troper, Sheik has always been female. It is obvious that magic is used to disguise herself as a male. The question is how far has her magic gone. In game, Sheik seems to be the same as Zelda personality wise. She still has feminine features. But the added masculine features mask the features for those not wary enough. Pay attention and the ambiguity becomes less and hints are dropped. Yes she becomes stronger looking, but women can be stronger, that is not strange. Her magic could also make her voice a bit deeper, and it does, but there is still a feminine quality to it. I see no reason for how a complete biological sex change makes her a better disguise. It is unnecessary in my eyes. Furthermore, because she seems exactly the same personality wise, which a sex change would at least alter a bit. She hasn't created an entirely different consciousness, it is always Zelda behind that disguise. Therefore I conclude at least in my mind Sheik is Zelda, therefor Sheik is female. Some may say that Sheik is more masculine than Zelda. I say that Magic is the cause and that it is much less of a stretch to believe Zelda made herself more masculine than to believe Zelda completely changed her sex and created an entirely new consciousness. Nintendo has stated several times that Sheik is female in SSB which is something they made or had influence in and they heavily implied Sheik was female in OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' 3d by making her more slender and feminine. By contrast. Sheik is only called male once in the game, by someone who may know better than to call Sheik female since it is obvious Sheik was meant to look male for disguise purposes. Other than that, there is the manga, which seems dubious when it comes to whether it is canon. It is essentially a third party production and if it is considered canon, then the Zelda cartoon is just as canonical.



** 2)If we look at ''OOT'' in the context of the sequels, we have two different endings which happen simultaneously in different endings and have different outcomes. Back in the past, Link informed the King of Hyrule about the threat of Ganondorf [[note]]If you're having trouble with the idea that the reigning monarch would believe the counsel of a 12-year-old boy, I would draw your attention to the ''glowing'' tattoo of the Triforce of Courage on his left hand[[/note]], and the whole issue was promptly nipped in the bud. ''Twilight Princess'' would follow. The future, however, is far bleaker; for now, Ganondorf is gone (emphasis on "for now") and Hyrule can finally rebuild. As thanks, Zelda sent Link home to his original time, effectively removing ''any'' trace of him from the timeline other than word of mouth, as his legend will attest. ''The Wind Waker'' would follow. Ganondorf would escape from his imprisonment to wreak havoc once more and fulfill the oath he swore to exterminate the descendants of his captors. "''But the hero did not appear.''" Why? Because ''he wasn't there''. Zelda sent him home. Neither he nor any descendants he may have had were present to stand in Ganondorf's way, for they simply did not ''exist''. Thus, in a truly majestic display of a complete and utter lack of foresight, Princess Zelda singlehandedly doomed her kingdom and all its peoples to destruction, ruin, and ultimately, extinction.

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** 2)If we look at ''OOT'' ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' in the context of the sequels, we have two different endings which happen simultaneously in different endings and have different outcomes. Back in the past, Link informed the King of Hyrule about the threat of Ganondorf [[note]]If you're having trouble with the idea that the reigning monarch would believe the counsel of a 12-year-old boy, I would draw your attention to the ''glowing'' tattoo of the Triforce of Courage on his left hand[[/note]], and the whole issue was promptly nipped in the bud. ''Twilight Princess'' would follow. The future, however, is far bleaker; for now, Ganondorf is gone (emphasis on "for now") and Hyrule can finally rebuild. As thanks, Zelda sent Link home to his original time, effectively removing ''any'' trace of him from the timeline other than word of mouth, as his legend will attest. ''The Wind Waker'' would follow. Ganondorf would escape from his imprisonment to wreak havoc once more and fulfill the oath he swore to exterminate the descendants of his captors. "''But the hero did not appear.''" Why? Because ''he wasn't there''. Zelda sent him home. Neither he nor any descendants he may have had were present to stand in Ganondorf's way, for they simply did not ''exist''. Thus, in a truly majestic display of a complete and utter lack of foresight, Princess Zelda singlehandedly doomed her kingdom and all its peoples to destruction, ruin, and ultimately, extinction.



** The games with time travel were OOT, MM, OOA, and TP. One of the worst examples is when you come upon a locked door with an unreachable switch in the past, go to the future, flip the switch, and return to the past. Where the door is now unlocked. Somehow. At some point in OOA, you come upon Symmetry City, which is in ruins. So you go back in time and find that the city is collapsing due to an artifact called the tuni nut being damaged. Once you fix it and return to the present, the entire city is in pristine condition... But in OOT, changes made to the past are seen in the future even "before" you make them, so if there was a consistent logic, Symmetry City should have been fine when you got there.
** Some changes in OOT only occur after you initate them in the past (for example, the floating plants that sprout from the magic beans) while others are present from the get go. There is clearly no attempt to keep the mechanics straight and they just go with whatever provides the better gameplay/plot.

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** The games with time travel were OOT, [=OOT=], MM, OOA, and TP. One of the worst examples is when you come upon a locked door with an unreachable switch in the past, go to the future, flip the switch, and return to the past. Where the door is now unlocked. Somehow. At some point in OOA, you come upon Symmetry City, which is in ruins. So you go back in time and find that the city is collapsing due to an artifact called the tuni nut being damaged. Once you fix it and return to the present, the entire city is in pristine condition... But in OOT, ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'', changes made to the past are seen in the future even "before" you make them, so if there was a consistent logic, Symmetry City should have been fine when you got there.
** Some changes in OOT [=OOT=] only occur after you initate them in the past (for example, the floating plants that sprout from the magic beans) while others are present from the get go. There is clearly no attempt to keep the mechanics straight and they just go with whatever provides the better gameplay/plot.



** OOT: The sword needed to have an adult wielder, so it sealed Link away for seven years. Putting the sword back acts like it had never been drawn. MM, a previously useless song has a more powerful effect to go back in time in an alternate dimension. OOA a harp is given that power, although some functions are circumstantial. TP only features one instance of time travel, and that's better explained as it being a memory of the temple.

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** OOT: ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'': The sword needed to have an adult wielder, so it sealed Link away for seven years. Putting the sword back acts like it had never been drawn. MM, a previously useless song has a more powerful effect to go back in time in an alternate dimension. OOA a harp is given that power, although some functions are circumstantial. TP only features one instance of time travel, and that's better explained as it being a memory of the temple.



** From what I gathered, Link and Zelda aren't the same Link and Zelda in every game, but new Links and New Zeldas that the goddesses spawn everytime Ganondorf shows his head (Or some other great evil). Link has only been the same Link in direct Sequels (OoT Link and MM Link, [=LoZ=] 1 Link and [=LoZ=] 2 Link , 4S Link and MC Link, and WW Link and PH Link), and every other time there's been a Link they were completely different Links. Same applies to Zelda.

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** From what I gathered, Link and Zelda aren't the same Link and Zelda in every game, but new Links and New Zeldas that the goddesses spawn everytime Ganondorf shows his head (Or some other great evil). Link has only been the same Link in direct Sequels (OoT ([=OoT=] Link and MM Link, [=LoZ=] 1 Link and [=LoZ=] 2 Link , 4S Link and MC Link, and WW Link and PH Link), and every other time there's been a Link they were completely different Links. Same applies to Zelda.



* Can there be Sheiks outside of the OOT Zelda's lifetime? Apparently she was supposed to be in TP but wasn't, so I suppose she can be.

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* Can there be Sheiks outside of the OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' Zelda's lifetime? Apparently she was supposed to be in TP but wasn't, so I suppose she can be.



** Well, the original question was whether or not there could be a Sheik outside of OOT Zelda's lifetime. Since Sheik is a disguise (be it sex change or simple mask)...yeah, technically ''anyone'' could "become" Sheik.

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** Well, the original question was whether or not there could be a Sheik outside of OOT [=OOT=] Zelda's lifetime. Since Sheik is a disguise (be it sex change or simple mask)...yeah, technically ''anyone'' could "become" Sheik.



* Do Kokori die on their own? Are those shape shifting ones in WW the same ones from OOT? If so, why don't they change back? How do they even shape shift? I suppose they do die, because new ones are born with no apparent overpopulation or such, and I doubt in OOT Kokori was a "new" race.

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* Do Kokori die on their own? Are those shape shifting ones in WW the same ones from OOT? ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime''? If so, why don't they change back? How do they even shape shift? I suppose they do die, because new ones are born with no apparent overpopulation or such, and I doubt in OOT [=OOT=] Kokori was a "new" race.



** I meant her design. [[http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/f/f1/Zelda_OoT_2.png This]] is child Zelda in OOT. [[http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/3/3f/ZeldaTWW.png This]] is child Zelda in the cel-shaded games. [[http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/e/e1/Adult_princess_zelda%2C_(OoT).png This]] is adult Zelda in OOT. Why does cell-shaded Zelda resemble adult Zelda if she's around ten?

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** I meant her design. [[http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/f/f1/Zelda_OoT_2.png This]] is child Zelda in OOT.''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime''. [[http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/3/3f/ZeldaTWW.png This]] is child Zelda in the cel-shaded games. [[http://www.zeldawiki.org/images/e/e1/Adult_princess_zelda%2C_(OoT).png This]] is adult Zelda in OOT.''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime''. Why does cell-shaded Zelda resemble adult Zelda if she's around ten?



** They made her look like that because they decided to draw her more like she looked as an adult in OOT. There's no rule saying she ''has'' to look like she did as a kid. What does it matter?

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** They made her look like that because they decided to draw her more like she looked as an adult in OOT.''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime''. There's no rule saying she ''has'' to look like she did as a kid. What does it matter?



* Is it just me, or is the castle courtyard in OOT not directly connected to any other part of the castle?

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* Is it just me, or is the castle courtyard in OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' not directly connected to any other part of the castle?



** The Gamecube version of Twilight Princess is the canon one, so in TP Death Mountain is in the same place as in OOT. Depending on where you put ALTTP on the timeline, there's plenty of time for tectonic plate shifting.

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** The Gamecube version of Twilight Princess is the canon one, so in TP Death Mountain is in the same place as in OOT.[=OOT=]. Depending on where you put ALTTP on the timeline, there's plenty of time for tectonic plate shifting.



** ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaSkywardSword Skyward Sword]]'' makes it even worse. The Lanayru province is particularly baffling, because it used to be a lush landscape, but has become a desert full of high-tech ruins by SS, only to become the site of Lake Hylia and home of the aquatic Zoras by OOT. There is also a lake in the southern Faron Woods that is home to the Parella tribe, both of which mysteriously vanish before any of the other games.
** As I see it, ignoring Twilight Princess's naming of provinces, if you rotate Skyward Sword's map slightly to the right, it fits OoT's map fairly well. Death Mountain/Eldin Volcano in the Northeast, the Temple of Time in the North, the Lake in the South, the forest to the east, the desert to the west, and hell, the spiral shape of the Sealed Grounds is similar to Lon Lon Ranch, and fits in right there on the map. Considering a large island from the sky lands in the Sealed Grounds, after taking the Statue of the Goddess away, this could all work, and there would be minor work needed to re-greenify the area in the desert around the Temple of Time. Maybe they used Timeshift stones in the ground after cleaning out all the mines of the machinery and ancient robots.
** The geography with regards to Twilight Princess gets confusing, because of the Wii reflection. Using the Wii version, if you view the LTTP map on its side, with Death Mountain on the left, then the positions of the Desert, Zora's Domain (the river's source on the LTTP map) and the Forest align remarkably well, with Lake Hylia being the only part sitting significantly out of place (the Castle is a little misplaced, but not dramatically so). Note that Kakariko Village can be moved with relative ease after a long period of time. If you use the GC version, then the locations of the Desert, Lake Hylia, the Forest, the Castle, Kakariko Village, and Death Mountain line up remarkably well, leaving only Zora's Domain and the location of the Temple of Time/Master Sword misplaced (and Snowpeak well off the map to the north-west on the OOT map).

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** ''[[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaSkywardSword Skyward Sword]]'' makes it even worse. The Lanayru province is particularly baffling, because it used to be a lush landscape, but has become a desert full of high-tech ruins by SS, only to become the site of Lake Hylia and home of the aquatic Zoras by OOT.''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime''. There is also a lake in the southern Faron Woods that is home to the Parella tribe, both of which mysteriously vanish before any of the other games.
** As I see it, ignoring Twilight Princess's naming of provinces, if you rotate Skyward Sword's map slightly to the right, it fits OoT's [=OoT=]'s map fairly well. Death Mountain/Eldin Volcano in the Northeast, the Temple of Time in the North, the Lake in the South, the forest to the east, the desert to the west, and hell, the spiral shape of the Sealed Grounds is similar to Lon Lon Ranch, and fits in right there on the map. Considering a large island from the sky lands in the Sealed Grounds, after taking the Statue of the Goddess away, this could all work, and there would be minor work needed to re-greenify the area in the desert around the Temple of Time. Maybe they used Timeshift stones in the ground after cleaning out all the mines of the machinery and ancient robots.
** The geography with regards to Twilight Princess gets confusing, because of the Wii reflection. Using the Wii version, if you view the LTTP map on its side, with Death Mountain on the left, then the positions of the Desert, Zora's Domain (the river's source on the LTTP map) and the Forest align remarkably well, with Lake Hylia being the only part sitting significantly out of place (the Castle is a little misplaced, but not dramatically so). Note that Kakariko Village can be moved with relative ease after a long period of time. If you use the GC version, then the locations of the Desert, Lake Hylia, the Forest, the Castle, Kakariko Village, and Death Mountain line up remarkably well, leaving only Zora's Domain and the location of the Temple of Time/Master Sword misplaced (and Snowpeak well off the map to the north-west on the OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' map).



* In OOT, child Link can't ride Epona because she's too young to carry him and he has to wait for both of them to grow up. Then, in MM, they're both young but he can ride her with no problem. Assuming very little time has passed since the ending of OOT, doesn't it sound weird?
** I think child Link can't ride Epona in OOT because she still belongs to Lon Lon Ranch. Link might have borrowed her from Malon before MM begins.

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* In OOT, ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'', child Link can't ride Epona because she's too young to carry him and he has to wait for both of them to grow up. Then, in MM, they're both young but he can ride her with no problem. Assuming very little time has passed since the ending of OOT, [=OOT=], doesn't it sound weird?
** I think child Link can't ride Epona in OOT [=OOT=] because she still belongs to Lon Lon Ranch. Link might have borrowed her from Malon before MM begins.



* In the story the Great Deku Tree tells in OOT, the Triforce is created whole and unseparated. BUT, in SS the Triforce begins separated into its constituent three pieces. Was the cutscene just for illustrative purposes, or are we to assume [[AWizardDidIt Hylia did something to it before SS?]]

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* In the story the Great Deku Tree tells in OOT, ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'', the Triforce is created whole and unseparated. BUT, in SS the Triforce begins separated into its constituent three pieces. Was the cutscene just for illustrative purposes, or are we to assume [[AWizardDidIt Hylia did something to it before SS?]]



* How can there be both a timeline where Link defeats Ganon in OOT and another one where he gets killed, if there is only one Hero of Time? It's not a split timeline like the Adult and Child ones because there's no time travel involved at the end, so what gives?
** Link did a lot of jumping back and forth in OoT, remember, using a method that clearly wasn't designed for time travel (and as such can be expected to have a few bugs). I assume the "failure" timelines(s) is/are the result of those jumps - he leaves the future for the past to go to the Well, and the future he leaves becomes a Failure timeline, returning to a new one.

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* How can there be both a timeline where Link defeats Ganon in OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' and another one where he gets killed, if there is only one Hero of Time? It's not a split timeline like the Adult and Child ones because there's no time travel involved at the end, so what gives?
** Link did a lot of jumping back and forth in OoT, [=OoT=], remember, using a method that clearly wasn't designed for time travel (and as such can be expected to have a few bugs). I assume the "failure" timelines(s) is/are the result of those jumps - he leaves the future for the past to go to the Well, and the future he leaves becomes a Failure timeline, returning to a new one.



** If you think OOT and TP are different, [=ALttP=] and OOT have VERY different layouts, even if the elements (Lost Woods, Death Mountain, Kakariko Village) are still there.

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** If you think OOT [=OOT=] and TP are different, [=ALttP=] and OOT [=OOT=] have VERY different layouts, even if the elements (Lost Woods, Death Mountain, Kakariko Village) are still there.



** OOT Link is known as the Hero of Time, so the fact that time travel was involved in the events is presumably well-known. Therefore, it's likely that Young Link is considered to be the hero's "real" age, since he presumably didn't grow up mentally between time periods. It could even be that the fact that he was returned to his childhood was passed on, even though the effects of that weren't felt in that timeline.

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** OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' Link is known as the Hero of Time, so the fact that time travel was involved in the events is presumably well-known. Therefore, it's likely that Young Link is considered to be the hero's "real" age, since he presumably didn't grow up mentally between time periods. It could even be that the fact that he was returned to his childhood was passed on, even though the effects of that weren't felt in that timeline.



** It's clearly a different sword, or at least one that's already had to have been reforged. The MM sword has a rectangular guard with two bolts, and the OOT sword has a winged guard with a red thing (a gem?). If the game calls it the Kokiri sword (I think it does, but it's not worth it to check one of my copies of the game at the moment), it's probably because it was designed to imitate the blade-shape, weight, and balance of the Kokiri sword. Having it reforged into the Razor Sword or Gilded Sword is probably only partially making it sharper -- a lot of that may be adjusting the balance so that it's easier for young teen Link to wield it than child Link (and older teen/adult Link may be able to wield it effectively as well, if the gold is more than just some strange kind of laminate that can hold an edge and is actually incorporated into the metal of the blade).

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** It's clearly a different sword, or at least one that's already had to have been reforged. The MM sword has a rectangular guard with two bolts, and the OOT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' sword has a winged guard with a red thing (a gem?). If the game calls it the Kokiri sword (I think it does, but it's not worth it to check one of my copies of the game at the moment), it's probably because it was designed to imitate the blade-shape, weight, and balance of the Kokiri sword. Having it reforged into the Razor Sword or Gilded Sword is probably only partially making it sharper -- a lot of that may be adjusting the balance so that it's easier for young teen Link to wield it than child Link (and older teen/adult Link may be able to wield it effectively as well, if the gold is more than just some strange kind of laminate that can hold an edge and is actually incorporated into the metal of the blade).



For everything else, your conclusions would make sense if ''Skyward Sword'' hadn't thrown a wrench into everything. The royal attendants should have known the princess' divine blood placed her in grave danger even before everything else was factored into consideration, and that she would probably have to defend herself against capture. Dynasties don't last long without proactive precautions against danger! Once again, it beggars belief how Hyrule has lasted this long when they're completely dependent on divine intervention to get out of their problems. Even SS itself has the plot hole of why Hylia allowed her vessel to be so helpless when she was so crucial to the plan. WW, OOT, and ST are the only ones where it makes sense that Zelda doesn't solve the plot herself.

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For everything else, your conclusions would make sense if ''Skyward Sword'' hadn't thrown a wrench into everything. The royal attendants should have known the princess' divine blood placed her in grave danger even before everything else was factored into consideration, and that she would probably have to defend herself against capture. Dynasties don't last long without proactive precautions against danger! Once again, it beggars belief how Hyrule has lasted this long when they're completely dependent on divine intervention to get out of their problems. Even SS itself has the plot hole of why Hylia allowed her vessel to be so helpless when she was so crucial to the plan. WW, OOT, [=OOT=], and ST are the only ones where it makes sense that Zelda doesn't solve the plot herself.



** The Zoras come in two sub-species, River and Sea Zoras. The Sea Zoras (OOT) are more formal and friendly, whereas River Zoras are rural and hostile. For most of the franchise, the River Zoras have always been hostile and aggressive towards Link, with the exception of ALBW where Sea Zoras are no longer found in Hyrule anymore, and River Zoras are split between attempting to ally with Hyrule and those who still attack. It seems to this troper that Sea Zoras find the River Zoras either to be a lost cause or they may not even be related to them in anything but name.
** The zoras in OOT and TP are clearly the freshwater varieties, so that generalization [[{{Pun}} doesn't hold water]]. Even if it did, ''Worlds'' has hostile zoras pretty close to the friendly zoras' front door, which draws the schism and outlaw theories into question.
** The Zoras in OOT and TP ''are'' the Sea Zoras. The only game where both types show up is ''Oracle of Ages'', where a [[http://i.imgur.com/2tEUmbS.png= single OOT styled Zora]] tells you not to mistake the Sea Zoras with the River Zoras. Their naming doesn't have much to do with where they live beyond this game, it's just to make a distinction between the two. The outbreak between the River Zoras is explained by her majesty in ''ALBW'', stating that not all of them follow her will. This also conveniently [[HandWave handwaves]] the fact that they are still attacking you despite the Queen Zora not being hostile.

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** The Zoras come in two sub-species, River and Sea Zoras. The Sea Zoras (OOT) ([=OOT=]) are more formal and friendly, whereas River Zoras are rural and hostile. For most of the franchise, the River Zoras have always been hostile and aggressive towards Link, with the exception of ALBW where Sea Zoras are no longer found in Hyrule anymore, and River Zoras are split between attempting to ally with Hyrule and those who still attack. It seems to this troper that Sea Zoras find the River Zoras either to be a lost cause or they may not even be related to them in anything but name.
** The zoras in OOT [=OOT=] and TP are clearly the freshwater varieties, so that generalization [[{{Pun}} doesn't hold water]]. Even if it did, ''Worlds'' has hostile zoras pretty close to the friendly zoras' front door, which draws the schism and outlaw theories into question.
** The Zoras in OOT [=OOT=] and TP ''are'' the Sea Zoras. The only game where both types show up is ''Oracle of Ages'', where a [[http://i.imgur.com/2tEUmbS.png= single OOT [=OOT=] styled Zora]] tells you not to mistake the Sea Zoras with the River Zoras. Their naming doesn't have much to do with where they live beyond this game, it's just to make a distinction between the two. The outbreak between the River Zoras is explained by her majesty in ''ALBW'', stating that not all of them follow her will. This also conveniently [[HandWave handwaves]] the fact that they are still attacking you despite the Queen Zora not being hostile.



** There are Gerudo children in Breath of the Wild's Gerudo Town, such as one who hangs out near the arrow shop advertising. No idea why they're mysteriously absent in OoT/MM, though.

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** There are Gerudo children in Breath of the Wild's Gerudo Town, such as one who hangs out near the arrow shop advertising. No idea why they're mysteriously absent in OoT/MM, [=OoT=]/MM, though.



** As for MM, though, they were pirates in that game - not much of a kid-friendly occupation, if you ask me. There may've been Gerudo elsewhere in the world who did live normal lives. OoT is a bit tougher, but you're never allowed into their fortress as a child, and by the time the future rolls around, the tribe's reputation as nothing but a band of thieves has probably been worsened due to Ganondorf's taking over Hyrule, so there probably just weren't any chances for them to reproduce during that time.

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** As for MM, though, they were pirates in that game - not much of a kid-friendly occupation, if you ask me. There may've been Gerudo elsewhere in the world who did live normal lives. OoT ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'' is a bit tougher, but you're never allowed into their fortress as a child, and by the time the future rolls around, the tribe's reputation as nothing but a band of thieves has probably been worsened due to Ganondorf's taking over Hyrule, so there probably just weren't any chances for them to reproduce during that time.



** The whole point of the dream in Link's Awakening was it was just like a real world, so it doesn't invalidate anything. Big Blins look exactly like Club Moblins from OOT, regardless we see [[FanNickName blins]] they're working independently as pirates in both games, in Spirit Tracks we even see them relaxing at a table when not holding prisoners. Great Moblin was working alone in both Oracle games, either making travelers pay to pass by his fortress, or trying to monopolize the bomb making business. At several points, Great Moblin's followers could be dealt with peacefully. When Great Moblin and his forces encounter Zelda, all they want is her jewelry. Additionally after being defeated, Great Moblin moves into the Holodrum city of Sunken City where he laments having to open a regular bomb selling business. They're clearly sentient beings with their own agenda rather then mindless creations of Ganon.

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** The whole point of the dream in Link's Awakening was it was just like a real world, so it doesn't invalidate anything. Big Blins look exactly like Club Moblins from OOT, ''VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOcarinaOfTime'', regardless we see [[FanNickName blins]] they're working independently as pirates in both games, in Spirit Tracks we even see them relaxing at a table when not holding prisoners. Great Moblin was working alone in both Oracle games, either making travelers pay to pass by his fortress, or trying to monopolize the bomb making business. At several points, Great Moblin's followers could be dealt with peacefully. When Great Moblin and his forces encounter Zelda, all they want is her jewelry. Additionally after being defeated, Great Moblin moves into the Holodrum city of Sunken City where he laments having to open a regular bomb selling business. They're clearly sentient beings with their own agenda rather then mindless creations of Ganon.
1st Sep '17 10:00:59 PM HalcyonDayz
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** Actually, Link's age in Ocarina of Time is confirmed to be 9 as a child and 16 as an adult. Miyamoto said so in Iwata Asks for Ocarina of Time 3D interview. Interestingly enough, he also said Link is 12 in the original LOZ and 16 in AoL.

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** Actually, Link's age in Ocarina of Time is confirmed to be 9 as a child and 16 as an adult. Miyamoto said so in Iwata Asks for Ocarina of Time 3D interview. Interestingly enough, he also said Link is 12 in the original LOZ ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda'' and 16 in AoL.



** From what I gathered, Link and Zelda aren't the same Link and Zelda in every game, but new Links and New Zeldas that the goddesses spawn everytime Ganondorf shows his head (Or some other great evil). Link has only been the same Link in direct Sequels (OoT Link and MM Link, LoZ 1 Link and LoZ 2 Link , 4S Link and MC Link, and WW Link and PH Link), and every other time there's been a Link they were completely different Links. Same applies to Zelda.

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** From what I gathered, Link and Zelda aren't the same Link and Zelda in every game, but new Links and New Zeldas that the goddesses spawn everytime Ganondorf shows his head (Or some other great evil). Link has only been the same Link in direct Sequels (OoT Link and MM Link, LoZ [=LoZ=] 1 Link and LoZ [=LoZ=] 2 Link , 4S Link and MC Link, and WW Link and PH Link), and every other time there's been a Link they were completely different Links. Same applies to Zelda.



** Have you played the first game? The sword the Old Man who ''specifically says'' "It's dangerous to go alone" gives you is NOT the Master Sword. It even specifically says "You got the wooden sword!" when you first pick that sword up from him. Plus the original game manual ''calls'' it the wooden sword. Secondly, it is also [[SortingAlgorithmOfWeaponEffectiveness not the only sword you get in that game.]] After getting six lines of hearts, you can obtain [[InfinityMinusOneSword the White Sword]] (which later games in the series imply was also the Picori Blade) from an old man in the graveyard - who says "If you can master it, you can use this," which is different from what the first Old Man who give you the wooden sword tells you. And then later on after that (I can't remember if it's based on the number of hearts you have, or if it's based on how many dungeons you've beaten) you can obtain the final sword, [[InfinityPlusOneSword the Magical Sword,]] from an Old Man who tells you the same thing the Old Man who give you the White Sword tells you. And it's the ''Magical Sword'' that you use to beat Ganon with. (In fact, the original game manual specifically says you can ''only'' use the Magical Sword to beat Ganon, in conjunction with another item, which you discover is the Silver Arrows. Meaning the the Wooden Sword is totally ineffective against Ganon, something the Master Sword only is when it's depowered - and even then it doesn't change into wood when it is). And it doesn't matter which sword you use, as long as all your hearts are full, you can shoot sword beams from each of them - it's not a power limited to just the first sword you get, or any specific sword. Now, the Magical Sword ''may'' be the Master Sword under a different name, or it may not be - it's really just speculation. (As the art in the manual and stuff has the Magical Sword looking different in design from the Master Sword that we all know of now). But the very first sword you obtain in the game (from the "It's dangerous to go alone" Old Man) IS just a simple wooden sword, and the only thing the sword beam thing depends on is if your hearts are full, not which sword you are using. So, as far as LOZ-Link goes, his ability to make sword beams comes from some type of power within ''him,'' and not from the sword he's using.

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** Have you played the first game? The sword the Old Man who ''specifically says'' "It's dangerous to go alone" gives you is NOT the Master Sword. It even specifically says "You got the wooden sword!" when you first pick that sword up from him. Plus the original game manual ''calls'' it the wooden sword. Secondly, it is also [[SortingAlgorithmOfWeaponEffectiveness not the only sword you get in that game.]] After getting six lines of hearts, you can obtain [[InfinityMinusOneSword the White Sword]] (which later games in the series imply was also the Picori Blade) from an old man in the graveyard - who says "If you can master it, you can use this," which is different from what the first Old Man who give you the wooden sword tells you. And then later on after that (I can't remember if it's based on the number of hearts you have, or if it's based on how many dungeons you've beaten) you can obtain the final sword, [[InfinityPlusOneSword the Magical Sword,]] from an Old Man who tells you the same thing the Old Man who give you the White Sword tells you. And it's the ''Magical Sword'' that you use to beat Ganon with. (In fact, the original game manual specifically says you can ''only'' use the Magical Sword to beat Ganon, in conjunction with another item, which you discover is the Silver Arrows. Meaning the the Wooden Sword is totally ineffective against Ganon, something the Master Sword only is when it's depowered - and even then it doesn't change into wood when it is). And it doesn't matter which sword you use, as long as all your hearts are full, you can shoot sword beams from each of them - it's not a power limited to just the first sword you get, or any specific sword. Now, the Magical Sword ''may'' be the Master Sword under a different name, or it may not be - it's really just speculation. (As the art in the manual and stuff has the Magical Sword looking different in design from the Master Sword that we all know of now). But the very first sword you obtain in the game (from the "It's dangerous to go alone" Old Man) IS just a simple wooden sword, and the only thing the sword beam thing depends on is if your hearts are full, not which sword you are using. So, as far as LOZ-Link [=LOZ=]-Link goes, his ability to make sword beams comes from some type of power within ''him,'' and not from the sword he's using.
6th Aug '17 1:33:19 PM sugaricequeen
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** Is that right? I guess I haven't seen all there is in Gerudo Town, or else I just didn't notice them. And now that I think about it, I guess the town's leader, Urbosa's daughter, is technically still a child, too.

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** Is that right? I guess I haven't seen all there is in Gerudo Town, or else I just didn't notice them. And now that I think about it, I guess the town's leader, Urbosa's daughter, leader is technically still a child, too.


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** No, she's not - that was my error in posting that. I mistakenly thought she was when I first started playing the game.
5th Jul '17 5:20:07 AM TheLampOfHyrule
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** Is Riju Urbosa'a daughter? I thought she was around 16, and Urbosa "died", for want of a better word, 100 years ago.
12th Jun '17 3:15:43 AM PandaXclone2
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** In addition to the above, the fact is Child Link spent some time as an adult and as such was able to do things that children would otherwise get no chance to learn until they're older. Some of that experience ''had'' to have rubbed off on him when he went back to being a child, and even if he still requires training to adjust his younger body, it would be quick for him to learn.

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** In addition to the above, the fact is Child Link spent some time as an adult and as such was able to do things learn certain skills and use equipment that children would otherwise get no chance to learn or use until they're older. Some of that experience ''had'' to have rubbed off on him when he went back to being a child, and even if he still requires training to adjust his younger body, it would be quick for him to learn.
12th Jun '17 3:12:32 AM PandaXclone2
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Added DiffLines:

** In addition to the above, the fact is Child Link spent some time as an adult and as such was able to do things that children would otherwise get no chance to learn until they're older. Some of that experience ''had'' to have rubbed off on him when he went back to being a child, and even if he still requires training to adjust his younger body, it would be quick for him to learn.
12th Jun '17 12:29:28 AM sugaricequeen
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** Also, not all Hyrule princesses are named "Zelda." From what we know for sure, only the ones seen in-game are. ''Zelda 2'' tried to say that they were, as an explanation for why all the ones in later games would have that name, but now that ''Hyrule Historia'' has been released, ''Zelda 2'' is now the last game in the timeline, with ([[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaBreathOfTheWild presumably]]) no games taking place after it. So it's probably just a lucky coincidence that the only princesses named Zelda are the ones who get caught up in some sort of plot.
12th Jun '17 12:19:41 AM sugaricequeen
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** More likely, he just didn't know how to ride her at that age or didn't have the physical capabilities to do so. His model in ''Majora's Mask'' is clearly different from the one in ''Ocarina of Time'', he does fancy flips when jumping, and can pick Bomb Flowers without need of the Goron Bracelet - it's safe to say that in the time between the two games, he either grew up a bit or underwent training to hone his physique.
2nd Jun '17 11:47:13 AM PandaXclone2
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*** The Oracle games don't take place in Hyrule and the Zoras/Gorons living in the respective regions were already living there before everything went down. It's as simple as that. Beside which, it's doubtful that Ganon would've focused his attention or Volvagia on Holodrum/Labrynna when he was preoccupied with a war against Hyrule at the time.
28th May '17 7:24:52 AM kkhohoho
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*** Except that just begs the question of if something from supplementary material that isn't in the actual games should actually count. Though even putting that aside, if all of the Gorons were supposed to have been wiped out and the Zoras imprisoned, then how does that explain the Gorons and Zoras in the Oracle games, assuming that they take place between Link to the Past and Link's Awakening? (With the same Link no less?) Granted, you could simply handwave that Volvagia only ate the Gorons in Hyrule and that only the Hyrulian Zoras got imprisoned in ice rather than the ones in Termina, but it still doesn't really add up.
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