History Headscratchers / TheDarkKnightRises

7th Apr '16 3:28:35 PM costanton11
Is there an issue? Send a Message


*** The problem is that the scene with Blake finding the boy seems to set up how he was able to find Gordon, since he knew from the incident from the boy where the sewer would lead so he went there to find Gordon. It doesn't make much sense for the scene with Gordon to be before the scene with the boy, unless the writers originally wrote it like that, then though it was too unlikely that Blake would know where Gordon was, and thus rearranged the scenes so that orphan scene would provide an explanation, but they missed the issue that this created with Gordon still having the speech.

to:

*** The problem is that the scene with Blake finding the boy seems to set up how he was able to find Gordon, since he knew from the incident from the boy where the sewer would lead so he went there to find Gordon. It doesn't make much sense for the scene with Gordon to be before the scene with the boy, unless the writers originally wrote it like that, then though thought it was too unlikely that Blake would know where Gordon was, and thus rearranged the scenes so that orphan scene would provide an explanation, but they missed the issue that this created with Gordon still having the speech.
7th Apr '16 11:52:55 AM MrDeath
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** Website/TheEditingRoom put several lampshades on this.
7th Apr '16 11:31:26 AM MrDeath
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* Minor query, but why do you suppose Bane goes by the name "Bane" at all? Even if "Bane" is the name he grew up with [[note]](although my personal WMG is that his birth name is 'Farts Fartington')[[/note]]. As the new leader of the League of Shadows, Bane could easily declare himself the new "Ra's Al Ghul" instead and take advantage of all of the fear and awe attached to that title, especially after the attack on Gotham in ''Batman Begins.'' Why didn't he?

to:

* Minor query, but why do you suppose Bane goes by the name "Bane" at all? Even if "Bane" is the name he grew up with [[note]](although my personal WMG is that his birth name is 'Farts Fartington')[[/note]].with. As the new leader of the League of Shadows, Bane could easily declare himself the new "Ra's Al Ghul" instead and take advantage of all of the fear and awe attached to that title, especially after the attack on Gotham in ''Batman Begins.'' Why didn't he?
7th Apr '16 11:13:53 AM MrDeath
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

** Why would he bother at this point?
7th Apr '16 10:26:33 AM costanton11
Is there an issue? Send a Message


** He was going to resign until Bruce gave him a code that would destroy the surveillance contraption that he disapproved of. We see him using it at the end of that movie. He explicitly said that he wasn't going to stay in the company if the machine stayed.

to:

** He was going to resign until Bruce gave him a code that would destroy the surveillance contraption that he disapproved of. We see him using it at the end of that movie. He explicitly said that he wasn't going to stay in the company if the machine stayed. The machine didn't stay so he did.



*** The problem is that the scene with Blake finding the boy seems to set up how he was able to find Gordon, since he knew from the incident from the boy where the sewer would lead so he went there to find Gordon. It doesn't make much sense for the scene with Gordon to be before the scene with the boy, unless the writers originally wrote it like that, then though it was too unlikely that Blake would know where Gordon was, and thus rearranged the scenes so that orphan scene would provide an explanation, but they missed the issue that this created with Gordon still having the speech.



* The joker is locked up, and everyone thinks Batman and Bruce are dead. What's to stop Mr. Reese from releasing Bruce's secret to the public? In the previous movie, he was scared of being beaten to a pulp by Batman, and killed by the Joker. With those 2 gone, Mr. Reese would be free to expose Bruce's secret identity.

to:

* The joker Joker is locked up, and everyone thinks Batman and Bruce are dead. What's to stop Mr. Reese from releasing Bruce's secret to the public? In the previous movie, he was scared of being beaten to a pulp by Batman, and killed by the Joker. With those 2 gone, Mr. Reese would be free to expose Bruce's secret identity.
19th Mar '16 7:45:16 PM SuperMagneto
Is there an issue? Send a Message


* The joker is locked up, and everyone thinks Batman and Bruce are dead. What's to stop Mr. Reese from releasing Bruce's secret to the public? Also, he could harass Fox and Afred for money if he wanted to.

to:

* The joker is locked up, and everyone thinks Batman and Bruce are dead. What's to stop Mr. Reese from releasing Bruce's secret to the public? Also, In the previous movie, he could harass Fox was scared of being beaten to a pulp by Batman, and Afred for money if he wanted to.killed by the Joker. With those 2 gone, Mr. Reese would be free to expose Bruce's secret identity.
19th Mar '16 7:35:49 PM SuperMagneto
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder:A good ending, but what about Mr. Reese?]]
* The joker is locked up, and everyone thinks Batman and Bruce are dead. What's to stop Mr. Reese from releasing Bruce's secret to the public? Also, he could harass Fox and Afred for money if he wanted to.
16th Mar '16 3:53:43 AM DoctorNemesis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


!!!New entries go at the bottom. This page will contain unmarked spoilers. You've been warned.

to:

!!!New entries go at the bottom. This '''This page will contain unmarked spoilers. You've been warned.
warned.'''
16th Mar '16 3:53:08 AM DoctorNemesis
Is there an issue? Send a Message


!!!New entries go at the bottom.

to:

!!!New entries go at the bottom.
bottom. This page will contain unmarked spoilers. You've been warned.



* Okay, I get that [[spoiler: Robin is about to become the new Batman or whatever. But did Bruce actually hand over control to him? It was implied that Robin found it himself. I highly doubt that Bruce would just leave the Batcave operational without a few passwords at the least so how is Robin going to actually use the equipment?]]

to:

* Okay, I get that [[spoiler: Robin is about to become the new Batman or whatever. But did Bruce actually hand over control to him? It was implied that Robin found it himself. I highly doubt that Bruce would just leave the Batcave operational without a few passwords at the least so how is Robin going to actually use the equipment?]]equipment?



** What I don't get is [[spoiler:how is Blake going to be Batman at all? Not only he lacks Bruce's League training, but he also lacks his immense wealth, access to advanced R&D, and a tech wizard like Lucius Fox. What's exactly he going to do when the suit breaks or some gadget needs maintenance? At first I thought of the possibilty that Bruce may finance him, but doesn't seem possible since not only Bruce abandoned his possessions in order to disappear (if he actually did and that wasn't just Alfred's imagination), but he was already struggling with being at the edge of bankruptcy before that.]]
*** [[spoiler: Terry [=McGinnis=] from Batman Beyond is able to hold his own with the help of the bat suit, possessing nothing more than street smarts and some fighting experience. Although he has more difficulty initially, he gets better with experience and with Bruce's guidance. On the other hand, Blake, in addition to having street smarts and good instincts, is a ''cop'' that can probably handle himself reasonably well sans the ninja training.]]
*** Undoubtedly there is going to be some interruption of Bat-services in the short term. We don't know what kind of training [[spoiler: Blake has, but he handled himself pretty well with a handgun. Additionally, there is no indication that Batman is needed to the extent that he was in dealing with Ra's, Joker, and Bane.]] There were 8 years of super-villain (apparently) free Gotham. [[spoiler: Blake may have the time he needs to become his own version of Batman, with the smaller tests (thugs, remnants of League mooks, etc) that he needs to figure everything out.]] Additionally, there were multiple copies of the suit and most of the equipment. The support gear in the Batcave could be a problem, but if Bruce designed it himself, he may have done so taking in account that the equipment spends its time in a damp cave--so it could be built to last. If all else fails, new sightings of the Batman are going to draw Lucius Fox's attention.

to:

** What I don't get is [[spoiler:how how is Blake going to be Batman at all? Not only he lacks Bruce's League training, but he also lacks his immense wealth, access to advanced R&D, and a tech wizard like Lucius Fox. What's exactly he going to do when the suit breaks or some gadget needs maintenance? At first I thought of the possibilty that Bruce may finance him, but doesn't seem possible since not only Bruce abandoned his possessions in order to disappear (if he actually did and that wasn't just Alfred's imagination), but he was already struggling with being at the edge of bankruptcy before that.]]
that.
*** [[spoiler: Terry [=McGinnis=] from Batman Beyond is able to hold his own with the help of the bat suit, possessing nothing more than street smarts and some fighting experience. Although he has more difficulty initially, he gets better with experience and with Bruce's guidance. On the other hand, Blake, in addition to having street smarts and good instincts, is a ''cop'' that can probably handle himself reasonably well sans the ninja training.]]
training.
*** Undoubtedly there is going to be some interruption of Bat-services in the short term. We don't know what kind of training [[spoiler: Blake has, but he handled himself pretty well with a handgun. Additionally, there is no indication that Batman is needed to the extent that he was in dealing with Ra's, Joker, and Bane.]] There were 8 years of super-villain (apparently) free Gotham. [[spoiler: Blake may have the time he needs to become his own version of Batman, with the smaller tests (thugs, remnants of League mooks, etc) that he needs to figure everything out.]] out. Additionally, there were multiple copies of the suit and most of the equipment. The support gear in the Batcave could be a problem, but if Bruce designed it himself, he may have done so taking in account that the equipment spends its time in a damp cave--so it could be built to last. If all else fails, new sightings of the Batman are going to draw Lucius Fox's attention.



* Now it was in the middle of the theater so it was a bit hard to hear, but can someone explain the backstory of [[spoiler: Talia. I understand she made the leap and all that but Bane loved her or something right and trying to help someone escape meant that you would get beaten up. I missed a lot.]]
** [[spoiler: Ras was the mercenary in the story. He fell in love with the warlord's daughter, married her, and got her pregnant. For that Ras was dumped in the pit. His wife sacrificed herself to free him, but had to take his place in the pit. That's where Talia was born. Bane was another inmate who took the two women under his wing, but he couldn't stop the other prisoners from killing Talia's mother (BTW this is utterly illogical, they would have to be idiots to kill a VERY pretty woman who is also the only woman available). Realizing that he couldn't protect her forever, Bane helped Talia escape but the other inmates wanted Talia for themselves (for squicky reasons, most likely) and destroyed his face in their anger. Talia found Ras, Ras came back to kill all the inmates in revenge, and rescued Bane. But Ras couldn't stand him because it reminded Ras of his own failure, so he exiled Bane and Talia followed him.]]
*** [[spoiler: Actually, it seemed more like she was thrown in the pit while Ra's simply wasn't, and he may not have even known about the pit before Talia told him, let alone that he narrowly avoided it. Also, while Ra's may have had trouble standing the sight of Bane (this is Talia and Bane's version of events, after all) it is implied that Bane really was, as Alfred put it, too extreme for him. Talia didn't follow Bane; she went her own way after Bane was kicked out, but found him again after her father died.]]
*** [[spoiler: You're half right. It is explicitly stated in the first telling of the Pit story that Ra's was sentenced to the Pit and his wife agreed to take his place, thus freeing him. It is implied that Ra's never knew what happened to his wife until long after her death. He probably just assumed that she managed to convince her father to free him. As for Bane, there are multiple reasons why Ra's threw him out of the League of Shadows, both stated above. Bane was too extreme, and as Talia says, Ra's saw Bane as a monster because of his intensity and because looking at him reminded Ra's of the monsters of the Pit.]]
*** [[spoiler: Given how obsessive Ra's was about retribution, I very much doubt he would've let his wife remain in the pit for a moment if he'd known what happened to her. Most likely, his father-in-law banished him from the country by ''claiming'' that he would spare Talia's mother from any punishment if he never returned, then tossed her into the prison as soon as her husband had left.]]
*** [[spoiler:Maybe the real reason Ras could not bear to look at Bane was because he saw Bane as ''better'' than him -- after all, Bane was the one who sacrificed himself to protect Ras' wife and child in the hells of the Pit, while Ras simply walked away scot-free.]]
*** [[spoiler: It may be "utterly ''illogical''" that other prisoners killed Talia's mother, but that doesn't make it ''unlikely''. Perhaps (for instance) one of the prisoners [[IfICantHaveYou lashed out]] when she rejected his advances]].
*** [[spoiler:Not pleasant to think about, but her death was likely an accident...literally raped to death in the frenzy, perhaps? Dying later of internal injuries.]]

to:

* Now it was in the middle of the theater so it was a bit hard to hear, but can someone explain the backstory of [[spoiler: Talia. I understand she made the leap and all that but Bane loved her or something right and trying to help someone escape meant that you would get beaten up. I missed a lot.]]
lot.
** [[spoiler: Ras was the mercenary in the story. He fell in love with the warlord's daughter, married her, and got her pregnant. For that Ras was dumped in the pit. His wife sacrificed herself to free him, but had to take his place in the pit. That's where Talia was born. Bane was another inmate who took the two women under his wing, but he couldn't stop the other prisoners from killing Talia's mother (BTW this is utterly illogical, they would have to be idiots to kill a VERY pretty woman who is also the only woman available). Realizing that he couldn't protect her forever, Bane helped Talia escape but the other inmates wanted Talia for themselves (for squicky reasons, most likely) and destroyed his face in their anger. Talia found Ras, Ras came back to kill all the inmates in revenge, and rescued Bane. But Ras couldn't stand him because it reminded Ras of his own failure, so he exiled Bane and Talia followed him.]]
him.
*** [[spoiler: Actually, it seemed more like she was thrown in the pit while Ra's simply wasn't, and he may not have even known about the pit before Talia told him, let alone that he narrowly avoided it. Also, while Ra's may have had trouble standing the sight of Bane (this is Talia and Bane's version of events, after all) it is implied that Bane really was, as Alfred put it, too extreme for him. Talia didn't follow Bane; she went her own way after Bane was kicked out, but found him again after her father died.]]
died.
*** [[spoiler: You're half right. It is explicitly stated in the first telling of the Pit story that Ra's was sentenced to the Pit and his wife agreed to take his place, thus freeing him. It is implied that Ra's never knew what happened to his wife until long after her death. He probably just assumed that she managed to convince her father to free him. As for Bane, there are multiple reasons why Ra's threw him out of the League of Shadows, both stated above. Bane was too extreme, and as Talia says, Ra's saw Bane as a monster because of his intensity and because looking at him reminded Ra's of the monsters of the Pit.]]
Pit.
*** [[spoiler: Given how obsessive Ra's was about retribution, I very much doubt he would've let his wife remain in the pit for a moment if he'd known what happened to her. Most likely, his father-in-law banished him from the country by ''claiming'' that he would spare Talia's mother from any punishment if he never returned, then tossed her into the prison as soon as her husband had left.]]
left.
*** [[spoiler:Maybe Maybe the real reason Ras could not bear to look at Bane was because he saw Bane as ''better'' than him -- after all, Bane was the one who sacrificed himself to protect Ras' wife and child in the hells of the Pit, while Ras simply walked away scot-free.]]
scot-free.
*** [[spoiler: It may be "utterly ''illogical''" that other prisoners killed Talia's mother, but that doesn't make it ''unlikely''. Perhaps (for instance) one of the prisoners [[IfICantHaveYou lashed out]] when she rejected his advances]].
advances.
*** [[spoiler:Not Not pleasant to think about, but her death was likely an accident...literally raped to death in the frenzy, perhaps? Dying later of internal injuries.]]



*** There is also the fact that the Act worked because Gordon is the man in chage of putting all those bad guys in jail. If it was anybody else as Commisioner, the Mafia would just hand out a briefcase or two full of cash and get out easily. Laws are only good if they are enforced, and you could say Gordon was the hero that Gotham needed at the time.

to:

*** There is also the fact that the Act worked because Gordon is the man in chage charge of putting all those bad guys in jail. If it was anybody else as Commisioner, the Mafia would just hand out a briefcase or two full of cash and get out easily. Laws are only good if they are enforced, and you could say Gordon was the hero that Gotham needed at the time.



* [[spoiler: How could Bruce escape the pit with a leg injury so bad that he can't even walk properly? At first I thought he was faking it but the doctor clearly told him there is no cartilage left in his knee. (Yet moments later he SQUATS while talking to Gordon, and then leaps up without even any popping or groaning!) He did receive some sort of power-brace to made him able to walk and also kick super-strong, but I doubt Bane would have left him that luxury since he was stripped before being thrown into jail, fully expecting he could never escape.]]
** [[spoiler: It's implied to be the Lazarus Pit.]]
*** [[spoiler: Huh? Where, exactly?]]
*** [[spoiler: Ra's al Ghul's for all intents and purposes back, just not in the flesh. The prison is referred as the pit at least once. The chant is "He rises". I think there's enough subtext hidden within the narrative for that to be seen as a Nolan version of the Lazarus Pit.]]
*** [[spoiler: Ahh! Sorry, I thought you meant the Pit as in the actual green bubbly magical pit, not Nolan's "realistic" equivalent. I'll admit I missed that. Nice!]]
** [[spoiler: Lack of cartilage is a chronic condition, not an injury. Hence, it can be dealt with very differently. It's possible his knee was frozen, and moving with the brace improved his range of motion to the point where he no longer needed it.]]
*** [[spoiler: Unlikely. I could be wrong, but I thought the x-ray of his leg showed his femur and tibia effectively lying bone-on-bone, so unless he received some kind of surgical cartilage graft or a knee replacement, he would likely be in pain during movement and would most likely have very limited range-of-motion. Even if he could walk, it would probably be very difficult for him to bear weight--like his bat-suit.]]
*** [[spoiler:The film doesn't expect the audience to understand this, and merely implies that Bruce's joint degeneration is due to his time as Batman. However, he obviously wasn't hobbling around with a cane by the end of Film/TheDarkKnight and he hasn't been Batman for 8 years since then. He was only Batman for perhaps a couple of years at most since he first brought down Carmine Falcone to the point where he took the fall for Harvey Dent. Bruce should not be in the shape he's in by this time for the reasons his doctor gave. It would be more realistic if he had simply wasted away by neglecting his fitness in the intervening years.]]
*** [[spoiler: Batman actually was stumbling as he runs for to the Batpod at the end of Film/TheDarkKnight, so it's possible the knee injury was a result of the several story fall he took saving Gordon's son from Harvey Dent.]]
*** [[spoiler:Aside from all the other things Batman is known for, he is known for his sheer willpower. Bruce Wayne likely has excruciating pain as a daily companion and just forces himself to move in spite of it when he has to. Through the first two movies he gets all sorts of injuries, and there is an unknown amount of Bat-time (at least a year) between the first and second movies. Interestingly, he does look somewhat wasted away in the beginning of the movie (hollower cheeks) but once he is determined to be Batman again, he presumably eats more regularly because his face fills out a bit. Presumably, he also engages in some sort of fitness routine prior to his time in the Pit.]]
*** [[spoiler:There is a six month gap in between the first two films, so he was Batman for less than a year the first time around.]]
*** [[spoiler: Perhaps Bruce neglected the physical therapy that he needed for his injuries because of his depression following Rachel's death. Inactivity may have worsened his condition and protracted his recovery.]]
** [[spoiler: Chronic conditions don't have "recovery". However, I live with someone who has the same problem as Bruce; cartilage deterioration. It causes intense amounts of pain every time the joint is moved, but with enough willpower and determination, it can be fought through. It will never go away, but it doesn't physically prevent the joint from moving; it just makes it extremely painful.]]
** [[spoiler: I'm gonna quote [[{{Series/Sherlock}} Sherlock]] on this, because the situation matches remarkably well. Notice how there are times when Bruce's leg doesn't seem to bother him before he gets the brace. When he's dancing with Selina Kyle, notice that he doesn't have any problem on either leg and isn't using a cane to keep himself up (though having a dancing partner to lean on may have helped). That made me think of this:]]
-->[[spoiler: '''Sherlock:''' Your limp's really bad when you walk, but you don't ask for a chair when you stand, like you've forgotten about it. That means the limp is at least partly psychosomatic. That says the original circumstances of the injury were traumatizing.]]
** [[spoiler: It makes me think his leg wasn't actually that bad. The doctor notes that ''both'' his legs are damaged, he doesn't single out the right one. So why is Bruce walking with a cane instead of crutches, unless his leg was made worse by emotional trauma? Once he decided to live again in the pit the trauma started to heal, and his leg got somewhat better.]]
** [[spoiler: Or maybe his back injury permanently damaged the lateral spinothalamic tracts of his spinal cord while only temporarily impairing the rest of its pathways, so once he'd recovered he could move his legs and feel their position, but ''not'' feel the pain in his knees anymore. NiceJobFixingItVillain?]]

to:

* [[spoiler: How could Bruce escape the pit with a leg injury so bad that he can't even walk properly? At first I thought he was faking it but the doctor clearly told him there is no cartilage left in his knee. (Yet moments later he SQUATS while talking to Gordon, and then leaps up without even any popping or groaning!) He did receive some sort of power-brace to made him able to walk and also kick super-strong, but I doubt Bane would have left him that luxury since he was stripped before being thrown into jail, fully expecting he could never escape.]]
escape.
** [[spoiler: It's implied to be the Lazarus Pit.]]
Pit.
*** [[spoiler: Huh? Where, exactly?]]
exactly?
*** [[spoiler: Ra's al Ghul's for all intents and purposes back, just not in the flesh. The prison is referred as the pit at least once. The chant is "He rises". I think there's enough subtext hidden within the narrative for that to be seen as a Nolan version of the Lazarus Pit.]]
Pit.
*** [[spoiler: Ahh! Sorry, I thought you meant the Pit as in the actual green bubbly magical pit, not Nolan's "realistic" equivalent. I'll admit I missed that. Nice!]]
Nice!
** [[spoiler: Lack of cartilage is a chronic condition, not an injury. Hence, it can be dealt with very differently. It's possible his knee was frozen, and moving with the brace improved his range of motion to the point where he no longer needed it.]]
it.
*** [[spoiler: Unlikely. I could be wrong, but I thought the x-ray of his leg showed his femur and tibia effectively lying bone-on-bone, so unless he received some kind of surgical cartilage graft or a knee replacement, he would likely be in pain during movement and would most likely have very limited range-of-motion. Even if he could walk, it would probably be very difficult for him to bear weight--like his bat-suit.]]
bat-suit.
*** [[spoiler:The The film doesn't expect the audience to understand this, and merely implies that Bruce's joint degeneration is due to his time as Batman. However, he obviously wasn't hobbling around with a cane by the end of Film/TheDarkKnight and he hasn't been Batman for 8 years since then. He was only Batman for perhaps a couple of years at most since he first brought down Carmine Falcone to the point where he took the fall for Harvey Dent. Bruce should not be in the shape he's in by this time for the reasons his doctor gave. It would be more realistic if he had simply wasted away by neglecting his fitness in the intervening years.]]
years.
*** [[spoiler: Batman actually was stumbling as he runs for to the Batpod at the end of Film/TheDarkKnight, so it's possible the knee injury was a result of the several story fall he took saving Gordon's son from Harvey Dent.]]
Dent.
*** [[spoiler:Aside Aside from all the other things Batman is known for, he is known for his sheer willpower. Bruce Wayne likely has excruciating pain as a daily companion and just forces himself to move in spite of it when he has to. Through the first two movies he gets all sorts of injuries, and there is an unknown amount of Bat-time (at least a year) between the first and second movies. Interestingly, he does look somewhat wasted away in the beginning of the movie (hollower cheeks) but once he is determined to be Batman again, he presumably eats more regularly because his face fills out a bit. Presumably, he also engages in some sort of fitness routine prior to his time in the Pit.]]
Pit.
*** [[spoiler:There There is a six month gap in between the first two films, so he was Batman for less than a year the first time around.]]
around.
*** [[spoiler: Perhaps Bruce neglected the physical therapy that he needed for his injuries because of his depression following Rachel's death. Inactivity may have worsened his condition and protracted his recovery.]]
recovery.
** [[spoiler: Chronic conditions don't have "recovery". However, I live with someone who has the same problem as Bruce; cartilage deterioration. It causes intense amounts of pain every time the joint is moved, but with enough willpower and determination, it can be fought through. It will never go away, but it doesn't physically prevent the joint from moving; it just makes it extremely painful.]]
painful.
** [[spoiler: I'm gonna quote [[{{Series/Sherlock}} Sherlock]] on this, because the situation matches remarkably well. Notice how there are times when Bruce's leg doesn't seem to bother him before he gets the brace. When he's dancing with Selina Kyle, notice that he doesn't have any problem on either leg and isn't using a cane to keep himself up (though having a dancing partner to lean on may have helped). That made me think of this:]]
-->[[spoiler: '''Sherlock:'''
this:
-->'''Sherlock:'''
Your limp's really bad when you walk, but you don't ask for a chair when you stand, like you've forgotten about it. That means the limp is at least partly psychosomatic. That says the original circumstances of the injury were traumatizing.]]
traumatizing.
** [[spoiler: It makes me think his leg wasn't actually that bad. The doctor notes that ''both'' his legs are damaged, he doesn't single out the right one. So why is Bruce walking with a cane instead of crutches, unless his leg was made worse by emotional trauma? Once he decided to live again in the pit the trauma started to heal, and his leg got somewhat better.]]
better.
** [[spoiler: Or maybe his back injury permanently damaged the lateral spinothalamic tracts of his spinal cord while only temporarily impairing the rest of its pathways, so once he'd recovered he could move his legs and feel their position, but ''not'' feel the pain in his knees anymore. NiceJobFixingItVillain?]]NiceJobFixingItVillain?



*** In the scene with Gordon in the hospital talking to Batman about Gotham needing him to come back, he really IS talking to Bruce - who just happens to be wearing a business suit with a balaclava on so Gordon doesn't know it's him. Later, Gordon tells Batman he never really cared who he was under the cowl. [[spoiler:And then at the film's end, Batman tells him he's someone who as a boy, was comforted by a cop the night his parents died. Gordon puts two and two together.]]
*** ...because apparently, [[spoiler: in a city controlled by crime where the law is powerless, Bruce was the ''only'' orphaned child Gordon ever took the time to comfort.]]
*** Because [[spoiler:it's not, and never was, Gordon's job to make sure every child in the city who was missing parents gets a hug. He comforted Bruce because he happened to be working the night his parents were shot right in front of him. CrapsackWorld though Gotham might be, I really don't think there are ''that'' many children seeing both their parents gunned down right in front of them during Gordon's shift.]]

to:

*** In the scene with Gordon in the hospital talking to Batman about Gotham needing him to come back, he really IS talking to Bruce - who just happens to be wearing a business suit with a balaclava on so Gordon doesn't know it's him. Later, Gordon tells Batman he never really cared who he was under the cowl. [[spoiler:And And then at the film's end, Batman tells him he's someone who as a boy, was comforted by a cop the night his parents died. Gordon puts two and two together.]]
together.
*** ...because apparently, [[spoiler: in a city controlled by crime where the law is powerless, Bruce was the ''only'' orphaned child Gordon ever took the time to comfort.]]
comfort.
*** Because [[spoiler:it's it's not, and never was, Gordon's job to make sure every child in the city who was missing parents gets a hug. He comforted Bruce because he happened to be working the night his parents were shot right in front of him. CrapsackWorld though Gotham might be, I really don't think there are ''that'' many children seeing both their parents gunned down right in front of them during Gordon's shift.]]



* At the end of the movie, how did [[spoiler:Bruce survive the blast?]]
** [[spoiler: Look at the scene just before the Bat triumphantly flies out over the bay, before it flies over the bridge. Its arrival is hailed by an exploding building, and it flies out through the flames and smoke. As evidenced throughout the entire movie (and especially during the rocket chase), the Bat has ABSOLUTELY NO NEED to do that, even with a heavy bomb attached. My theory is that Batman blew up part of the building and ejected in there, with the autopilot taking it the rest of the way.]]
** [[spoiler: Bruce had fixed the autopilot, but hadn't told anyone, allowing him to fake his death because everyone watching would assume he had to be at the controls. This is why Lucius looked so surprised at the end when the technicians told him Bruce had patched the software.]]
** [[spoiler: I'm actually more curious about how Bruce got the bomb so far out to sea in the limited time he had. Can't quite remember the details, but I think Pavel or Bane mentioned that the blast radius was around 50ish miles, and the timer was hitting 5 minutes when the reactor was cabled to the Bat. Judging from its flight scenes, I highly doubt it's capable of hitting speeds of 600mph, not when the fastest helicopters only hit 250 mph, and propeller aircraft manage just over 500mph. ]]

to:

* At the end of the movie, how did [[spoiler:Bruce Bruce survive the blast?]]
blast?
** [[spoiler: Look at the scene just before the Bat triumphantly flies out over the bay, before it flies over the bridge. Its arrival is hailed by an exploding building, and it flies out through the flames and smoke. As evidenced throughout the entire movie (and especially during the rocket chase), the Bat has ABSOLUTELY NO NEED to do that, even with a heavy bomb attached. My theory is that Batman blew up part of the building and ejected in there, with the autopilot taking it the rest of the way.]]
way.
** [[spoiler: Bruce had fixed the autopilot, but hadn't told anyone, allowing him to fake his death because everyone watching would assume he had to be at the controls. This is why Lucius looked so surprised at the end when the technicians told him Bruce had patched the software.]]
software.
** [[spoiler: I'm actually more curious about how Bruce got the bomb so far out to sea in the limited time he had. Can't quite remember the details, but I think Pavel or Bane mentioned that the blast radius was around 50ish miles, and the timer was hitting 5 minutes when the reactor was cabled to the Bat. Judging from its flight scenes, I highly doubt it's capable of hitting speeds of 600mph, not when the fastest helicopters only hit 250 mph, and propeller aircraft manage just over 500mph. ]]



*** Batman is known for being CrazyPrepared. [[spoiler:In this case, that preparation allowed the Batman to "die" and immortalize the symbol, while allowing Bruce Wayne to move on with with his new love, Selina Kyle. The Lucius scene is like the Gordon scene (where a fixed Bat-signal indicates that Bruce Wayne didn't die), and Alfred's scene (actually seeing Bruce and Selina in that cafe.) So finding the autopilot had been fixed months prior is an indication that Bruce used it as his ticket out of the costumed vigilante life.]]

to:

*** Batman is known for being CrazyPrepared. [[spoiler:In In this case, that preparation allowed the Batman to "die" and immortalize the symbol, while allowing Bruce Wayne to move on with with his new love, Selina Kyle. The Lucius scene is like the Gordon scene (where a fixed Bat-signal indicates that Bruce Wayne didn't die), and Alfred's scene (actually seeing Bruce and Selina in that cafe.) So finding the autopilot had been fixed months prior is an indication that Bruce used it as his ticket out of the costumed vigilante life.]]



** Since [[spoiler: Talia]] is the one calling the shots, I guess [[spoiler: she]] was waiting for all the pieces to come in place. [[spoiler: They had to wait for Bruce to sink his company into the building of a fusion reactor, and then become desperate enough to hand over control of the company to Talia. They had to get Bruce's fingerprints in order to sink Bruce's company. They had to spend time and resources finding the one scientist who could turn the reactor into a weapon, and locate Wayne's armory.]]
** [[spoiler: She also needed time to establish her Miranda Tate identity, and work her way into a position to take control of Wayne Enterprises.]]

to:

** Since [[spoiler: Talia]] Talia is the one calling the shots, I guess [[spoiler: she]] she was waiting for all the pieces to come in place. [[spoiler: They had to wait for Bruce to sink his company into the building of a fusion reactor, and then become desperate enough to hand over control of the company to Talia. They had to get Bruce's fingerprints in order to sink Bruce's company. They had to spend time and resources finding the one scientist who could turn the reactor into a weapon, and locate Wayne's armory.]]
armory.
** [[spoiler: She also needed time to establish her Miranda Tate identity, and work her way into a position to take control of Wayne Enterprises.]]



** Considering they had [[spoiler:several sites of explosive-laden concrete around the city and the field and bridges, it may have taken that long to get set up without drawing attention.]]

to:

** Considering they had [[spoiler:several several sites of explosive-laden concrete around the city and the field and bridges, it may have taken that long to get set up without drawing attention.]]



** Wait, [[spoiler:at the end of the movie it was revealed that the auto pilot on the Bat had been fixed months ago.]] Maybe he just called for a ride.

to:

** Wait, [[spoiler:at at the end of the movie it was revealed that the auto pilot on the Bat had been fixed months ago.]] ago. Maybe he just called for a ride.



** His frequent-flyer miles. Plus, he's Bruce Wayne, no need of ID to corroborate his identity (and right to his accumulated mileage). As for how [[spoiler: he entered Gotham, I guess the Underground Train tunnels his family built during the Civil War. Which raises a second question...]]

to:

** His frequent-flyer miles. Plus, he's Bruce Wayne, no need of ID to corroborate his identity (and right to his accumulated mileage). As for how [[spoiler: he entered Gotham, I guess the Underground Train tunnels his family built during the Civil War. Which raises a second question...]]



** The Joker only likes causing trouble if Batman is around. Batman wasn't around for over eight years, and once he was around again, he promptly disappeared again. Then, once he came back again, it looked like [[spoiler: he got himself nuked.]] Joker is probably in a cell somewhere mumbling stuff about how it wasn't fair that he couldn't play his game with Batman again.

to:

** The Joker only likes causing trouble if Batman is around. Batman wasn't around for over eight years, and once he was around again, he promptly disappeared again. Then, once he came back again, it looked like [[spoiler: he got himself nuked.]] nuked. Joker is probably in a cell somewhere mumbling stuff about how it wasn't fair that he couldn't play his game with Batman again.



** I like to imagine that one of Bane's goons found the Joker and straight up shot him in the head, Possibly on Bane [[spoiler:or Talia's]] orders, simply because he was such a threat, and Bane [[spoiler:and Talia]] couldn't have a crazy madman changing or ruining their plans.

to:

** I like to imagine that one of Bane's goons found the Joker and straight up shot him in the head, Possibly on Bane [[spoiler:or Talia's]] or Talia's orders, simply because he was such a threat, and Bane [[spoiler:and Talia]] and Talia couldn't have a crazy madman changing or ruining their plans.



* So wait. After the climax, [[spoiler: Batman is presumed dead and Bruce's will is left to various things. When did he set this up? After coming back to Gotham, before he got ready for the final battle? If so, it seems weird that he would trust Blake with the entire freaking Batcave given that Blake hadn't truly proven his worth until the final battle. And on a side note, how is Blake going to live up to the mantle without any prior training? He's a cop, not a martial artist/stealth agent like Bruce.]]
** For now, I'm gonna justify that first thing with [[spoiler:the clean slate (specifically, some unknown function Bruce uses to alter his will before the authorities get around to collecting it]]. As for the side note, [[spoiler:Blake had some pretty badass disarms, and he has all the time in the world to grow into the role in full, assuming the bad guys lay low for a while after their city was nearly blown up]].
** [[spoiler:The only significant changes to the will that we see is that heirlooms from the house are sold off to cover any existing debt, and the estate is given to Gotham to be used as a home for at-risk youth. Considering these developments occur early in the movie, it wouldn't be hard for Bruce to revise his will once he decided to be Batman again. The debt part of the will could put the rewrite after he goes broke, but it also could have been a standard "in case of" clause in his original will. Bruce could have written the note to Robin about the Batcave around the same time and it would have been less about finding a suitably skilled replacement and more about finding a kindred spirit. Not being a ninja, Robin would definitely be a different sort of caped crusader, of course, but we may never know what type...]]

to:

* So wait. After the climax, [[spoiler: Batman is presumed dead and Bruce's will is left to various things. When did he set this up? After coming back to Gotham, before he got ready for the final battle? If so, it seems weird that he would trust Blake with the entire freaking Batcave given that Blake hadn't truly proven his worth until the final battle. And on a side note, how is Blake going to live up to the mantle without any prior training? He's a cop, not a martial artist/stealth agent like Bruce.]]
Bruce.
** For now, I'm gonna justify that first thing with [[spoiler:the the clean slate (specifically, some unknown function Bruce uses to alter his will before the authorities get around to collecting it]]. it. As for the side note, [[spoiler:Blake Blake had some pretty badass disarms, and he has all the time in the world to grow into the role in full, assuming the bad guys lay low for a while after their city was nearly blown up]].
up.
** [[spoiler:The The only significant changes to the will that we see is that heirlooms from the house are sold off to cover any existing debt, and the estate is given to Gotham to be used as a home for at-risk youth. Considering these developments occur early in the movie, it wouldn't be hard for Bruce to revise his will once he decided to be Batman again. The debt part of the will could put the rewrite after he goes broke, but it also could have been a standard "in case of" clause in his original will. Bruce could have written the note to Robin about the Batcave around the same time and it would have been less about finding a suitably skilled replacement and more about finding a kindred spirit. Not being a ninja, Robin would definitely be a different sort of caped crusader, of course, but we may never know what type...]]



** Leaving aside the debate whether Bruce has the near-omnipotent and limitless resources of his comicbook counterpart, Blake isn't exactly some random schmuck Bruce pulled in off the street. He's a trained police officer, a talented detective, and an all-round resourceful and intelligent guy. Okay, so he hasn't travelled halfway around the world to be trained by ninjas, but it's not nothing either. He's got a foundation to build on.



* Did Bane [[spoiler: and Talia plan on dying when the bomb went off? They were clearly in the radius of the explosion when Talia fails to make the detonator work]].

to:

* Did Bane [[spoiler: and Talia plan on dying when the bomb went off? They were clearly in the radius of the explosion when Talia fails to make the detonator work]].work.



* How did the Bat survive the [[spoiler:nuclear blast?]] It's clearly the same one that Batman piloted since the Wayne Enterprises technician [[spoiler:said the autopilot was fixed on it.]]

to:

* How did the Bat survive the [[spoiler:nuclear blast?]] nuclear blast? It's clearly the same one that Batman piloted since the Wayne Enterprises technician [[spoiler:said said the autopilot was fixed on it.]]



* Ra's al Ghul wanted to destroy Gotham because of its corruption. Why does Bane want to destroy Gotham? The Dent Act had already ended all the corruption in the city. He clearly isn't doing it to "give the city back to the people", either, since [[spoiler:"the people" will be killed along with everybody else by the fusion bomb.]]

to:

* Ra's al Ghul wanted to destroy Gotham because of its corruption. Why does Bane want to destroy Gotham? The Dent Act had already ended all the corruption in the city. He clearly isn't doing it to "give the city back to the people", either, since [[spoiler:"the "the people" will be killed along with everybody else by the fusion bomb.]]



*** Bruce's [[spoiler: hallucination of Ra's]] also mentions that despite Bruce believing he could save Gotham, "the only victory you achieved was a lie." Thus, Gotham may have changed in terms of power, but it is still seen from that point-of-view as diseased land that must be destroyed in order to bring back balance ("When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural", as Ra's says in ''Begins'').

to:

*** Bruce's [[spoiler: hallucination of Ra's]] Ra's also mentions that despite Bruce believing he could save Gotham, "the only victory you achieved was a lie." Thus, Gotham may have changed in terms of power, but it is still seen from that point-of-view as diseased land that must be destroyed in order to bring back balance ("When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable and natural", as Ra's says in ''Begins'').



* So [[spoiler: John Blake has inherited the Batcave. But he isn't a billionaire, and Wayne Enterprises is broke, so Lucius Fox won't be able to support him as Nightwing/Robin even if he asked him to.]]

to:

* So [[spoiler: John Blake has inherited the Batcave. But he isn't a billionaire, and Wayne Enterprises is broke, so Lucius Fox won't be able to support him as Nightwing/Robin even if he asked him to.]]



** Related headscratcher: [[spoiler: Blake doesn't have the League of Shadows training that Bruce has, so how could he possibly live up to Batman's legacy?]]
*** [[spoiler: Blake may not be an uber-ninja, but he's definitely street-smart and is a ''trained police officer''. Cops generally have to have ''some'' form of basic hand-to-hand training in order to do his job properly. Furthermore, this training that Blake undoubtedly has can be expanded upon through further training and expansion of his knowledge.]]
*** Another related headscratcher: [[spoiler: Where in the world is Blake going to live from now on and is he going to have a secret identity or is he going to be Batman 24/7?]]

to:

** Related headscratcher: [[spoiler: Blake doesn't have the League of Shadows training that Bruce has, so how could he possibly live up to Batman's legacy?]]
legacy?
*** [[spoiler: Blake may not be an uber-ninja, but he's definitely street-smart and is a ''trained police officer''. Cops generally have to have ''some'' form of basic hand-to-hand training in order to do his job properly. Furthermore, this training that Blake undoubtedly has can be expanded upon through further training and expansion of his knowledge.]]
knowledge.
*** Another related headscratcher: [[spoiler: Where in the world is Blake going to live from now on and is he going to have a secret identity or is he going to be Batman 24/7?]]



* This may seem stupid but was Bane [[spoiler: a prisoner]] or a [[spoiler: guard]]? In the flashback his outfit did not match what the prisoners wore when Bruce was there and it's referred to as a [[spoiler: guard]] on the main page.
** I was under the impression that there is actually no guard in the pit. The old man told Bruce that "This is Bane's prison now" probably implies that after [[spoiler: the League of Shadows]] took over the pit, they put Bane in charge. Also Bane does wear the same clothing of the other prisoners. The only distinction between them and [[spoiler: Talia]] is that [[spoiler: she]] did not cover [[spoiler: her]] face.

to:

* This may seem stupid but was Bane [[spoiler: a prisoner]] prisoner or a [[spoiler: guard]]? guard? In the flashback his outfit did not match what the prisoners wore when Bruce was there and it's referred to as a [[spoiler: guard]] guard on the main page.
** I was under the impression that there is actually no guard in the pit. The old man told Bruce that "This is Bane's prison now" probably implies that after [[spoiler: the League of Shadows]] Shadows took over the pit, they put Bane in charge. Also Bane does wear the same clothing of the other prisoners. The only distinction between them and [[spoiler: Talia]] Talia is that [[spoiler: she]] she did not cover [[spoiler: her]] her face.



* So, Bruce knows that [[spoiler: Ra's al Ghul is the soldier whose wife ended up in the prison]] because of a ''hallucination''. What?
** He knows the following: a. Someone who was born in the prison was strongly connected to [[spoiler: Ra's al Ghul]]. b. That someone's mother was put there because of an affair with a mercenary. c. [[spoiler: Ra's al Ghul]] lost his wife to tragic circumstances. He just put two and two together.

to:

* So, Bruce knows that [[spoiler: Ra's al Ghul is the soldier whose wife ended up in the prison]] prison because of a ''hallucination''. What?
** He knows the following: a. Someone who was born in the prison was strongly connected to [[spoiler: Ra's al Ghul]].Ghul. b. That someone's mother was put there because of an affair with a mercenary. c. [[spoiler: Ra's al Ghul]] Ghul lost his wife to tragic circumstances. He just put two and two together.



* The problematic assumption that a man and a woman cannot care for each other platonically coloring a lot of the [[spoiler: Talia and Bane]] discussion makes me scratch my head. If they ''were'' lovers, wouldn't the moment when [[spoiler: Talia]] very specifically calls [[spoiler: Bane]] "my friend" have been the perfect opportunity for a twisted MythologyGag where [[spoiler: she finally calls someone who isn't Batman 'beloved']]? Especially when we have an established example of a older (British) man caring for a young child without any parents and loving that child above all else: [[spoiler: Bane]] isn't [[spoiler: Talia's boyfriend, he's her ''Alfred'']].
** I thought I'd misheard the explanation (there were two "Twilight Girls" behind me who kept talking whenever [[MrFanservice Batman]] was offscreen). I mean, I've heard of [[spoiler:MayDecemberRomance, but, guys, Bane was an adult when he looked after little Talia. If, after that, [[ParentalSubstitute he loved her as anything but a daughter]], that wouldn't that just be a ''bit'' awkward]]?
*** Their relationship could have eventually evolved [[spoiler:from child/guardian to romantic over the years. Say Bane was 20 and Talia was 11. Not cool. But fast-forward ten years-- Bane is 30, and Talia is 21.]] Nothing wrong with that.
*** [[spoiler: Talia]] specifically says that the reason that Ra's kicked Bane out of the League of Shadows was because [[spoiler: Bane loved Talia]].It frankly does not make sense that Ra's would be that upset over that if we were talking about a platonic devotion. If anything, Ra's would have seen that as a ''good'' thing.
*** Didn't [[spoiler: Talia]] specifically say before that Bane was a constant reminder of how Ra's had been unable to protect his wife [[spoiler: and child]]? I'd argue that a platonic devotion would definitely agitate that: [[spoiler: Bane was the father to her that Ra's couldn't be. When Talia would look at Bane, she'd see a protector, a guide, everything a father should be. Looking at Ra's, she'd see at best the man who runs the League of Shadows and at worst the man who abandoned her and her mother to the Pit.]] They're [[EvilCounterpart evil counterparts]] of [[spoiler: Bruce and Alfred]], so put it in [[spoiler: Wayne]] terms: [[spoiler: imagine Thomas was neglectful, only to find that (in his absence) Bruce had grown to consider Alfred his father. Even a good man would be wounded and Ra's... wasn't.]]
*** I think it's worth pointing out that neither [[spoiler: Bane or Talia]] are very psychologically healthy people. Awkward and problematic to us non-villains, yeah, but to them--who knows?

to:

* The problematic assumption that a man and a woman cannot care for each other platonically coloring a lot of the [[spoiler: Talia and Bane]] Bane discussion makes me scratch my head. If they ''were'' lovers, wouldn't the moment when [[spoiler: Talia]] Talia very specifically calls [[spoiler: Bane]] Bane "my friend" have been the perfect opportunity for a twisted MythologyGag where [[spoiler: she finally calls someone who isn't Batman 'beloved']]? 'beloved'? Especially when we have an established example of a older (British) man caring for a young child without any parents and loving that child above all else: [[spoiler: Bane]] Bane isn't [[spoiler: Talia's boyfriend, he's her ''Alfred'']].
''Alfred''.
** I thought I'd misheard the explanation (there were two "Twilight Girls" behind me who kept talking whenever [[MrFanservice Batman]] was offscreen). I mean, I've heard of [[spoiler:MayDecemberRomance, MayDecemberRomance, but, guys, Bane was an adult when he looked after little Talia. If, after that, [[ParentalSubstitute he loved her as anything but a daughter]], that wouldn't that just be a ''bit'' awkward]]?
awkward?
*** Their relationship could have eventually evolved [[spoiler:from from child/guardian to romantic over the years. Say Bane was 20 and Talia was 11. Not cool. But fast-forward ten years-- Bane is 30, and Talia is 21.]] Nothing wrong with that.
*** [[spoiler: Talia]] Talia specifically says that the reason that Ra's kicked Bane out of the League of Shadows was because [[spoiler: Bane loved Talia]].Talia.It frankly does not make sense that Ra's would be that upset over that if we were talking about a platonic devotion. If anything, Ra's would have seen that as a ''good'' thing.
*** Didn't [[spoiler: Talia]] Talia specifically say before that Bane was a constant reminder of how Ra's had been unable to protect his wife [[spoiler: and child]]? child? I'd argue that a platonic devotion would definitely agitate that: [[spoiler: Bane was the father to her that Ra's couldn't be. When Talia would look at Bane, she'd see a protector, a guide, everything a father should be. Looking at Ra's, she'd see at best the man who runs the League of Shadows and at worst the man who abandoned her and her mother to the Pit.]] They're [[EvilCounterpart evil counterparts]] of [[spoiler: Bruce and Alfred]], Alfred, so put it in [[spoiler: Wayne]] Wayne terms: [[spoiler: imagine Thomas was neglectful, only to find that (in his absence) Bruce had grown to consider Alfred his father. Even a good man would be wounded and Ra's... wasn't.]]
wasn't.
*** I think it's worth pointing out that neither [[spoiler: Bane or Talia]] Talia are very psychologically healthy people. Awkward and problematic to us non-villains, yeah, but to them--who knows?



** Two reasons: 1)[[spoiler: he wanted the people of Gotham City to be seen as having devoured each other as a message to the rest of the world]] and 2) [[spoiler: Talia wanted to make the man who killed her father suffer as much as she possibly could. Part of the scene where that was spelled out is in the trailer - "Your punishment must be more severe."]]
** This is rather specifically explained: [[spoiler: Bane was giving the same treatment to the people of Gotham that the people of the Pit endured: They could see the exit, they knew it existed, but they could not reach it. He was doing the cruelest thing of all: giving them false hope. He was showing them that if they just abided by his rules, did what he told them they should do, then the bomb wouldn't go off. That's the hope. The fact that the bomb would kill them all anyway was the false hope: by making them believe that there WAS a way out, when in fact there was NOT, he was inflicting terrible mental torture, making the people suffer even though they didn't know it.]]

to:

** Two reasons: 1)[[spoiler: he 1)he wanted the people of Gotham City to be seen as having devoured each other as a message to the rest of the world]] world and 2) [[spoiler: Talia wanted to make the man who killed her father suffer as much as she possibly could. Part of the scene where that was spelled out is in the trailer - "Your punishment must be more severe."]]
"
** This is rather specifically explained: [[spoiler: Bane was giving the same treatment to the people of Gotham that the people of the Pit endured: They could see the exit, they knew it existed, but they could not reach it. He was doing the cruelest thing of all: giving them false hope. He was showing them that if they just abided by his rules, did what he told them they should do, then the bomb wouldn't go off. That's the hope. The fact that the bomb would kill them all anyway was the false hope: by making them believe that there WAS a way out, when in fact there was NOT, he was inflicting terrible mental torture, making the people suffer even though they didn't know it.]]



* What is [[spoiler: Talia]]'s goal in having a romance with Bruce? She goes as far as to suggest they run away together. By that point she owns the company and hence I wonder why she would even bother if she was just going to do away with him later.

to:

* What is [[spoiler: Talia]]'s Talia's goal in having a romance with Bruce? She goes as far as to suggest they run away together. By that point she owns the company and hence I wonder why she would even bother if she was just going to do away with him later.



** He's being metaphorical. The darkness is a state of mind. He was born in the darkness, namely in a place of evil and despair, and when he got into the light, the world of the normal people, it blinded him; he couldn't fit in. Of course it's unclear [[spoiler:whether he actually was born in the prison or not, considering that the backstory was Talia's, not his, but it still works because he wouldn't have been born to a nice place, regardless of how he ended up in the prison]]. Anyway, he is just being poetic, and he can fight in the dark as well as Batman because he was trained in the League of friggin' Shadows.
** Also, it's [[spoiler:a clue to the fact that Bane isn't really the child who escaped.]]
** [[spoiler:It could technically be true as well, the man he was, who was a good man who saved a child died there, and the injuries he received and her coming back for him was the moment 'Bane' was created.]]

to:

** He's being metaphorical. The darkness is a state of mind. He was born in the darkness, namely in a place of evil and despair, and when he got into the light, the world of the normal people, it blinded him; he couldn't fit in. Of course it's unclear [[spoiler:whether whether he actually was born in the prison or not, considering that the backstory was Talia's, not his, but it still works because he wouldn't have been born to a nice place, regardless of how he ended up in the prison]].prison. Anyway, he is just being poetic, and he can fight in the dark as well as Batman because he was trained in the League of friggin' Shadows.
** Also, it's [[spoiler:a a clue to the fact that Bane isn't really the child who escaped.]]
escaped.
** [[spoiler:It It could technically be true as well, the man he was, who was a good man who saved a child died there, and the injuries he received and her coming back for him was the moment 'Bane' was created.]]



** I assumed that Bane was referring to how he was "born" ''as Bane'', rather than given birth to: still trapped in the prison, knowing [[spoiler: he'd failed to protect Talia's mother and uncertain if Talia herself had survived to reach safety]], deprived of the child's affection that'd made his own captivity bearable, abused by resentful fellow-prisoners, in constant physical agony, and denied even a glimpse of light because of the bandages swathing his mutilated face. Who can even blame the guy for wanting to bury his old identity, becoming someone new, strong, and imperviously Badass, under those circumstances?

to:

** I assumed that Bane was referring to how he was "born" ''as Bane'', rather than given birth to: still trapped in the prison, knowing [[spoiler: he'd failed to protect Talia's mother and uncertain if Talia herself had survived to reach safety]], safety, deprived of the child's affection that'd made his own captivity bearable, abused by resentful fellow-prisoners, in constant physical agony, and denied even a glimpse of light because of the bandages swathing his mutilated face. Who can even blame the guy for wanting to bury his old identity, becoming someone new, strong, and imperviously Badass, under those circumstances?



*** The name comes from a really old comic strip where the Joker stole a boy's report card, it's a small MythologyGag to [[spoiler: hide his identity for the big reveal at the end.]]

to:

*** The name comes from a really old comic strip where the Joker stole a boy's report card, it's a small MythologyGag to [[spoiler: hide his identity for the big reveal at the end.]]



** Though in a more specific, individual sense, both Bane and [[spoiler: Talia]] prove the Joker's point about how bad experience can bring any given individual down to his(and Batman's) level, just like Harvey.

to:

** Though in a more specific, individual sense, both Bane and [[spoiler: Talia]] Talia prove the Joker's point about how bad experience can bring any given individual down to his(and Batman's) level, just like Harvey.



* Is anyone else ''not'' seeing any Occupy Wall Street parallels? Bane's talk about how the system is corrupt is in keeping with the League of Shadows' beliefs, Selina's warning about the fate of Gotham's elite could easily just be her venting about her life so far, there's no proof the looting and evictions were by the people of Gotham and not the mercenaries[[spoiler:/Talia's inferiors in the League of Shadows]] or the convicts Bane released...

to:

* Is anyone else ''not'' seeing any Occupy Wall Street parallels? Bane's talk about how the system is corrupt is in keeping with the League of Shadows' beliefs, Selina's warning about the fate of Gotham's elite could easily just be her venting about her life so far, there's no proof the looting and evictions were by the people of Gotham and not the mercenaries[[spoiler:/Talia's mercenaries/Talia's inferiors in the League of Shadows]] Shadows or the convicts Bane released...



* The people in the Pit are mostly pretty helpful to Batman. However, they would have been a whole lot more helpful if they'd mentioned the child who escaped from the pit was [[spoiler: a ''she'']].

to:

* The people in the Pit are mostly pretty helpful to Batman. However, they would have been a whole lot more helpful if they'd mentioned the child who escaped from the pit was [[spoiler: a ''she'']].''she''.



** And even if they had, Bruce wouldn't have known that the child was [[spoiler: Miranda]].

to:

** And even if they had, Bruce wouldn't have known that the child was [[spoiler: Miranda]].Miranda.



** [[spoiler: It ''is'' possible that they just didn't know it was a girl. It is heavily implied that when Talia and Ra's rescued Bane from the Pit, the League of Shadows slaughter all the prisoners in there and begin replacing them with enemies of the League (which makes sense considering that the men in there murdered Talia's mother/Ra's wife and tried to rape Talia so they probably would both want revenge). The story of the child that escaped could have been passed along, but no one necessarily could have mentioned that the child was Talia, only that the child's protector was Bane, the man who is now in charge of the Pit. So like a former Troper said, it was legend to them. True legend, but legend nonetheless.]]
*** That doesn't work; the doctor( that is, the guy slumped up against the wall/bars the whole time who tells Bruce to jump without the rope) is specifically pointed out as the guy who delivered [[spoiler: Talia]] as a baby, the guy who forgot to lock the cell door leading to [[spoiler: her]] mother's death, and the guy who botched Bane's surgery. The other guy(the one who punches Bruce's spine back into place) may have not been there at the time, but the doctor was.
*** "The guy who forgot to lock the cell door leading to [[spoiler: her]] mother's death". Why would a prisoner have the keys to the cells? The doctor was probably a prison guard, not a prisoner; it's not unthinkable that after the explicitly stated massacre of the prisoners, the guards and propagators of the prison were the first enemies of the League of Shadows to be imprisoned. Ra's al Ghul did seem a little fond of bitter irony; it's the prison's equivalent of using Bruce's father's monorail to kill Gotham.

to:

** [[spoiler: It ''is'' possible that they just didn't know it was a girl. It is heavily implied that when Talia and Ra's rescued Bane from the Pit, the League of Shadows slaughter all the prisoners in there and begin replacing them with enemies of the League (which makes sense considering that the men in there murdered Talia's mother/Ra's wife and tried to rape Talia so they probably would both want revenge). The story of the child that escaped could have been passed along, but no one necessarily could have mentioned that the child was Talia, only that the child's protector was Bane, the man who is now in charge of the Pit. So like a former Troper said, it was legend to them. True legend, but legend nonetheless.]]
nonetheless.
*** That doesn't work; the doctor( that is, the guy slumped up against the wall/bars the whole time who tells Bruce to jump without the rope) is specifically pointed out as the guy who delivered [[spoiler: Talia]] Talia as a baby, the guy who forgot to lock the cell door leading to [[spoiler: her]] her mother's death, and the guy who botched Bane's surgery. The other guy(the one who punches Bruce's spine back into place) may have not been there at the time, but the doctor was.
*** "The guy who forgot to lock the cell door leading to [[spoiler: her]] her mother's death". Why would a prisoner have the keys to the cells? The doctor was probably a prison guard, not a prisoner; it's not unthinkable that after the explicitly stated massacre of the prisoners, the guards and propagators of the prison were the first enemies of the League of Shadows to be imprisoned. Ra's al Ghul did seem a little fond of bitter irony; it's the prison's equivalent of using Bruce's father's monorail to kill Gotham.



*** One of his main concerns with breaking it is that he would attempt to justify it at other times. [[spoiler: He ceased to be Batman after this and can as such not break it again.]]

to:

*** One of his main concerns with breaking it is that he would attempt to justify it at other times. [[spoiler: He ceased to be Batman after this and can as such not break it again.]]



* [[spoiler: Two questions. One, why were there no guards at the prison where Bruce was taken? Two, how did he get back to Gotham in the short amount of time the film showed, even though Gotham was completely sealed off?]]
** The fact that a guy like Bane can simply waltz in and out of the place to me implies that it isn't a prison in the official sense; it's a place that was built by whatever nearby warlord there is as a dumping ground for people they don't like. The only way in or out is through the top, itself only accessible via an extremely treacherous climb up. They don't have guards because they figure it doesn't ''need'' them. There have been a grand total of two escapees ([[spoiler: Bruce included]]), and they were both under extraordinary circumstances, and I highly doubt they give two shits about the well-being of the inmates. As for your second point, although the film may not convey it too well, the whole second act of the movie takes place over a five month period, there's a good chance that Bruce actually escaped a good while earlier than the film implies, they just kept it around the same speed for the sake of pacing.
** [[spoiler: Bruce escapes about 21 days before the bomb goes off, giving him about 19 days to get back to Gotham since he arrives with ~18 hours to go, meaning he spent 4 and a half months in the cell training for the climb.]]
*** [[spoiler: Well that sounds difficult, but far from impossible for a guy like Bruce Wayne to pull off in under three weeks, and although this delves a bit into fan wankery there's always the added probability that he planned his escape further ahead off-screen; probably asking his doctors where the prison is roughly located and if there are any nearby settlements for him to go to for further navigation.]]

to:

* [[spoiler: Two questions. One, why were there no guards at the prison where Bruce was taken? Two, how did he get back to Gotham in the short amount of time the film showed, even though Gotham was completely sealed off?]]
off?
** The fact that a guy like Bane can simply waltz in and out of the place to me implies that it isn't a prison in the official sense; it's a place that was built by whatever nearby warlord there is as a dumping ground for people they don't like. The only way in or out is through the top, itself only accessible via an extremely treacherous climb up. They don't have guards because they figure it doesn't ''need'' them. There have been a grand total of two escapees ([[spoiler: Bruce included]]), (Bruce included), and they were both under extraordinary circumstances, and I highly doubt they give two shits about the well-being of the inmates. As for your second point, although the film may not convey it too well, the whole second act of the movie takes place over a five month period, there's a good chance that Bruce actually escaped a good while earlier than the film implies, they just kept it around the same speed for the sake of pacing.
** [[spoiler: Bruce escapes about 21 days before the bomb goes off, giving him about 19 days to get back to Gotham since he arrives with ~18 hours to go, meaning he spent 4 and a half months in the cell training for the climb.]]
climb.
*** [[spoiler: Well that sounds difficult, but far from impossible for a guy like Bruce Wayne to pull off in under three weeks, and although this delves a bit into fan wankery there's always the added probability that he planned his escape further ahead off-screen; probably asking his doctors where the prison is roughly located and if there are any nearby settlements for him to go to for further navigation.]]



*** Sorry, but [[spoiler: Bruce's disappearance at the end of the movie is justified by saying he died in Gotham during the chaos]]. During the entire five-month period Gotham was under Bane's rule, Bruce Wayne could not have been seen by anyone, otherwise that explanation would not work; since he was outside of a city no one could go in or out of, him being outside the city would shoot a massive hole through the official cover. Therefore, Bruce Wayne could not have used any means that involved being "Bruce Wayne", and had to find his way back and into the city without using his identity (or even being recognized).

to:

*** Sorry, but [[spoiler: Bruce's disappearance at the end of the movie is justified by saying he died in Gotham during the chaos]].chaos. During the entire five-month period Gotham was under Bane's rule, Bruce Wayne could not have been seen by anyone, otherwise that explanation would not work; since he was outside of a city no one could go in or out of, him being outside the city would shoot a massive hole through the official cover. Therefore, Bruce Wayne could not have used any means that involved being "Bruce Wayne", and had to find his way back and into the city without using his identity (or even being recognized).



* So Bruce Wayne is [[spoiler: declared officially dead at the end of the movie, and Bruce moves to Italy with Selina]]. Great wrap-up ending... until someone with a camera phone sees arguably one of the (in-universe) world's most famous men hiding in plain sight and snaps a photo. Whoops.

to:

* So Bruce Wayne is [[spoiler: declared officially dead at the end of the movie, and Bruce moves to Italy with Selina]].Selina. Great wrap-up ending... until someone with a camera phone sees arguably one of the (in-universe) world's most famous men hiding in plain sight and snaps a photo. Whoops.



*** For example, ''Bruce Wayne.'' Or... James Gordon. Hell, [[spoiler:Robin]] John Blake has nothing BUT first names!

to:

*** For example, ''Bruce Wayne.'' Or... James Gordon. Hell, [[spoiler:Robin]] Robin John Blake has nothing BUT first names!



* Exactly how old is Bane? His comments on Batman "fighting like a younger man" refer more to Batman's relentless effort despite being out of the game for eight years, but it's implied that he's younger or the same age as Batman. Yet [[spoiler: Miranda/Talia is shown to be close to Bruce' age (who's pushing 40 at the start of the film), and Bane looked to be at least 20 in the flashback showing a no-older-than-8 year old Talia.]]
** I got the impression that Bane is older than Batman [[spoiler: but the movie deliberately misleads us as to his age to make us think he's Ra's al Ghul's son, as a RedHerring to cover for Talia]]. That mask covers so much of his face, and distorts his voice so much, it's hard to tell how old he really is.

to:

* Exactly how old is Bane? His comments on Batman "fighting like a younger man" refer more to Batman's relentless effort despite being out of the game for eight years, but it's implied that he's younger or the same age as Batman. Yet [[spoiler: Miranda/Talia is shown to be close to Bruce' age (who's pushing 40 at the start of the film), and Bane looked to be at least 20 in the flashback showing a no-older-than-8 year old Talia.]]
Talia.
** I got the impression that Bane is older than Batman [[spoiler: but the movie deliberately misleads us as to his age to make us think he's Ra's al Ghul's son, as a RedHerring to cover for Talia]].Talia. That mask covers so much of his face, and distorts his voice so much, it's hard to tell how old he really is.



** Bane's comment has nothing to do with Bane's own age; Bane is mocking Batman by saying that Batman is acting like he hasn't been away for eight years and gotten older and rusty. Essentially, Batman is being overconfident about his own abilities and ignoring the fact that he's not quite as sharp as he once was, whereas Bane -- however old he might be -- is aware of both his strengths ''and'' his weaknesses and is acting accordingly.



* How is it that no one deduced that the rope actually pulls the climber back when making the leap to the next platform? Especially after [[spoiler:Talia]] figured it out by accident and made a pretty fussy example of herself?

to:

* How is it that no one deduced that the rope actually pulls the climber back when making the leap to the next platform? Especially after [[spoiler:Talia]] Talia figured it out by accident and made a pretty fussy example of herself?



*** From the shot of Bane [[spoiler: when he gets rescued by Ra's and the league]] we see that there's blood on the bandages on his nose and jaw, so I'm guessing he has permament nerve damage from the botched surgery.

to:

*** From the shot of Bane [[spoiler: when he gets rescued by Ra's and the league]] league we see that there's blood on the bandages on his nose and jaw, so I'm guessing he has permament nerve damage from the botched surgery.



** The League of Shadows is a very dogmatic organization; once a city reaches a certain level of corruption, both moral and legal, they believe the only way to fix it is by destroying it. Their reaction to the Dent Act getting passed would be denial and disbelief; it has to be a fraud because Gotham's not a crater, so it has to still be corrupt. Also, WordOfGod is that the city still is very corrupt, just not infested with the mafia. It's idyllic on the surface, but you look below the surface and it all starts falling apart. The league was scoping out Gotham for eight years before enacting plan b, so they would have figured this out fairly quickly even without specific knowledge of the Dent cover up. Thirdly, the corruption of the city is secondary; Bane [[spoiler: and Talia]] are destroying the city as one long, extended middle finger to Bruce Wayne for killing Ras. If they hadn't found out about the Dent Act they might have simply denounced it as a violation of civil liberties because that's what it is, but that doesn't matter.

to:

** The League of Shadows is a very dogmatic organization; once a city reaches a certain level of corruption, both moral and legal, they believe the only way to fix it is by destroying it. Their reaction to the Dent Act getting passed would be denial and disbelief; it has to be a fraud because Gotham's not a crater, so it has to still be corrupt. Also, WordOfGod is that the city still is very corrupt, just not infested with the mafia. It's idyllic on the surface, but you look below the surface and it all starts falling apart. The league was scoping out Gotham for eight years before enacting plan b, so they would have figured this out fairly quickly even without specific knowledge of the Dent cover up. Thirdly, the corruption of the city is secondary; Bane [[spoiler: and Talia]] Talia are destroying the city as one long, extended middle finger to Bruce Wayne for killing Ras.Ra's. If they hadn't found out about the Dent Act they might have simply denounced it as a violation of civil liberties because that's what it is, but that doesn't matter.



* In the movie, why did Bruce's charities only cover boy orphans? Why were there only boy orphans going to [[spoiler: live in the former Wayne Manor, now a boy's home]]? It feels like a jarring gender inequality question.
** The boy's home we saw in the film was likely only one of the charities that Wayne covered. We saw it because Blake has a connection to it, and as for [[spoiler: the ending, the manor doesn't specify that it only takes in boys.]]

to:

* In the movie, why did Bruce's charities only cover boy orphans? Why were there only boy orphans going to [[spoiler: live in the former Wayne Manor, now a boy's home]]? home? It feels like a jarring gender inequality question.
** The boy's home we saw in the film was likely only one of the charities that Wayne covered. We saw it because Blake has a connection to it, and as for [[spoiler: the ending, the manor doesn't specify that it only takes in boys.]]



** It isn't JUST the boy orphans, it's specifically stated that the house and grounds be used for one purpose and one purpose only for 'the housing and care of the cities at-risk and orphaned children'.

to:

** It isn't JUST the boy orphans, it's specifically stated that the house and grounds be used for one purpose and one purpose only for 'the housing and care of the cities at-risk and orphaned children'. We just happened to see the boys being moved in.



** Considering that everyone believes [[spoiler: Batman to be dead]], his involvement with Batman would be irrelevant at that point.

to:

** Considering that everyone believes [[spoiler: Batman to be dead]], dead, his involvement with Batman would be irrelevant at that point.



** Unless Gordon sits on the truth again, Wayne Enterprises built the nuke that was used to terrorize the city (and kept it in a populated area without telling anyone), and their [[spoiler: interim Chairman turned out to be the terrorists' ringleader]]. They are in for one hell of an audit.

to:

** Unless Gordon sits on the truth again, Wayne Enterprises built the nuke that was used to terrorize the city (and kept it in a populated area without telling anyone), and their [[spoiler: interim Chairman turned out to be the terrorists' ringleader]].ringleader. They are in for one hell of an audit.



* So does Batman break his no killing rule in this movie? It sure seems like he kills [[spoiler: Talia/Miranda Tate]] after he forces her to crash while shooting her. And if you think that she crashed herself or that she isn't really dead, what about when Batman blew up one of Bane's Tumbler with the Bat? I'm pretty sure that guy inside died. And for Pete's sake, Batman knocked off Bane's mask! You know the thing that is keeping him alive and unburdened with pain.

to:

* So does Batman break his no killing rule in this movie? It sure seems like he kills [[spoiler: Talia/Miranda Tate]] Tate after he forces her to crash while shooting her. And if you think that she crashed herself or that she isn't really dead, what about when Batman blew up one of Bane's Tumbler with the Bat? I'm pretty sure that guy inside died. And for Pete's sake, Batman knocked off Bane's mask! You know the thing that is keeping him alive and unburdened with pain.



** He was in a crisis situation. That bomb would kill around 12 million souls. He needed to stop that truck at any cost. And since this is a more or less realistic comic book movie there is no way to due that without somehow injuring the driver. [[spoiler: Talia's]] life at this point is the least of his worries.

to:

** He was in a crisis situation. That bomb would kill around 12 million souls. He needed to stop that truck at any cost. And since this is a more or less realistic comic book movie there is no way to due that without somehow injuring the driver. [[spoiler: Talia's]] Talia's life at this point is the least of his worries.



** He/she is talking about [[spoiler: Miranda Tate/Talia]] and I assume she didn't want bane to worry.

to:

** He/she is talking about [[spoiler: Miranda Tate/Talia]] Tate/Talia and I assume she didn't want bane to worry.



* So Bruce [[spoiler:kills off Batman]], but simultaneously [[spoiler:creates a new Batman to succeed him]]? What's the point in that? He's not ComicStrip/ThePhantom.

to:

* So Bruce [[spoiler:kills kills off Batman]], Batman, but simultaneously [[spoiler:creates creates a new Batman to succeed him]]? him? What's the point in that? He's not ComicStrip/ThePhantom.



* After Bane [[spoiler: was killed]], why didn't Batman's stab wound seem to slow him down at all? Yeah, I know, he's Batman, but the wound must have been pretty deep, since [[spoiler: Talia]] stuck [[spoiler: her]] knife in all the way to the hilt, twisted it around, and took the time to [[spoiler: tell him her backstory]] before finally pulling it out.

to:

* After Bane [[spoiler: was killed]], killed, why didn't Batman's stab wound seem to slow him down at all? Yeah, I know, he's Batman, but the wound must have been pretty deep, since [[spoiler: Talia]] Talia stuck [[spoiler: her]] her knife in all the way to the hilt, twisted it around, and took the time to [[spoiler: tell him her backstory]] backstory before finally pulling it out.



* Why is there no normal person viewpoint character? In ''The Dark Knight'', we had Rachel Dawes, who more or less represented the normal good person of Gotham, but she was killed. Now, every single character in this film is either rich, a cop, or a criminal. So, in the end, while the film's makers say they aren't trying to make an Anti-Occupy film, they are by the fact that every person in the film who supposed to be considered good is rich, or helping the rich enforcing order as a cop, or is against them, and is therefore a criminal. Selina Kyle seems to be this character, but she's a thief and is always on the edge of evil. Alfred could have been this character, but he left in Act 1 and doesn't reappear until the coda. Blake is trying to be this character, but he's a cop, following orders and investigating what's going on, not showing us the common person's plight. Malcolm Fox is one of the rich, so he can't be this character. Miranda Tate seems to be this character, but she is rich and also [[spoiler: Talia Al Ghul and a terrorist criminal out to destroy Gotham.]] So, it seems as if the common person's viewpoint is lost. The closest we seem to come is the Orphans and the priest watching out after them, but they're in the film for all of five minutes, so it's hard to see their point of view.

to:

* Why is there no normal person viewpoint character? In ''The Dark Knight'', we had Rachel Dawes, who more or less represented the normal good person of Gotham, but she was killed. Now, every single character in this film is either rich, a cop, or a criminal. So, in the end, while the film's makers say they aren't trying to make an Anti-Occupy film, they are by the fact that every person in the film who supposed to be considered good is rich, or helping the rich enforcing order as a cop, or is against them, and is therefore a criminal. Selina Kyle seems to be this character, but she's a thief and is always on the edge of evil. Alfred could have been this character, but he left in Act 1 and doesn't reappear until the coda. Blake is trying to be this character, but he's a cop, following orders and investigating what's going on, not showing us the common person's plight. Malcolm Fox is one of the rich, so he can't be this character. Miranda Tate seems to be this character, but she is rich and also [[spoiler: Talia Al Ghul and a terrorist criminal out to destroy Gotham.]] Gotham. So, it seems as if the common person's viewpoint is lost. The closest we seem to come is the Orphans and the priest watching out after them, but they're in the film for all of five minutes, so it's hard to see their point of view.



* Bane says, about The Pit, that "Every man who has rotted here over the centuries has looked up to the light and imagined climbing to freedom. And like shipwrecked men turning to seawater from uncontrollable thirst, many have died trying." A little while after this monologue, they show a failed escape attempt by one of the prisoners in The Pit. The prisoner falls a distance of what has to be at least 60 feet before the rope stops his descent and he crashes into the wall. While it's hard to tell, it also appears that his body is limp and that he presumably died from the fall, going along with what Bane said. [[spoiler: But when Bruce attempts the jump and fails, he's simply lowered back down and returned to his cell.]]\\

to:

* Bane says, about The Pit, that "Every man who has rotted here over the centuries has looked up to the light and imagined climbing to freedom. And like shipwrecked men turning to seawater from uncontrollable thirst, many have died trying." A little while after this monologue, they show a failed escape attempt by one of the prisoners in The Pit. The prisoner falls a distance of what has to be at least 60 feet before the rope stops his descent and he crashes into the wall. While it's hard to tell, it also appears that his body is limp and that he presumably died from the fall, going along with what Bane said. [[spoiler: But when Bruce attempts the jump and fails, he's simply lowered back down and returned to his cell.]]\\\\



* Should the bomb's explosion really have the iconic mushroom shape, in spite of exploding [[spoiler:in midair instead of on ground level? (At least we can presume that it happened that way. Sure, Batman could have programmed the autopilot to crash the Bat into the sea, but it seems saver to just let it fly in a straight line, so that it gets as far away from the city as possible.)]]

to:

* Should the bomb's explosion really have the iconic mushroom shape, in spite of exploding [[spoiler:in in midair instead of on ground level? (At least we can presume that it happened that way. Sure, Batman could have programmed the autopilot to crash the Bat into the sea, but it seems saver to just let it fly in a straight line, so that it gets as far away from the city as possible.)]])
15th Mar '16 7:25:52 PM DoctorNemesis
Is there an issue? Send a Message

Added DiffLines:

*** They live in a movie.
This list shows the last 10 events of 1252. Show all.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Headscratchers.TheDarkKnightRises