History Headscratchers / TheDarkKnight

1st Jan '18 7:48:50 PM nombretomado
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** Of course, the ''real'' answer is: "It's HeathLedger doing it."

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** Of course, the ''real'' answer is: "It's HeathLedger Creator/HeathLedger doing it."
28th Nov '17 9:08:38 PM costanton11
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*** Um, that's because it's been set up since long before the movie started. It's the backdrop of the whole movie -- Gordon has his special case unit, embattled and officially disapproved of by his superiors and struggling for cash, using all kinds of hardcore unorthodox methods to try to cut through the red tape, and all of a sudden he achieves an amazing, dramatic success. A * hugely heroic* success, one that put his own safety at * tremendous* personal risk, a success that seems to have put away one of the most terrifying villains Gotham's ever known. As the mayor says, there's really no argument about it. It would be more surprising if the mayor * didn't* make Gordon Commissioner in the wake of such an event.

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*** Um, that's because it's been set up since long before the movie started. It's the backdrop of the whole movie -- Gordon has his special case unit, embattled and officially disapproved of by his superiors and struggling for cash, using all kinds of hardcore unorthodox methods to try to cut through the red tape, and all of a sudden he achieves an amazing, dramatic success. A * hugely heroic* ''hugely heroic'' success, one that put his own safety at * tremendous* ''tremendous'' personal risk, a success that seems to have put away one of the most terrifying villains Gotham's ever known. As the mayor says, there's really no argument about it. It would be more surprising if the mayor * didn't* ''didn't'' make Gordon Commissioner in the wake of such an event.



*** No, no he wasn't. That's not Reese at all, that's Mike Engle, the guy from the news. And Joker ''didn't'' kill those people anyway. Those were the hostages dressed up as clowns in the climax. How did you miss that?

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*** No, no he wasn't. That's not Reese at all, that's Mike Engle, the guy from the news. And Joker ''didn't'' kill those people anyway. Those were the hostages dressed up as clowns in the climax. Engle was even the guy that Batman unmasked to make that discovery. How did you miss that?
25th Nov '17 11:57:07 AM costanton11
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[[folder:Why NOT blame [[spoiler:Harvey]]?]]

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[[folder:Why NOT blame [[spoiler:Harvey]]?]][[spoiler:Harvey?]]]]



*** Cat eyes aren't the same as human eyes. Cats don't need to blink anywhere near as often as humans do. Unless he was constantly applying those eyedrops, it isn't really possible for a human.

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*** Cat eyes aren't the same as human eyes. Cats don't need to blink anywhere near as often as humans do. Unless he was constantly applying those eyedrops, which he clearly isn't, it isn't really possible for a human.


Added DiffLines:

** Maybe in Begins, they were babysitting the kid of a relative or a friend.
24th Oct '17 9:20:50 PM costanton11
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** Perhaps during the six month interval between this and Begins, he realises that a) he's never had to use the spare seat for passengers since Rachel got hit by the fear gas and b) he could do with an emergency exit if the Tumbler should suffer catastrophic failure. So he implements it into the frame of a new Tumbler prototype with Lucius' help.

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** Perhaps during the six month interval between this and Begins, he realises realizes that a) he's never had to use the spare seat for passengers since Rachel got hit by the fear gas and b) he could do with an emergency exit if the Tumbler should suffer catastrophic failure. So he implements it into the frame of a new Tumbler prototype with Lucius' help.



** They'd better include that in the next movie or something- if there is one. Somebody GRABS that cape and slings him around like a ragdoll. Or it gets caught in a revolving door or something. Or stuck to his shoe.
*** Sling him around like a ragdoll? Bane, anyone?

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** They'd better include that in the next movie or something- if there is one. Somebody GRABS that cape and slings him around like a ragdoll.rag doll. Or it gets caught in a revolving door or something. Or stuck to his shoe.
*** Sling him around like a ragdoll? rag doll? Bane, anyone?



*** Also, even if Harvey is more committed to crime fighting than Rachel (which, as mentioned above, is debatable), he's not putting on a bat suit and risking his life by going out to beat up criminals to do so, which is probably the more significant part of Rachel's rejection of Bruce. Clearly the whole Batman stuff is a pretty big dealbreaker for Rachel.

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*** Also, even if Harvey is more committed to crime fighting than Rachel (which, as mentioned above, is debatable), he's not putting on a bat suit and risking his life by going out to beat up criminals to do so, which is probably the more significant part of Rachel's rejection of Bruce. Clearly the whole Batman stuff is a pretty big dealbreaker deal breaker for Rachel.



*** I have a comic floating around where Batman is visibly distressed and gives a big "NO!" when a mobster, who just killed a young kid, accidently falls into a garbage trucks compactor.

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*** I have a comic floating around where Batman is visibly distressed and gives a big "NO!" when a mobster, who just killed a young kid, accidently accidentally falls into a garbage trucks compactor.



*** Nevermind the fact that in the comics Batman keeps and deploys thermite, C4 and hydrochloric acid amongst other things. The difference is, he doesn't use them on ''people''. He uses them to breach doors, disable vehicles, or even to take someone like Superman down a peg or two. Batman can have guns on the Tumbler and not kill anyone, and the Joker can kill someone with a pencil. It's not the weapon, it's the man wielding it who decides if it kills someone.

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*** Nevermind Never mind the fact that in the comics Batman keeps and deploys thermite, C4 and hydrochloric acid amongst other things. The difference is, he doesn't use them on ''people''. He uses them to breach doors, disable vehicles, or even to take someone like Superman down a peg or two. Batman can have guns on the Tumbler and not kill anyone, and the Joker can kill someone with a pencil. It's not the weapon, it's the man wielding it who decides if it kills someone.



*** Right before he declares that he doesn't have to save him, Batman breaks a window which Ra's could easily escape through. Ra's ''chose'' not to because he had ultimately failed. The League of Shadows had been crippled, his plan to destroy Gotham was in ruins, he has no chance of ultimate escape because he would be captured within short order, and he had ultimately been proven wrong in the idea that "doing what is necessary" means having to kill. In the face of this realisation, he chooses to accept his failure (and the resultant punishment) with quiet dignity.

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*** Right before he declares that he doesn't have to save him, Batman breaks a window which Ra's could easily escape through. Ra's ''chose'' not to because he had ultimately failed. The League of Shadows had been crippled, his plan to destroy Gotham was in ruins, he has no chance of ultimate escape because he would be captured within short order, and he had ultimately been proven wrong in the idea that "doing what is necessary" means having to kill. In the face of this realisation, realization, he chooses to accept his failure (and the resultant punishment) with quiet dignity.



*** Did you listen to the big speech afterwards? 'Until their spirit breaks completely.' The Joker had spent a great deal of time and effort breaking Harvey Dent. If you don't think your girlfriend/fiance's death, having half your face burnt off and being in horrible pain every goddamn second, all of which was caused by someone you trusted, counts as motivation to snap and go on a rampage ''especially'' considering Harvey had been shown to have something dark in him from the get go, I shudder to think what would.

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*** Did you listen to the big speech afterwards? 'Until their spirit breaks completely.' The Joker had spent a great deal of time and effort breaking Harvey Dent. If you don't think your girlfriend/fiance's girlfriend/fiancee's death, having half your face burnt off and being in horrible pain every goddamn second, all of which was caused by someone you trusted, counts as motivation to snap and go on a rampage ''especially'' considering Harvey had been shown to have something dark in him from the get go, I shudder to think what would.



[[folder:The Magic(ally Inconspicuous) Schoolbus]]
* The only part that bugged me was right at the beginning. You're telling me that you can just back a schoolbus into the front door of a bank, sit there for 10 minutes, not attract any attention, then smoothly pull out into traffic with a bunch of other schoolbuses and nobody's gonna NOTICE? Like say, the bus driver right behind him, wouldn't you think the driver might think, 'hey that's weird, why is a bus pulling out of the bank trailing rubble?'

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[[folder:The Magic(ally Inconspicuous) Schoolbus]]
School bus]]
* The only part that bugged me was right at the beginning. You're telling me that you can just back a schoolbus school bus into the front door of a bank, sit there for 10 minutes, not attract any attention, then smoothly pull out into traffic with a bunch of other schoolbuses school buses and nobody's gonna NOTICE? Like say, the bus driver right behind him, wouldn't you think the driver might think, 'hey that's weird, why is a bus pulling out of the bank trailing rubble?'



*** I counted four: Wertz, Maroni, Maroni's Driver, and the guy he does away with to get into Maroni's car. I always thought the fifth was a mistake, either by Gary Oldman (and an even bigger mistake to leave it in) or by the editors. It's entirely likely that a scene was shot in which Ramierez did die, and it was changed in editing. If that happened, it's also probable that Oldman's line was shot as "four" and "five" and the editors left the wrong one in.

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*** I counted four: Wertz, Wuertz, Maroni, Maroni's Driver, and the guy he does away with to get into Maroni's car. I always thought the fifth was a mistake, either by Gary Oldman (and an even bigger mistake to leave it in) or by the editors. It's entirely likely that a scene was shot in which Ramierez Ramirez did die, and it was changed in editing. If that happened, it's also probable that Oldman's line was shot as "four" and "five" and the editors left the wrong one in.



** It also could have been [[spoiler::the bartender with Weurtz.]] I doubt that Harvey managed to learn how to [[Main/StealthHiBye appear and disappear into thin air]] after just seeing it once.
*** Watching it again, it seems that the five deaths are as follows: [[spoiler:Wertz, the bartender, Maroni, his driver, and Dent himself.]] Assuming that Gordon knows about Ramirez, that is. If he doesn't, then [[spoiler: remove the bartender, and add Ramirez]], which is the most likely situation. He doesn't refer to people being ''murdered'', just people dead. And he simply says that there's no way to cover it all up and make Dent out to be the white knight the city needs. So, he not listing Dent's kills, he's simply stating the fact that so many dead people can't be hidden from the public. [[spoiler: which prompts Batman to state that he killed "these" people. Note the use of the word "these". He's explicitly including Dent.]]

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** It also could have been [[spoiler::the bartender with Weurtz.Wuertz.]] I doubt that Harvey managed to learn how to [[Main/StealthHiBye appear and disappear into thin air]] after just seeing it once.
*** Watching it again, it seems that the five deaths are as follows: [[spoiler:Wertz, [[spoiler:Wuertz, the bartender, Maroni, his driver, and Dent himself.]] Assuming that Gordon knows about Ramirez, that is. If he doesn't, then [[spoiler: remove the bartender, and add Ramirez]], which is the most likely situation. He doesn't refer to people being ''murdered'', just people dead. And he simply says that there's no way to cover it all up and make Dent out to be the white knight the city needs. So, he not listing Dent's kills, he's simply stating the fact that so many dead people can't be hidden from the public. [[spoiler: which prompts Batman to state that he killed "these" people. Note the use of the word "these". He's explicitly including Dent.]]



** Going back to "convoy prediction skills," remember that the Joker is hired by several factions of organised crime, who had people on the GCPD; Ramirez and Wuertz, for example. It's plausible there was someone on the force supplying the Joker with the Convoy route and possible contingencies.

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** Going back to "convoy prediction skills," remember that the Joker is hired by several factions of organised organized crime, who had people on the GCPD; Ramirez and Wuertz, for example. It's plausible there was someone on the force supplying the Joker with the Convoy route and possible contingencies.



*** What bothers me is that nobody was in the engine room of either ferry at all before the launch. You'd think there'would be crew down there making sure everything is running properly who would notice barrels full of explosives that shouldn't be there.

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*** What bothers me is that nobody was in the engine room of either ferry at all before the launch. You'd think there'would there would be crew down there making sure everything is running properly who would notice barrels full of explosives that shouldn't be there.



*** One key thing... Bruce Wayne did this behind Fox's back. That is part of the reason he had a problem with it. He took an existing "toy" and made it much, much more powerful. As for comparing it to his other toys... he could essentially see everything around him. The only thing that could have been even more powerful than seeing all of Gothan City would be predicting the future.

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*** One key thing... Bruce Wayne did this behind Fox's back. That is part of the reason he had a problem with it. He took an existing "toy" and made it much, much more powerful. As for comparing it to his other toys... he could essentially see everything around him. The only thing that could have been even more powerful than seeing all of Gothan Gotham City would be predicting the future.



*** Plus, if they want to keep the Joker behind bars, the worst thing to do is try to frame him. If a denfense attorney found proof of evidence tampering on the part of the police, they could move to get the whole case thrown out.

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*** Plus, if they want to keep the Joker behind bars, the worst thing to do is try to frame him. If a denfense defense attorney found proof of evidence tampering on the part of the police, they could move to get the whole case thrown out.



Gordon and B-man are at the warehouse Rachel died at, standing over Dent's body. Cops are about to storm the scene. They need to pin the murders on someone that a.) is a psychologically-likely suspect b.) is capable of taking out mob bosses, cops and DAs c.) is unaccountable for large periods of time d.) is capable of staying out of police custody and/or wouldn't plead innocent (which would start a massive investigation, leading back to Dent and e.) is anonymous enough that a public manhunt is possible w/o having to investigate the actual crime too closely. More passively, they have to find someway to a.)disaude future vigilantes b.) make Batman feared again and c.) remind the public that vigilantism is not an acceptable form of law enforcement. Blaming Bats is two birds, one stone.

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Gordon and B-man are at the warehouse Rachel died at, standing over Dent's body. Cops are about to storm the scene. They need to pin the murders on someone that a.) is a psychologically-likely suspect b.) is capable of taking out mob bosses, cops and DAs c.) is unaccountable for large periods of time d.) is capable of staying out of police custody and/or wouldn't plead innocent (which would start a massive investigation, leading back to Dent and e.) is anonymous enough that a public manhunt is possible w/o having to investigate the actual crime too closely. More passively, they have to find someway to a.)disaude )dissuade future vigilantes b.) make Batman feared again and c.) remind the public that vigilantism is not an acceptable form of law enforcement. Blaming Bats is two birds, one stone.



[[folder:Why NOT blame [[spoiler:Harvy]]?]]
* Going with the above headscratcher (although worthy of one of it's own), why not just tell the truth about what happened? [[spoiler:Harvy, after getting kidnapped, hearing the last moment's of his potential fiancee's life, knowing she was blown to kingdom come, and having his face horribly mutilated to an unbelievable degree just snapped and went after everybody who was involved?]] Any decent press reporter could put the spin that the white knight that [[spoiler:Harvy]] was died in the explosion and the person who committed the murders after was a different person entirely. If his white knight persona was so important, and he was as genuinely beloved as the movie makes him out to be, then most people, I would imagine, would accept this, and the REAL [[spoiler:Harvy Dent]] would live on in their hearts.
** Because then the Joker wins. He just proved that [[spoiler: [[ComicBook/TheKillingJoke anyone could become just like him with just one bad day.]] The entire movie was a fight for Gotham's soul. If Harvey Dent was outed as the one responsible, then it would prove to the citizens of Gotham that even the best of them was capable to becoming a monster and a killer. Everything Harvey had stood for would become a hypocrisy and the city would never survive, BECAUSE THE JOKER WON. No one would ever be able to rely on the goodness of people ever again, because even if another Harvey Dent came along, everyone would know that, deep down, all it would take was one bad day to turn him into a monster. If the people of Gotham start believing that, then the city would be lost; neither Batman or Gordon would be willing to bet the future of Gotham that people would see past what Harvey became, since the entire purpose of Harvey's corruption was to show that literally ANYONE could become a monster after being pushed enough. The people need to believe that Harvey Dent was uncorruptible and died fighting evil, in order to continue to believe in the goodness of humanity.]]

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[[folder:Why NOT blame [[spoiler:Harvy]]?]]
[[spoiler:Harvey]]?]]
* Going with the above headscratcher (although worthy of one of it's own), why not just tell the truth about what happened? [[spoiler:Harvy, [[spoiler:Harvey, after getting kidnapped, hearing the last moment's of his potential fiancee's life, knowing she was blown to kingdom come, and having his face horribly mutilated to an unbelievable degree just snapped and went after everybody who was involved?]] Any decent press reporter could put the spin that the white knight that [[spoiler:Harvy]] [[spoiler:Harvey]] was died in the explosion and the person who committed the murders after was a different person entirely. If his white knight persona was so important, and he was as genuinely beloved as the movie makes him out to be, then most people, I would imagine, would accept this, and the REAL [[spoiler:Harvy [[spoiler:Harvey Dent]] would live on in their hearts.
** Because then the Joker wins. He just proved that [[spoiler: [[ComicBook/TheKillingJoke anyone could become just like him with just one bad day.]] The entire movie was a fight for Gotham's soul. If Harvey Dent was outed as the one responsible, then it would prove to the citizens of Gotham that even the best of them was capable to becoming a monster and a killer. Everything Harvey had stood for would become a hypocrisy and the city would never survive, BECAUSE THE JOKER WON. No one would ever be able to rely on the goodness of people ever again, because even if another Harvey Dent came along, everyone would know that, deep down, all it would take was one bad day to turn him into a monster. If the people of Gotham start believing that, then the city would be lost; neither Batman or Gordon would be willing to bet the future of Gotham that people would see past what Harvey became, since the entire purpose of Harvey's corruption was to show that literally ANYONE could become a monster after being pushed enough. The people need to believe that Harvey Dent was uncorruptible incorruptible and died fighting evil, in order to continue to believe in the goodness of humanity.]]



*** Keep in mind there's a longrunning subtext going back to the first movie that the only reason Gordon hasn't risen through the ranks faster, despite his obvious ability and determination, is that he won't play ball with the corrupt politics of the department. And everyone knows it.

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*** Keep in mind there's a longrunning long running subtext going back to the first movie that the only reason Gordon hasn't risen through the ranks faster, despite his obvious ability and determination, is that he won't play ball with the corrupt politics of the department. And everyone knows it.



*** Coleman Reese is NOT the Riddler. There is no way the studio would allow the villain of the third movie of a HUGE franchise be played by someone who's biggest roles so far were a small role in this movie, and a bunch of one shot guest appearances on various TV shows. No disrespect to Joshua Harto, but he is no match for Liam Neeson, or Heath Ledger in terms of star power. However, there are a lot of rumours going around right now about who will play the Riddler and a lot of them come from reputable sources. My money's on Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Leonardo [=DiCaprio=], or even Robin Williams (who really wants to work with Nolan again).

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*** Coleman Reese is NOT the Riddler. There is no way the studio would allow the villain of the third movie of a HUGE franchise be played by someone who's biggest roles so far were a small role in this movie, and a bunch of one shot guest appearances on various TV shows. No disrespect to Joshua Harto, but he is no match for Liam Neeson, or Heath Ledger in terms of star power. However, there are a lot of rumours rumors going around right now about who will play the Riddler and a lot of them come from reputable sources. My money's on Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Leonardo [=DiCaprio=], or even Robin Williams (who really wants to work with Nolan again).



** His goal was to get Batman to kill him, thus proving that everyone is corruptable. And that wasn't a ''plan''. It was a ''goal''. He didn't have a plan to get to that goal. He did have explosives rigged in the warehouses, the hospital, and the ferries, just in case he needed them. He didn't know when he was going to use them, just that he would probably need them. As for the freeway chase, once again, his goal was for Batman to kill him. If he was captured, he had the bomb planted in the thug and had his goons capture Dent and Rachel, just in case. And Dent was just a contingency, in case he couldn't corrupt Batman. He didn't plan this. He just saw a golden opportunity, seeing as how Dent's girlfriend was just killed and half his face was burnt off.

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** His goal was to get Batman to kill him, thus proving that everyone is corruptable.corruptible. And that wasn't a ''plan''. It was a ''goal''. He didn't have a plan to get to that goal. He did have explosives rigged in the warehouses, the hospital, and the ferries, just in case he needed them. He didn't know when he was going to use them, just that he would probably need them. As for the freeway chase, once again, his goal was for Batman to kill him. If he was captured, he had the bomb planted in the thug and had his goons capture Dent and Rachel, just in case. And Dent was just a contingency, in case he couldn't corrupt Batman. He didn't plan this. He just saw a golden opportunity, seeing as how Dent's girlfriend was just killed and half his face was burnt off.



*** Yes, it is. Think of it as the flipside of the LawOfConservationOfDetail: What you see is what you get. The Joker killed him, and made his boys fight it out. No need to make it any more complicated than that.

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*** Yes, it is. Think of it as the flipside flip side of the LawOfConservationOfDetail: What you see is what you get. The Joker killed him, and made his boys fight it out. No need to make it any more complicated than that.



** Can't remember where I read it, but originally they really were Bullock and Montoya, apparently. But when it became clear they had to be [[spoiler: informants for the mob]], which neither of those characters are, it was decided their names would be changed (to Weurtz - who was actually [[spoiler:killed by Two-Face, IIRC]] - and Ramirez) rather than derailing them and upsetting the fans. Note that some of them got upset anyway because they thought those two really ''were'' Bullock and Montoya.

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** Can't remember where I read it, but originally they really were Bullock and Montoya, apparently. But when it became clear they had to be [[spoiler: informants for the mob]], which neither of those characters are, it was decided their names would be changed (to Weurtz Wuertz - who was actually [[spoiler:killed by Two-Face, IIRC]] - and Ramirez) rather than derailing them and upsetting the fans. Note that some of them got upset anyway because they thought those two really ''were'' Bullock and Montoya.



*** ???? A show being silly and dumb in one aspect does not nuetralize the 'bugginess' of another aspect for me.

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*** ???? A show being silly and dumb in one aspect does not nuetralize neutralize the 'bugginess' of another aspect for me.



** I found it more annoying that Two-Face is perfectly capable of forming "m", and "p" sounds when ''half his lips'' are missing and booze visibly dribbles through the bottom of his mouth. "M" I might be able to let slide, but for "P", you need an air tight chamber to create the sound. The lack of speech-impediment for Two-Face in general has bothered me, but in his other incarnations he always still had lips, albiet deformed ones, and a full inner-mouth. As far as the eyeball goes, I can see it staying in (although with difficulty), but not how it stays lubricated enough to not be a shriveled husk, much less useable and moving.

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** I found it more annoying that Two-Face is perfectly capable of forming "m", and "p" sounds when ''half his lips'' are missing and booze visibly dribbles through the bottom of his mouth. "M" I might be able to let slide, but for "P", you need an air tight chamber to create the sound. The lack of speech-impediment for Two-Face in general has bothered me, but in his other incarnations he always still had lips, albiet albeit deformed ones, and a full inner-mouth. As far as the eyeball goes, I can see it staying in (although with difficulty), but not how it stays lubricated enough to not be a shriveled husk, much less useable and moving.



*** The non-dryed-up eye is actually an [[AluminiumChristmasTrees Aluminium Christmas Tree]], Check out this fellow [[http://chasenoface.blogspot.com/ here]]: Chase No-Face, a cat who was hit by a car and disfigured, losing his nose and eyelids in the process. He's all healed now, and without the eyelids his owner merely gives him eyedrops twice a day to keep them moist. That's probably what Harvey and the doctors at the hospital were doing and he simply took the bottle with him when he left the place.

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*** The non-dryed-up eye is actually an [[AluminiumChristmasTrees Aluminium Aluminum Christmas Tree]], Check out this fellow [[http://chasenoface.blogspot.com/ here]]: Chase No-Face, a cat who was hit by a car and disfigured, losing his nose and eyelids in the process. He's all healed now, and without the eyelids his owner merely gives him eyedrops twice a day to keep them moist. That's probably what Harvey and the doctors at the hospital were doing and he simply took the bottle with him when he left the place.



* How come Batman adamantly states that he will never kill, a point which is made in both movies more than once, always seeming to imply that no matter what, he ''will'' stick to it...and then at the end of ''The Dark Knight''...he goes and kills Two Face? I mean yes, of all reasons to kill someone, it was as noble as you could get, trying to save Gordon's son, and yes, you can argue that in the heat of the moment, he may not have been thinking straight, but it still comes down to the fact that he killed a man and apparently doesn't seem to mind that much. He's more concerned about preserving Harvey's reputation than he is about the fact that ultimately, the Joker was right. He ''did'' end up brekaing his one rule.

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* How come Batman adamantly states that he will never kill, a point which is made in both movies more than once, always seeming to imply that no matter what, he ''will'' stick to it...and then at the end of ''The Dark Knight''...he goes and kills Two Face? I mean yes, of all reasons to kill someone, it was as noble as you could get, trying to save Gordon's son, and yes, you can argue that in the heat of the moment, he may not have been thinking straight, but it still comes down to the fact that he killed a man and apparently doesn't seem to mind that much. He's more concerned about preserving Harvey's reputation than he is about the fact that ultimately, the Joker was right. He ''did'' end up brekaing breaking his one rule.



*** Actually, his rule is that he does not kill anyone. Whether or not it was murder isn't what inspires Batman's rule. Were that the case, he could be as reckless as he wanted (far moreso than he is in the film) and justify any collateral death as an accident.

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*** Actually, his rule is that he does not kill anyone. Whether or not it was murder isn't what inspires Batman's rule. Were that the case, he could be as reckless as he wanted (far moreso more so than he is in the film) and justify any collateral death as an accident.



* In the real world, Joker's plans would have washed up when that mob boss put the bounty on his head. Look at the possible sernareo: Joker has a knife; you have a gun. Do you A) Bust a cap in his ass and take the 500 grand, or B) Listen to him ramble about an overly complicated plan that would [[FridgeLogic ''never work in real life''.]]

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* In the real world, Joker's plans would have washed up when that mob boss put the bounty on his head. Look at the possible sernareo: scenario: Joker has a knife; you have a gun. Do you A) Bust a cap in his ass and take the 500 grand, or B) Listen to him ramble about an overly complicated plan that would [[FridgeLogic ''never work in real life''.]]



*** Exactly. I just assumed it was meant to make you ''think'' it was calling for Batman, but then when you realise it's a mob bank -- they're calling the mob.

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*** Exactly. I just assumed it was meant to make you ''think'' it was calling for Batman, but then when you realise realize it's a mob bank -- they're calling the mob.



** TruthInTelevision- real gangsters almost ''always'' use cash; hell many don't even have ''wallets'', just clips of money they carry around. Apart from anything else, since the way they make their money is ''illegal'' (theft, drugs etc.), they ''have'' to pay in cash to keep their business transactions as secret as possible, and keep their real cash income off the books. Otherwise, they'd have to explain why their bank accounts are recieving and paying out hundreds if not thousands of dollars every week to and from known street criminals, and why they are earning so much more than their dayjob would net them.

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** TruthInTelevision- real gangsters almost ''always'' use cash; hell many don't even have ''wallets'', just clips of money they carry around. Apart from anything else, since the way they make their money is ''illegal'' (theft, drugs etc.), they ''have'' to pay in cash to keep their business transactions as secret as possible, and keep their real cash income off the books. Otherwise, they'd have to explain why their bank accounts are recieving receiving and paying out hundreds if not thousands of dollars every week to and from known street criminals, and why they are earning so much more than their dayjob day job would net them.



[[folder:Surely ordinary people would blow up a boatful of scumbags for their familys' sakes.]]

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[[folder:Surely ordinary people would blow up a boatful of scumbags for their familys' families' sakes.]]



** Because no one wanted to get their hands dirty. No one wanted to have hundreds of deaths on their consience - especially when they didn't know if their opposite numbers were going to kill them. No one wanted to be a murderer. Didn't the movie make that quite explicitly clear?

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** Because no one wanted to get their hands dirty. No one wanted to have hundreds of deaths on their consience conscience - especially when they didn't know if their opposite numbers were going to kill them. No one wanted to be a murderer. Didn't the movie make that quite explicitly clear?



* I'm always kind of bewildered by that scene with the flunky who has an explosive sewn inside him. I'm sorry but it just seemed a little ridiculous to me that the guy was still walking around for, what, maybe an hour? I'm no doctor but it seems like it would take one heck of a surgeon to keep the guy alive that long after being cut open like that (did you see the size of the scars and the protusion?). At first I didn't think about it because I just assumed the Joker had a surgeon do it for him, but the way the guy talks about it I'm pretty sure the Joker did it himself. I know he cuts people up, but there's a big difference between cutting people up for torture or killing and actually operating on them. It bugs me more every time I watch the movie.

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* I'm always kind of bewildered by that scene with the flunky who has an explosive sewn inside him. I'm sorry but it just seemed a little ridiculous to me that the guy was still walking around for, what, maybe an hour? I'm no doctor but it seems like it would take one heck of a surgeon to keep the guy alive that long after being cut open like that (did you see the size of the scars and the protusion?).protrusion?). At first I didn't think about it because I just assumed the Joker had a surgeon do it for him, but the way the guy talks about it I'm pretty sure the Joker did it himself. I know he cuts people up, but there's a big difference between cutting people up for torture or killing and actually operating on them. It bugs me more every time I watch the movie.



* Not sure if this has been brought up yet (or if this should be at the top of the page), but how, exactly, does the Joker manage to get so many loyal henchmen? Sure, some of them, like the one Dent tried to interrogate, are schizophrenic nuts, but really, it's pretty hard to find that many people out there who are simultaneously nutty enough to follow a loon like the Joker and not realise that it's probably a one-way ticket to getting knifed up the minute you [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness outlive your usefulness]], yet rational enough to carry out his often madly complex plots. Furthermore, some of his henchmen - like those kids who help him kill Gambol near the beginning - look pretty sane to me. What could the Joker possibly offer them? How could they miss the fact that he's clearly AxeCrazy? And later on, he manages to convince the Chechen's entire gang to turn against Chechen and start working for him at the drop of a hat. Once again, ''how''?

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* Not sure if this has been brought up yet (or if this should be at the top of the page), but how, exactly, does the Joker manage to get so many loyal henchmen? Sure, some of them, like the one Dent tried to interrogate, are schizophrenic nuts, but really, it's pretty hard to find that many people out there who are simultaneously nutty enough to follow a loon like the Joker and not realise realize that it's probably a one-way ticket to getting knifed up the minute you [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness outlive your usefulness]], yet rational enough to carry out his often madly complex plots. Furthermore, some of his henchmen - like those kids who help him kill Gambol near the beginning - look pretty sane to me. What could the Joker possibly offer them? How could they miss the fact that he's clearly AxeCrazy? And later on, he manages to convince the Chechen's entire gang to turn against Chechen and start working for him at the drop of a hat. Once again, ''how''?



** Money and fear, a potent combination. There's a new player in town, and he pays well. So you go work for him -- and it's only once you've joined his crew that you realise he's crazier than a smashed windshield and about as healthy to be around as Mary Mallon.\\

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** Money and fear, a potent combination. There's a new player in town, and he pays well. So you go work for him -- and it's only once you've joined his crew that you realise realize he's crazier than a smashed windshield and about as healthy to be around as Mary Mallon.\\



** Also keep in mind that there are still a lot of uncaptured escapees from Arkham, as mentioned near the beginning of the film (or possibly the end of Batman Begins, in any case.) Batman mentions that the [[spoiler: police officer wearing the Rachel Dawes nametag is a paranoid schitzophrenic,]] and some of the captured lackeys, [[spoiler: including the lackey with the bomb in his stomach]] are also clearly insane.

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** Also keep in mind that there are still a lot of uncaptured escapees from Arkham, as mentioned near the beginning of the film (or possibly the end of Batman Begins, in any case.) Batman mentions that the [[spoiler: police officer wearing the Rachel Dawes nametag is a paranoid schitzophrenic,]] schizophrenic,]] and some of the captured lackeys, [[spoiler: including the lackey with the bomb in his stomach]] are also clearly insane.



*** No, it's not, dammit, because the Joker doesn't turn up until about a third of the way through the scene. This, from memory, is the sequence: Maroni enters, getting searched by a door guard with a handheld metal detector (or something). The mobsters begin their meeting, with Lau speaking to them on the television. They react to Lau's plan with varying levels of scepticism/annoyance. They then begin discussing the issue of Batman and how they're going to protect their cash, whereupon the Joker smacks the aforementioned door guard (''that'' is when you hear the guy yell and fall), steps over his body, then walks into the meeting, fake-laughing. He prevents them shooting him in that instant with sheer audacity and later his coat o' grenades; he wasn't inspected or searched. The mobsters refuse his deal, so he shrugs and vanishes, and the scene ends. Basically, the Joker entered and escaped, unharmed, through the front door, with sheer charisma and audacity combined with careful planning and preparation - and, interestingly, didn't achieve his stated goal right then. He's later proven capable of improvising, but it does add to the "One man, some clown, he's nothing, he's nobody," assumption that dogs him during the movie's first act.

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*** No, it's not, dammit, because the Joker doesn't turn up until about a third of the way through the scene. This, from memory, is the sequence: Maroni enters, getting searched by a door guard with a handheld metal detector (or something). The mobsters begin their meeting, with Lau speaking to them on the television. They react to Lau's plan with varying levels of scepticism/annoyance.skepticism/annoyance. They then begin discussing the issue of Batman and how they're going to protect their cash, whereupon the Joker smacks the aforementioned door guard (''that'' is when you hear the guy yell and fall), steps over his body, then walks into the meeting, fake-laughing. He prevents them shooting him in that instant with sheer audacity and later his coat o' grenades; he wasn't inspected or searched. The mobsters refuse his deal, so he shrugs and vanishes, and the scene ends. Basically, the Joker entered and escaped, unharmed, through the front door, with sheer charisma and audacity combined with careful planning and preparation - and, interestingly, didn't achieve his stated goal right then. He's later proven capable of improvising, but it does add to the "One man, some clown, he's nothing, he's nobody," assumption that dogs him during the movie's first act.



** Did you completely miss the scene where Joker manages to kill every single person under police protection, often right infront of them? It wouldn't do much, no matter how much security.

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** Did you completely miss the scene where Joker manages to kill every single person under police protection, often right infront in front of them? It wouldn't do much, no matter how much security.



*** this is some bullsh*t thing that tends to happen in a lot of films really, a character gets a boy and a girl and the girl is usually cast into the background, not considered to be as important unless the villian is a serial rapist or something [[roll]] fxcking sexist if you ask me. and just plain pointless too, they should have just given Gordan one son only, then it would have made more sense

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*** this is some bullsh*t thing that tends to happen in a lot of films really, a character gets a boy and a girl and the girl is usually cast into the background, not considered to be as important unless the villian villain is a serial rapist or something [[roll]] fxcking sexist if you ask me. and just plain pointless too, they should have just given Gordan Gordon one son only, then it would have made more sense



** No, it's pretty much confirmed that the people on the ferries had cell phones -- because Lucius Fox, while using the supersonar device, tracks the Joker's voice from audio sources on the ferries (i.e. the civvies' mobile phones) but determines that's not the source of the Joker's signal. On the other hand, even if the people on the ferries could call out, what would it help? The Joker's threatened destruction if anyone tries to get off the boats.

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** No, it's pretty much confirmed that the people on the ferries had cell phones -- because Lucius Fox, while using the supersonar super sonar device, tracks the Joker's voice from audio sources on the ferries (i.e. the civvies' mobile phones) but determines that's not the source of the Joker's signal. On the other hand, even if the people on the ferries could call out, what would it help? The Joker's threatened destruction if anyone tries to get off the boats.



* If this one has been discussed further up, apologies, but I had a moment of FridgeLogic: Batman lets himself be framed for Dent's murders so Dent's reputation is preserved. The prime reason for this seems to be so the cases against the five hundred-odd Mob members won't be thrown out (in an earlier scene, Batman calls Dent's ''stand'' against organised crime as the first legitimate ray of light in Gotham in decades. Dent himself asks the Mayor to consider what can be done with 18 months or so of clean streets.) But if that's right, then Batman's gesture was either unneeded or futile: the case against the Mob depended entirely on Lao's testimony as their banker, and Lao (it is implied, if not on screen) was killed by the Joker in the fire that burned up the Mob's money. At that point Dent's reputation doesn't make a spot of difference to the RICO case at all.
** Dent's reputation would have affected more than just that case. With Bats taking the blame for the deaths, Dent goes down as a martyr, a hero to the people, and someone to inspire the next DA to live up to. If Dent is implicated in the deaths then, oh well, he was just another whacko, currupt politician. The morale of pretty much everyone in the city goes down from that, and you might find yourself in a worse position than the city was in during ''Begins''.
*** Also on my third viewing of the film earlier this year (I keep meaning to watch it again but I keep slipping) Dent takes Lao to court to testify. You only see the scene before they leave where Dent throws him a bullet-proof vest and mentions they are going to court, but that's enough to show that Lao got his testimony out of the way before his untimely death. Plus the goal was not to convict all 500 hundred of them. Only the top mafia guys could afford to make bail; all the lower and mid-range guys would not be able to afford to make bail, and it was expected that most would plead out when it became apparant their bosses wouldn't come to their rescue (since they aren't making any money because most of their guys on the streets are in prison). With the Joker's spree of terror going on those 490 guys would have some hope of getting let out, but once his efforts to corrupt Batman and Dent failed they had Lao's testimony on record and the prosecuting attorny has just become Gotham's marytr. With no way to discredit Dent's prosecution and Lao's rather damning testimony combined with the Joker's spree still on the minds of many gothamites the RICO case is pretty much decided against the mob.

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* If this one has been discussed further up, apologies, but I had a moment of FridgeLogic: Batman lets himself be framed for Dent's murders so Dent's reputation is preserved. The prime reason for this seems to be so the cases against the five hundred-odd Mob members won't be thrown out (in an earlier scene, Batman calls Dent's ''stand'' against organised organized crime as the first legitimate ray of light in Gotham in decades. Dent himself asks the Mayor to consider what can be done with 18 months or so of clean streets.) But if that's right, then Batman's gesture was either unneeded or futile: the case against the Mob depended entirely on Lao's testimony as their banker, and Lao (it is implied, if not on screen) was killed by the Joker in the fire that burned up the Mob's money. At that point Dent's reputation doesn't make a spot of difference to the RICO case at all.
** Dent's reputation would have affected more than just that case. With Bats taking the blame for the deaths, Dent goes down as a martyr, a hero to the people, and someone to inspire the next DA to live up to. If Dent is implicated in the deaths then, oh well, he was just another whacko, currupt corrupt politician. The morale of pretty much everyone in the city goes down from that, and you might find yourself in a worse position than the city was in during ''Begins''.
*** Also on my third viewing of the film earlier this year (I keep meaning to watch it again but I keep slipping) Dent takes Lao to court to testify. You only see the scene before they leave where Dent throws him a bullet-proof vest and mentions they are going to court, but that's enough to show that Lao got his testimony out of the way before his untimely death. Plus the goal was not to convict all 500 hundred of them. Only the top mafia guys could afford to make bail; all the lower and mid-range guys would not be able to afford to make bail, and it was expected that most would plead out when it became apparant apparent their bosses wouldn't come to their rescue (since they aren't making any money because most of their guys on the streets are in prison). With the Joker's spree of terror going on those 490 guys would have some hope of getting let out, but once his efforts to corrupt Batman and Dent failed they had Lao's testimony on record and the prosecuting attorny attorney has just become Gotham's marytr.martyr. With no way to discredit Dent's prosecution and Lao's rather damning testimony combined with the Joker's spree still on the minds of many gothamites the RICO case is pretty much decided against the mob.



*** I assumed that, based on the Joker's preceding line about how whatever doesn't kill you makes you stranger, that the gas was harmless and nonlethal and was meant to illustrate his point. Also, as the above troper notes, the newsreport would likely have mentioned nerve gas or fear toxin or the like being released in the bank.

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*** I assumed that, based on the Joker's preceding line about how whatever doesn't kill you makes you stranger, that the gas was harmless and nonlethal and was meant to illustrate his point. Also, as the above troper notes, the newsreport news report would likely have mentioned nerve gas or fear toxin or the like being released in the bank.



* In the scene where they track down the Joker by sonar- how do they somehow manage to use sonar imaging to detect his ''makeup'' as well as his general bodily location? It doesn't even seem to pick up distinct facial features for anyone else, but really. It might just be to make him more eminently recognisable, but a big blinking arrow over his head reading "THIS IS THE GUY" or something would have been just as easy to program in. Maybe Bruce Wayne's just a tad slow...
** Two thoughts come to mind: Bruce programmed in the bodytype, scars, makeup, and such into the search program to go with the voice match, or the makeup makes subtle changes in sound as it bounces off the Joker's face. Either way, no big for CrazyPrepared Batman.
*** It can barely detect facial features on everybody else but it can detect the subtle colour changes in nasty, grimy greasepaint? The first one's a bit more plausible, but still... I'd go with the big blinking neon sign.

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* In the scene where they track down the Joker by sonar- how do they somehow manage to use sonar imaging to detect his ''makeup'' as well as his general bodily location? It doesn't even seem to pick up distinct facial features for anyone else, but really. It might just be to make him more eminently recognisable, recognizable, but a big blinking arrow over his head reading "THIS IS THE GUY" or something would have been just as easy to program in. Maybe Bruce Wayne's just a tad slow...
** Two thoughts come to mind: Bruce programmed in the bodytype, body type, scars, makeup, and such into the search program to go with the voice match, or the makeup makes subtle changes in sound as it bounces off the Joker's face. Either way, no big for CrazyPrepared Batman.
*** It can barely detect facial features on everybody else but it can detect the subtle colour color changes in nasty, grimy greasepaint? The first one's a bit more plausible, but still... I'd go with the big blinking neon sign.



** The difference is that, despite his rather extreme methods, Ghul wasn't a psychopath. The whole aim of the Joker's psychological assault on Batman is that they are exactly the same, which forced Bruce to realise that he had to take a higher stand and become a true hero. I prefer to see it as Batman's continuing evolution as a hero.

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** The difference is that, despite his rather extreme methods, Ghul wasn't a psychopath. The whole aim of the Joker's psychological assault on Batman is that they are exactly the same, which forced Bruce to realise realize that he had to take a higher stand and become a true hero. I prefer to see it as Batman's continuing evolution as a hero.



*** Actually, Bats is shown clipping them to his belt and using them in the previous movie (specifically to knock the lights out during his first tussle with Falconi's goons), so it's likely that he had them on hand during this film. That said, shurikens and the like (especially of the size shown of the Batarangs) are more for distraction than incapacitation, and hitting Two Face's hand would've been a difficult task even if he hadn't just been shot, what with the risk of hitting Gordon's kid in the face instead.

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*** Actually, Bats is shown clipping them to his belt and using them in the previous movie (specifically to knock the lights out during his first tussle with Falconi's Falcone's goons), so it's likely that he had them on hand during this film. That said, shurikens and the like (especially of the size shown of the Batarangs) are more for distraction than incapacitation, and hitting Two Face's hand would've been a difficult task even if he hadn't just been shot, what with the risk of hitting Gordon's kid in the face instead.



** When the Joker was taunting Batman, he was clearly implying there was something *romantic* going on between them, which would imply that she knew his secret identity. Had the third movie gone the way it was suppossed to go (with Joker going on trial,Dent being the main villain, etc.), part of the plot would presumably have centered on the cops using that information to find Batman's secret identity.

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** When the Joker was taunting Batman, he was clearly implying there was something *romantic* going on between them, which would imply that she knew his secret identity. Had the third movie gone the way it was suppossed supposed to go (with Joker going on trial,Dent being the main villain, etc.), part of the plot would presumably have centered on the cops using that information to find Batman's secret identity.



* I never managed to figure out the fingerprint thing, he got that brick but shot another one, analysed the brick ''he shot'' and with the fingerprint he get... An address? Someone, please, explain it to me.

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* I never managed to figure out the fingerprint thing, he got that brick but shot another one, analysed analyzed the brick ''he shot'' and with the fingerprint he get... An address? Someone, please, explain it to me.



*** Moreover, this is a Gotham City. Any neighbouring cities or federal agencies would just be like "Violence in Gotham, what else is new" and only make a token effort to do anything. It's not said in the movie, but perhaps most politicians at the federal level actually want to see Gotham burn to the ground.

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*** Moreover, this is a Gotham City. Any neighbouring neighboring cities or federal agencies would just be like "Violence in Gotham, what else is new" and only make a token effort to do anything. It's not said in the movie, but perhaps most politicians at the federal level actually want to see Gotham burn to the ground.



*** To the OP, Gordon and Batman didn't abandon their "code" at all. Batman has always been about doing the right thing, but understanding that he is just a tool to make Gotham a better place and will eventually go away when Gotham no longer needs him. Gordon himself also follows the spirit of the law more than the letter; he works with Batman, who is legally a vigilante and "the law" dictates that he should be arrested for that, he works wth a police department filled with people suspected of being corrupt because in Gotham he is the only honest cop there is, and the common thread between both actions is that he is doing things for the good of the people of Gotham. Covering up Dent's crimes follows that; seriously there is no good that comes out of revealing it; every single criminal Dent locked up in his entire career will be set free, the people of Gotham will loose hope and fall back into the same state after the Wayne's were murdered that made Gotham what it is today, anyone who wants to believe that people are good will look at what happened to Harvey Dent and see that even the White Knight of the city could fall so far, what hope is there for anyone else? Not to mention that the police force would be demoralised and the Mob will get a second wind and undo every single victory Gordon and Dent had worked so hard for. It's not about blind adherence to rules, it's about doing what's '''right.'''

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*** To the OP, Gordon and Batman didn't abandon their "code" at all. Batman has always been about doing the right thing, but understanding that he is just a tool to make Gotham a better place and will eventually go away when Gotham no longer needs him. Gordon himself also follows the spirit of the law more than the letter; he works with Batman, who is legally a vigilante and "the law" dictates that he should be arrested for that, he works wth a police department filled with people suspected of being corrupt because in Gotham he is the only honest cop there is, and the common thread between both actions is that he is doing things for the good of the people of Gotham. Covering up Dent's crimes follows that; seriously there is no good that comes out of revealing it; every single criminal Dent locked up in his entire career will be set free, the people of Gotham will loose hope and fall back into the same state after the Wayne's were murdered that made Gotham what it is today, anyone who wants to believe that people are good will look at what happened to Harvey Dent and see that even the White Knight of the city could fall so far, what hope is there for anyone else? Not to mention that the police force would be demoralised demoralized and the Mob will get a second wind and undo every single victory Gordon and Dent had worked so hard for. It's not about blind adherence to rules, it's about doing what's '''right.'''



** The clown is the one who asked the Joker if he was out; the Joker just nodded. To put it another way, the clown was an average thug too, and the average thug is hot-headed, self-centred and not all that bright.

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** The clown is the one who asked the Joker if he was out; the Joker just nodded. To put it another way, the clown was an average thug too, and the average thug is hot-headed, self-centred self-centered and not all that bright.



*** Alternatively that guy just screwed up big time and was given a choice between concrete shoes and a swim in the harbour or killing Harvey Dent.

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*** Alternatively that guy just screwed up big time and was given a choice between concrete shoes and a swim in the harbour harbor or killing Harvey Dent.



*** Even if the media knew about it, Batman is doing nothing more than extraditing a criminal back to Gotham for prosecution. No different than if Scarecrow had fled to a neighbouring city/state and Batman had brought him back.

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*** Even if the media knew about it, Batman is doing nothing more than extraditing a criminal back to Gotham for prosecution. No different than if Scarecrow had fled to a neighbouring neighboring city/state and Batman had brought him back.



*** This is arguably Nolan's favourite aesop (concealing the truth in order to maintain purpose) as he uses it in almost all of his films (save Batman Begins and Insomnia). It's interesting to note that, from what it looks like, The Dark Knight Rises will serve to deconstruct this aesop by revealing Harvey's crimes.

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*** This is arguably Nolan's favourite aesop favorite Aesop (concealing the truth in order to maintain purpose) as he uses it in almost all of his films (save Batman Begins and Insomnia). It's interesting to note that, from what it looks like, The Dark Knight Rises will serve to deconstruct this aesop Aesop by revealing Harvey's crimes.



*** Because Harvey was the best of them. He was the one that was really doing the best for Gotham before it all happened. Gordon was with corrupt cops, Batman is a vigilante in a cape. Harvey is a DA who is cleaning the streets and doing it legally to make Gotham a better place. He's doing it by the book. When he had the gun and was threatening to kill the mobster, he was flipping his coin, which has heads on both sides. The guy didnt know that. Harvey was never going to kill ANYONE until he became Two Face. He "makes his luck" remember? He flips the coin, saying "I'll kill you if it lands on tails" and it will never land on tails. Its not this idea of a white knight, Harvey was the White Knight. He did everything by the book, for the good of Gotham, and was praised for it. Any time it looked like he was doing bad, it was revealed he wasn't. He was the best of them in the end, and he fell the hardest because of it.

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*** Because Harvey was the best of them. He was the one that was really doing the best for Gotham before it all happened. Gordon was with corrupt cops, Batman is a vigilante in a cape. Harvey is a DA who is cleaning the streets and doing it legally to make Gotham a better place. He's doing it by the book. When he had the gun and was threatening to kill the mobster, he was flipping his coin, which has heads on both sides. The guy didnt didn't know that. Harvey was never going to kill ANYONE until he became Two Face. He "makes his luck" remember? He flips the coin, saying "I'll kill you if it lands on tails" and it will never land on tails. Its not this idea of a white knight, Harvey was the White Knight. He did everything by the book, for the good of Gotham, and was praised for it. Any time it looked like he was doing bad, it was revealed he wasn't. He was the best of them in the end, and he fell the hardest because of it.



* Several questions: 1. Was the Joker relying on the third guy figuring out that Joker was going to kill him and then starting a stand-off, and then circling until he was in front of the bus at the exact second he was going to back in, or did he just want to see what happened? 2. Why did no one in the fire department report the stolen firetruck, or any civilian report that there was a burning truck in the middle of a road? Furthermore, why did the trucks go down onto lower 5th where they were explicitly described as sitting ducks and not around the block? 3. How does the bomb in the police office knock every police officer out, but leaves the Joker and Lau completely unscathed, to the point where the Joker can, completely unmolested, pick up Lau and leave with him? 4. Why did the newspaper print Mayor Garcia's obituary (or at least report that it was sent in) and then police department had him march anyway? 5. How on Earth did the Joker sneak in a replacement honour guard, none of whom look anything like the real honour guard, and one of whom has a nametag reading "Officer Rachel Dawes" and another of whom is THE JOKER HIMSELF (albeit without the facepaint, but with the scars)? 6. And [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking how did the Joker get through the call screener on Mike Engle's show?]]

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* Several questions: 1. Was the Joker relying on the third guy figuring out that Joker was going to kill him and then starting a stand-off, and then circling until he was in front of the bus at the exact second he was going to back in, or did he just want to see what happened? 2. Why did no one in the fire department report the stolen firetruck, or any civilian report that there was a burning truck in the middle of a road? Furthermore, why did the trucks go down onto lower 5th where they were explicitly described as sitting ducks and not around the block? 3. How does the bomb in the police office knock every police officer out, but leaves the Joker and Lau completely unscathed, to the point where the Joker can, completely unmolested, pick up Lau and leave with him? 4. Why did the newspaper print Mayor Garcia's obituary (or at least report that it was sent in) and then police department had him march anyway? 5. How on Earth did the Joker sneak in a replacement honour honor guard, none of whom look anything like the real honour honor guard, and one of whom has a nametag reading "Officer Rachel Dawes" and another of whom is THE JOKER HIMSELF (albeit without the facepaint, but with the scars)? 6. And [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking how did the Joker get through the call screener on Mike Engle's show?]]



** I assumed it stopped because Crane freaked out after the roof cave in and hit the brakes in a panic. As to the roof thing, presumbably it only caved in a certain amount.

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** I assumed it stopped because Crane freaked out after the roof cave in and hit the brakes in a panic. As to the roof thing, presumbably presumably it only caved in a certain amount.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX9oV6RgL6g This whole headscratcher came from watching this video, which spoofs the scene from the movie. While it might go into overly long gag territory it does make a quite a few points. Namely, "You said some men want to watch the world burn, so you burned down a forest? You did him a favor." Alfred basically committed eco-terrorism, destroying an untold number of animal lives in the service of catching a single bandit. They were trying to win the loyalty of local warlords with the stones, and there's always the chance the jewels were in the forest they burned. Nevermind that these warlords might not appreciate these outsiders causing a gigantic fire in their territory, even if they retrieved the jewels. "Yeah, sorry about burning part of your ecosystem to the ground, but here's a big jewel. That makes everything better, right?" The whole thought of it makes Alfred look like a right bastard. And while the movie splits the scenes up the video puts Alfred relaying the story and then answering Bruce's question of how they caught him together. When you look at it like that Alfred's solution comes off as burn down the city to smoke out the Joker. Not very inspirational.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX9oV6RgL6g This whole headscratcher came from watching this video, which spoofs the scene from the movie. While it might go into overly long gag territory it does make a quite a few points. Namely, "You said some men want to watch the world burn, so you burned down a forest? You did him a favor." Alfred basically committed eco-terrorism, destroying an untold number of animal lives in the service of catching a single bandit. They were trying to win the loyalty of local warlords with the stones, and there's always the chance the jewels were in the forest they burned. Nevermind Never mind that these warlords might not appreciate these outsiders causing a gigantic fire in their territory, even if they retrieved the jewels. "Yeah, sorry about burning part of your ecosystem to the ground, but here's a big jewel. That makes everything better, right?" The whole thought of it makes Alfred look like a right bastard. And while the movie splits the scenes up the video puts Alfred relaying the story and then answering Bruce's question of how they caught him together. When you look at it like that Alfred's solution comes off as burn down the city to smoke out the Joker. Not very inspirational.
22nd Oct '17 3:56:52 PM SuperMagneto
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Added DiffLines:


[[folder: Why did he call himself The Joker?]]
* In the comics, it makes sense. Here, he is a terrorist in clown makeup. Is it like Watchmen where Comedian gives himself the name because he thinks life is a big joke to him?
[[/folder]]
----
6th Oct '17 4:05:39 AM LondonKdS
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** Again, the "special features" on the second disc cover this. The driver's-side wheel pops out first, followed by the passenger's-side wheel, which fixes itself onto the back of the 'Pod. (However, it all happens so fast that it's nearly unnoticeable without freeze-framing.) The guns are presumably concealed under all that cowling...remember, the Tumbler was made for military purposes. A) it has to have an 'eject' function in case of IEDs, and B) that eject function has to be at least somewhat lightly armed.

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** Again, the "special features" on the second disc cover this. The driver's-side wheel pops out first, followed by the passenger's-side wheel, which fixes itself onto the back of the 'Pod. (However, it all happens so fast that it's nearly unnoticeable without freeze-framing.) The guns are presumably concealed under all that cowling...remember, the Tumbler was made for military purposes. A) it has to have an 'eject' function in case of IEDs, [=IEDs=], and B) that eject function has to be at least somewhat lightly armed.
12th Sep '17 1:08:18 PM brokensilence
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* I always figured that Alfred never intended to tell that second part of the story, as it doesn't seem to him to pertain to Bruce's situation, and it possibly gives bad advice. He doesn't say that part to Bruce until he straight up asks him.
12th Sep '17 1:03:47 PM brokensilence
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How in the hell was Batman allowed to be so brutal to the Joker during the interrogation? Even before the GCPD tried to intervene, he already smashed Joker's face into a desk, punched his hand, and threw him into a wall, and the GCPD just sat by. I'm pretty sure that bringing in an external vigilante to torture a suspect would put the GCPD in quite a bit of legal trouble.

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* How in the hell was Batman allowed to be so brutal to the Joker during the interrogation? Even before the GCPD tried to intervene, he already smashed Joker's face into a desk, punched his hand, and threw him into a wall, and the GCPD just sat by. I'm pretty sure that bringing in an external vigilante to torture a suspect would put the GCPD in quite a bit of legal trouble.
3rd Sep '17 8:10:29 PM brokensilence
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[[folder: Torturing the Joker?]]
How in the hell was Batman allowed to be so brutal to the Joker during the interrogation? Even before the GCPD tried to intervene, he already smashed Joker's face into a desk, punched his hand, and threw him into a wall, and the GCPD just sat by. I'm pretty sure that bringing in an external vigilante to torture a suspect would put the GCPD in quite a bit of legal trouble.
[[/folder]]
23rd Aug '17 6:30:24 AM narutobarrage17
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This is extremely minor, but why is Harvey's unflattering nick-name at the end of his name? Harvey stupid. Harvey smelly. Harvey Two-Face. Looking at it shouldn't it come BEFORE his name? (and have a 'd') "There goes Two-Faced Harvey."

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This is extremely minor, but why is Harvey's unflattering nick-name at the end of his name? Harvey stupid. Harvey smelly. Harvey Two-Face. Looking at it shouldn't it come BEFORE his name? (and have a 'd') "There goes Two-Faced Harvey." "
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