History Headscratchers / TheCabinInTheWoods

5th Mar '17 7:00:04 PM MissRatbat
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** Or for an Occam's cut, Curt does have a cousin and Marty just doesn't know about or remember them.
3rd Mar '17 7:38:57 AM ErikModi
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** It's a send-up of Japanese horror cliches in general, thus we have the stringy-haired ghost girl from The Ring, The Grudge, etc. The terrorizing of schoolgirls and the magical transformation into a happy frog is lampshading that, unless you happen to be familiar with Japanese culture, folklore, and mythology, a lot of J-Horror ''just doesn't make sense'' to Western audiences.
3rd Mar '17 7:22:08 AM ErikModi
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** Simple: Dana and Marty are DoomedMoralVictors.

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** Simple: Dana and Marty are DoomedMoralVictors.
DoomedMoralVictor{s}.
3rd Mar '17 7:20:54 AM ErikModi
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*** But the Controllers are not "doing the same thing and expecting different results." The entirety of the operation is based on doing the same thing and expecting ''the same results'', because the results in question ''prevent the destruction of the world.'' "Seeing what comes next" is going to result in one of two things: Utter destruction of everything or a world where some other lifeform emerges and becomes dominant, a lifeform that will return to the performance of ritual murder because they'll still have to deal with the Ancient Ones, who given what little we know of them will likely continue to exist for as long as the world exists. In the case of destruction, "what comes next" is nonexistence; in the case of a new dominant lifeform, the cycle simply continues, only there's 7 billion people gone because two traumatized teenagers decided that if they and their friends had to die everyone else might as well die with them. Additionally, if the Organization's "moral flaw" is that they expect the sacrifices to die without giving them the chance to make that choice, what makes Dana and Marty any better? Not only do they condemn a planet's worth of people to, at best, a quick death (at worst an extended torture, given the Ancient Ones' apparent power and tastes in entertainment) but they give the rest of the world even less choice than they themselves were given: They had the choice to turn back after encountering Mordecai, despite not knowing the stakes at the time. The rest of the world doesn't even get that much from our two brave heroes, and this mass death isn't even a sacrifice because that would mean an expectation that something good would result; when the ritual sacrifices die, it's to preserve the world. When Marty and Dana let the world end it's because they've given up, not enough to simply die but apparently enough to take everyone with them. Ultimately, Marty and Dana ''didn't'' accept their fate, even or especially after the Director explained why it was necessary. The argument that they were somehow representative of "the real human community" or that they "understood mature decision-making" or "had superior moral courage" is hollow because we see none of that demonstrated at the end. When confronted with the reason, when they knew that these deaths were required to prevent the End of the World, they didn't take a second to think about all the people they were condemning to likely worse torment and death than what happened to their friends. Dana and Marty ''are'' murdering and torturing others by proxy, just like the Controllers, but on a vastly larger scale, without the intention of creating something better. Their actions are less a temper tantrum and more the sulking of children: If I can't go to recess (that is, live happily ignorant), then the rest of the class can't either. In fact, Marty and Dana's actions are far closer to those of the Ancient Ones: By the end of the movie, they're content to destroy everything without thought for anyone else because things don't or can't go the way they want it to. Dana and Marty's decision may be understandable, given everything they've been through, but it's nothing but reflexive action at best, utter selfishness at worst.

From my own perspective, we're only told how bad the Ancient Ones are by people who are afraid of them and have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, and who are shown to be fairly impotent in a number of ways (Hadley's having fertility issues, and is generally hostile to the changes a child will bring; the youth having sex vs. the older ones just watching/talking about it, and hostile to real sex; plenty of other examples; on a meta-level Sigourney Weaver's casting alludes to "Alien" and the rape/victimization terror sexuality there, plus the Evil Dead rape trees, all that) vs. the maybe a bit unhealthy (Dana sleeping with her professor) but potent and fertile sexuality of the protagonists. Even sexual potency aside, the information, the basic courage and effectiveness of The Organization in fighting the monsters is definitely not unquestionable. How inviolate can the "rules" be, how "unstoppable" are the monsters and Ancient Ones and how "inevitable" can the end of the world be if a classroom full of 9 year old girls can derail their plans? They didn't even have automatic weapons. They turned a ghost into a happy frog with just teamwork and joy and all they got for it was invective(s) from Gary.

to:

*** But the Controllers are not "doing the same thing and expecting different results." The entirety of the operation is based on doing the same thing and expecting ''the same results'', because the results in question ''prevent the destruction of the world.'' "Seeing what comes next" is going to result in one of two things: Utter destruction of everything or a world where some other lifeform emerges and becomes dominant, a lifeform that will return to the performance of ritual murder because they'll still have to deal with the Ancient Ones, who given what little we know of them will likely continue to exist for as long as the world exists. In the case of destruction, "what comes next" is nonexistence; in the case of a new dominant lifeform, the cycle simply continues, only there's 7 billion people gone because two traumatized teenagers decided that if they and their friends had to die everyone else might as well die with them. Additionally, if the Organization's "moral flaw" is that they expect the sacrifices to die without giving them the chance to make that choice, what makes Dana and Marty any better? Not only do they condemn a planet's worth of people to, at best, a quick death (at worst an extended torture, given the Ancient Ones' apparent power and tastes in entertainment) but they give the rest of the world even less choice than they themselves were given: They had the choice to turn back after encountering Mordecai, despite not knowing the stakes at the time. The rest of the world doesn't even get that much from our two brave heroes, and this mass death isn't even a sacrifice because that would mean an expectation that something good would result; when the ritual sacrifices die, it's to preserve the world. When Marty and Dana let the world end it's because they've given up, not enough to simply die but apparently enough to take everyone with them. Ultimately, Marty and Dana ''didn't'' accept their fate, even or especially after the Director explained why it was necessary. The argument that they were somehow representative of "the real human community" or that they "understood mature decision-making" or "had superior moral courage" is hollow because we see none of that demonstrated at the end. When confronted with the reason, when they knew that these deaths were required to prevent the End of the World, they didn't take a second to think about all the people they were condemning to likely worse torment and death than what happened to their friends. Dana and Marty ''are'' murdering and torturing others by proxy, just like the Controllers, but on a vastly larger scale, without the intention of creating something better. Their actions are less a temper tantrum and more the sulking of children: If I can't go to recess (that is, live happily ignorant), then the rest of the class can't either. In fact, Marty and Dana's actions are far closer to those of the Ancient Ones: By the end of the movie, they're content to destroy everything without thought for anyone else because things don't or can't go the way they want it to. Dana and Marty's decision may be understandable, given everything they've been through, but it's nothing but reflexive action at best, utter selfishness at worst.

worst. From my own perspective, we're only told how bad the Ancient Ones are by people who are afraid of them and have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, and who are shown to be fairly impotent in a number of ways (Hadley's having fertility issues, and is generally hostile to the changes a child will bring; the youth having sex vs. the older ones just watching/talking about it, and hostile to real sex; plenty of other examples; on a meta-level Sigourney Weaver's casting alludes to "Alien" and the rape/victimization terror sexuality there, plus the Evil Dead rape trees, all that) vs. the maybe a bit unhealthy (Dana sleeping with her professor) but potent and fertile sexuality of the protagonists. Even sexual potency aside, the information, the basic courage and effectiveness of The Organization in fighting the monsters is definitely not unquestionable. How inviolate can the "rules" be, how "unstoppable" are the monsters and Ancient Ones and how "inevitable" can the end of the world be if a classroom full of 9 year old girls can derail their plans? They didn't even have automatic weapons. They turned a ghost into a happy frog with just teamwork and joy and all they got for it was invective(s) from Gary.
** Simple: Dana and Marty are DoomedMoralVictors.
3rd Mar '17 7:04:53 AM ErikModi
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*** Because actual high school-age kids can't (usually) [[{{Fanservice}} legally take their clothes off in front of a camera.]]
3rd Mar '17 6:19:44 AM ErikModi
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** Direct your attention to pretty much any Grimm's Fairy Tale and the folklore tales they're based on. If the protagonist isn't an actual child, they're certain to be a very young adult.
3rd Mar '17 6:14:00 AM ErikModi
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*** Again from an in-universe perspective, even if the sacrifice is already boned by going so far OffTheRails, the Facility is still going to try and complete on the off chance they can stop the world from ending.
3rd Mar '17 6:11:34 AM ErikModi
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** One could actually see the Controllers doing this. "Why isn't the vampire artifact staged yet?" "Vampires are on the way out. We're done with vampires. The vampire artifact stays in storage." "Wait, why are we putting the zombie artifact in? We haven't used that in thirty years!" "Zombies are back, zombies are in again. We're doing zombies this year."
3rd Mar '17 6:08:57 AM ErikModi
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** Lycanthropy being transmissible by bite was pretty much an invention of the old Universal movies, to tie closer to the smash success of Dracula. It's not really present in older werewolf folklore, so it's quite possible that these werewolves can't inflict someone else with lycanthropy. Even if they can, Dana's unlikely to survive all her various injuries (to say nothing of the end of the world), so it's probably not a concern.
2nd Jan '17 5:29:15 PM DesignatedNPC
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*** But the Controllers are not "doing the same thing and expecting different results." The entirety of the operation is based on doing the same thing and expecting ''the same results'', because the results in question ''prevent the destruction of the world.'' "Seeing what comes next" is going to result in one of two things: Utter destruction of everything or a world where some other lifeform emerges and becomes dominant, a lifeform that will return to the performance of ritual murder because they'll still have to deal with the Ancient Ones, who given what little we know of them will likely continue to exist for as long as the world exists. In the case of destruction, "what comes next" is nonexistence; in the case of a new dominant lifeform, the cycle simply continues, only there's 7 billion people gone because two traumatized teenagers decided that if they and their friends had to die everyone else might as well die with them. Additionally, if the Organization's "moral flaw" is that they expect the sacrifices to die without giving them the chance to make that choice, what makes Dana and Marty any better? Not only do they condemn a planet's worth of people to, at best, a quick death (at worst an extended torture, given the Ancient Ones' apparent power and tastes in entertainment) but they give the rest of the world even less choice than they themselves were given: They had the choice to turn back after encountering Mordecai, despite not knowing the stakes at the time. The rest of the world doesn't even get that much from our two brave heroes, and this mass death isn't even a sacrifice because that would mean an expectation that something good would result; when the ritual sacrifices die, it's to preserve the world. When Marty and Dana let the world end it's because they've given up, not enough to simply die but apparently enough to take everyone with them. Ultimately, Marty and Dana ''didn't'' accept their fate, even or especially after the Director explained why it was necessary. The argument that they were somehow representative of "the real human community" or that they "understood mature decision-making" or "had superior moral courage" is hollow because we see none of that demonstrated at the end. When confronted with the reason, when they knew that these deaths were required to prevent the End of the World, they didn't take a second to think about all the people they were condemning to likely worse torment and death than what happened to their friends. Dana and Marty ''are'' murdering and torturing others by proxy, just like the Controllers, but on a vastly larger scale, without the intention of creating something better. Their actions are less a temper tantrum and more the sulking of children: If I can't go to recess (that is, live happily ignorant), then the rest of the class can't either. In fact, Marty and Dana's actions are far closer to those of the Ancient Ones: By the end of the movie, they're content to destroy everything without thought for anyone else because things don't or can't go the way they want it to. Dana and Marty's decision may be understandable, given everything they've been through, but it's nothing but reflexive action at best, utter selfishness at worst.
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