Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / TalesOfVesperia

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


[[/folder:Adephagos]]

to:

[[/folder:Adephagos]][[folder:Adephagos]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[/folder:Adephagos]]
I know enough Japanese to know that Hoshi is star, so when (playing with the Japanese dub) they keep referring to the Hoshihami as the Adephagos things just became confusing, and further research just makes it even more confusing. Hoshihame means star eater. That is a perfectly easy name to translate and has a pretty obvious meaning in universe. The thing filled the sky and stopped people from seeing the stars so they called it the star eater. So why did they localize it as Adephagos? I looked up that word and it's the scientific name for beetles as a suborder...so what? That has no relation at all to an eldritch abomination that's some kind of metaphor for global warming. What was wrong with Star Eater as a name and why did they change it to something so random?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Up To Eleven is a defunct trope


** ... [[VoodooShark That just raises]] [[UpToEleven even more questions]]. When is it established that the phases of the moon have anything to do with the power of the Children of the Full Moon? If they had some sort of weakening-effect, surely Estelle's healing power would have been, y'know, weakened. But it wasn't. And it's not just the Children she refuses to see then: she refuses to take any guests until the night of a new moon. So... why? What's the point of it?

to:

** ... [[VoodooShark That just raises]] [[UpToEleven raises even more questions]]. When is it established that the phases of the moon have anything to do with the power of the Children of the Full Moon? If they had some sort of weakening-effect, surely Estelle's healing power would have been, y'know, weakened. But it wasn't. And it's not just the Children she refuses to see then: she refuses to take any guests until the night of a new moon. So... why? What's the point of it?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Also wait staff and other service type jobs in Japan are almost excessively cheerfully polite and over the top about it, almost like they're playing a character, which a waiter in an JRPG would be expected to do and Yuri would absolutely not do that. Or if he tried would come off as very insincere.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Is "Don" Whitehorse's name or title?]]
It sounds like it would be a title, due to being head of the Guild Union, but the characters sometimes just refer to him as "Don" as if it was his name, as opposed to referring to him as "''the'' Don."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The end of the Brionac retrieval sidequest answers it: [[spoiler:the surviving Blood Alliance members complain that Barbos sold Caer Bocram to Alexei, who destroyed it with his blastia experiments.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the ''The Empty Mask'' supplementary manga, Alexei gave Schwann the shut-off switch for the heart blastia out of guilt when he learns the latter was a DeathSeeker. By the time of Raven's HeelFaceTurn, Alexei would probably like nothing more than to shut off the latter's heart, but if that was the only switch in existence, he no longer has the option of doing so. Though there is the question of why Alexei didn't attempt to either reclaim the switch or build a copy.

to:

* In the ''The Empty Mask'' supplementary manga, Alexei gave Schwann the shut-off switch for the heart blastia out of guilt when he learns the latter was a DeathSeeker. By the time of Raven's HeelFaceTurn, Alexei would probably like nothing more than to shut off the latter's heart, but if that was the only switch in existence, he no longer has the option of doing so. Though there is Worse yet, it turns out the question of why Alexei shut-off switch didn't attempt even work when Raven tried to either reclaim the switch or build a copy.use it, though it's unknown if that was deliberate on Alexei's part.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the ''The Empty Mask'' supplementary manga, Alexei gave Schwann the shut-off switch for the heart blastia out of guilt when he learns the latter was a DeathSeeker. By the time of Raven's HeelFaceTurn, Alexei would probably like nothing more than to shut off the latter's heart, but if that was the only switch in existence, he no longer has the option of doing so.

to:

* In the ''The Empty Mask'' supplementary manga, Alexei gave Schwann the shut-off switch for the heart blastia out of guilt when he learns the latter was a DeathSeeker. By the time of Raven's HeelFaceTurn, Alexei would probably like nothing more than to shut off the latter's heart, but if that was the only switch in existence, he no longer has the option of doing so. Though there is the question of why Alexei didn't attempt to either reclaim the switch or build a copy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* In the ''The Empty Mask'' supplementary manga, Alexei gave Schwann the shut-off switch for the heart blastia out of guilt when he learns the latter was a DeathSeeker. By the time of Raven's HeelFaceTurn, Alexei would probably like nothing more than to shut off the latter's heart, but if that was the only switch in existence, he no longer has the option of doing so.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* That doesn't really pan out though. From Belius I always got the impression that despite the human losses in the great war - which is really never expanded on much to begin with - that the Entelexeia had their population decimated. And as for a threat I mean Alexei straight up murders an Entelexia for it's core, blasting the hell out of it with the Heracles and then later inside it's own shrine stabbing it while mocking the poor thing and how he was once worshiped, and is now just merely fuel for his plans. At that point I got the impression that he's pretty much hunted them to extinction; Belius is dead - her core with the party - Pharaoh has been mortally wounded, Guisos has vanished only to return long after Alexei is gone and the only other one we know of is Khrona, sure there could be others out there - the Superboss is one but he's locked away. Honestly, I don' think there was any underlying "noble cause" that got twisted, Alexei was just a generic take over the world villain, maybe with the excuse that under my banner there will be no more fighting. There wasn't really a plan beyond that, his goal was World Conquest and he was going to use Zaude - he thought it an ancient super weapon - to put the Guilds and the Empire completely under his control.

Changed: 18

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** tl;dr: Alexei was a misguided and badly written extremist, who thought the Entelexeia were ''too powerful'' to be left unchecked.

to:

** tl;dr: Alexei was a misguided and badly written extremist, who thought the Entelexeia were ''too powerful'' to be left unchecked.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Keep in mind that what they actually have is not a prison, but a set of ''jail cells''. The difference being, holding anybody in those cells is going to be extremely temporary and most of the people in them will be there for minor infractions. When Yuri's down there, all the other cells are empty (except for Raven), and all the Knights know Yuri as "that jerk who would never really hurt people", so it's not surprising that the guard who's supposed to watch him is taking a nap. (For more evidence that the Knights know Yuri isn't a bad guy per se, re-watch the scene where Leblanc & Co., when given the choice between pursuing Yuri and pursuing the Red-Eyes, obviously choose the criminals who are actually a danger to citizens. And this is ''after'' kidnapping a princess has been added to Yuri's list of crimes.) Basically: there's hardly anyone in those jail cells for the Royal Family to worry about breaking out. (And also, hardly any Royal Family members actually live in the castle; Ioder, Estelle's only real rival for the throne, grew up outside the Castle.)

to:

* Keep in mind that what they actually have is not a prison, but a set of ''jail cells''. The difference being, holding anybody in those cells is going to be extremely temporary and most of the people in them will be there for minor infractions. When Yuri's down there, all the other cells are empty (except for Raven), and all the Knights know Yuri as "that jerk who would never really hurt people", so it's not surprising that the guard who's supposed to watch him is taking a nap. (For more evidence that the Knights know Yuri isn't a bad guy per se, re-watch rewatch the scene where Leblanc & Co., when given the choice between pursuing Yuri and pursuing the Red-Eyes, obviously choose the criminals who are actually a danger to citizens. And this is ''after'' kidnapping a princess has been added to Yuri's list of crimes.) Basically: there's hardly anyone in those jail cells for the Royal Family to worry about breaking out. (And also, hardly any Royal Family members actually live in the castle; Ioder, Estelle's only real rival for the throne, grew up outside the Castle.)



*** Shadow has been around for as long as the spirits of the four classical elements and Rem is always his counterpart in the games not taking place [[VideoGame/TalesOfPhantasia on]] [[VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia Aseria]]. There really was no reason not to include them like VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss did.
** I imagine they probably didn't want to add more sequences where you had to recruit surviving Entelixaia to become Rem and Shadow. Not to mention; there wasn't really anyone introduced earlier who could have fulfilled the role. Khroma was ''kind'' of pushing it.

to:

*** Shadow has been around for as long as the spirits of the four classical elements and Rem is always his counterpart in the games not taking place [[VideoGame/TalesOfPhantasia on]] [[VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia Aseria]].Aselia]]. There really was no reason not to include them like VideoGame/TalesOfTheAbyss did.
** I imagine they probably didn't want to add more sequences where you had to recruit surviving Entelixaia Entelexeia to become Rem and Shadow. Not to mention; there wasn't really anyone introduced earlier who could have fulfilled the role. Khroma was ''kind'' of pushing it.



** There's no reason they had to kill any Entelexia- they could have used the Clear Ciel Crystal rather than have Duke destroy it and have it become Rem, and they could have gotten Elicufer's apatheia from Ioder, who cites it as a treasure from the war, and create Shadow. I was actually expecting them to use Elucifer's apatheia since he was so important. I doubt very much it would have stopped Duke, though, because he sees spirit conversion as unnatural.

to:

** There's no reason they had to kill any Entelexia- they could have used the Clear Ciel Crystal rather than have Duke destroy it and have it become Rem, and they could have gotten Elicufer's Elucifer's apatheia from Ioder, who cites it as a treasure from the war, and create Shadow. I was actually expecting them to use Elucifer's apatheia since he was so important. I doubt very much it would have stopped Duke, though, because he sees spirit conversion as unnatural.



* Yuri was the reason Cumore fell in the first place. If Yuri hadn't of chased him, he would have never fell, and not helping him in a situation that he directly caused is the same as if he had pushed in Cumore himself, something Yuri himself would likely acknowledge. He may not have hacked Cumore down the way he did Ragou, but lets not kid ourselves, or get bogged down in technicalities, He killed him.

to:

* Yuri was the reason Cumore fell in the first place. If Yuri hadn't of chased him, he would have never fell, and not helping him in a situation that he directly caused is the same as if he had pushed in Cumore himself, something Yuri himself would likely acknowledge. He may not have hacked Cumore down the way he did Ragou, but lets not kid ourselves, or get bogged down in technicalities, He killed him.



*** Okay first of all, I miss remembered. It’s actually the night of the New Moon that she agrees to meet with them. Second of all, it’s obvious that not all Entelexeia have the same abilities, strengths, and weaknesses. Third of all, it’s implied through the fact her duplicate disappears when the torches in the arena are lit, meaning she can only use it in areas with minimal light. Fourth of all, she lived through a war between her species and the species of a civilization that uses magi-tech made from her kind. She may have pride in her species, but she ain’t stupid enough to underestimate what “lowly humans” like the Hunting Blades are capable of.

to:

*** Okay first of all, I miss remembered.misremembered. It’s actually the night of the New Moon that she agrees to meet with them. Second of all, it’s obvious that not all Entelexeia have the same abilities, strengths, and weaknesses. Third of all, it’s implied through the fact her duplicate disappears when the torches in the arena are lit, meaning she can only use it in areas with minimal light. Fourth of all, she lived through a war between her species and the species of a civilization that uses magi-tech magitek made from her kind. She may have pride in her species, but she ain’t stupid enough to underestimate what “lowly humans” like the Hunting Blades are capable of.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* It's a mistaken translation. In the original Japanese, he simply states "destroy."

Added: 687

Changed: 11

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


It feels like the writers realised we were 2/3 of the way into the story, that they hadn't given us a major villain in about twenty hours, and were just kinda banking on us hating him because of his sudden KickTheDog moments instead of examining his philosophy and *why* his plan should be stopped.[[/folder]]

to:

It feels like the writers realised we were 2/3 of the way into the story, that they hadn't given us a major villain in about twenty hours, and were just kinda banking on us hating him because of his sudden KickTheDog moments instead of examining his philosophy and *why* his plan should be stopped.stopped.
*IIRC, Alexei exposits it right before you fight him at Zaude. Witnessing the destructive power of the Entelexeia firsthand and seeing the extreme military might the Empire needed to oppose them, convinced him that mankind was at the mercy of the Entelexeia. Which is why Alexei said he wanted to rid the world of them and Zaude was going to be his trump card, given that the shrine was a glorified Blastia that was powered by [[KryptoniteFactor the one thing]] the Entelexeia feared: the collective life force of the Children of the Full Moon.
**tl;dr: Alexei was a misguided and badly written extremist, who thought the Entelexeia were ''too powerful'' to be left unchecked.
[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* What vital information did she discover that she could only share with him personally? (And if it was about the conspiracy, who messed up and let the information slip?)]]

to:

* What vital information did she discover that she could only share with him personally? (And if it was about the conspiracy, who messed up and let the information slip?)]]slip?)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


[[/folder]]

to:

[[/folder]]


[[folder:What exactly did Alexei want and when is it ever explained to the player?]]
He shows up, twirls his moustache, tells Yuri that his vigilantism just served his purposes ([[PlotHole somehow...]]), and that he was going to free the world from its reliance on the aer, the Empire, and the Entelexeia... [[VoodooShark by using a giant blastia, harvesting apatheia/cores from the Entelexeia, and forcing the entire world under his own new empire]].

How, pray tell, were we supposed to realise what he was after, why it mattered, and how Zaude was going to help him achieve his goals? Because it doesn't feel very much like the game does a good job of explaining any of this.
It feels like the writers realised we were 2/3 of the way into the story, that they hadn't given us a major villain in about twenty hours, and were just kinda banking on us hating him because of his sudden KickTheDog moments instead of examining his philosophy and *why* his plan should be stopped.
[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder:What's the deal with the seal that Zagi was blathering about?]]
In the final battle against Zagi, he tells the party that "There's a seal further on. If you want to get by, you have to take this arm from my body." The camera then pans briefly to show said seal. Yet, after the battle, Yuri just strikes him, causin him to totter back off the edge of the platform they're on and the whole thing is never brought up again. So what was the deal with the seal? Was he simply lying about there being a seal, for no apparent reason? Or is there something missing here?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** @TC: Have you seen the way Yuri talks to people; including his former superiors in the Imperial Knights, and nobility such as Estelle and Ioder? He never shows proper respect, nor does he ever use the proper form of address. In their society (and others like it) that would be considered ill-mannered, especially since he does it deliberately. A fact which Flynn and Sodia both chastise him for and, when they do, he either gets flippant about it, or he simply ignores them.

to:

** @TC: Have you seen the way Yuri talks to people; including his former superiors in the Imperial Knights, and nobility such as Estelle and Ioder? He never shows proper respect, nor does he ever use the proper form of address. In their society (and others like it) that would be considered ill-mannered, especially since he does it deliberately. A fact which Flynn and Sodia both chastise him for and, when they do, he either gets flippant about it, or he simply ignores them. He is also quite flippant towards elders, which is still generally considered fairly rude in most cultures, and is often called out for this as well.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:


* The sword is shown to change shapes depending on the wielder, and we never see a member of the Royal Family wielding it. Maybe if a descendant of the Children of the Full Moon wields the sword, it has some special effect, thus serving as proof that such a person is part of the imperial line. Ioder, despite not showing the same powers Estelle has, is also a descendant of the Children.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** This can be explained by the combination of two things: the barrier blastias and the Great War. The way the game treats the war makes it clear that it pretty much was an apocalypse all on its own, with the Empire being able to hide the events so well that none of the characters who weren't ''in'' the war know much about it, even though it ended just 10 years prior to the game's events. That shouldn't be possible, unless the war was so devastating it practically destroyed the world. It's possible that places like Danghrest were built over ruins of previous cities that got utterly destroyed at the war. As for how the people don't spread around, they need barrier blastias to make cities, and they can't make the things, only find them. So every city needs to be built over the ruins of a previous one, and even then, it needs to be a city that has a still-functioning core for the barrier blastia. Maybe the other continents were originally places where the Entelexia lived, or their cities were destroyed so utterly that no core survived, so they can't be properly colonised.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Duke and Dein Nomons

Added DiffLines:

* One thing I always wondered was how Dein Nomos vanished and how Duke came into possession of it. And this - combined with some minor exposition - got me thinking that perhaps this whole mess with the sword is some kind of abandoned plot point. Pretty early in the game, just before you get to Deidon Hold, if you enter the King of Adventure traveling inn, there's a few lines of throwaway dialogue from Estelle about the origin of that name that says something to the effect that the late Emperor - the guy who died 10 years ago - had a younger brother who had become a pretty famous explorer/adventurer, traveling to and mapping distant lands, before he just vanished without a trace - through the optional Giganto monster sidequest it explained later on that he and most of his force were wiped out by Giganto monsters. I was thoroughly convinced for much of the game that Duke was this missing prince, which would explain how Dein Nomos ended up in his hands - perhaps he took it, maybe with his older brother's permission - and it would also explain, at least partially, how he knows so much about the world and it's hidden history.

**I mean it might even explain the succession crisis itself. Though it's never directly stated, tangential information seems to suggest that the Emperor died childless, and that Estelle and Ioder - who call each other cousins - are somewhat distant relatives, both to each other and the late Emperor - I base this on the fact that if either Estelle or Ioder were the child or more likely grandchild of the Emperor, it surely would have been stated at least somewhere and that sword or no if a direct descendant existed, there probably wouldn't be a crisis.

**As for the crisis, going any further is just hypothesizing but, doing so and taking a guess, then probably, at the closest - if we assume the Emperor was a decently old man (60-80) when he died and had no other siblings besides the one younger brother - then the Emperor's Grandfather/Grandmother (Two rulers ago), would be be a Great-Great Grandparent of Estelle and Ioder, or another way the Emperor's Father/Mother (One ruler ago) would have be Estelle and Ioder's Great-Great Uncle/Aunt, being the sibling of one of Estelle and Ioder's Great Grandparents. This would make Estelle and Ioder - at least - Third Cousins, Twice Removed to the Emperor, a pretty decent distance, and could account for the sede vacante stalemate when both halves of the "King-making" apparatus, the Knights and the Council respectively, support a different candidate. Which might be how Dein Nomos got involved, beyond being ceremonial, the sword is a symbol that could be used to further confer legitimacy to a candidate as a political move. Further if Duke were to be the missing prince, and at least some people knew that decades ago he was the last person to have the sword, then in the Empire's mind the possibility that he might have sired unknown descendants, potentially in the possession of Dein Nomos and a more legitimate blood claim to the throne, might be a reason to wait and search for the sword and potentially any issue of the lost prince. Furthermore, to circle back above, to political symbology, the recovery of the sword - even in absence of any unknown royal line - could be used to symbolically invoke the missing prince's claim and shore up the legitimacy of one candidate.

**Of course there's no real in game proof for any of this, and there are many other odd throwaway lines - including several others about the Empire and the royal family - often to showcase Estelle's encyclopedic knowledge; at the same time, it just feels all too specific for these tidbits to come up right as you can meet Duke for the first time in Deidon Hold.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Joining a guild is not compulsory, so you can say that following a guild's rules ''is'' following the laws you set for yourself. You agreed to them, they're your laws as much as they are the guild's laws. Likewise, a guild may or may not opt to join the Union, and follow their specific rules. There's nothing keeping a person from never joining or forming a guild, and really doing whatever they want. They ''are'' free to do whatever they want, the guilds are just a system that allows people who don't want to live in total anarchy to group together.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Red-Eyes are just a nickname for members of Leviathan's Claw, due to the goggles they were as part of their uniform. Their rather flexible and boneless movements may just be due to the fighting style.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]

[[folder:Who gave Zagi his blastia prosthetic arm?]]
Leviathan's Claw? Alexei? That MadScientist from ''First Strike''? Some other third party we don't know about? It seems very unlikely Zagi did it himself since he's too deranged to know about medical aid, let alone blastia tech. To top it off, his arm gets upgraded between his fourth and fifth encounters (well past the point where both Alexei and Leviathan's Claw are no longer relevant), so someone has to be working with Zagi to conduct maintenance on it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Yuri's repeatedly noted as being rude, but in all the skits and most dialogue, Yuri is actually surprisingly polite, considerate, and reasonable. His "rudest" moments are just him being blunt. Hell, compared to Rita, he's practically a gentleman, but one of the excuses Yuri is given (courtesy of Raven) for why he's not part of the waiter minigame is "a rude waiter like Yuri'd be bad for business". But... Yuri is the most polite of the three guys and the least likely of them to offend anyone? In a skit he says he just doesn't want to do it because it's a bother and it's boring, but Rita of all people doesn't? I just fail to see how Yuri is so rude it's commented on several times and he agrees he's rude (less so this since Yuri clearly has a low opinion of himself).

to:

Yuri's *Yuri's repeatedly noted as being rude, but in all the skits and most dialogue, Yuri is actually surprisingly polite, considerate, and reasonable. His "rudest" moments are just him being blunt. Hell, compared to Rita, he's practically a gentleman, but one of the excuses Yuri is given (courtesy of Raven) for why he's not part of the waiter minigame is "a rude waiter like Yuri'd be bad for business". But... Yuri is the most polite of the three guys and the least likely of them to offend anyone? In a skit he says he just doesn't want to do it because it's a bother and it's boring, but Rita of all people doesn't? I just fail to see how Yuri is so rude it's commented on several times and he agrees he's rude (less so this since Yuri clearly has a low opinion of himself).



** @TC: Have you seen the way Yuri talks to people; including his former superiors in the Imperial Knights, and nobility such as Estelle and Ioder? He never shows proper respect, nor does he ever use the proper form of address. In their society (and others like it) that would be considered ill-mannered, especially since he does it deliberately. A fact which Flynn and Sodia both chastise him for.

to:

** @TC: Have you seen the way Yuri talks to people; including his former superiors in the Imperial Knights, and nobility such as Estelle and Ioder? He never shows proper respect, nor does he ever use the proper form of address. In their society (and others like it) that would be considered ill-mannered, especially since he does it deliberately. A fact which Flynn and Sodia both chastise him for. for and, when they do, he either gets flippant about it, or he simply ignores them.

Added: 126

Changed: 131

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


[[folder: So the conflict between Yuri and Flynn over his killings of Ragou and Cumore. I'm going to put it bluntly: who exactly does the game side with? I've been trying to figure that one out for some time now.]]

to:

[[folder: So the The conflict between Yuri and Flynn over his killings of Ragou and Cumore. Cumore]]
*
I'm going to put it bluntly: who exactly does the game side with? I've been trying to figure that one out for some time now.]]

Top