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History Headscratchers / StarTrekIVTheVoyageHome

18th May '16 6:04:06 PM costanton11
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*** Memory Alpha gave those dates, but where they got those dates isn't clear, so it could be a mistake.
16th May '16 12:22:17 PM Bense
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** Nothing in the movies themselves pin down the dates that accurately, so the external "sources" must be simply wrong.
9th May '16 2:09:22 PM costanton11
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Timeline issues]]
* According to sources, Star Trek II and III both take place in 2285, while the present-day sections of Star Trek IV, for the crew, take place in 2286. The Wrath of Khan takes place around Kirk's birthday, which is March 22. The Search for Spock takes place at most a few weeks later and the Voyage Home is set three months after the Search for Spock. How could it be 2286 already when Wrath of Khan which was in March, possibly to April 2285, only took place a little over three months earlier?
9th May '16 2:04:11 PM costanton11
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** It was this troper's belief that the scene is Kirk (or one of the other crewmembers) Dreaming of Things to Come.

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** It was this troper's belief that the scene is Kirk (or one of the other crewmembers) crew members) Dreaming of Things to Come.



** Novelisation aside, I always just assumed that it was automated and when it couldn't contact the whales it ramped up the power on the transmitter to full and kept looking, uncomprehending of the damage.

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** Novelisation Novelization aside, I always just assumed that it was automated and when it couldn't contact the whales it ramped up the power on the transmitter to full and kept looking, uncomprehending of the damage.



** There was a sequel novel, ''Probe'', dealing with the Probe's origins. The makers were a telekinetic race of superdolphins that were big enough to made earthly Blue Whales look like mice. They once shared their world with "mites" - humanoids - but the humanoids were wiped out in a chance meteor collision, what they referred to as the Winnowing. They considered it their mission to track, encourage, and protect other forms of life like them, i.e., cetaceans. One day, however, the Borg came to visit their system. There was a tremendous fight, where they held off the Borg from their planet - but the Borg still won by snuffing out the system's sun. They had just enough time to construct lifeboats, then departed in all directions, never to be heard from again. At the same time, the Probe also encountered the Borg - it ''won'' that fight, but the result was badly damaged memory, and it was unable to return to help its creators. It's an artifact of an apparently extinct race, from a different time, carrying on the only programming still intact within it.

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** There was a sequel novel, ''Probe'', dealing with the Probe's origins. The makers were a telekinetic race of superdolphins super-dolphins that were big enough to made earthly Blue Whales look like mice. They once shared their world with "mites" - humanoids - but the humanoids were wiped out in a chance meteor collision, what they referred to as the Winnowing. They considered it their mission to track, encourage, and protect other forms of life like them, i.e., cetaceans. One day, however, the Borg came to visit their system. There was a tremendous fight, where they held off the Borg from their planet - but the Borg still won by snuffing out the system's sun. They had just enough time to construct lifeboats, then departed in all directions, never to be heard from again. At the same time, the Probe also encountered the Borg - it ''won'' that fight, but the result was badly damaged memory, and it was unable to return to help its creators. It's an artifact of an apparently extinct race, from a different time, carrying on the only programming still intact within it.



*** See above. They were indeed Levianthan-sized dolphins, but exactly how specieist they were remains open to interpretation, since all land life on their planet was wiped out. The Probe, on the other hand, is pretty blatantly hostile, when the cetaceans it was assigned to shepherd actually call out to it for help...

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*** See above. They were indeed Levianthan-sized Leviathan-sized dolphins, but exactly how specieist they were remains open to interpretation, since all land life on their planet was wiped out. The Probe, on the other hand, is pretty blatantly hostile, when the cetaceans it was assigned to shepherd actually call out to it for help...



** The morality of the probe isn't really at issue in the movie. This thing has, without even trying, completely overwhelmed Earth's defences and is effortlessly destroying the planet's biosphere. The only thing the characters can do is to figure out what the probe wants, try to give it to the thing, and hope it goes away before everyone dies. Starfleet can debate ethics after all the water drains back in the ocean and they've buried their dead.

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** The morality of the probe isn't really at issue in the movie. This thing has, without even trying, completely overwhelmed Earth's defences defenses and is effortlessly destroying the planet's biosphere. The only thing the characters can do is to figure out what the probe wants, try to give it to the thing, and hope it goes away before everyone dies. Starfleet can debate ethics after all the water drains back in the ocean and they've buried their dead.



** It's a machine, or is at least assumed to be. Presumably it was simply assumed what the probe was doing was simply based on faulty programming (the whales are not answering, and the probe's own internal logic means it is going to keep on trying, overlooking the consequences it was never designed to take into account). Alternatively, as an alien artefact of unknown and barely-explainable origin, the probe's designers could work on a system of BlueAndOrangeMorality.

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** It's a machine, or is at least assumed to be. Presumably it was simply assumed what the probe was doing was simply based on faulty programming (the whales are not answering, and the probe's own internal logic means it is going to keep on trying, overlooking the consequences it was never designed to take into account). Alternatively, as an alien artefact artifact of unknown and barely-explainable origin, the probe's designers could work on a system of BlueAndOrangeMorality.



** I always assumed it was just Spock trying to politely give Bones the brush off and Bones just reacting as he normally did when he recognised he was about to be given the Vulcan runaround.

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** I always assumed it was just Spock trying to politely give Bones the brush off and Bones just reacting as he normally did when he recognised recognized he was about to be given the Vulcan runaround.



*** The universal translators work by finding commonalities between languages... it listens to someone speaking, does its best to figure out syntax and structure from other, similarly structured languages, and then translates it. If the whalesong language was sufficiently different from the majority/all other languages in its databanks, and the probe wasn't giving them enough to work with or was referring to concepts in ways that were sufficiently different from the programmers' understanding, it wouldn't work. Simple as that.

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*** The universal translators work by finding commonalities between languages... it listens to someone speaking, does its best to figure out syntax and structure from other, similarly structured languages, and then translates it. If the whalesong whale-song language was sufficiently different from the majority/all other languages in its databanks, and the probe wasn't giving them enough to work with or was referring to concepts in ways that were sufficiently different from the programmers' understanding, it wouldn't work. Simple as that.


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*** Technically, Kirk was only marginally connected to David's death. First off, David was performing a scientific evaluation of Genesis. The events of the Wrath of Khan didn't necessarily change his anti-militaristic views as much as it made him realize that there was more to Starfleet than he thought. Then the Klingons showed up and destroyed the Grissom for reasons completely unrelated to Kirk. David and company had already been captured by the Klingons by the time Kirk had arrived at Genesis for completely unrelated reasons. You could argue that David being killed was done to get Kirk to surrender, but even then Kirk doesn't have much fault for it, because one, the Klingons didn't know David's relationship to Kirk, and two, they didn't even choose him to be the one to be killed. It was implied that they were going for Saavik and then David interfered and got himself killed. Carol may initially irrational blame Kirk in her grief, but when you look back at the situation, which Carol would have had three months to do, the blame can't be solely laid at Kirk's feet, and in any case, the Klingons were the ones who did the deed.
9th May '16 9:40:37 AM Bense
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*** That was just bluster by the Klingon ambassador. It didn't need a rebuttal because everyone knew it was just bluster.
6th May '16 10:41:00 AM costanton11
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*** Still, one might think she would have something to say about the Klingon's claims of the Genesis planet being a secret base to annihilate the Klingons.
6th May '16 8:17:24 AM Bense
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** Carol may well blame Kirk for David's death, not the Klingons. Despite his anti-military views, David ran off with Starfleet as soon as he found out who his father was, and that's essentially what killed him.
28th Apr '16 11:40:28 AM costanton11
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Where's Carol Marcus?]]
* While the obvious answer is that they couldn't get the actress to come back, what in-universe reason is there for Carol Marcus not to have shown up at the Klingon ambassador's presentation? Even if she was still mourning David's death, wouldn't she want to see that Kirk not be persecuted by the Klingons for his part in the death of the people who killed their son? Plus, you think she would have something to say about the device that she and her son created to solve problems like overcrowding and hunger being accused of being a weapon to destroy the Klingon's, especially considering David's staunchly anti-military view.
19th Apr '16 3:16:06 PM Bense
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** Scotty probably wasn't comfortable about the promotion to Captain of Engineering, since it was on the ''Excelsior'' and he only stayed on long enough to sabotage that ship. So when he re-programmed a Vulcan replicator to give him a current, more comfortable working uniform while he worked on the ''Bounty'' he also chose to give himself Commander's insignia.
16th Apr '16 10:37:45 AM costanton11
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Scotty's uniform]]
* Most of the crew is wearing the same clothes as they were in the last movie, which makes sense since they weren't able to bring extra clothes. But in the last movie, Scotty was wearing a suede jacket over a gold turtleneck, this being a casual dress uniform for captains and above. But in the beginning of this movie, he's wearing the suede jacket, which he mostly discards except for meeting the aluminum guy, over a white turtleneck and black engineering vest. These are shown to be Starfleet uniforms since he wears them in the following movies, so had did he get the other uniforms? Not to mention that in Star Trek III, the jacket had captain's rank insignia, since he was just promoted, but here the jacket has commander's rank insignia, as does his standard uniform seen at the end. The standard uniform can be explained because in the last movie, he was never seen wearing it after being told of his promotion, so he probably didn't have it changed, but why did the insignia change on the casual uniform?
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