History Headscratchers / SpecOpsTheLine

31st May '17 5:54:38 PM Spacer276
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** It's been suggested that like the Deltas, the CIA's initial mission was to look for survivors, though it's hard to say if they went in before or after Konrad's ill-fated evacuation attempt (most likely after as that was the last the outside had heard). They couldn't have been sent in before the 33rd as the battalion was the first response, so they may have been sent after months had passed with no sighting of a refugee trail. With Gould's uncertainty, chances are no one inside the city had seen the good colonel for a good while, which for agents like Gould is reasonable grounds to not automatically assume they're still alive. Considering the nightmare Dubai had become, it was probably a pragmatic choice: Konrad hadn't been seen for a good while but the Radioman and the 33rd certainly made it look like he was still alive, kicking and in control. So it was probably safer to be unsure than to rely on comparatively old intel as a lot can happen to a person in two weeks, especially in a prolonged warzone.

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** It's been suggested that like the Deltas, the CIA's initial mission was to look for survivors, survivors though it's hard to say if they went in before or after Konrad's ill-fated evacuation attempt (most attempt, but they would have sent their own teams to investigate the lost contact situation. When it came to the question of Konrad being alive, Gould didn't ''explicitly'' say he didn't know. He was was likely after working off aged intel and as that a CIA operative his instinct was the last the outside had heard). They couldn't have been sent to be skeptical in before the 33rd as the battalion was the first response, so they may have been sent after months had passed with no sighting of a refugee trail. With Gould's uncertainty, chances are no one inside the city had seen the good colonel for a good while, which for agents like Gould is reasonable grounds to not automatically assume they're still alive. Considering the nightmare Dubai had become, case it was probably a pragmatic choice: Konrad hadn't been seen for a good while out of date. Being the Company man that he was, his response to inquiry was "yes, but the Radioman and the 33rd certainly made it look like he was still alive, kicking and in control. So it was probably safer information's not up to be unsure than to rely on comparatively old intel as a lot can happen to a person in two weeks, especially in a prolonged warzone.
date."
27th May '17 12:25:17 PM nombretomado
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** Even if the possibility of various nations in the Middle East uniting against the US and the former defeating the latter in a military context is a remote one, I don't believe that that means the CIA nevertheless taking preventative measures to avoid that happening is that implausible. It's by no means the first time in US history that the nation has used the threat of some decidedly unlikely possible negative outcome of events in order to justify some rather morally questionable actions in foreign nations. Think about it: is "we have to kill the survivors of the Dubai sandstorm or else several Middle Eastern nations will band together and declare war on us" ''that'' much more ridiculous a proposition than "[[TheVietnamWar we have to intervene in Vietnam, because if one country falls to communism, then the surrounding countries will do likewise in a kind of domino effect]]"? What's more, the US military killed ''far'' more civilians in Vietnam than the CIA was intending to in Dubai according to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties#Civilian_deaths_in_Vietnam_war various estimates]]. All things considered, it doesn't strike the troper as ''that'' far-fetched a clandestine operation.

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** Even if the possibility of various nations in the Middle East uniting against the US and the former defeating the latter in a military context is a remote one, I don't believe that that means the CIA nevertheless taking preventative measures to avoid that happening is that implausible. It's by no means the first time in US history that the nation has used the threat of some decidedly unlikely possible negative outcome of events in order to justify some rather morally questionable actions in foreign nations. Think about it: is "we have to kill the survivors of the Dubai sandstorm or else several Middle Eastern nations will band together and declare war on us" ''that'' much more ridiculous a proposition than "[[TheVietnamWar "[[UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar we have to intervene in Vietnam, because if one country falls to communism, then the surrounding countries will do likewise in a kind of domino effect]]"? What's more, the US military killed ''far'' more civilians in Vietnam than the CIA was intending to in Dubai according to [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties#Civilian_deaths_in_Vietnam_war various estimates]]. All things considered, it doesn't strike the troper as ''that'' far-fetched a clandestine operation.
18th May '17 7:11:34 PM Spacer276
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** It's been stated that like the Deltas, the CIA's initial mission was to look for survivors, though it's hard to say though if they went in before or after Konrad's ill-fated evacuation attempt. Regarding Gould's uncertainty, chances are no one inside the city had seen the good colonel for a good while. Considering the nightmare Dubai had become, it was probably a pragmatic choice: Konrad hadn't been seen for a good while but the 33rd certainly made it look like he was still alive, kicking and in control. It was probably wiser to be unsure than to live off old intel - a lot can happen to a person in two weeks.

to:

** It's been stated suggested that like the Deltas, the CIA's initial mission was to look for survivors, though it's hard to say though if they went in before or after Konrad's ill-fated evacuation attempt. Regarding attempt (most likely after as that was the last the outside had heard). They couldn't have been sent in before the 33rd as the battalion was the first response, so they may have been sent after months had passed with no sighting of a refugee trail. With Gould's uncertainty, chances are no one inside the city had seen the good colonel for a good while. while, which for agents like Gould is reasonable grounds to not automatically assume they're still alive. Considering the nightmare Dubai had become, it was probably a pragmatic choice: Konrad hadn't been seen for a good while but the Radioman and the 33rd certainly made it look like he was still alive, kicking and in control. It So it was probably wiser safer to be unsure than to live off rely on comparatively old intel - as a lot can happen to a person in two weeks.
weeks, especially in a prolonged warzone.
18th May '17 6:54:21 PM Spacer276
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to:

** It's been stated that like the Deltas, the CIA's initial mission was to look for survivors, though it's hard to say though if they went in before or after Konrad's ill-fated evacuation attempt. Regarding Gould's uncertainty, chances are no one inside the city had seen the good colonel for a good while. Considering the nightmare Dubai had become, it was probably a pragmatic choice: Konrad hadn't been seen for a good while but the 33rd certainly made it look like he was still alive, kicking and in control. It was probably wiser to be unsure than to live off old intel - a lot can happen to a person in two weeks.
10th May '17 7:12:41 PM CHLORINEGARGOYLE
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to:

**** "DontLikeDontRead" is never ever EVER a valid response for criticism. Art or fiction should be criticized of its faults, regardless of whether or not fans claim you can just do something else. The game, for such a broad and personal statement, ''should'' be criticized if it's going to be considered "high art" or "post-modernist".
14th Mar '17 7:37:00 PM WorgenDeathKnight
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** There's a few possibilities. The first is that one of Konrad's last orders was simply not to come up to his penthouse for any reason, which does skirt the boundaries of 'plausible' a bit since eventually they'd radio up or send a guy up (orders be damned). The second is they simply didn't KNOW he was there at all considering there's zero guards around the penthouse and Adam's last stand can't have caused every single soldier - particularly those guarding their CO - to come running. The third, and perhaps most thematically fitting, is that the 33rd - at least those who find him - were simply in denial about his death, not unlike Walker. This also ties into why they'd not leave any guards around his penthouse, because they don't actually need any.

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** There's a few possibilities. The first is that one of Konrad's last orders was simply not to come up to his penthouse for any reason, which does skirt the boundaries of 'plausible' a bit since eventually they'd radio up or send a guy up (orders be damned). The second is they simply didn't KNOW he was there at all considering there's zero guards around the penthouse and Adam's last stand can't have caused every single soldier - particularly those guarding their CO - to come running. The third, and perhaps most thematically fitting, is that the 33rd - at least those who find him - were simply in denial about his death, not unlike Walker. This also ties into why It was easier to pretend they were still following their (living) CO's wishes, rather than admit to themselves that their beloved leader realised he'd fucked up big time and topped himself and they'd not leave any guards around his penthouse, because they don't actually need any.(metaphorically) damned themselves for nothing.
14th Mar '17 7:35:33 PM WorgenDeathKnight
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* Konrad committed suicide two weeks before the events of the game, yet no one thought to bury his body? I understand that full military honors may be impossible in a war zone, especially considering there's no way to send the body back home, but there's got to have been something the 33rd could have done besides leaving him slumped in a chair with a hole in his head. Quite an undignified death for such a respected military leader.

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* Konrad committed suicide two weeks before the events of the game, yet no one thought to bury his body? I understand that full military honors may be impossible in a war zone, especially considering there's no way to send the body back home, but there's got to have been something the 33rd could have done besides leaving him slumped in a chair with a hole in his head. Quite an undignified death for such a respected military leader.leader.
** There's a few possibilities. The first is that one of Konrad's last orders was simply not to come up to his penthouse for any reason, which does skirt the boundaries of 'plausible' a bit since eventually they'd radio up or send a guy up (orders be damned). The second is they simply didn't KNOW he was there at all considering there's zero guards around the penthouse and Adam's last stand can't have caused every single soldier - particularly those guarding their CO - to come running. The third, and perhaps most thematically fitting, is that the 33rd - at least those who find him - were simply in denial about his death, not unlike Walker. This also ties into why they'd not leave any guards around his penthouse, because they don't actually need any.
19th Feb '17 6:04:27 AM DoctorNemesis
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to:

** There's also the valid question of how many men "all the rest of the 33rd" by that point consists of. By that point, after weeks of low rations, trying to maintain order in an increasingly chaotic and insane post-apocalyptic ruined city, an unprecedentedly massive sandstorm, low morale, and being gunned down by various forces including Walker and his mates, for all we know by that point "the rest of the 33rd" consists of a few dozen men, if that. Which might be tricky, but isn't entirely impossible odds for one man with a gun and enough ammunition.
13th Dec '16 10:51:44 AM dracogeorge
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Added DiffLines:

*** Actually, according to the IMFDB, [[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Spec_Ops:_The_Line#M224_Mortar the mortar]] used in game actually can't fire a WP round that would have the effect shown in game. The best it could do is a smoke marker round containing under a pound of white phosphorous, and it has an impact fuse, meaning it goes off when it hits the ground rather than airbursting like the rounds in game. According to them, the round that would work most like in the game is a 155mm one, meant for howitzers, not mortars (the M224 fires 60mm, and the largest caliber ever used by the modern US Army for a mortar is 120mm). So yeah, standard issue or not, they wouldn't have rounds or be able to fire rounds that would act like that.
21st Sep '16 6:58:31 PM Wveth
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Added DiffLines:

*** If you're not emotionally invested in fiction, then that's fine, but it's absolutely not a matter of not distinguishing fantasy from reality. One of the major purposes of fiction is to engage on an emotional level. Suspension of disbelief. We understand that what we're reading/watching/playing is not real. Very few people have an actual problem with this. It's cathartic and healthy to be able to step into a fantasy, allow yourself to feel powerful emotions, and then step out and leave those emotions behind. This is why fiction has endured. Spec Ops: The Line is merely criticizing the worst possible variant of that generally good thing called emotive catharsis: when the power fantasy becomes our only frame of reference when we're asked to consider a real, complex situation.
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