History Headscratchers / Rap

16th Oct '16 2:40:17 PM marbehraglaim
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** I think you're oversimplifying the issue. Yes, there have been good and even great white rappers. But they are far more the exception than the rule. Rapping is based heavily on the speech of inner-city blacks in the United States. In fact, there's a case for saying that it's impossible to rap without imitating that speech to some degree. If a person "raps" while sounding entirely like an average middle-class white American (or Brit, or Frenchman), there's a point where you have to say it isn't rap anymore but just some form of chanting or Sprechgesang [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprechgesang]]. It's almost intrinsic to the definition of rapping--much more so than earlier musical forms pioneered by African Americans such as jazz, R&B, and funk, where a lot of white artists ''have'' attempted to imitate black speech, but where it isn't strictly necessary in order to be recognizable as belonging to one of those genres. That, I believe, is a big reason why so many white rappers end up sounding silly and awkward--the speech isn't natural to them, which in turn calls attention to the fact that they're mostly people of privileged backgrounds trying to appropriate the speech of poor, urban minorities. Eminem never had this problem since he actually grew up in inner-city Detroit and is thus intimately familiar with this speech. In other words, he had exactly the sort of upbringing that Vanilla Ice falsely claimed to have had. He's regarded as the Olivier of white rappers in part because of his talent and creativity, but also because he has a certain authenticity lacking in many other whites who have explored the genre. So while it clearly isn't impossible for a white person to rap well, it's hard.
15th May '16 9:16:03 AM PhysicalStamina
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*** It's worth mentioning that this is less common in underground rap where you have producers like DJ Premier who uses sampling in almost all of his beats, and has consequently produced entire albums with samples, even today. Big record companies don't go after these guys because they're not big enough to get that kin dof attention, and because they're aren't selling millions of copies and thus aren't making huge amounts of money off of their albums. And even ''in'' mainstream rap, it's not like sampling like that never happens anymore. Kendrick Lamar's "Sing About Me" makes great use of Grant Green's "Maybe Tomorrow" and a drum break in Bill Withers' "Use Me" half a bar long. "Money Trees" by the same artist takes a reversed loop of "Silver Soul" by Beach House and, by adding a bass line, extra instruments, gives it a whole new dimension. Jay-Z's "Kingdom Come" features an excellent chop job of Rick James' "Super Freak" by Just Blaze. ''Furthermore'', the "loop-it-and-leave-it" method was common in the "golden age" too; the difference was it was often smaller loops stacked on top of each other. Other times, you had songs like A Tribe Called Quest's "Award Tour" which used a 4-bar loop of Weldon Irvine's "We Gettin' Down", Jay-Z again with "Feelin' It", Naughty By Nature - "Feel Me Flow"... hell, as much as I like Gang Starr, many songs on ''Step In The Arena'' and ''Daily Operation'' were just Guru rapping over one/two-bar loops, sometimes with an added kick drum track. And besides [[TropesAreTools why should said method automatically be a bad thing?]] A loop, with tight drums and a good bassline, can create a great beat, though simplistic.

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*** It's worth mentioning that this is less common in underground rap where you have producers like DJ Premier who uses sampling in almost all of his beats, and has consequently produced entire albums with samples, even today. Big record companies don't go after these guys because they're not big enough to get that kin dof kind of attention, and because they're aren't selling millions of copies and thus aren't making huge amounts of money off of their albums. And even ''in'' mainstream rap, it's not like sampling like that never happens anymore. Kendrick Lamar's "Sing About Me" makes great use of Grant Green's "Maybe Tomorrow" and a drum break in Bill Withers' "Use Me" half a bar long. "Money Trees" by the same artist takes a reversed loop of "Silver Soul" by Beach House and, by adding a bass line, extra instruments, gives it a whole new dimension. Jay-Z's "Kingdom Come" features an excellent chop job of Rick James' "Super Freak" by Just Blaze. ''Furthermore'', the "loop-it-and-leave-it" method was common in the "golden age" too; the difference was it was often smaller loops stacked on top of each other. Other times, you had songs like A Tribe Called Quest's "Award Tour" which used a 4-bar loop of Weldon Irvine's "We Gettin' Down", Jay-Z again with "Feelin' It", Naughty By Nature - "Feel Me Flow"... hell, as much as I like Gang Starr, many songs on ''Step In The Arena'' and ''Daily Operation'' were just Guru rapping over one/two-bar loops, sometimes with an added kick drum track. And besides [[TropesAreTools why should said method automatically be a bad thing?]] A loop, with tight drums and a good bassline, can create a great beat, though simplistic.
14th Jan '16 11:20:42 AM Morgenthaler
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** To be honest, rappers nowadays are slowly reaching back to the singing aspect, at least the mainstream ones. This troper won't put the following example as the main thing which set the fad ablaze, but Music/KanyeWest's ''808's & Heartbreak'' certainly pushed things in that direction. These days you'll have emcees like LilWayne and WizKhalifa giving into it every now and then. Drake is also a big contributor to this, being heavy on the R&B side. KidCudi is another who has helped the fad resurface. Eminem has been generally notorious for singing hooks as well. I would say it's not a far cry from that time where every emcee and their mother had Akon/R Kelly/T-Pain on the hook.

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** To be honest, rappers nowadays are slowly reaching back to the singing aspect, at least the mainstream ones. This troper won't put the following example as the main thing which set the fad ablaze, but Music/KanyeWest's ''808's & Heartbreak'' certainly pushed things in that direction. These days you'll have emcees like LilWayne Music/LilWayne and WizKhalifa Music/WizKhalifa giving into it every now and then. Drake is also a big contributor to this, being heavy on the R&B side. KidCudi Music/KidCudi is another who has helped the fad resurface. Eminem has been generally notorious for singing hooks as well. I would say it's not a far cry from that time where every emcee and their mother had Akon/R Kelly/T-Pain on the hook.
30th Oct '15 7:38:21 PM nombretomado
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** It could also be to boost another singer's popularity. Case in point, {{Kesha}} guesting in Flo Rida's "Right Round" shortly before [[WaxingLyrical waking up in the morning feeling like P. Diddy.]]
** To be honest, rappers nowadays are slowly reaching back to the singing aspect, at least the mainstream ones. This troper won't put the following example as the main thing which set the fad ablaze, but KanyeWest 's ''808's & Heartbreak'' certainly pushed things in that direction. These days you'll have emcees like LilWayne and WizKhalifa giving into it every now and then. Drake is also a big contributor to this, being heavy on the R&B side. KidCudi is another who has helped the fad resurface. Eminem has been generally notorious for singing hooks as well. I would say it's not a far cry from that time where every emcee and their mother had Akon/R Kelly/T-Pain on the hook.

to:

** It could also be to boost another singer's popularity. Case in point, {{Kesha}} Music/{{Kesha}} guesting in Flo Rida's "Right Round" shortly before [[WaxingLyrical waking up in the morning feeling like P. Diddy.]]
** To be honest, rappers nowadays are slowly reaching back to the singing aspect, at least the mainstream ones. This troper won't put the following example as the main thing which set the fad ablaze, but KanyeWest 's Music/KanyeWest's ''808's & Heartbreak'' certainly pushed things in that direction. These days you'll have emcees like LilWayne and WizKhalifa giving into it every now and then. Drake is also a big contributor to this, being heavy on the R&B side. KidCudi is another who has helped the fad resurface. Eminem has been generally notorious for singing hooks as well. I would say it's not a far cry from that time where every emcee and their mother had Akon/R Kelly/T-Pain on the hook.
9th Oct '15 8:38:54 AM SmirkingRevenge
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**** Just because we haven't been collectively abused as a race, doesn't mean that there aren't a few idiots who think that being black allows them to insult white people.

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**** Just because we haven't been collectively abused as a race, race doesn't mean that there aren't a few idiots who think that being black allows them to insult white people.
9th Oct '15 8:35:31 AM SmirkingRevenge
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**** Just because we haven't been collectively abused as a race, doesn't mean that there aren't a few idiots who think that being black allows them to insult white people.
18th Mar '15 11:02:29 AM PhysicalStamina
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*** It's worth mentioning that this is less common in underground rap where you have producers like DJ Premier who uses sampling in almost all of his beats, and has consequently produced entire albums with samples, even today. Big record companies don't go after these guys because they're not big enough to get that kin dof attention, and because they're aren't selling millions of copies and thus aren't making huge amounts of money off of their albums. And even ''in'' mainstream rap, it's not like sampling like that never happens anymore. Kendrick Lamar's "Sing About Me" makes great use of Grant Green's "Maybe Tomorrow" and a drum break in Bill Withers' "Use Me" half a bar long. "Money Trees" by the same artist takes a reversed loop of "Silver Soul" by Beach House and, by adding a bass line, extra instruments, gives it a whole new dimension. Jay-Z's "Kingdom Come" features an excellent chop job of Rick James' "Super Freak" by Just Blaze. ''Furthermore'', the "loop-it-and-leave-it" method was common in the "golden age" too; the difference was it was often smaller loops stacked on top of each other. Other times, you had songs like A Tribe Called Quest's "Award Tour" which used a 4-bar loop of Weldon Irvine's "We Gettin' Down", Jay-Z again with "Feelin' It", Naughty By Nature - "Feel Me Flow"... hell, as much as I like Gang Starr, many songs on ''Step In The Arena'' and ''Daily Operation'' were just Guru rapping over one/two-bar loops, sometimes with an added kick drum track. And besides [[TropesAreTools why should said method automatically be a bad thing?]] A loop, with tight drums and a good bassline, can create a great beat, though simplistic.
18th Mar '15 10:15:04 AM PhysicalStamina
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*** Only Dre is responsible; he personally made Tupac, Jay-Z, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, and so much more. The East Coast (Puffy, Biggie, Wu Tang, etc.) and Dirty South (TI, Lil Wayne, Nelly, etc.) turned gangsta only because Dre had made it so marketable; gangsta could be defined as the imitation of Dre. He's pretty much the ultimate rapper, and also produced a huge quantity and variety of hip-hop; but on his own albums, he prefers to glorify crime and weed, and his two favorite words begin with N and B. I have no doubt that gangsta's current creakiness is a sign that Dre is getting old.** Except Dre didn't "create" 2pac and Jay-Z. And the south already had gangsta rappers with artists like Gangsta NIP, UGK, and the geto boys. loooong before rappers like T.I. Lil Wayne and Nelly showed up. and since when was Nelly a gangsta rapper?!?!? Also gangsta rap did NOT only talk about glorifying crime, but the whole bleak situation of the whole thing, the poverty, the police brutality, etc etc... it got called gangsta rap by the media. so it's kinda unfair to turn gangsta rap into this BAD strawman genre.

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*** Only Dre is responsible; he personally made Tupac, Jay-Z, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, and so much more. The East Coast (Puffy, Biggie, Wu Tang, etc.) and Dirty South (TI, Lil Wayne, Nelly, etc.) turned gangsta only because Dre had made it so marketable; gangsta could be defined as the imitation of Dre. He's pretty much the ultimate rapper, and also produced a huge quantity and variety of hip-hop; but on his own albums, he prefers to glorify crime and weed, and his two favorite words begin with N and B. I have no doubt that gangsta's current creakiness is a sign that Dre is getting old.** old.
***
Except Dre didn't "create" 2pac and Jay-Z. And the south already had gangsta rappers with artists like Gangsta NIP, UGK, and the geto boys. loooong before rappers like T.I. Lil Wayne and Nelly showed up. and since when was Nelly a gangsta rapper?!?!? Also gangsta rap did NOT only talk about glorifying crime, but the whole bleak situation of the whole thing, the poverty, the police brutality, etc etc... it got called gangsta rap by the media. so it's kinda unfair to turn gangsta rap into this BAD strawman genre.
10th Sep '14 12:18:47 PM Metalhead14
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* Why do rap fans get looked down upon?
4th Sep '14 5:24:52 AM SeptimusHeap
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*** That's the well-thought out and legitimate reason given by rational listeners. Not the [[HateDumb people]] [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch described]] by the above troper, I'm willing to bet.

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*** That's the well-thought out and legitimate reason given by rational listeners. Not the [[HateDumb people]] [[ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch people described]] by the above troper, I'm willing to bet.
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