History Headscratchers / OnceUponATime

23rd May '16 2:06:25 PM LurpCrawn
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** Now (post-S5), we have seen three lands, Arendelle explicitly, and Camelot and DunBroch implied, that are in the same realm as the Enchanted Forest (meaning you can travel there without a portal) yet were untouched by the first curse. Rather than expecting Cora's bubble to have covered all of these lands, it is more likely that the curse only covered the Enchanted Forest and left these other lands alone. This can also explain why Phillip knew they had been frozen in time for 28 years. Time certainly passed, but knowing the exact amount of time probably meant someone outside the curse (in Camelot perhaps?) told them how much time had passed. It is not inconceivable that China and Agrabah were also outside the curse. As to why they aren't moving to populated, functioning nations, perhaps the Ogres have cut off all means of escape? Sure, a small band of dedicated warriors can get through, but a mass exodus would likely risk too many lives.
2nd May '16 6:12:01 PM cillianflood
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** Also, she might not be aware that confronting Cora is still possible prior to Cora approaching her. All she knows is that she was down here and that Hades dealt with her.
26th Apr '16 8:52:26 AM DavidK93
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** WordOfGod says the weapon was never intended to be a taser, and the producers later regretted that it resembled one so much, as it led to viewers raising this issue.
24th Apr '16 6:19:18 PM fearlessnikki
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Cora was not tossed into the fire pit yet. She is technically still communicable. Zelena could solve her lifelong abandonment issues right there in the underworld.

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* Cora was not tossed into the fire pit yet. She is technically still communicable. Zelena could solve her lifelong abandonment issues right there in the underworld.underworld.
** Well it's very hard to get rid of a lifetime of resentment. Zelena's entire resentment was directed at Regina, of whom she was jealous because she saw her getting the things she wanted. Zelena has a habit of misplacing where her anger should be. When Rumple refuses to make her his student, she again gets mad at Regina for being chosen. Zelena's main flaw is that she's jealous of what she doesn't have - not what's been done to her. Zelena has spent her entire life being mad at Regina for apparently getting the things she wished for. She's mad at Regina but not at Cora - because she wants to be worthy of her. Zelena craves her approval because that's something she never got.
** Her reasoning is that Cora gave her up, but chose to keep Regina. So the subconscious mind is thinking that she is wrong in Cora's view, while Regina is right - so how does she become right? It's not uncommon for abuse and neglect victims to still crave their abuser's approval and affection. Zelena's not angry because she was abandoned; she's angry because her sister got more than her.
21st Apr '16 2:43:58 PM cooltoonist
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Cora was not tossed into the fire pit yet. She is technically still communicable. Zelena could solve her lifelong abandonment issues right there in the underworld.

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Cora was not tossed into the fire pit yet. She is technically still communicable. Zelena could solve her lifelong abandonment issues right there in the underworld.underworld.
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21st Apr '16 2:43:34 PM cooltoonist
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[[/folder]]

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[[folder: Why doesn't Zelena confront her mother Cora?]]
Cora was not tossed into the fire pit yet. She is technically still communicable. Zelena could solve her lifelong abandonment issues right there in the underworld.
20th Apr '16 12:29:06 PM Discar
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WHY? Perhaps it's just that I don't remember the episode where Cruella dies correctly, but as I recall, she was threatening Henry's life when Emma killed her. In real life, in a life or death situation, the police are not going to wait to see whether or not you really intend to kill someone before they stop you from what you've threatened to do. I'm sure the in-universe claim was that Cruella couldn't kill anyone so it was wrong of Emma to kill her, but at the point in the story where Cruella is killed Emma has no way of knowing this. All she knows is that this woman is threatening to kill her son. So I don't understand all the issues in-story about Emma "going dark" for having killed Cruella. Was it wrong of Emma? Yeah, maybe. But again, in split second decision making when you know someone has made a threat against another person's life, there's not time to determine whether or not the person making the threats is lying.

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* WHY? Perhaps it's just that I don't remember the episode where Cruella dies correctly, but as I recall, she was threatening Henry's life when Emma killed her. In real life, in a life or death situation, the police are not going to wait to see whether or not you really intend to kill someone before they stop you from what you've threatened to do. I'm sure the in-universe claim was that Cruella couldn't kill anyone so it was wrong of Emma to kill her, but at the point in the story where Cruella is killed Emma has no way of knowing this. All she knows is that this woman is threatening to kill her son. So I don't understand all the issues in-story about Emma "going dark" for having killed Cruella. Was it wrong of Emma? Yeah, maybe. But again, in split second decision making when you know someone has made a threat against another person's life, there's not time to determine whether or not the person making the threats is lying.



*** OP Here: Thank you. That explanation helps. I wish the show would stop harping on it, but I get it now.

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*** ** OP Here: Thank you. That explanation helps. I wish the show would stop harping on it, but I get it now.



In season 1 and 2 whenever someone like Regina or Hook tried to use Belle to hurt Rumple or as some ace against him in the future it was called out for being immoral and wrong to Belle. Even Emma looked like she disapproved of Hook for shooting Belle to hurt Gold in season 2 and she wasn't even a big fan of Gold even back then. Season 4-5 we have had Hook, Regina, and now Emma use Belle as leverage to get Gold to do what they want or hurt him. No one has pointed out how what they did was wrong at all. Hook and Emma both seemingly fine with keeping Belle in the dark about her husband lying and or using her to get what they want. The first time Hook did this it was to help Elsa, but the second time it was to get his hand back (personal gain and keeping important information that could have potentially helped Emma find Anna). Emma's reasoning is understandable given her grief over losing Hook, but neither her parents nor Henry bring up how wrong it is to keep Belle in the dark just to get what she wants is still wrong. In Regina's case she took Belle's heart without permission (kept it from the other characters), yet when they find out no one calls Regina out. Now this the same show that pointed out Emma breaking Henry's heart to find Merlin was still wrong regardless of the reasoning. Why does it seem like Belle's feelings and well being are being ignored just to get at Rumple?
* Possibility 1: It hasn't (at least regarding the most recent arc) been depicted as right. Emma's entire crusade to go and rescue Hook, someone legitimately dead, is not meant to be considered right. That certainly seems to be what it looked like at the end of 5A but we'll have to wait and see how it all wraps up to see where the show really stands. The most recent episode has kind of flip flopped on the idea. Possibility 2: Everyone, in universe and out of universe, has kind of just gotten used to the idea...Not really righteous but if you're exposed to something enough it's bound to normalize you to it. In the earlier seasons Gold was also on his pathway to redemption while in current seasons he's walking the path of anti-redemption so I guess there's an element of it's okay because he's trying to be a bad guy when before it was wrong because he's trying to be a good guy. Personally I'm hoping Emma tells Belle about Gold's new Dark One status regardless of how things turn out but I predect she'll probably be magiced down to hell and find out that way before the season is out.

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* In season 1 and 2 whenever someone like Regina or Hook tried to use Belle to hurt Rumple or as some ace against him in the future it was called out for being immoral and wrong to Belle. Even Emma looked like she disapproved of Hook for shooting Belle to hurt Gold in season 2 and she wasn't even a big fan of Gold even back then. Season 4-5 we have had Hook, Regina, and now Emma use Belle as leverage to get Gold to do what they want or hurt him. No one has pointed out how what they did was wrong at all. Hook and Emma both seemingly fine with keeping Belle in the dark about her husband lying and or using her to get what they want. The first time Hook did this it was to help Elsa, but the second time it was to get his hand back (personal gain and keeping important information that could have potentially helped Emma find Anna). Emma's reasoning is understandable given her grief over losing Hook, but neither her parents nor Henry bring up how wrong it is to keep Belle in the dark just to get what she wants is still wrong. In Regina's case she took Belle's heart without permission (kept it from the other characters), yet when they find out no one calls Regina out. Now this the same show that pointed out Emma breaking Henry's heart to find Merlin was still wrong regardless of the reasoning. Why does it seem like Belle's feelings and well being are being ignored just to get at Rumple?
* ** Possibility 1: It hasn't (at least regarding the most recent arc) been depicted as right. Emma's entire crusade to go and rescue Hook, someone legitimately dead, is not meant to be considered right. That certainly seems to be what it looked like at the end of 5A but we'll have to wait and see how it all wraps up to see where the show really stands. The most recent episode has kind of flip flopped on the idea. Possibility 2: Everyone, in universe and out of universe, has kind of just gotten used to the idea...Not really righteous but if you're exposed to something enough it's bound to normalize you to it. In the earlier seasons Gold was also on his pathway to redemption while in current seasons he's walking the path of anti-redemption so I guess there's an element of it's okay because he's trying to be a bad guy when before it was wrong because he's trying to be a good guy. Personally I'm hoping Emma tells Belle about Gold's new Dark One status regardless of how things turn out but I predect she'll probably be magiced down to hell and find out that way before the season is out.



So what exactly did Henry decide at the end of "The Brothers Jones"? I'm still a bit confused as to what his role as an Author is.
* He's going to rewrite Hades'' story that was ripped out. I guess this means he'll either be able to divine Hades weakness by writing what happened even though he wasn't there, or he's using the power of the author to retoractively changes Hades past and give him a weakness. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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* So what exactly did Henry decide at the end of "The Brothers Jones"? I'm still a bit confused as to what his role as an Author is.
* ** He's going to rewrite Hades'' Hades' story that was ripped out. I guess this means he'll either be able to divine Hades weakness by writing what happened even though he wasn't there, or he's using the power of the author to retoractively changes retroactively change Hades past and give him a weakness. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.



Why do Belle and Zelena assume Hades has the power to speed up pregnancy? He's outright said several times that nothing grows in the Underworld, only decays. If he can't make anything grow, how could he possibly send Belle's pregnancy into turbo mode? In fact, since nothing's supposed to grow down there, wouldn't that mean Belle's pregnancy is already paused and her sleeping curse was totally unnecessary?
* Perhaps they are assuming that since the Dark One can control the aging process that Hades as a god can also perform the same type of magic. Belle wasn't in her right state of mind. She freaking out over having sending Gaston to a fate worse than death, has lost faith in her husband after one too many lies and betrayal, and afraid Hades wants to take her baby away. She panicked and tried to do what she thinks will save her baby. In a way it is similar to how Rumple went overboard in protecting Baelfire after he became the Dark One. Out of universe reasoning is probably because Belle's actress was due to have her baby soon, so the writers needed a way to write her out of the story to accommodate her.

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* Why do Belle and Zelena assume Hades has the power to speed up pregnancy? He's outright said several times that nothing grows in the Underworld, only decays. If he can't make anything grow, how could he possibly send Belle's pregnancy into turbo mode? In fact, since nothing's supposed to grow down there, wouldn't that mean Belle's pregnancy is already paused and her sleeping curse was totally unnecessary?
* ** Perhaps they are assuming that since the Dark One can control the aging process that Hades as a god can also perform the same type of magic. Belle wasn't in her right state of mind. She freaking out over having sending Gaston to a fate worse than death, has lost faith in her husband after one too many lies and betrayal, and afraid Hades wants to take her baby away. She panicked and tried to do what she thinks will save her baby. In a way it is similar to how Rumple went overboard in protecting Baelfire after he became the Dark One. Out of universe reasoning is probably because Belle's actress was due to have her baby soon, so the writers needed a way to write her out of the story to accommodate her.
18th Apr '16 9:37:28 PM Ion89
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* Perhaps they are assuming that since the Dark One can control the aging process that Hades as a god can also perform the same type of magic. Belle wasn't in her right state of mind. She freaking out over having sending Gaston to a fate worse than death, has lost faith in her husband after one too many lies and betrayal, and afraid Hades wants to take her baby away. She panicked and tried to do what she thinks will save her baby. In a way it is similar to how Rumple went overboard in protecting Baelfire after he became the Dark One. Out of universe reasoning is probably because Belle's actress was due to have her baby soon, so the writers needed a way to write her out of the story to accommodate her.
18th Apr '16 6:50:10 PM CelestialEmpress
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[[/folder]]

[[folder: Hades' Power over Belle?]]
Why do Belle and Zelena assume Hades has the power to speed up pregnancy? He's outright said several times that nothing grows in the Underworld, only decays. If he can't make anything grow, how could he possibly send Belle's pregnancy into turbo mode? In fact, since nothing's supposed to grow down there, wouldn't that mean Belle's pregnancy is already paused and her sleeping curse was totally unnecessary?
18th Apr '16 12:51:56 PM cillianflood
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** It's possible he simply wasn't aware of that fact. No one else noticed so maybe the same was true for him. The curse does seem to affect him (and Emma) in some way, specifically leaving town. He states he was able to do it to get Emma but is certain he couldn't have left completely.
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